Guild Wars 2

This trait now applies 3 stacks of bleeds on chill. Its Dhuumfire all over again guys. This change doesn’t help the core issues condi necros have: decent utility with engaging playstyle.

On the plus side, my gimmick choice of food, Roasted Artichokes, might be meta on fractals now. I guess I was tryharding to frac with condi druid, back to condi necro auto spam with my cheap food.

Too bad they won’t give us it in sPvP.

Its actually for the best. If you remember the first iteration of Dhuumfire, you know what I mean.

It’s insane. Before the patch, i had a bit of a struggle getting to 7k bleeding dmg on a single enemy. Now, i can literally press 2 buttons and do twice as much.

Thing is, you were already pressing 2 buttons before. Thats why this change isnt healthy for necros.

Pregnantman.8259:

Its actually for the best. If you remember the first iteration of Dhuumfire, you know what I mean.

You do realize condi necro was already offensively underpowered before the patch right? We have the longest ramp time in PvP with the lowest burst once ramped.

Our soul purpose was to kill support eles, and engis, but now Ele and to a lesser extent engi has better cleansing in this patch in addition to other misc buffs.

But hey we should obviously been left in the dirt just because of a two week balance screwup that was literally years ago.

Condi Necro is dead, and unfortunately being a Lich isn’t viable either.

I am not saying condi necro shouldn’t be buffed, on the contrary, I want it to bring meaningful support and involve a more active playstyle – especially in PvE. A buff to basically a passive trait sure makes condi better, but its not a really healthy change.

Kumouta.4985:

It’s insane. Before the patch, i had a bit of a struggle getting to 7k bleeding dmg on a single enemy. Now, i can literally press 2 buttons and do twice as much.

I’m curious how you are doing this, when currently the trait appears to be bugged in game.

Standing in Lion’s Arch, hovering over the trait it reads that it does 3 stacks of bleed on chill.

While I thought that this might have been a typo, I went to the Special Forces Training Area to test. Upon test, this trait still only applies 3 stacks of bleed.

RS 5+4+3 and you have 36-39 stack of bleed on target

Pecar.1236:

RS 6+5+3 and you have 36-39 stack of bleed on target

For how many seconds?

they’re probably gonna throw an ICD at it soon and make it worthless like chilling darkness.

Btw what is meant with “passive trait”? all traits are passive.
Before the deathly chill buff, i had to press about thrice as many buttons to get about 3/4 of what DS 5-4 does now.

Deathly Chill got better, and I find QQ. I don’t understand…

Pecar.1236:

RS 6+5+3 and you have 36-39 stack of bleed on target

RS6? Aren’t there only 5 skills?

Am i missing something?

miss click 5+4+3

Kumouta.4985:

Before the deathly chill buff, i had to press about thrice as many buttons to get about 3/4 of what DS 5-4 does now.

Have you confirmed this in game, or just providing “maths”. I’m showing it bugged in game. It’s only still applying 3 stacks of bleed.

This change affects WvW as well, where it will probably have the biggest impact. An extremely strong buff there.

Fatalyz.7168:

Kumouta.4985:

Before the deathly chill buff, i had to press about thrice as many buttons to get about 3/4 of what DS 5-4 does now.

Have you confirmed this in game, or just providing “maths”. I’m showing it bugged in game. It’s only still applying 3 stacks of bleed.

The trait aplys 3 stacks of bleed every time you chill regardless of the duration of the chill.

Executioners scythe does 4?5? 1s ticks of chill which each apply 3 stacks of bleed over the 4s. Use RS#4 and it procs…9? whirling bolts each applying chill thus 3 more stacsk of bleed each time. Reaching 30+ bleeds is easy from this combo

edit: ICD…

Deathly chill bleed buff is really good. Get your Condi duration up and its a constant 3 stacks all the time. This adds more pressure after ramp up and will increese Condi overall dps

Crinn.7864:

Pecar.1236:

RS 6+5+3 and you have 36-39 stack of bleed on target

For how many seconds?

10 maybe 11 with 100% bleeding duration, this combo have 30 sec CD. Necro is still lowest condi dps class in game.

