I’m running a terrormancer build the sometimes wins fight vs theives and sometimes i get spiked down. Not sure if what I’m doing is base on chance I’m dying really fast, and i’m not even a power lich. Granted I’m more of a rotation thinker, that plays defense for the team.
Id say your biggest problem is that you allow the thief to set up on you. Ill explain: there were a number of times in the video where the thief stealthed, and you remained completely still, waiting for them to make their move so you could react to it. This is either where you lost the fight, or made it much more difficult for yourself by allowing them to get in some backstabs on you without even having to try for it. When I pvp, and Im clearly about to 1v1 a thief and they stealth, I frantically thrash my camera in random directions so that they cannot predict where my back will be facing (lets be honest Im panicking). But there were another of other times where mid-fight, you were standing still while laying down your marks, which really just makes you a sitting duck for whoever youre fighting.
That’s a good idea actually. I did feel that I should have done more than just put down marks, When I did fine it slightly annoying fighting moving targets for melee. I guess I’ll work on marking while moving so avoid some hits. Thanks.
First of all, I’ve seen one of your videos before, I really like the split screen setup.
On topic, this is clearly an l2p issue. You have to improve in two ways:
1. Your reaction time on your necro is slow and you sometimes don’t use the right skills at the right moment.
2. Your signature says you’re multi class but sometimes I get the feeling that you’re not anticipating certain moves that your opponents are inevitable going to make.
As far as I remember you’re playing on EU? If so, I’d like to offer you my help in game.
1. Kite, kite, kite, kite, kite. You’re almost entirely motionless. Thieves will feast on you because you make it so easy to land a backstab.
2. Don’t lay marks at your feet except for Mark of blood. Don’t lay Reapers Mark down like you did – that’s an important cc, use it to seal a kill. It’s useless to just fear them away from the point for another second. Anyone with half a brain will dodge roll through it anyway.
3. You have too much of a rotation. WoP, signet of spite, corrupt boon, then marks – that happened more than once. A decent thief will dodge one or both of those utilities with evades or stealth. Save them for when you’re sure they will land – plus corrupt boon doesn’t do a whole lot against most thieves. You’re better off being aggressive with scepter or death shroud there.
A fight with a truly good thief is probably in favor of the thief. Equal skill: it will come down to who can land their bigger skills, and who can interrupt, etc. after they steal, be ready to dodge the skull fear, and otherwise try not to let them go into stealth using black powder and heart seeker – a lot of thieves remove conditions in stealth, so this is not only interrupting their rotations but an offensive move for you too. If they decide to pressure with shortbow, try to counter by using scepter since it has the same range.
Against that thief before 6:25 you still had your fear on the staff. Put also 3 on the ground and 4 right after to create weakness by blast finisher on that poison field. Maybe change off hand for a dagger but cripple and daze are good as well. Though dagger helps you more with condition removal and as terromancer you go for conditions so if its condi thief or gives you blind or anything you can give it right back. Plus weakness on 5 on dagger. Or leave horn as off hand and try spectral armor to get more life force. Works well for me to get back into Death Shroud sooner with more life force. And good stun breaker.
Also I’ve read a good rule. Never put marks just on the grounds. They can roll and avoid it. Unless you have unavoidable trait. But still I think its better to put them on someone instead on the ground. Maybe the 2 I put down to know if thief is around.
Yeah but if they roll through a mark they’ve just announced to you they’re nearby so you can save the harder hitting marks.
The whole point of putting mark of bllod and even chiiblains is to show you when the thief is entering the zones.
Now, the thief WILL get 2 guaranteed ways to backstab unless you pre-cast reaper’s mark: he will steal teleport the backstab, or he will shadowshot precast into a backstab so when shadoshot hits you he teleports midbackstab and it connects. He may also use infiltrator’s signet.
He’ll also have shadow refuge for another longstealth backstab.
And this is just the D/P scenario, which is the better scenario for the necro. A S/D thief will simply wear the necro out.
You need to play very offensive against thief, use flesh golem that knockdown can land you a kill.
