Guild Wars 2

Greetings

I want to start this thread by saying that I am playing necro since beta weekend 1 and it has been my main class since then, well more like the only class that I have played part from gathering nodes on some lvl 80 boosted alts, so I guess that’s enough to say that I love necro.

That being said … you guys managed to make necros a joke, that’s what we are, to the PVE at least, when you say you want to play necro, be it in open world, fractals, raids or dungeon you get laughs and jokes to a point where its so bad that you get told to change spec on a map like VB because you are not good enough..

Now, this is not gonna be the type of post where I will say we are useless cause i don’t believe that even tho what we provide its mediocre compared to other classes, we don’t buff well, we don’t support well, we don’t dps well.

One would imagine if you can’t be support you can be a buffer, or if you can’t be any of these and you are a selfish class you should at least be up there in terms of damage, but no, we had one “good” thing since Guild Wars 2 launched 4 years ago and that was Viper Necro.

I say “good” because that’s what it was “good”, it relied on the long cooldown of Lich Form that was only very viable in a raid setup with proper buffs and heals on the minions and in order to be up there with everyone, you needed Epidemic but you also needed another necro cause why would you be able to do decent damage by your own.

I was listening today to WoodenPotatoes on his stream and he is kind of the reason why I wrote this post, because he was also talking about how bad necro is and most likely how the reaper will bite the remaining dust even more IF and only IF you manage to give us a new decent elite spec or manage to balance this class to a point where we can do one thing as good as the other classes.

I am sick and tired of people laughing every time I say I want to play necro, I know you can bring a necro in a raid but good luck getting a spot in a pug raid.

Would be nice for a change to not have to use a gimmick to be decent at doing some damage and to not be laughed at by the entire community.

Thanks,

If you watch a video youre already a toxic elitist, yet alone if you can describe how a raid comp should look.

Anet balances for the bottom 5000% ,there necro is stronk.

MrMouser.6583:

One would imagine if you can’t be support you can be a buffer, or if you can’t be any of these and you are a selfish class you should at least be up there in terms of damage, but no, we had one “good” thing since Guild Wars 2 launched 4 years ago and that was Viper Necro.

Thanks,

All I can say is this, and i’ve been saying it since beta, if players have to rely on other players to keep them alive or to buff them so they have dps then they are not good players and totally missed the point of anet removing the trinity. The bad players cried and cried for the trinity cuz they well are bad and have no clue how to sustain themselves. Learning the game one could actually learn this.
In WvW the original roamers knew how to do this and could take on multiple enemy at once and win. Those roamers have since quit due to this current kitten meta. I take on multiple enemies and win all the time on my reaper but I have a deep understanding of how anet builds the necro in gw1 and gw2 and I know how to self sustain without sacrificing too much dps. Its not hard to do just takes time to learn which 99% of gw2 players dont want to do which is why we are stuck in the current spam condis to win meta without knowing what youre doing.

He don’t say that the necromancer is bad, but that the necromancer isn’t the best in any kind of thing and that there’s a large amount of more viable and efficent classes for all the different game area (sPvP-WvW-Dungeon-Fractal-Raid).
A necromancer can win against different players in wvw (still depending on the skill level of enemies you find), but other classes can do way better. In wvw we’re not asked for roaming, we’re only asked to be mindless glass cannons into the zerg. To roam there’s better classes, with mobility skills, stealth, huge burst damage and more.
In dungeon, fractal, raid, we was only good because of our elite, that now get nerfed and let us able to do goof things only with epidemic, just because let us play with other classes conditions (the necro is a mediocre/good condition dps class if compared to others, not the best for shure).
Our dps is lower than a lot of other classes, we don’t help to stack might and with a full stack we still inflict lesser damage than the other classes, that is basicly the only thing that you need in a dungeon (unless for few exeptions at high levels of fractal), inflict high damage and spam might. We spam vulnerability, but there’s also a lot of other classes that can do that, making us unnecessary in that point of wiew. We corrupt boons but outside of the raids theres no reason to do that and also other classes can strip away boons easy.

The necromancer is good, but nothing more. If you do a dungeon you don’t want good damage, you want High damage.
The necromancer can’t be a high dps or a good supporter, the only two things you need in this game if you talk about PvE.