Lexan.5930:

Deathly chill bleed buff is really good. Get your Condi duration up and its a constant 3 stacks all the time. This adds more pressure after ramp up and will increese Condi overall dps

You have chill only on dagger 4 with trait every 18 sec => +2 bleeding stack on 10 sec (one bleed 136dmg*2=272dmg*10sec=2720dmg/18sec CD = 151DPS and chill novatrait 8 sec CD => 272 DPS +-

This change increase Necromancer weapon DPS in raid maybe for 500-600 DPS.

Combo F1 + 5 + 4 apply maybe 36 stack on bleed = 36/3 = 12*2 = 24*136dmg = 3264*10 = 32640DMG / 30 sec CD = 906 DPS

Totall +1400 DPS. Necro is still condition DMG garbage vs other condi dps class.

Evilek.5690:

Combo F1 + 5 + 4 apply maybe 36 stack on bleed = 36/3 = 12*2 = 24*136dmg = 3264*10 = 32640DMG / 30 sec CD = 906 DPS

This step doesnt make sense. Explain.

Sigmoid.7082:

Evilek.5690:

Combo F1 + 5 + 4 apply maybe 36 stack on bleed = 36/3 = 12*2 = 24*136dmg = 3264*10 = 32640DMG / 30 sec CD = 906 DPS

This step doesnt make sense. Explain.

Before change this train apply only 1 bleeding, right now apply 3. Now you apply 36 stack on F1 + 5 + 4 combo, with old trait only 12 stack.

Evilek.5690:

Sigmoid.7082:

Evilek.5690:

Combo F1 + 5 + 4 apply maybe 36 stack on bleed = 36/3 = 12*2 = 24*136dmg = 3264*10 = 32640DMG / 30 sec CD = 906 DPS

This step doesnt make sense. Explain.

Before change this train apply only 1 bleeding, right now apply 3. Now you apply 36 stack on F1 + 5 + 4 combo, with old trait only 12 stack.

Alacrity and vulnerability?

Is that with or without rune of thorns 6th bonus ? If without then going nightmare/trapper allows you to take sigil of hydromancy instead of agony which is another 4s of chill on 9s cooldown triggered on tapping shroud.

Lets take lazy version of the build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQJArIUKGs4e4QMJGFAGAJAA-TBiHQBaUJozWYAAnAAB8AAIneA6p+DBV+Fk9BIEgi5A-e
With capped 25stacks of might your bleed does 173dmg. Bleed and chill duration capped at 100%, poison and torment at 85%, could be lowered by sinister+toxic focusing crystal but lets focus on most simple version.
Now you have 2 sources of chill outside of rs5, sigil having half of dagger4 cd.
Deathly swarm+sigil of hydromancy+chilling nova is already 11s of chill, before it times out you can use sigil and nova again which is uninterrupted 18s just in time to use dagger4. If you take Quickening thirst trait in blood magic it is even better scenario.
So described above combo is at least 3 applications of chill in short time which sums up with 9stacks of bleed for 9s if done correctly (note that Deathly chill gives 5s of bleed instead of 8 ).
So before out initial bleeding from trait expires that’s 9 stacks of bleed at max from just those 3 procs (we could now use rs2 to provide yet another chill but lets keep it simple). Thats 173dmg * 9stacks * 9s = 14013 (1557 per second). And that is without sigil of geomancy.
Old version of the trait with sigil of agony + rune of thorns untriggered gave us 178dmg and only 2 stacks of it (since the bleeding was 16s and our only chill application outside of shroud was dagger4 on 18s cd, it was possible to trigger deathly chill 2 times from dagger4->chilling nova-> nothing… ->dagger4…)
So 178dmg * 2stacks * 16s = 5696 (356dmg per s) same, without sigil of geomancy.

The difference is huge.
If we include full rotation with dagger4->F1->rs5->rs4 we could apply perma chill.

What do you guys think ?

Does Deathly Chill work in WvW with the new buff?

