Guild Wars 2

since I know that attention for a lot of people can be difficult I’ll make this fairly short. I’ll probably be making similar posts in the future about other Specializations, however I feel that this is the easiest to actually improve at the moment.

Death magic has always been our defensive and minion line. But historically it was also the dedicated disease line in GW1. Now, I know we no longer have the diseased condition so what might not be a bad idea is making Death magic care about poison instead.

I’d like to follow the same format as the reaper follows with its traits. 3 specific themes that work toward a specific play style.

Themes
Minions
Cheating Death
Necrosis/Toxicity

Minions:

Although I think that these traits are mostly good there is one glaring problem with them as of the recent change. 30 seconds is way too short a duration for Death nova. It hardly provides a real benefit for such a fickle condition to achieve. Although I understand why the change was made, it could be easily fixed with two possible solutions.

Solution 1: Remove the bleed that the Jagged horrors provide. This would prevent condi builds from over abusing the minion’s overall power. However there are complications with this as minions can snowball. My personal opinion of this is they should have that option though.

Solution 2: Increase their life span. 30 seconds is nothing. Although in theory you should be able to have 2 minions at all times in practice this is never the case. 1 minion is the most common as the condition is often too difficult to achieve. Lowering the cool down of the trigger or increasing their life span could alleviate this issue.

Minions in General: Some minion skills I feel just aren’t strong enough to justify a utility slot. This is one of the reasons why we saw the condi minion build being so popular. Players want to run minions in PvE and having a good option to do that was something that excited a lot of people. I’ve talked to some people and I know this is anecdotal evidence, however they mentioned that they didn’t want to play a necromancer because the minion master build wasn’t good. I feel this could be fixed by increasing the Bone minion’s numbers from 2 possibly all the way up to 5. Perhaps drop their putrid explosion damage.

Cheating Death

Defense should be a theme for the Death magic but how the necromancer goes about it should be in line with their normal method. In this section I feel that their might be an over focus defense which has lead to traits butting heads with each other. Such as Putrid defense and shrouded removal. Shrouded removal is the superior of the two and I feel that having a bit more focus on the shroud should be how we do this line.

Solution: Unholy Sanctuary should be the dedicated defense trait and I feel that it should be combine with Corrupter’s fervor. Rather than triggering on condition application, slowly build up the longer the user is in shroud.

Traits for this line should be Shrouded removal, Reaper’s Protection and Unholy Sanctuary.

Necrosis/Toxicity

This line I feel has the least support but the coolest concept. In no circumstance would you ever want to take Putrid Defense. However there are some changes that could easily change that.

1. Remove Deadly strength: These stat boost traits are usually bad on their own and this one is no acceptation. I personal feel that these percentage boosts should be removed in favor of something else for each profession, for the most part. However, if they are paired with another ability I could see justification for them. but on their own, no.

1. Putrid Defense should have a bonus effect outside of just the 10% damage reduction. A 10-20% duration increase to poison should also be included. This will help with the poison theme.

1. Replace Deadly Strength with Necrosis: A trait idea that triggers on entering or exiting shroud Which cause you to poison near by foes. Simple, how many stacks should be considered. My thoughts are 2, however it could be higher or lower.

1. Tainted Shroud: A new grandmaster of my own design. Inspired by Tainted flesh from GW1, Tainted shroud would pulse out poison ever few seconds to near by foes. while in shroud. Some issues I see with condi builds is we don’t have that set up that wants to be in shroud. And I feel that this sort of trait could work very well in combination with other traits that want players to stick in shroud. At the moment condi necromancer dislike being in shroud for an extended period of time.

Lily.1935:

1. Tainted Shroud: A new grandmaster of my own design. Inspired by Tainted flesh from GW1, Tainted shroud would pulse out poison ever few seconds to near by foes. while in shroud. Some issues I see with condi builds is we don’t have that set up that wants to be in shroud. And I feel that this sort of trait could work very well in combination with other traits that want players to stick in shroud. At the moment condi necromancer dislike being in shroud for an extended period of time.

This trait would be a-mazing, in my opinion. It could reallllllyyy change how Necromancers play in WvW AND sPvP (from a player vs. player perspective). Pulsing AoE poison would be crazy amazing in the Death Magic line. With an addition of a trait like that, Death Magic could easily be up there with Curses or Spite to the point where it could be meta or very popular (Imagine pulsing AoE poison with Thorn Runes…). If the traits were re-arrange such that you could take Putrid Defense, Shrouded Removal and “Tainted Shroud”, you could become super deadly and tanky. Dhuumfire, Earth sigil and Tainted Shroud = burning, poison and bleeds – lots of condi pressure while in shroud while also having excellent defense would be very very good, imo, and would allow for more interesting Rune choices for Necros too. Do it Anet. Do it!