Against a similar skilled sword dagger thief you will lose almost 100% of your fights because of the evade spams. Against any other thief, laying reaper’s mark (at the right time) at your feet actually works incredibly well because they always teleport to you with infiltrator’s signet or steal – this negates their burst and puts you on the offensive.
Highly skilled sword dagger thieves simply use flanking strike with steal or infiltrators signet to initiate their burst and dodge your marks at the same time.
Small tip: against D/P teefs, use DOOM at the end of a pistol 5 > heartseeker to make them waste lots of initiative, time, and time/duration of the smoke field. It really interrupts their control and can sway the fight in yo favor
…other then that just sacrifice your soul and prepare to lose.
If you can get death shroud 5 channelling on them wait a little bit then use doom to secure the immobilize. If you can figure out a way to work spectral grasp or warhorn into your build those are also good for countering thieves. IMHO dealing with thieves and just playing necromancer in general takes a lot of practice.
I am running a power build so i know its a bit different but one thing that i found worked for me is adding Well of Darkness to my build. Not sure if you are willing to drop a skill for this one but i have found it useful countering thieves. I also have Chilling Darkness in my build so it adds a bit more to the well.
You just drop it at your feet when you feel the thief attack is coming. If he jumps in it his first attack will miss (probly backstab) giving you time to respond. If he stays in the well and continues his attack… you are golden.
so what do you do against a thief who just keep interrupting you? every time i come up against a good thief they just interrupt me do 7k damage while i cant do squat then stealth try to bs me wait till i start to cast………… anything really……….. then its yay another free 7k damage and so on and so forth…
so what do you do against a thief who just keendp interrupting you? every time i come up against a good thief they just interrupt me do 7k damage while i cant do squat then stealth try to bs me wait till i start to cast………… anything really……….. then its yay another free 7k damage and so on and so forth…
cant even get a staff mark off
D/P spamming #3 and Headshot runs out of resource really fast and it usually occurs when they’re sure going for a kill, mostly in outnumbered/necro focus situations. Instead of running away, turn very aggressive. Corrupt Boon, Fear, everything you have. It will push them out of their comfort zone 100% and you’re likely to land a kill or at least get room to breathe.
You can’t beat good thieves. They have a lot better mobility and dps so you just accept you are dead already. If you do a bit damage to them they just run away.
I play power well team build. i can’t 1v1 good thief. im not being able to even do damage to “skilled” thieves that cc, interrupt me to death. So both their mobility, high dps and cc kills me. Only thing i have vs thieves is damage with slow casting times and some cc with casting times. ( you can’t use casting time dps vs skilled thieves anyway. they avoid too easily all of your casting time. ) Feels annoying because its thief team play build and also way too powerful 1v1. i don’t think it’s acceptable i have to die no matter what i do if a thief attacks me -.- Maybe i need something like a team play 1v1 hybrid power build. Anyone have idea for best power build to have better chance vs thieves?
You can’t beat good thieves. They have a lot better mobility and dps so you just accept you are dead already. If you do a bit damage to them they just run away.
That’s a very pessimistic attitude, and definitely not true.
Depending on the thief’s build you have to deal with them differently.
But generally there’s a recipe for fighting all of them:
Let them hit you when you’re in DS and don’t let them hit you when you’re not. That means, if you anticipate high damage soak it up with life force. Use your DS skills to combo bursts as part of your counter pressure when you’re leaving DS to put them on the defensive. If you manage that you will buy yourself some breathing room for when DS is on cooldown. Now is the time to dodge, stun, blind them, hide behind Spec Wall or Well of Darkness or whatever skills you’re using, and most importantly: generate life force so you can repeat this defensive pattern.
Killing them in the process is now just a matter of hitting a moment when they expose an opening that makes them overextend before they know it. This is more difficult against S/D perma evaders, almost up to the point where it’s pure luck if you can hit that crucial stun at the right moment. But generally it’s doable.
And keep in mind, if we’re talking about a 1v1 in sPvP they’re actually the ones pressed for time. They can’t stay on the point when you’re there. So patience and attrition, which would usually be in favour of the thief if it was an off point fight or a duel in WvW, is now working against them. They have to play more risky and aggressive which means that a duel against a thief is really the necro’s fight to lose.