I am not QQing guys, please. I am happy that necro got a buff, but it did literally nothing to improve our core issues at necro. Still, we provide nearly nothing for groups aside from (now) better than mediocre dps (woop de doo) and still we basically mash few cooldowns we have without a thought. Due to our many sources of chill (Chill Nova, Chilling Darkness, Shivers of Death etc), we dont do anything special to apply chill and thats why I consider Deathly Chill a somewhat passive trait.

As for people confused about RF 5 + 4, first puts an ice field and second is a whirl finisher, so overall it becomes a condi bomb due to Deathly Chill.

Edit: Due to our many sources of chill (Chill Nova, Chilling Darkness, Shivers of Death etc), we dont do anything special to apply chill and thats why I consider Deathly Chill a somewhat passive trait.

Edit 2: OanSur, as far as I have tried and seen Roasted Artichokes do not have a cooldown (%36 chance to chill on crit at night) so they might definitely compete with condi duration food. In addition, Well of Darkness might be worth using with Chilling Darkness now. Sigil of Mischief might be even better than Hydromancy, as it has higher range and applies a free blind with chill.

wonder how many more years it’ll take till necro is viable in raids…

Pregnantman.8259:

Edit 2: OanSur, as far as I have tried and seen Roasted Artichokes do not have a cooldown (%36 chance to chill on crit at night) so they might definitely compete with condi duration food. In addition, Well of Darkness might be worth using with Chilling Darkness now. Sigil of Mischief might be even better than Hydromancy, as it has higher range and applies a free blind with chill.

I was wondering the same thing but:
Chilling darkness has internal cooldown of 3s and it is single target use. So well of darkness isnt really such great option especially when it deals 0 damage. Same goes with sigil of mischief. It can only target 4 enemies (compared to hydromancy 5) and the number of snowballs depends on how many of them are around – facing 1 enemy only=only 1 snowball, which can always miss or be blocked, not to mention that only 1 target will proc chill.

Roasted artichoke is good if you are running content set for nighttime, just like ghost pepper popper. And if you use it instead of pizza you lose 18% condition duration and that is a LOT.

Cecilia.5179:

Does Deathly Chill work in WvW with the new buff?

Yes, wvw counts as Pve for balances.

Lahmia.2193:

Cecilia.5179:

Does Deathly Chill work in WvW with the new buff?

Yes, wvw counts as Pve for balances.

Hmm, do you think its a bug and anet will fix it?

Zero.3871:

Lahmia.2193:

Cecilia.5179:

Does Deathly Chill work in WvW with the new buff?

Yes, wvw counts as Pve for balances.

Hmm, do you think its a bug and anet will fix it?

No, WvW has always counted as pve.

first time, this pve status would have a positive consequence xD

Lahmia.2193:

Zero.3871:

Lahmia.2193:

Cecilia.5179:

Does Deathly Chill work in WvW with the new buff?

Yes, wvw counts as Pve for balances.

Hmm, do you think its a bug and anet will fix it?

No, WvW has always counted as pve.

Incorrect, WvW has its own ruleset. PvE only buffs generally do not apply to WvW. Most significantly, Blurred Frenzy does not get its PvE 100% damage increase, Druids have 15s cooldown on CA instead of 10 and retal is on the same level as PvP retal, instead of being the stronger PvE version.
As such, this is most likely an unintended change.

30k DPS – Condi Reaper

I didn’t make this video but you probably wondering how in raids you can hit all/most of your chilling bolts. You just have to hit your ice field slightly off center, and spin in it to the side of the boss a bit. Not all of the bolts will hit, but most will.

Oh Snapalope.1378:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xGFf92ZzS0

30k DPS – Condi Reaper

I didn’t make this video but you probably wondering how in raids you can hit all/most of your chilling bolts. You just have to hit your ice field slightly off center, and spin in it to the side of the boss a bit. Not all of the bolts will hit, but most will.

This unfortunately isn’t our dps. It uses all buffs and all debuffs on the golem. It’s unrealistic and our dps is nowhere near 30k as condition reapers.

Evilek.5690:

Crinn.7864:

Pecar.1236:

RS 6+5+3 and you have 36-39 stack of bleed on target

For how many seconds?

10 maybe 11 with 100% bleeding duration, this combo have 30 sec CD. Necro is still lowest condi dps class in game.