Sorry, just liked the idea (now… to change Soul Comprehension xD ).

As a “defensive” line, Death Magic does not do much with shroud. You can get added power, toughness, and regeneration in shroud but those are only minor adjustments.

In contrast, Soul Reaping has much more powerful modifiers to shroud and life force management. Even Reaper has potent LF generation and Death’s Charge, which is naturally over shadowed by Blighter’s Boon, one of the best traits Necromancer has when used with Chilling Victory.

What does DM have for real defense? Minions. There are no blocks, evades, stealth, or mobility traits that would add significant defense outside of shroud. DM has only minor defensive value without them.

DM also has little in the way of offensive capability, too. Necromatic Corruption is the only solid dps improvement trait in the whole line.

At least with Blood Magic we get some group utility, Curses supports sceptre builds, and Spite increases dps.

Deadly Strength should give bonus power outside of shroud as well as inside – enough to get people to drop Spite in some cases.

Putrid Defense should eat up to 3 conditions entering shroud and give 3 sec of resistance for each one on exiting instead of a weak 10% damage reduction from poisoned foes.

Your tainted shroud idea sounds like it would be very good with Putrid Defense but being able to poison foes easily on power builds might be too strong.

There are two fundamental problems with Death Magic that I do not think the usual balance team tweaks can address:

1. It is not really effective as a defensive line aside from open world PvE as a MM where minions hold agro.

2. It does not have non-MM benefit outside of shroud and does not modify shroud as much as more popular lines.

Still need a replacement for Soul Comprehension, but otherwise, I think it looks like great ideas!

I am not sure if i would agree with every of you changes. But having those 3 themes minion/cheat death/poison and necrosis, i think, is a really good idea.

And of course Soul comprehension needs a rework.

I rather like how death magic works and your suggestions make the trait line useless to me.

Hesacon.8735:

I rather like how death magic works and your suggestions make the trait line useless to me.

So, what gets cut, exactly? Only change that could possibly make it “useless” is the removal of Reaper’s Protection (since the only other removed item is just stats).

The rest is either preserved or improved upon with better synergy.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Hesacon.8735:

I rather like how death magic works and your suggestions make the trait line useless to me.

So, what gets cut, exactly? Only change that could possibly make it “useless” is the removal of Reaper’s Protection (since the only other removed item is just stats).

The rest is either preserved or improved upon with better synergy.

He suggests removing deadly strength, which is very painful for my power wvw build since it adds 100 power outside of shroud and 200 within it. We’re talking a 5-10% loss in DPS/spike damage. There isn’t a way to make up that damage with other trait lines.

It’s a very big nerf.

Muchacho.2390:

I am not sure if i would agree with every of you changes. But having those 3 themes minion/cheat death/poison and necrosis, i think, is a really good idea.

And of course Soul comprehension needs a rework.

Sure, the themes are more important to me. The only change I absolutely want is Putrid armor gaining that 20% poison duration. I don’t feel it’d be too much as an adept trait. All others are up for discussion though.

If you have your own ideas feel free to share them. I’m not set in stone on anything else.

Hesacon.8735:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Hesacon.8735:

I rather like how death magic works and your suggestions make the trait line useless to me.

So, what gets cut, exactly? Only change that could possibly make it “useless” is the removal of Reaper’s Protection (since the only other removed item is just stats).

The rest is either preserved or improved upon with better synergy.

He suggests removing deadly strength, which is very painful for my power wvw build since it adds 100 power outside of shroud and 200 within it. We’re talking a 5-10% loss in DPS/spike damage. There isn’t a way to make up that damage with other trait lines.

It’s a very big nerf.

If that trait is the only reason you’re taking death magic I’d suggest dropping death magic for something more useful. Blood, or spite, or even Soul reaping. The power you get from it pales in comparison to the life stealing damage or the might stacks you’d gain from Spite.

Muchacho.2390:

I am not sure if i would agree with every of you changes. But having those 3 themes minion/cheat death/poison and necrosis, i think, is a really good idea.

And of course Soul comprehension needs a rework.

I’m not worried about my ideas being agreed with 100%. More the concept. You have alternative ideas for this theme though? I’d love to hear them. I’m not trying to be condescending or anything like that. This forum post was made to share potential ideas. If not, that’s fine I can always just run out more ideas I’ve had.

For example, a GM trait that changes the function of Poison to spread to an adjacent foe once per new application. Sorta like making it function like disease. That could be interesting.