In sPvP, we’re the favorite prey of more or less every other class, we can counter only engineers, that can still kill us if they are good in timing they’re CC. We can only corrupt boons and then enter in shroud, fall in the middle of the fight, spam two skills and hope to inflict enough damage to make a sense of our action, that frequently is useless if the enemy have an ele that remove conditions all the time or just active a condi clean, removing our poison-bleed stacks. Also, our best dps combo take 4 seconds to fully land, seconds while the enemy can just run away from our range and make our attack totally miss. Or just CC us corrupting fear if there’s another necro, making us waste our only dps skills. That’s because the necro totally lack of good defensive skills. No block, no invul, no stealth, no movement skills, that all make us so easy to kill that for some classes fight us or the training golem is the same thing.
Frequently we’re useless, expecially in the new no-team queue system. We’re unable to do 1v1, unable to hold a point and unable to support the team, we can only debuff the enemy.
Someone say that the necro do his best while supported by a ele or a ranger, but the necro is the worst class ever to be supported, just because while in shroud we can’t be healed, making our ally waste his skills for us and obtaining no effects.

Actually the necromancer is in a “good” state, as ANet told us time ago. That’s the problem. That “good” state make us unable to be high dps, good supporter or a real dangerous enemy in pvp (unless few exeptions).

We can only hope in a future elite specializzation that bring us a real way to dps, support or survive, granting us a way to shine somewhere, for once.

Silv.9207:

Someone say that the necro do his best while supported by a ele or a ranger, but the necro is the worst class ever to be supported, just because while in shroud we can’t be healed, making our ally waste his skills for us and obtaining no effects.

Necro definitely shines when supported. Your idea that shroud makes it bad to be supported is only true in lower tiers of sPvP. Good supports won’t waste cds when you’re in shroud simple as that.

A necro who is allowed to cast its abilities without pressure is possibly the most dangerous situation in any of the pvp modes if you compare it to every other class. Necro has the best kit for downstate cleave onto people rezzing and imo can swing team fights dramatically if played well.

I agree with your point, and it was basically what I wanted to say with this post, saying we are in a good state its like celebrating mediocrity, its like celebrating you coming 2nd place in a competition between 2 teams.

All I hope is that we will get to at least be great at something, do a thing better than others or at least as good as the best alternative and i don’t wan’t to wait for a new elite spec to fix that because I don’t think that trowing reaper in a box to be forgotten is a good idea, I love the greatsword, the shroud and from the so called rumors I ain’t very exited about our supposed to be new weapon.

He don’t say that the necromancer is bad, but that the necromancer isn’t the best in any kind of thing and that there’s a large amount of more viable and efficent classes for all the different game area (sPvP-WvW-Dungeon-Fractal-Raid).
A necromancer can win against different players in wvw (still depending on the skill level of enemies you find), but other classes can do way better. In wvw we’re not asked for roaming, we’re only asked to be mindless glass cannons into the zerg. To roam there’s better classes, with mobility skills, stealth, huge burst damage and more.
In dungeon, fractal, raid, we was only good because of our elite, that now get nerfed and let us able to do goof things only with epidemic, just because let us play with other classes conditions (the necro is a mediocre/good condition dps class if compared to others, not the best for shure).
Our dps is lower than a lot of other classes, we don’t help to stack might and with a full stack we still inflict lesser damage than the other classes, that is basicly the only thing that you need in a dungeon (unless for few exeptions at high levels of fractal), inflict high damage and spam might. We spam vulnerability, but there’s also a lot of other classes that can do that, making us unnecessary in that point of wiew. We corrupt boons but outside of the raids theres no reason to do that and also other classes can strip away boons easy.

The necromancer is good, but nothing more. If you do a dungeon you don’t want good damage, you want High damage.
The necromancer can’t be a high dps or a good supporter, the only two things you need in this game if you talk about PvE.

In sPvP, we’re the favorite prey of more or less every other class, we can counter only engineers, that can still kill us if they are good in timing they’re CC. We can only corrupt boons and then enter in shroud, fall in the middle of the fight, spam two skills and hope to inflict enough damage to make a sense of our action, that frequently is useless if the enemy have an ele that remove conditions all the time or just active a condi clean, removing our poison-bleed stacks. Also, our best dps combo take 4 seconds to fully land, seconds while the enemy can just run away from our range and make our attack totally miss. Or just CC us corrupting fear if there’s another necro, making us waste our only dps skills. That’s because the necro totally lack of good defensive skills. No block, no invul, no stealth, no movement skills, that all make us so easy to kill that for some classes fight us or the training golem is the same thing.
Frequently we’re useless, expecially in the new no-team queue system. We’re unable to do 1v1, unable to hold a point and unable to support the team, we can only debuff the enemy.
Someone say that the necro do his best while supported by a ele or a ranger, but the necro is the worst class ever to be supported, just because while in shroud we can’t be healed, making our ally waste his skills for us and obtaining no effects.

