Guild Wars 2

As it stands now i hear a lot of necros complain about death shroud or rarely use it in groups etc. After playing a necro heavily i may have identified some issues i’d like to share which you can defend or argue. But i think i may have a solution to make it a little bit more entertaining.

First issues i hear/see.

Deathshroud seems to favor tanky specced necros more than others due to its ability to absorb damage for the period.

Deathshroud often doesnt last long if beaten on and used for absorbing hits.

Deathshroud abilitys dont seem to favor condition builds well or even damage builds.

Deathshroud for most specs requires a lot of traits dedicated to it to make it worth while unlike other classes profession F1-f4 ability/abilitys.

Deathshroud forces you to temporarily give up your abilities in exchange for 4 abilitys that dont seem often as strong or versitile and yet still have relatively long cd considering.

in PVP i feel deathshroud has some better play due to the fact your often wanting to block some damage so this change will be geared towards other aspects.

My solution to the above issues…which some may be an issue for you others not. Is to change deathshroud.

1. Deathshroud allows you to continue to use your abilitys but you gain 3 new abilitys while its up as f2-f4. This drops the 2nd chilling attack, but now your primary attack applys a condition allowing it to be useful to condition necros.

2. because of this obvious buff deathshroud only absorbs half your damage while up. This also allows it to not dissapear in the blink of an eye if you get hit hard to ensure you can stil do some damage.

3. for pve builds that dont care for deathshroud because of its mostly defencive aspect (especially when not traited to do damage) i beleive a small damage buff should always be applied when deathshroud is up. Be it anything from 5-15% damage to a few stacks of might being applied while in it. Similiarly to how flamethrowers “juggernaut” trait works.

Obvious there would be some balancing to have to be done around this. But as a future idea “i realize this change would never happen for months judging at the slow rate of bugs getting fixed” but i think this would postively make deathshroud more exciting because you’d ALWAYS want to use it and find ways to use it often even if you were not traited entirely around the ability. Instead of sometimes feeling like the act of using it is somehow nerfing you. And besides giving up all your abilitys for 4 abilitys feels very lackluster. I’m sure theres lots of other things you could do but this is just my own personal idea.

How about just removing the degen from DS and adding at least 1 more ability?

No wonder you don’t like Death Shroud you don’t even understand it. Lemme copy and paste something from my guide on how I use Death Shroud.

Andele.1306:

How about just removing the degen from DS and adding at least 1 more ability?

The question is this. How do you redo the trait that makes death shroud consume life force 25 % slower if this was the case?

Death Shroud Use

((Copied from my Critmancer build of Condition/Power Hybrid))

I do feel there are some issues with DS but it mainly that DS 2 takes too long to reach the target and DS 3 fear is to short. Not to mention the traits for DS need a look because there are ones that are broken and ones that are just plain useless

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve read on these forums that DS is only being used as an “oh kitten” button for when the Necro needs to escape. This makes me want to Facepalm because Necros are getting hung up on the whole “second life bar” aspect of it and are not putting the particular tools of the mechanic to good use.

To start, DS is really going to be something that is dependent on your build. It can be as much an offensive weapon as it is a defensive. In terms of my particular build I use it more for its offensive capabilities but do leave room for the defensive when needed.

The first thing to remember about DS is that your Lifeblast will hit the hardest from 100% life force to 75% give or take. After that the numbers significantly decrease to where at 50% it’s no longer really viable to spam. Not to mention I have traited to gain Fury when I enter DS usually giving me roughly 70% chance to crit as well as Might (and Vuln/Pierce of you choose it) on Lifeblast. What does this mean for you? You are now a Power machine that is able to pump out 2500-3500 lifeblast crits. I usually get around 3/5 crits before my Life force drops too far and I swap out.
The second thing is to never stay in Death Shroud for too long. It is a situational mechanic (which will be explained later) that really shines when you try to perform quick actions then swap back out. Lingering too long will set you back in the long run with Life Force if you don’t have ample means of gaining it back. It will also leave you without that emergency button second health bar and as stated make your attacks weak.
The third is and final thing is that it is an incredible downed finisher. My highest crits come from Lifeblast on downed targets that I could not get to in melee due to damage. I am able to sit on tower walls on Lifeblast finish people if they are too close as well.

Situational Uses:

Gap Closer – A very effective gap closer (if it didn’t take so long to get to the target if they are moving away). With the build I have here I am able to close the gap and immediately stack bleeds and start pumping Lifeblast and building might stacks. Swapping out I can now stack conditions and overwhelm them.