Lily.1935:

Hesacon.8735:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Hesacon.8735:

I rather like how death magic works and your suggestions make the trait line useless to me.

So, what gets cut, exactly? Only change that could possibly make it “useless” is the removal of Reaper’s Protection (since the only other removed item is just stats).

The rest is either preserved or improved upon with better synergy.

He suggests removing deadly strength, which is very painful for my power wvw build since it adds 100 power outside of shroud and 200 within it. We’re talking a 5-10% loss in DPS/spike damage. There isn’t a way to make up that damage with other trait lines.

It’s a very big nerf.

If that trait is the only reason you’re taking death magic I’d suggest dropping death magic for something more useful. Blood, or spite, or even Soul reaping. The power you get from it pales in comparison to the life stealing damage or the might stacks you’d gain from Spite.

This is exactly what I did with my WvW build. I run a soul reaping/blood magic/reaper staff wells build. The overall damage/sustain from blood far outweighs anything death magic offers, as well as quicker cd on wells for spiking and a helpful extra heal/res assist in the form of Ritual of Life.

I have been running that build, too, in WvW. That said, I am not very happy with the damage or utility.

Lahmia.2193:

Lily.1935:

Hesacon.8735:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Hesacon.8735:

I rather like how death magic works and your suggestions make the trait line useless to me.

So, what gets cut, exactly? Only change that could possibly make it “useless” is the removal of Reaper’s Protection (since the only other removed item is just stats).

The rest is either preserved or improved upon with better synergy.

He suggests removing deadly strength, which is very painful for my power wvw build since it adds 100 power outside of shroud and 200 within it. We’re talking a 5-10% loss in DPS/spike damage. There isn’t a way to make up that damage with other trait lines.

It’s a very big nerf.

If that trait is the only reason you’re taking death magic I’d suggest dropping death magic for something more useful. Blood, or spite, or even Soul reaping. The power you get from it pales in comparison to the life stealing damage or the might stacks you’d gain from Spite.

This is exactly what I did with my WvW build. I run a soul reaping/blood magic/reaper staff wells build. The overall damage/sustain from blood far outweighs anything death magic offers, as well as quicker cd on wells for spiking and a helpful extra heal/res assist in the form of Ritual of Life.

I use death magic because I don’t run reaper because I don’t find reaper to be very… good, even before all the nerfs it got. I use it as much for unholy sanctuary as I do deadly magic, but at the end of the day it’s a nice mix of survivability and DPS improvement.

I don’t find blood magic to be at all useful because for blood magic’s damage to mean anything you have to be constantly applying damage. The sheer amount of dodges, invulnerabilities, and blocks in the game make this difficult, so I personally opt for spike damage making every hit count. As such, blood magic is too slow.

I would probably end up taking curses over blood magic if I couldn’t use death magic, just for the condi transfer.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRUQNAndWjc0Oaqst2WTbsRSb4v93OqFK5QM2BMdMmjqFmABwMA-TlDFQBsb/hGcEAAwJQgAPAg0ojQJK5yjmgkoMQAHiAsoEUhKFajWA3pBRfq/QIgybBA-w

Hesacon.8735:

Lahmia.2193:

Lily.1935:

Hesacon.8735:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Hesacon.8735:

I rather like how death magic works and your suggestions make the trait line useless to me.

So, what gets cut, exactly? Only change that could possibly make it “useless” is the removal of Reaper’s Protection (since the only other removed item is just stats).

The rest is either preserved or improved upon with better synergy.

He suggests removing deadly strength, which is very painful for my power wvw build since it adds 100 power outside of shroud and 200 within it. We’re talking a 5-10% loss in DPS/spike damage. There isn’t a way to make up that damage with other trait lines.

It’s a very big nerf.

If that trait is the only reason you’re taking death magic I’d suggest dropping death magic for something more useful. Blood, or spite, or even Soul reaping. The power you get from it pales in comparison to the life stealing damage or the might stacks you’d gain from Spite.

This is exactly what I did with my WvW build. I run a soul reaping/blood magic/reaper staff wells build. The overall damage/sustain from blood far outweighs anything death magic offers, as well as quicker cd on wells for spiking and a helpful extra heal/res assist in the form of Ritual of Life.

I use death magic because I don’t run reaper because I don’t find reaper to be very… good, even before all the nerfs it got. I use it as much for unholy sanctuary as I do deadly magic, but at the end of the day it’s a nice mix of survivability and DPS improvement.

I don’t find blood magic to be at all useful because for blood magic’s damage to mean anything you have to be constantly applying damage. The sheer amount of dodges, invulnerabilities, and blocks in the game make this difficult, so I personally opt for spike damage making every hit count. As such, blood magic is too slow.