Actually the necromancer is in a “good” state, as ANet told us time ago. That’s the problem. That “good” state make us unable to be high dps, good supporter or a real dangerous enemy in pvp (unless few exeptions).

We can only hope in a future elite specializzation that bring us a real way to dps, support or survive, granting us a way to shine somewhere, for once.

MrMouser.6583:

I agree with your point, and it was basically what I wanted to say with this post, saying we are in a good state its like celebrating mediocrity, its like celebrating you coming 2nd place in a competition between 2 teams.

All I hope is that we will get to at least be great at something, do a thing better than others or at least as good as the best alternative and i don’t wan’t to wait for a new elite spec to fix that because I don’t think that trowing reaper in a box to be forgotten is a good idea, I love the greatsword, the shroud and from the so called rumors I ain’t very exited about our supposed to be new weapon.

Necromancers already has more access to boon corruption than any other profession, as well as the highest natural healthpool (counting Deathshroud), and a lot of self-sustain. Reaper itself is supposed to be a bruiser spec, it makes sense that it isn’t high dps or super tanky.

I also don’t think that the Reaper is being thrown into a box and forgotten. I do however, have the feeling that you want the Reaper to be something that it isn’t designed to be.

Fatalyz.7168:

MrMouser.6583:

I agree with your point, and it was basically what I wanted to say with this post, saying we are in a good state its like celebrating mediocrity, its like celebrating you coming 2nd place in a competition between 2 teams.

All I hope is that we will get to at least be great at something, do a thing better than others or at least as good as the best alternative and i don’t wan’t to wait for a new elite spec to fix that because I don’t think that trowing reaper in a box to be forgotten is a good idea, I love the greatsword, the shroud and from the so called rumors I ain’t very exited about our supposed to be new weapon.

Necromancers already has more access to boon corruption than any other profession, as well as the highest natural healthpool (counting Deathshroud), and a lot of self-sustain. Reaper itself is supposed to be a bruiser spec, it makes sense that it isn’t high dps or super tanky.

I also don’t think that the Reaper is being thrown into a box and forgotten. I do however, have the feeling that you want the Reaper to be something that it isn’t designed to be.

So in general if “you” are educated enough “you” understand that the necros can be played in any type of content, I am a believer of that and from what you say you are too, but try going with that first statement on a raid LFG cause I don’t even dare say a serious raiding guild and see the reaction, how much that matters.

I know these people are superficial and meta’s in GW2 have the goal, most of the times of skipping content and mechanics but you have to deal with them if you want to do certain content.

And about the last thing you said, no, at this point i don’t care what it does as long as it means I can have an at least equal role as the other classes, I don’t care for best of something, i just care about having a place in every situation and not being mocked at for playing a necro.

The problem is that we’re designed to be nothing more than a boon corruption spam class. And in PvE that’s totally useless, just to make an example.

The necromancer is a class with high Hp pool that don’t inflict high damage, isn’t a tank, don’t support anyone (unless for really few skills/traits that no one use unless for plague signet), play for himself and is designet to be as it is for the eternity.

But a large amount of other classes obtained totally different things from this game. just look at the Guardian! Look at it! It’s designed to be the best defensive class and supporter and is ages that it’s one of the best dps class in sPvP and dungeon! not talking about the elite spec, that gave him all the things he needed to be a insanely strong dps class, totally breaking out of what he was designed for from the start of this game.
The mesmer obtained a Shield with a lot of defensive skills! The Mesmer!
Also the thief have a way to be unkillable, jumping all around and also inflicting good damage. The thief have a Block skill and we don’t!
The warrior was not meant to be strong against and with condition damage, now is the best class to fight condi classes and can spam a insane amount of conditions.
And I can continue for more or less every class in this game, exept for the Necromancer.

if a new elite come up and have better defense or damage than the reaper (expecially if have better defence) i will trow it forever.
Not because I don’t like it, just because he don’t grant us anything we already had from before. He granted some good skills, but he was made for direct damage and is used mainly for conditions, have a huge weapon that inflict few more damage than our dagger, expecially if you use the vampiric trait and the warhorn (sometimes the dagger/wh with vampiric inflict a better damage than the gs…), grant a new way to generate LF (blighters boon) that no one care about because the staff is way better and is always included in every build for that. The shroud work better with a lot of our traits and grant stability but is melee and that force us to go into the middle of the fight, where every other players can burst us down fast and easy, without granting us any decent defensive skill.
Basicly grant us something for everything and don’t hange our role, that is only to corrupt boons, nothing more.