Downed Finisher – Pretty much explained this one, LB is a great finisher if you are unable to engage a target for the Finish in melee.

AoE Finisher – You can stack all your Conditions and then Epidemic, Swap to Death Shroud, Gap Close if needed and then hit your Life Drain and wtach the health abrs tumble, especially if you have Might stacks.

On Demand Burst – One of the lacking areas of the Conditionmancer, the Critmancer is able to turn DS into a 3k crit machinegun to finish off opponents if they DoTs aren;t doing it. Most classes are still panicking when they see the spam crits.

Interrupt – Not at easy as you might think, the Fear is actually great for interrupting a heal or cast.

Oh Kitten – Yes it can be used for this. I know I will burn it for the added buffer of damage just to make sure I don’t lose my 25 stacks of Bloodlust. The key is to play the Necro so that this truly is the LAST RESORT. This class is not strong when it gets separated from the pack by a group of others. There are no escape measures except surviving till help arrives or you can zone in somewhere safe.

Deathshroud is fun. Stack Vitality…you are a Necromancer. Even if you don’t stack Vitality, the class has a lot of health to start with. The purpose of Deathshroud is to extend your life until your heals come off cool down. It is very helpful and it works.

Having all of that health means that I can take on a lot of bad guys in PVE. I can even absorb a bunch of adds, such as when a group spawns on me. It is an aspect of the core Necromancer play style, being a high health class, and Deathshroud has synergy with that aspect of the class.

Isn’t there a trait that stacks Might in Deathshroud with the #1 ability? It’s in one of the damage trait lines, is it not?

Haligator.9615:

Deathshroud is fun. Stack Vitality…you are a Necromancer. Even if you don’t stack Vitality, the class has a lot of health to start with. The purpose of Deathshroud is to extend your life until your heals come off cool down. It is very helpful and it works.

Having all of that health means that I can take on a lot of bad guys in PVE. I can even absorb a bunch of adds, such as when a group spawns on me. It is an aspect of the core Necromancer play style, being a high health class, and Deathshroud has synergy with that aspect of the class.

Isn’t there a trait that stacks Might in Deathshroud with the #1 ability? It’s in one of the damage trait lines, is it not?

“for clarification” I remember reading somewhere that Toughness does not affect your LF in DS. I was a nub and put Vitality however ./facepalm

Its not about the effectiveness of it that is the arguement. Its the fun factor. I’m wagering that people dont find it a fun mechanic or atleast not as fun as it COULD be. Many necro abilitys help you get your deathshroud LF bar maxed quickly so you can take advantage of it. As it stands you have to temporarily give up all of your abilities to make use of your 4 profession abilities…the catch is while you do that your damage is transfered to your LF bar instead of your normal HP…thus the entire perk and design around deathshroud being what it is.

I cant speak for everyone. But i would think a temporary steroid that perhaps slightly increased and lowered your overall damage while giving you temporarily access to an ADDTIONAL 3 abilitys would be more satisfying to the player. Like i said in my original post i’m sure there could be other design routes to take it…but the current one is really lack luster for most players myself included.

many people make the mistake of argueing someones complaint about something not being fun by countering with how it ’pwns or works". that doesnt counter it not being fun. And as i understood arenanets design goal was to make everthing fun. I think deathshroud could be improved in this area.

They need to make it :

1 – Useful for every type of necromancer.

2 – More Traits to add to/change how Death Shroud and skills function

3 – IMO, remove degen and have skills cost Life Force and make them worth their cost, true Life Force management.

DS could be pretty interesting if each weapon had different abilities in that form.

i like knote and riles ideas. both are pretty solid.

Death Shroud is actually a nice idea because you need to “stance dance”. However, the implementation was, as with so many things, quite bad.

Reasons are:
1. Doesn’t fit into every build (e.g. Conditions build). Why not give it a bleed condition attack?
2. Traits spread about gazillion trees
3. More than 4 abilities would be appreciated. Man, a decent aoe pushback would be golden.
4. A tad increased life force gain would be great as well
5. Stability Trait should be in a lower tier. It is soo necessary but if you spec for life force you have to choose between the 5 sec cd reduction or this. If you really want to make DS en par with other mechanics this (imo) would be a good step

A lack of stability in DS is a big issue, without utilities to break out of stun, your pretty much helpless in DS if somebody bullrush/pistol whips you.