You can’t beat good thieves. They have a lot better mobility and dps so you just accept you are dead already. If you do a bit damage to them they just run away.
That’s a very pessimistic attitude, and definitely not true.
Depending on the thief’s build you have to deal with them differently.
But generally there’s a recipe for fighting all of them:
Let them hit you when you’re in DS and don’t let them hit you when you’re not. That means, if you anticipate high damage soak it up with life force. Use your DS skills to combo bursts as part of your counter pressure when you’re leaving DS to put them on the defensive. If you manage that you will buy yourself some breathing room for when DS is on cooldown. Now is the time to dodge, stun, blind them, hide behind Spec Wall or Well of Darkness or whatever skills you’re using, and most importantly: generate life force so you can repeat this defensive pattern.
Killing them in the process is now just a matter of hitting a moment when they expose an opening that makes them overextend before they know it. This is more difficult against S/D perma evaders, almost up to the point where it’s pure luck if you can hit that crucial stun at the right moment. But generally it’s doable.
And keep in mind, if we’re talking about a 1v1 in sPvP they’re actually the ones pressed for time. They can’t stay on the point when you’re there. So patience and attrition, which would usually be in favour of the thief if it was an off point fight or a duel in WvW, is now working against them. They have to play more risky and aggressive which means that a duel against a thief is really the necro’s fight to lose.
I’d like to see that in practice vs good thief. it’s easier to say than done.
As i said i run power double wells ( WoS, WoC ) tpvp build. and not able to cast vs high tier thieves im talking about. Life Blast 1 sec casting time Life Transfer getting interrupted asap or avoided with thief tricks all the time. i kill bad thieves in 3-4 sec as i able to use my skills. they don’t cc me all the time and don’t avoid my damage. yes i can go to DS to cast an instant fear so i have 1sec breathing room before they are again on me and cc skill cast. I don’t have blind ( even more slow necro not good for conquest ) i use warhorn. i have daze and swiftness.
I think equal skill thief vs condi necro is about 60/40 in favor of the Thief. I think it’s a relatively balanced matchup though. In terms of the OP, you’re not that good dude. I know you run around saying you won the leaderboard or whatever but mechanically you’re pretty weak.
Best Multiclass NA. RIP my beautiful Necromancer, such a shame. Retired, April 2015. GG Anet,
I’m not coming back, not that you care.
My strategy against thief is to catch them as soon as they come out of stealth. I play power necro 60206, and I’m aware of my burst capabilities. Thief comes out of stealth → dark pact → well of suffering. If they port out using shadowstep, no big deal, you just made them use one of their best skills. In case they don’t, I go into DS, fear them and then start pounding them down. I generally save my DS 4 for when they go into stealth, so I can keep great pressure on them at all times.
My strategy against thief is to catch them as soon as they come out of stealth. I play power necro 60206, and I’m aware of my burst capabilities. Thief comes out of stealth -> dark pact -> well of suffering. If they port out using shadowstep, no big deal, you just made them use one of their best skills. In case they don’t, I go into DS, fear them and then start pounding them down. I generally save my DS 4 for when they go into stealth, so I can keep great pressure on them at all times.
My strategy against thief is to catch them as soon as they come out of stealth. I play power necro 60206, and I’m aware of my burst capabilities. Thief comes out of stealth -> dark pact -> well of suffering. If they port out using shadowstep, no big deal, you just made them use one of their best skills. In case they don’t, I go into DS, fear them and then start pounding them down. I generally save my DS 4 for when they go into stealth, so I can keep great pressure on them at all times.
I’m not sure but tainted shackles may work too. At least the last pulse with immobilize does. Also just in case, if you start a channeled attack (dagger 2 is great for this) before they stealth, it will also keep hitting them even if they stealth after the channel begins. Dagger 2 excels for this because if the heals suddenly stop, you know that the thief is out of range as well.
I dont suppose you also get a trail of whatever it is youre siphoning (seriously what is that stuff?) from you to their location?
I don’t believe so. But, if you’re using sigil of Fire and it procs while they are in stealth, it will show their exact location at that time. Super useful for hitting them in shadow refuge especially.