I’d like to see the necromancer good to do something that make him stay alive in a fight, kill someone or help the team to survive more than debuffing the enemy.
Just a new role to play with a so beautiful class and to be the Best doing it.

MrMouser.6583:

Fatalyz.7168:

MrMouser.6583:

I agree with your point, and it was basically what I wanted to say with this post, saying we are in a good state its like celebrating mediocrity, its like celebrating you coming 2nd place in a competition between 2 teams.

All I hope is that we will get to at least be great at something, do a thing better than others or at least as good as the best alternative and i don’t wan’t to wait for a new elite spec to fix that because I don’t think that trowing reaper in a box to be forgotten is a good idea, I love the greatsword, the shroud and from the so called rumors I ain’t very exited about our supposed to be new weapon.

Necromancers already has more access to boon corruption than any other profession, as well as the highest natural healthpool (counting Deathshroud), and a lot of self-sustain. Reaper itself is supposed to be a bruiser spec, it makes sense that it isn’t high dps or super tanky.

I also don’t think that the Reaper is being thrown into a box and forgotten. I do however, have the feeling that you want the Reaper to be something that it isn’t designed to be.

So in general if “you” are educated enough “you” understand that the necros can be played in any type of content, I am a believer of that and from what you say you are too, but try going with that first statement on a raid LFG cause I don’t even dare say a serious raiding guild and see the reaction, how much that matters.

I know these people are superficial and meta’s in GW2 have the goal, most of the times of skipping content and mechanics but you have to deal with them if you want to do certain content.

And about the last thing you said, no, at this point i don’t care what it does as long as it means I can have an at least equal role as the other classes, I don’t care for best of something, i just care about having a place in every situation and not being mocked at for playing a necro.

Your first post you said that you wanted necro to be great at something, do something better than others, they already do. I covered those points. Whether you like what they excel at is irrelevant to the point you were making, if it was, you should have specified in your post.

You are now saying that you want it to be equal to all other roles, and don’t care for the best, this was in direct opposition of what you originally stated.

Necros are already desired in T4 fractals and have a place in some raid fights like Sloth and Matt, as well as also being useful on VG, Escort, and Trio.

I’m not sure what you want, when you specify one thing, then turn around and say the exact opposite.

Fatalyz.7168:

MrMouser.6583:

Fatalyz.7168:

MrMouser.6583:

I agree with your point, and it was basically what I wanted to say with this post, saying we are in a good state its like celebrating mediocrity, its like celebrating you coming 2nd place in a competition between 2 teams.

All I hope is that we will get to at least be great at something, do a thing better than others or at least as good as the best alternative and i don’t wan’t to wait for a new elite spec to fix that because I don’t think that trowing reaper in a box to be forgotten is a good idea, I love the greatsword, the shroud and from the so called rumors I ain’t very exited about our supposed to be new weapon.

Necromancers already has more access to boon corruption than any other profession, as well as the highest natural healthpool (counting Deathshroud), and a lot of self-sustain. Reaper itself is supposed to be a bruiser spec, it makes sense that it isn’t high dps or super tanky.

I also don’t think that the Reaper is being thrown into a box and forgotten. I do however, have the feeling that you want the Reaper to be something that it isn’t designed to be.

So in general if “you” are educated enough “you” understand that the necros can be played in any type of content, I am a believer of that and from what you say you are too, but try going with that first statement on a raid LFG cause I don’t even dare say a serious raiding guild and see the reaction, how much that matters.

I know these people are superficial and meta’s in GW2 have the goal, most of the times of skipping content and mechanics but you have to deal with them if you want to do certain content.

And about the last thing you said, no, at this point i don’t care what it does as long as it means I can have an at least equal role as the other classes, I don’t care for best of something, i just care about having a place in every situation and not being mocked at for playing a necro.

Your first post you said that you wanted necro to be great at something, do something better than others, they already do. I covered those points. Whether you like what they excel at is irrelevant to the point you were making, if it was, you should have specified in your post.

You are now saying that you want it to be equal to all other roles, and don’t care for the best, this was in direct opposition of what you originally stated.

Necros are already desired in T4 fractals and have a place in some raid fights like Sloth and Matt, as well as also being useful on VG, Escort, and Trio.

I’m not sure what you want, when you specify one thing, then turn around and say the exact opposite.

I did not turn around, I would love necro to be great at one thing but it is rather irrelevant and the whole point of my topic was to say that it would be nice to have a place among other classes specially in PvE.

And regarding being “desired” in T4 fractals due to epi bouncing which emphasizes my point about how we can’t do much by ourselves, stacking necros in T4 fractals doesn’t mean necros are amazing, just means we are good only when stacked, might as well be skritt at this point.