From my experience with death shroud, going into a mob of good players, you will most likely die. Stun, knockdowns, charge, dead.

In a way, going into death shroud actually kittens the necro because at least when you are in regular mode, you have spectral walk and other stun breakers.

Zintair.1987:

Vitality does not increase your LF pool.

Seriously, I mean no offense. But the irony here, when clueless people like you even trying to write guides…

W/ full toughness /condition gear

in wvw i do not have a problem running into an entire enemy zerg (10-20) getting focused and walking out alive. Yes DS

No i do not dmg but i make sure my team never dies

i always liked support/ beef

not dps lawlthief burst

-30 Soul reaping the life force pool is kinda redic w/toughness

-80 necro

PS: im not even sure toughness effects dmg u take in deathshroud i never bothered testing way to bad /lazy

Could DS use some love? sure. its 1 is too slow, and 2 is just way way way too slow. But other than that its fine.

A bigger problem is that our other condition weapon, staff, skill 1 does crap damage has a slow animation, slow projectile, and does not apply conditions. Should get fixed first.

What is it with the Necro that A.net said “hey lets make every one of their skills take 3sec to cast and then another 3 sec to get to another player, ya that would be so cool”

Kirika.9120:

Zintair.1987:

Vitality does not increase your LF pool.

Seriously, I mean no offense. But the irony here, when clueless people like you even trying to write guides…

I apologize I was under the impression reading on here that it does not affect your Lifeforce bar, i put Vitality by accident. Toughness is what doesn;t affect it. I had a ./facepalm moment. My bad. The only guide I tried to write was on a build I currently run that I find effective for WvW. I’m sure you’ve never made a mistake before.

Riles.4568:

DS could be pretty interesting if each weapon had different abilities in that form.

And we have the reason why i simply use DS as an osht button.

Its nice and all, but i already possess the skills i want/need for situations, none of which are apart of the DS arsenal.

The only thing that i actually like is that it honours sigils. Other than that, its a waste for most builds other than a stam builds. Even its trait is bleh, and my only reason for delving into the trait is because is so happens to increase crit damage, which works with my crit build.

Furious Demise giving fury for 5 seconds after popping shroud and then popping Life Transfer does a metric ton of damage to groups. It’s even viable on a solo mob, though I tend to only use it on 2 or more. With the way the damage exponentially increases and crits like crazy, there’s just crazy burst damage here to groups.

You also get an “oh man” (you know the word I want to use) emergency reserve health bar if you need it.

I like shroud. Could it be better? I suppose.. but I don’t really have any issues with it. I’ll take a minion AI overhaul (and perhaps some regen?) well before I hope they start messing with Death Shroud.

One of the mechanics of Death Shroud is that it is more powerful the more Lifeforce you have.

I personally was hoping ALL the abilities would work like this.

DS1 – already does
DS2 – Projectile Speed increase or bleed stack increase for conditionmancer viability in DS
DS3 – Increase fear duration the higher LF.
DS4 – Fine as is maybe a slight cooldown decrease with Full LF?

Just a couple of suggestions I thought of off hand. The reality is I think DS in it’s current form is good, but needs tweaking.

I wouldn’t mind them first working on applying better synergy between Condition builds and DS. That is a major flaw design of the class and relatively important.

It’s indeed not very fun, would be fun if… DS skills changed depending on the weapon, or if increased life force pool had an effect on the skills, but as it is right now it’s not fun, even with a power deathshroud build its not so fun just to spam 1 trying to kill a target.

So basically it’s just there to take high damage and fear when necessary.

Let’s all agree on one thing: DS in water combat makes us cry

Riles.4568:

DS could be pretty interesting if each weapon had different abilities in that form.

This is an insanely fantastic idea – this would solve the issue of being able to use DS in any build and also make it more fun. However I highly doubt this will happen and IF it does, it won’t be happening any time soon.

This would have been an amazing idea if they did this from the start – imagine.

What if your four DS abilities were based on what MH weapon you were using when you went into it, for example;

With a scepter you’d have #1 stack bleeds, #2 cause poison and blind in an area around yourself, #3 be a small AoE 2 second fear, #4 be a bouncing attack that transferred conditions with each bounce.

With a dagger you’d have a short range AoE quick flurry of slashes around yourself with #1, with #2 you’d have the gap closer that sends you to the target like we already have, #3 would be immobilize all around you in a small area around you for some 3 seconds and #4 the already there life syphon in an area around you.