Well facing good thiefs can be hard and still if u are able to put out enough presure he can run out and reset. As a condi necro i love to face thiefs becouse its a rloly good practice with timing your skills especialy vs s/d thief.
Ok now few words about your playstyle. Man u so so so pasive. U have to move more , kite more and man start dodging it helps a lot. I am not trying to be salty or anything but u have a lot of room that u can improve . As a necro dont try to hold to those points becouse u are not meant to do that , if lets see 2 ppl push u and your team wont react in time ( witch is pretty common with soloq ppl) u will die in few sec Anyway. Moving solo on map its your worst nightmare feel free to pm for some tips or visit my twitch channel.
One more thing , remember that most important is to win the fight , dont stick to the point so much , kite more , even if the enemy will get decap that rly doesnt mattertill u win the 1v1.
It’s also kinda hilarious the thie’f steal gives him a better fear than what you have as a necromancer.
I think a pre-nerf minion mancer build with axe stood a good chance, a single flesh golem landing his charge could finish the fight for you.
But the issue is a smart thief will just pelt you with shortbow while avoiding most of your attacks to force your heal and cooldowns and then switch to dagger for the burst.
It’s also kinda hilarious the thie’f steal gives him a better fear than what you have as a necromancer.
I think a pre-nerf minion mancer build with axe stood a good chance, a single flesh golem landing his charge could finish the fight for you.
But the issue is a smart thief will just pelt you with shortbow while avoiding most of your attacks to force your heal and cooldowns and then switch to dagger for the burst.
Stolen fear isn’t that great. It has a long cast time with an obvious animation and only works well in melee range. It’s a solid skill that a smart thief can make good plays with, but it doesn’t compare to doom across the board.
It’s also kinda hilarious the thie’f steal gives him a better fear than what you have as a necromancer.
I think a pre-nerf minion mancer build with axe stood a good chance, a single flesh golem landing his charge could finish the fight for you.
But the issue is a smart thief will just pelt you with shortbow while avoiding most of your attacks to force your heal and cooldowns and then switch to dagger for the burst.
Stolen fear isn’t that great. It has a long cast time with an obvious animation and only works well in melee range. It’s a solid skill that a smart thief can make good plays with, but it doesn’t compare to doom across the board.
It’s also AoE. Unlike Doom. The cast time doesn’t matter when you can time it with a shadow step just like mediguards time their delayed detonation on zealot’s shield.
Granted it could be worse for the necro, at least with necros thieves don’t get Consume Plasma.
So if they blow a super important cooldown they can cast it from farther? Or if they put themselves if a rough situation (near melee range with multiple opponents) it can be better? Still not that great.
So if they blow a super important cooldown they can cast it from farther? Or if they put themselves if a rough situation (near melee range with multiple opponents) it can be better? Still not that great.
That super important cooldown will be used for something else like backstab anyways, an aoe fear is a game changer I don’t buy you trivializing it.
You’re acting like melee range is some death zone, yet most thief builds are melee based and thrive just as well. S/D thief is one of the most survivable melee builds in the game.
You are literally comparing 2 skills to 1. Again, skull fear isn’t so great that people can complain about it being better than every fear Necros have. It’s situationally good, unlike doom which is an incredible skill.
At least complain about fear me, which is instant cast and AOE.
You are literally comparing 2 skills to 1. Again, skull fear isn’t so great that people can complain about it being better than every fear Necros have. It’s situationally good, unlike doom which is an incredible skill.
At least complain about fear me, which is instant cast and AOE.
Fear Me is another silly skill, but it costs a utility slot unlike steal which comes for free. Similarly the use of Doom involves popping death shroud, your defensive mechanic, when you may not need to put death shroud on cd just to use a CC. You’re still comboing. In order to use a CC you just opened yourself to spike since they know you just used DS for a fear either to interrupt or displace/terror damage chain and you got 7-10 seconds of no access to death shroud for defensive purposes.
Steal is a ridiculously good mechanic relative to other classes in pvp. And it isn’t more obvious when used against mesmers to give you every boon for 10 seconds.