We are good at Sloth for spreading other peoples condition damage and maybe a bit of projectile block and pulling downed players , these last two don’t make us special or required, more like if your team is bad and goes down a lot, and VG only viable if you have two necros.

We are a mediocre at most things if you put us in a controlled PvE place such as raids, fractals, etc.

MrMouser.6583:

Fatalyz.7168:

MrMouser.6583:

Fatalyz.7168:

MrMouser.6583:

I agree with your point, and it was basically what I wanted to say with this post, saying we are in a good state its like celebrating mediocrity, its like celebrating you coming 2nd place in a competition between 2 teams.

All I hope is that we will get to at least be great at something, do a thing better than others or at least as good as the best alternative and i don’t wan’t to wait for a new elite spec to fix that because I don’t think that trowing reaper in a box to be forgotten is a good idea, I love the greatsword, the shroud and from the so called rumors I ain’t very exited about our supposed to be new weapon.

Necromancers already has more access to boon corruption than any other profession, as well as the highest natural healthpool (counting Deathshroud), and a lot of self-sustain. Reaper itself is supposed to be a bruiser spec, it makes sense that it isn’t high dps or super tanky.

I also don’t think that the Reaper is being thrown into a box and forgotten. I do however, have the feeling that you want the Reaper to be something that it isn’t designed to be.

So in general if “you” are educated enough “you” understand that the necros can be played in any type of content, I am a believer of that and from what you say you are too, but try going with that first statement on a raid LFG cause I don’t even dare say a serious raiding guild and see the reaction, how much that matters.

I know these people are superficial and meta’s in GW2 have the goal, most of the times of skipping content and mechanics but you have to deal with them if you want to do certain content.

And about the last thing you said, no, at this point i don’t care what it does as long as it means I can have an at least equal role as the other classes, I don’t care for best of something, i just care about having a place in every situation and not being mocked at for playing a necro.

Your first post you said that you wanted necro to be great at something, do something better than others, they already do. I covered those points. Whether you like what they excel at is irrelevant to the point you were making, if it was, you should have specified in your post.

You are now saying that you want it to be equal to all other roles, and don’t care for the best, this was in direct opposition of what you originally stated.

Necros are already desired in T4 fractals and have a place in some raid fights like Sloth and Matt, as well as also being useful on VG, Escort, and Trio.

I’m not sure what you want, when you specify one thing, then turn around and say the exact opposite.

I did not turn around, I would love necro to be great at one thing but it is rather irrelevant and the whole point of my topic was to say that it would be nice to have a place among other classes specially in PvE.

And regarding being “desired” in T4 fractals due to epi bouncing which emphasizes my point about how we can’t do much by ourselves, stacking necros in T4 fractals doesn’t mean necros are amazing, just means we are good only when stacked, might as well be skritt at this point.

We are good at Sloth for spreading other peoples condition damage and maybe a bit of projectile block and pulling downed players , these last two don’t make us special or required, more like if your team is bad and goes down a lot, and VG only viable if you have two necros.

We are a mediocre at most things if you put us in a controlled PvE place such as raids, fractals, etc.

What place among other classes. I’m telling g you that they have a place and you dismiss it because it’s not what you want it to be, perhaps you can be more specific.

Necros are taken to t4s for more than epi bouncing, but also because it’s easy because of the amount of sustain it has.

Good is a relative term, good at what? They are good at a lot of things you just don’t agree with what they are good at, or you want them to be good at something else. Nothing wrong with wanting them to be good at something else, but that is what an(other) elite spec is for. Perhaps if reaper doesn’t have your playstyle, you can find something that does, or can suggest ideas for an elite spec to give you what you want.

Silv.9207:

A necromancer can win against different players in wvw (still depending on the skill level of enemies you find), but other classes can do way better. In wvw we’re not asked for roaming, we’re only asked to be mindless glass cannons into the zerg. To roam there’s better classes, with mobility skills, stealth, huge burst damage and more.

Someone say that the necro do his best while supported by a ele or a ranger, but the necro is the worst class ever to be supported, just because while in shroud we can’t be healed, making our ally waste his skills for us and obtaining no effects.

Actually the necromancer is in a “good” state, as ANet told us time ago. That’s the problem. That “good” state make us unable to be high dps, good supporter or a real dangerous enemy in pvp (unless few exeptions).

For small scale WvW, a necromancer offers unrivaled downcleave, beating warrior due to access to poison, and a combination of strong AoE damage and fairly high durability that allows them to shine in a bruiser role.