So on and so forth, if the DS abilities were based on your current weapon that would be just fantastic. However I imagine this would be slightly more complicated to trait for, not too much though if you think about it.

Disconnected.9253:

Let’s all agree on one thing: DS in water combat makes us cry

/signed

NUFF SAID, Im still not even sure what that last one is doing lol.

I don’t find death shroud that fun, however I do think the animations on it are excellent.

I agree with most of what is being said here. DS can be strong if traited for (which I am) but I still find it dull, lacking in versatility and seems like minimal effort was put into its design. It’s still a great concept. The idea of building up LF to go into an overdrive mode of sorts with unique skills is a great one. The implementation past the design board falls flat on its face, however.

I like the idea of your DS skills being based on your weapons. It allows for more depth to be build into the system. This route would probably take a while to implement/test, still a great option though!
or…

The other idea I’ve seen thrown around is doing away with the form itself altogether and just having F1-F4 act as unique skills that each consume a portion of LF. No cooldown on these skills, strictly regulate them through LF costs.

-F1: Life Blast: Damage your enemy. Does more damage the closer you are to the enemy and extends the duration of your bleeds and poisons by 2s. 10 Life Force.
-F2: Doom: Fears your target for 1s and chills all nearby enemies for 5s. 20 Life Force.
-F3: Life Transfer: Damages and bleeds nearby enemies while granting might and healing to allies. 50 Life Force.
-F4: Death Shroud: Gain stability for 5s and a damage shield equal to (X% of HP * armor) type of deal. 50 Life Force.

Offense, control, support, defense. We lose Dark Path’s teleport, but I’ve always been a fan of baking this into Dark Pact in some fashion anyway. The teleport was marginally useful to non melee specs anyway.

Riles.4568:

DS could be pretty interesting if each weapon had different abilities in that form.

Yeah, that would make Death Shroud fantastic and it’s how I thought it would work when I first heard of the Necromancers profession mechanic. It’d be nice if they gave us a Death Shroud set for each of our weapons and off-hands but if that’s too much (I don’t think it would be but hey, I’ve been wrong before) then just change the 1 and 2 ability based on your weapon.

(BTW, I love Life Transfer, so much fun, drop a couple of wells and then kick that off in the middle of a horde and you feel truly powerful as Necromancer).

Draehl.2681:

I agree with most of what is being said here. DS can be strong if traited for (which I am) but I still find it dull, lacking in versatility and seems like minimal effort was put into its design. It’s still a great concept. The idea of building up LF to go into an overdrive mode of sorts with unique skills is a great one. The implementation past the design board falls flat on its face, however.

I like the idea of your DS skills being based on your weapons. It allows for more depth to be build into the system. This route would probably take a while to implement/test, still a great option though!
or…

The other idea I’ve seen thrown around is doing away with the form itself altogether and just having F1-F4 act as unique skills that each consume a portion of LF. No cooldown on these skills, strictly regulate them through LF costs.

-F1: Life Blast: Damage your enemy. Does more damage the closer you are to the enemy and extends the duration of your bleeds and poisons by 2s. 10 Life Force.
-F2: Doom: Fears your target for 1s and chills all nearby enemies for 5s. 20 Life Force.
-F3: Life Transfer: Damages and bleeds nearby enemies while granting might and healing to allies. 50 Life Force.
-F4: Death Shroud: Gain stability for 5s and a damage shield equal to (X% of HP * armor) type of deal. 50 Life Force.

Offense, control, support, defense. We lose Dark Path’s teleport, but I’ve always been a fan of baking this into Dark Pact in some fashion anyway. The teleport was marginally useful to non melee specs anyway.

I like the weapon thing as much as anyone else but also agree it might take a long time to create and balance. I like your suggestion “though i really like the animation with the dark smoke around you…would have to exist somewhere else”. One thing i like about your idea is it doesnt put you in another form where you cant use your normal abilitys. I never liked the idea of temporarily losing all my abilitys. WoW i beleive originally did warlocks demon form that way and then realized it was funner to be able to do your normal stuff but just have a few extra abilitys while you get a temporary steroid. I honestly expected deathshroud to work more like that…you get a steroid while its on and maybe a couple new abilitys to toss out. Irrigardless any of these ideas would be better than what it is now. Its biggest issue for me is i dont find it fun…or atleast not near as fun as it could be.