I would probably end up taking curses over blood magic if I couldn’t use death magic, just for the condi transfer.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRUQNAndWjc0Oaqst2WTbsRSb4v93OqFK5QM2BMdMmjqFmABwMA-TlDFQBsb/hGcEAAwJQgAPAg0ojQJK5yjmgkoMQAHiAsoEUhKFajWA3pBRfq/QIgybBA-w

Your build looks…. Interesting. Although I’d still drop Death for blood if you refuse to use reaper. The life stealing and well reduction is pretty solid. Not only that, with that particular build I’d criticize the use of Unholy sanctuary. That trait is more for people who are not used to how death shroud works. But overall, I’m just not sure what your build is trying to do. Are you in a zerg? Roaming? It seems fairly janky if you ask me and most of the trait choices I’m questioning.

I don’t have much experience in WvW so maybe you could explain it better.

Lily.1935:

Hesacon.8735:

Lahmia.2193:

Lily.1935:

Hesacon.8735:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Hesacon.8735:

I rather like how death magic works and your suggestions make the trait line useless to me.

So, what gets cut, exactly? Only change that could possibly make it “useless” is the removal of Reaper’s Protection (since the only other removed item is just stats).

The rest is either preserved or improved upon with better synergy.

He suggests removing deadly strength, which is very painful for my power wvw build since it adds 100 power outside of shroud and 200 within it. We’re talking a 5-10% loss in DPS/spike damage. There isn’t a way to make up that damage with other trait lines.

It’s a very big nerf.

If that trait is the only reason you’re taking death magic I’d suggest dropping death magic for something more useful. Blood, or spite, or even Soul reaping. The power you get from it pales in comparison to the life stealing damage or the might stacks you’d gain from Spite.

This is exactly what I did with my WvW build. I run a soul reaping/blood magic/reaper staff wells build. The overall damage/sustain from blood far outweighs anything death magic offers, as well as quicker cd on wells for spiking and a helpful extra heal/res assist in the form of Ritual of Life.

I use death magic because I don’t run reaper because I don’t find reaper to be very… good, even before all the nerfs it got. I use it as much for unholy sanctuary as I do deadly magic, but at the end of the day it’s a nice mix of survivability and DPS improvement.

I don’t find blood magic to be at all useful because for blood magic’s damage to mean anything you have to be constantly applying damage. The sheer amount of dodges, invulnerabilities, and blocks in the game make this difficult, so I personally opt for spike damage making every hit count. As such, blood magic is too slow.

I would probably end up taking curses over blood magic if I couldn’t use death magic, just for the condi transfer.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRUQNAndWjc0Oaqst2WTbsRSb4v93OqFK5QM2BMdMmjqFmABwMA-TlDFQBsb/hGcEAAwJQgAPAg0ojQJK5yjmgkoMQAHiAsoEUhKFajWA3pBRfq/QIgybBA-w

Your build looks…. Interesting. Although I’d still drop Death for blood if you refuse to use reaper. The life stealing and well reduction is pretty solid. Not only that, with that particular build I’d criticize the use of Unholy sanctuary. That trait is more for people who are not used to how death shroud works. But overall, I’m just not sure what your build is trying to do. Are you in a zerg? Roaming? It seems fairly janky if you ask me and most of the trait choices I’m questioning.

I don’t have much experience in WvW so maybe you could explain it better.

The lack of soul marks hurts my brain.

Lily.1935:

Hesacon.8735:

Lahmia.2193:

Lily.1935:

Hesacon.8735:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Hesacon.8735:

I rather like how death magic works and your suggestions make the trait line useless to me.

So, what gets cut, exactly? Only change that could possibly make it “useless” is the removal of Reaper’s Protection (since the only other removed item is just stats).

The rest is either preserved or improved upon with better synergy.

He suggests removing deadly strength, which is very painful for my power wvw build since it adds 100 power outside of shroud and 200 within it. We’re talking a 5-10% loss in DPS/spike damage. There isn’t a way to make up that damage with other trait lines.

It’s a very big nerf.

If that trait is the only reason you’re taking death magic I’d suggest dropping death magic for something more useful. Blood, or spite, or even Soul reaping. The power you get from it pales in comparison to the life stealing damage or the might stacks you’d gain from Spite.

This is exactly what I did with my WvW build. I run a soul reaping/blood magic/reaper staff wells build. The overall damage/sustain from blood far outweighs anything death magic offers, as well as quicker cd on wells for spiking and a helpful extra heal/res assist in the form of Ritual of Life.