And yes, a necromancer synergizes incredibly well with Tempests even without them using heals. As you may realise, support can come in ways other than healing. For the Tempest-Reaper setup, they compliment each other in quite a few ways. Power Reapers especially can make good use out of every aura. Fire aura fuels Blighter’s Boon at crazy rates(1 stack of might per attacker per second), magnetic aura helps with people trying to pew pew a Reaper, shocking aura is just overall good as it basically makes them ungankable by thieves and mesmers. I shouldn’t even need to say anything about frost aura but the damage reduction is beautiful and chill on hit in combination with people focusing Reapers ensures a steady stream of chill applications, gaining the benefits of Cold Shoulder and Chilling Victory more often and obviously keeping targets within the Reaper’s reach.
Their combination of AoE stuns, soft CC and damage also compliment each other very well, allowing one to keep enemies within damage of the other.

Reaper-Druid is much more basic but based more on Power Reapers.
Druid healing is very bursty. Compared to other healers, such as guardians and the occasional mesmer, which are more heavily based on constant ticks of low to medium intensity healing, it has no issues with shroud and allows them to easily cover a necro while shroud is on cooldown. The same also applies to the Tempest but to a lesser degree.
As to what the Druid gains, it’s very simple. Vampiric Presence. Every single vampiric proc that a druid gets counts as them healing something, namely themselves, thus granting them astral force. So by just being there, a Reaper can enhance the healing abilities of a Druid by a significant margin.

And it just so happens that Druid and Tempest also work together very well as long as the Druid is not full support. Reaper-Druid-Tempest is actually a fairly solid combination for a WvW 5 man group.

Fatalyz.7168:

MrMouser.6583:

Fatalyz.7168:

MrMouser.6583:

Fatalyz.7168:

MrMouser.6583:

I agree with your point, and it was basically what I wanted to say with this post, saying we are in a good state its like celebrating mediocrity, its like celebrating you coming 2nd place in a competition between 2 teams.

All I hope is that we will get to at least be great at something, do a thing better than others or at least as good as the best alternative and i don’t wan’t to wait for a new elite spec to fix that because I don’t think that trowing reaper in a box to be forgotten is a good idea, I love the greatsword, the shroud and from the so called rumors I ain’t very exited about our supposed to be new weapon.

Necromancers already has more access to boon corruption than any other profession, as well as the highest natural healthpool (counting Deathshroud), and a lot of self-sustain. Reaper itself is supposed to be a bruiser spec, it makes sense that it isn’t high dps or super tanky.

I also don’t think that the Reaper is being thrown into a box and forgotten. I do however, have the feeling that you want the Reaper to be something that it isn’t designed to be.

So in general if “you” are educated enough “you” understand that the necros can be played in any type of content, I am a believer of that and from what you say you are too, but try going with that first statement on a raid LFG cause I don’t even dare say a serious raiding guild and see the reaction, how much that matters.

I know these people are superficial and meta’s in GW2 have the goal, most of the times of skipping content and mechanics but you have to deal with them if you want to do certain content.

And about the last thing you said, no, at this point i don’t care what it does as long as it means I can have an at least equal role as the other classes, I don’t care for best of something, i just care about having a place in every situation and not being mocked at for playing a necro.

Your first post you said that you wanted necro to be great at something, do something better than others, they already do. I covered those points. Whether you like what they excel at is irrelevant to the point you were making, if it was, you should have specified in your post.

You are now saying that you want it to be equal to all other roles, and don’t care for the best, this was in direct opposition of what you originally stated.

Necros are already desired in T4 fractals and have a place in some raid fights like Sloth and Matt, as well as also being useful on VG, Escort, and Trio.

I’m not sure what you want, when you specify one thing, then turn around and say the exact opposite.

I did not turn around, I would love necro to be great at one thing but it is rather irrelevant and the whole point of my topic was to say that it would be nice to have a place among other classes specially in PvE.

And regarding being “desired” in T4 fractals due to epi bouncing which emphasizes my point about how we can’t do much by ourselves, stacking necros in T4 fractals doesn’t mean necros are amazing, just means we are good only when stacked, might as well be skritt at this point.

We are good at Sloth for spreading other peoples condition damage and maybe a bit of projectile block and pulling downed players , these last two don’t make us special or required, more like if your team is bad and goes down a lot, and VG only viable if you have two necros.

We are a mediocre at most things if you put us in a controlled PvE place such as raids, fractals, etc.

What place among other classes. I’m telling g you that they have a place and you dismiss it because it’s not what you want it to be, perhaps you can be more specific.

Necros are taken to t4s for more than epi bouncing, but also because it’s easy because of the amount of sustain it has.

Good is a relative term, good at what? They are good at a lot of things you just don’t agree with what they are good at, or you want them to be good at something else. Nothing wrong with wanting them to be good at something else, but that is what an(other) elite spec is for. Perhaps if reaper doesn’t have your playstyle, you can find something that does, or can suggest ideas for an elite spec to give you what you want.

You are right in the points you make but you don’t understand what the problem is because maybe you don’t have to deal with the issues, I just came from spending 2 hours trying to get in a raid as a full viper reaper/ condi infused and no one wants a reaper, must be because they are so good at things that makes other classes look bad right?

That is the problem, tell me why no one wants a condi necro in a raid? because if its so good as you say it is this should not happen.

Maybe I am stupid, that could be.

MrMouser.6583:

…tell me why no one wants a condi necro in a raid? because if its so good as you say it is this should not happen.

Maybe I am stupid, that could be.

Because there are 2, maybe 3 fights, that actually benefit from the necromancer’s kit. Sloth and Matt. Granted in Sloth, if your party is actively avoiding unnecessary damage, then why do you need a Necro to pull condis off of you to send back to boss?

Just because the encounters are not designed with all of a necros kit in mind or even to need a necros kit, doesn’t mean that the necro is not good at anything.

Hence why I keep saying you need to be specific in what you are saying you want for the necro to be good at. It’s good at a lot of things, just not things that are necessary for a raid.

Specs are designed around a central theme, in the case of the Reaper, it’s being a bruiser and chilling, 2 things it does really really well, but what raid fight might you find a need for those traits? It’s my theory that e-specs will be designed with specific game modes in mind, and those modes will be what it is balanced for.

Fatalyz.7168:

MrMouser.6583:

…tell me why no one wants a condi necro in a raid? because if its so good as you say it is this should not happen.

Maybe I am stupid, that could be.

Because there are 2, maybe 3 fights, that actually benefit from the necromancer’s kit. Sloth and Matt. Granted in Sloth, if your party is actively avoiding unnecessary damage, then why do you need a Necro to pull condis off of you to send back to boss?

Just because the encounters are not designed with all of a necros kit in mind or even to need a necros kit, doesn’t mean that the necro is not good at anything.

Hence why I keep saying you need to be specific in what you are saying you want for the necro to be good at. It’s good at a lot of things, just not things that are necessary for a raid.

Specs are designed around a central theme, in the case of the Reaper, it’s being a bruiser and chilling, 2 things it does really really well, but what raid fight might you find a need for those traits? It’s my theory that e-specs will be designed with specific game modes in mind, and those modes will be what it is balanced for.

I don’t wanna argue with you, necros can do all the tings you say on paper or on groups that don’t care about the meta but the reality is if you want to pug raid with a necro, NO ONE wants you.

This was the entire purpose of my topic to say that the raid community doesn’t accept the necro as a viable option to a raid comp, we know they are wrong.

I mean when you have a 4 man team that can kill VG you can see how narrow minded meta raiders are and you can see how “hard” raids are, but it means nothing, we have to deal with the meta, unfortunately or i guess an alternative could be just to host my own raid.

Again, I appreciate the discussion we had and I agree and respects the points you made but the majority of people you have to deal with on a daily basis say otherwise and it doesn’t matter if they are wrong.

Fatalyz.7168:

Necros are taken to t4s for more than epi bouncing, but also because it’s easy because of the amount of sustain it has.

Good is a relative term, good at what? They are good at a lot of things you just don’t agree with what they are good at, or you want them to be good at something else. Nothing wrong with wanting them to be good at something else, but that is what an(other) elite spec is for. Perhaps if reaper doesn’t have your playstyle, you can find something that does, or can suggest ideas for an elite spec to give you what you want.

Being good/desired in fractals is completely different than being good in a raid… In a raid any strength of sustain you have is much less valuable because you have support heals and, in general, you shouldn’t be taking the kind of damage you do in t4’s unless you’re just standing right in front of the boss the entire time. Probably most importantly though, there’s no enrage timer in fractals, so outside of efficiency/wasting people’s time, DPS doesn’t ultimately matter there.

In raids though, DPS absolutely matters and since the jagged horror nerf, necro’s dps is on par/a little lower than most of the support classes. And this is the root of why nobody wants necros in raids—they’re a dps class with a support class’ dps numbers. The other three classes that offer little to no support outside of pewpew (Eles, Thiefs, and Condi Rangers) all do 15k+ more dps than a necro… Even DH’s and Rev’s out dps necros by around 7k, and they bring a lot more useful support to the table.