I use death magic because I don’t run reaper because I don’t find reaper to be very… good, even before all the nerfs it got. I use it as much for unholy sanctuary as I do deadly magic, but at the end of the day it’s a nice mix of survivability and DPS improvement.

I don’t find blood magic to be at all useful because for blood magic’s damage to mean anything you have to be constantly applying damage. The sheer amount of dodges, invulnerabilities, and blocks in the game make this difficult, so I personally opt for spike damage making every hit count. As such, blood magic is too slow.

I would probably end up taking curses over blood magic if I couldn’t use death magic, just for the condi transfer.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRUQNAndWjc0Oaqst2WTbsRSb4v93OqFK5QM2BMdMmjqFmABwMA-TlDFQBsb/hGcEAAwJQgAPAg0ojQJK5yjmgkoMQAHiAsoEUhKFajWA3pBRfq/QIgybBA-w

Your build looks…. Interesting. Although I’d still drop Death for blood if you refuse to use reaper. The life stealing and well reduction is pretty solid. Not only that, with that particular build I’d criticize the use of Unholy sanctuary. That trait is more for people who are not used to how death shroud works. But overall, I’m just not sure what your build is trying to do. Are you in a zerg? Roaming? It seems fairly janky if you ask me and most of the trait choices I’m questioning.

I don’t have much experience in WvW so maybe you could explain it better.

Unholy sanctuary is as much about the healing as anything in the marathon fights. Often you will get dumped out of shroud and having a cushion lets you get to your heal. “Targeting the necro” is a meme over on the spvp board, so having the auto activate of shroud is nice to have for when you get carpet bombed.

It’s set up to move between a zerg and roaming without taking the time to change builds. If something needs to be attacked (a camp, tapping a keep) that would be a poor use of zerg resources it’s nice to be able to do that and link back up with the zerg after.

I’ve played around swapping each of the three lines for reaper and blood magic and I just feel like it’s giving up too much to use either.

I guess it’s more aiming at something akin to “90% optimal for everything,” which gives up something. If I wanted to just roam I could go thief or mesmer and if I wanted to just zerg I’d play guardian or ranger (and let people roll their eyes).

Lahmia.2193:

The lack of soul marks hurts my brain.

I understand why people use it, but I don’t need the life force (axe and focus generate enough). The unblockable is nice, but a 7 second shroud cooldown and mobility increase are more likely to keep me alive.

Unholy sanctuary has the same numbers as regeneration and given our average shroud uptime, the numbers are not good enough for a GM trait. The base healing should be higher imo (around 200 i think is a good number).

Yeah the passive shroud activation is situationally useful but for someone who knows to use shroud properly it isnt really needed.

In the end US is like most other deathmagic traits medicore at best. Only shrouded removel is good but it isnt good enough to carry the line.

I don’t like combining Unholy Sanctuary and Corruptor’s Fervor but I do like the idea of a trait which pulses out Poison on a timescale. I also like the idea of removing Deathly Strength. Maybe push one of those two traits down to the Master tier and put that Poison trait in the GM. Choosing between Reaper’s Protection and Corruptor’s Fervor is a decent choice as you’re choosing between possibly Terror/Fear of Death and the defenses that Corruptor’s Fervor provides.

I think a good second effect for Poop Shield would be “while above the threshold, apply poison(5s) when struck. 5s cd)”. I like the idea of applying token Poison and therefore the benefits of the trait.

I think you should also be looking at Soul Comprehension. This is a bad minor trait, & since it’s a minor, everyone with Death Magic has it- and everyone with it sucks by default.

Muchacho.2390:

Unholy sanctuary has the same numbers as regeneration and given our average shroud uptime, the numbers are not good enough for a GM trait. The base healing should be higher imo (around 200 i think is a good number).

Yeah the passive shroud activation is situationally useful but for someone who knows to use shroud properly it isnt really needed.

In the end US is like most other deathmagic traits medicore at best. Only shrouded removel is good but it isnt good enough to carry the line.

I wouldn’t be upset if they buffed it. The last couple of balance patches anet has a history of buffing the underloved things I run anyway like Life Blast (removed range-based damage), axe (seriously buffed #2 and #3) and focus (faster casts and lower cooldowns), so who knows, maybe we’ll get lucky.

It’s an underwhelming line to be sure, but if we’re wishful thinking about improving trait lines then blood magic and curses are equally underwhelming.

DM needs rework. Even the Minion traits could use an update after the power and cleansing creep HoT brought. I do not run Death Nova on MM builds any more. Necromatic Corruption is the only MM trait I need.