It makes you wonder what the dev’s want the necro’s role to be in raids? It’s clearly not dps, and it’s clearly not support… Are we supposed to be the tanks? Because that’s silly too since we would do nothing for the group outside of taking the hits. The only REAL value a necro brings to the group outside of epidemic cleave would be transfusion and plague signet to help save people who make mistakes in a few select fights. Or I guess Vampric Aura to help people maintain their scholar’s bonus? So our role is, like, the guy who doesn’t need to be there, but is just incase the other people you brought with are super bad?

narcx.3570:

Fatalyz.7168:

Necros are taken to t4s for more than epi bouncing, but also because it’s easy because of the amount of sustain it has.

Good is a relative term, good at what? They are good at a lot of things you just don’t agree with what they are good at, or you want them to be good at something else. Nothing wrong with wanting them to be good at something else, but that is what an(other) elite spec is for. Perhaps if reaper doesn’t have your playstyle, you can find something that does, or can suggest ideas for an elite spec to give you what you want.

Being good/desired in fractals is completely different than being good in a raid… In a raid any strength of sustain you have is much less valuable because you have support heals and, in general, you shouldn’t be taking the kind of damage you do in t4’s unless you’re just standing right in front of the boss the entire time. Probably most importantly though, there’s no enrage timer in fractals, so outside of efficiency/wasting people’s time, DPS doesn’t ultimately matter there.

In raids though, DPS absolutely matters and since the jagged horror nerf, necro’s dps is on par/a little lower than most of the support classes. And this is the root of why nobody wants necros in raids—they’re a dps class with a support class’ dps numbers. The other three classes that offer little to no support outside of pewpew (Eles, Thiefs, and Condi Rangers) all do 15k+ more dps than a necro… Even DH’s and Rev’s out dps necros by around 7k, and they bring a lot more useful support to the table.

It makes you wonder what the dev’s want the necro’s role to be in raids? It’s clearly not dps, and it’s clearly not support… Are we supposed to be the tanks? Because that’s silly too since we would do nothing for the group outside of taking the hits. The only REAL value a necro brings to the group outside of epidemic cleave would be transfusion and plague signet to help save people who make mistakes in a few select fights. Or I guess Vampric Aura to help people maintain their scholar’s bonus? So our role is, like, the guy who doesn’t need to be there, but is just incase the other people you brought with are super bad?

I realize that necro’s aren’t good at dps, or really anything that is desired in raids. But is that a profession design issue or an encounter issue? I believe it to be an encounter issue, as the profession existed long before the encounters did. I believe that the current design of Necros/Reapers needs encounters to be designed around what they are good at.

Future e-specs should give us more tools, and expand what roles we’ll be able to fill. Does it offer much solace for now, probably not. I would think better effort could be spent thinking of new E-specs, the roles that they could fill, and how it could interact with our mechanic.

Necro and Reaper are by design to be bruisers. The only thing Reaper was supposed to give us access to, was a bit more sustain, cleave, and lots of chill and ways to interact with it.

As long as Life Force exists in it’s current form, where it’s essentially an extra health bar, our dps (we do have some good burst sequences) and most likely our support options for our allies, are going to remain weak.

I would like to see an E-spec that changes our life force to work in a way that fuels our attacks or even our allies attacks, when activated. It could be built up the same as it is now, activated the same, have it’s own skills, and powers us or allies, until it’s drained. It does not act as extra health, so we are still bound by our regular HP and are able to receive heals from allies while this is active.

Fatalyz.7168:

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I realize that necro’s aren’t good at dps, or really anything that is desired in raids. But is that a profession design issue or an encounter issue? I believe it to be an encounter issue, as the profession existed long before the encounters did. I believe that the current design of Necros/Reapers needs encounters to be designed around what they are good at.

The thing is, you can’t really blame it on the encounters, as up until the October 18th patch, necro’s dps was—for the most part—fine in a raids… Sure, a little slow building and kinda super-cheesey, but they did respectable enough damage to justify taking them as a safer dps option. The problem is, the devs wanted to get rid of jagged horror abuse as it was clearly not intended, but in their zeal to erase their mistake, they didn’t compensate the necro’s dps options in any other way aside from buffing axe (but not enough to make it a competitive choice even when compared to the other weapons in the already lackluster power kit.)

They could have easily done some tuning, like say increasing the chance of Barbed Precision procs (in PvE only) to help make up for the insane loss of bleed stacks. Or something… I dunno. But instead, you’re right, they’re most likely going to be perfectly content leaving necros on the bench as the lowest dps profession, with the worst group support, until they come out with a new expansion.