10-11????? When use RS 5 and start using 4 dont stay near boss go into boss so he take every Chilling bolt what come from you try it with 100% duration have 36-39 stack of bleed for 10s so each 20s got 36-39 bleed stack /in fractals is incredible when 4 necros use it same time then epidemic and in some second you have +150 bleed stack on mobs or in raid when you can use epidemic for boss-mob-boss transfer )

Does this open up really weird builds (example below):

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRArd7YnMbCt2gVbCmbCs3gFcBDaAEAaBxVxu4YMaDMBGBA-TxRAQBhU53NVCCgnAAC3fIiq/EQ9Df4kAQKgFVWB-e

You’d have Chill and therefore 3 bleed stacks from each:
Spinal Shivers
Deathly Swarm
Your Soul Is Mine (Rune of the Reaper + yay lifeforce?)
Spectral Grasp (yay lifeforce?)
Nothing Can Save You (Rune of the Reaper)
Suffer (Rune of the Reaper)

Would the above plus RS5+4+3 (the fear = chill = bleed) potentially be something worthwhile filling in any downtime with Scepter auto/Grasping Dead/etc…?

Yah, I’ve been testing out the change with my full viper necro and with food and such..I’m getting an easy 40+ bleeds with chilling bolts being thrown about…Not bad at all to be honest.

Tested maximizing chill proc with this build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQJArYjM0QzN2dDW3AHOWKGs4eYRMJGFAGAdLpRQIoDA-TBiHQBaUJIBV+JgTAA50DAgHAgzWYII7DQP1fIEgi5A-e
The bleeds are sick! You can easily start the fight by applying 50+ stacks of bleeding and maintaining perma-chill for nova procs.
So you can start with burst, maintain around 45+ stacks if provided with quickness/alacrity/both and when rs5+4 are off cd, burst again. With no minions it reaches 70stacks. And dont get me started on epidemic bouncing.

Fractals T4 are literally kitten d.

NOTES: I was testing it with death magic instead of blood magic, and with Parasitic Contagion instead of Lingering Curse just for self sustain, or rather self immortality, so those numbers could still be increased.

Tested on Large target golem 1kk hp only 25stacks of vulnerability.
Self buffs: 25might, fury, quickness, alacrity, vampiric presence, banner of discipline, banner of strength, empower allies, spotter and grace of the land.
No ranger spirits, no other condis on golem, no buffs from reve etc.
http://imgur.com/a/3EdYa

Most realistic 5-man scenario you can get. And with not-optimized traits.

Cerberus.5864:

Does this open up really weird builds (example below):

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRArd7YnMbCt2gVbCmbCs3gFcBDaAEAaBxVxu4YMaDMBGBA-TxRAQBhU53NVCCgnAAC3fIiq/EQ9Df4kAQKgFVWB-e

You’d have Chill and therefore 3 bleed stacks from each:
Spinal Shivers
Deathly Swarm
Your Soul Is Mine (Rune of the Reaper + yay lifeforce?)
Spectral Grasp (yay lifeforce?)
Nothing Can Save You (Rune of the Reaper)
Suffer (Rune of the Reaper)

Would the above plus RS5+4+3 (the fear = chill = bleed) potentially be something worthwhile filling in any downtime with Scepter auto/Grasping Dead/etc…?

That’s the general idea behind one of my apathetic necro builds. GS, Rune of the Reaper and 6 shouts for full flavor. Incidentally its pretty decent I have to say. Its difficult to test out a lot of combos because the bleeding ramps up so quickly.

I am testing Superior Rune of the Reaper, tonight.

with reaper runes, you can get up to 12 more bleeds than without them. (factoring in that one shout is replaced by BiP for max bleedz)
Bleeding duration or condi dmg increasing runes should still end up with way more bleed dmg.

Any news if going full shouts and bleed duration gear is better than other combos? Like even running thorns or a general all Condi duration 100%?

Rune of the Reaper seems useful, now. I threw the runes on a soldier’s exotic set and puttered around Lake Doric on a power-shout build with just Deathly Chill and watched the bleed count.

Greatsword’s hybrid mode seems legitimate so the shouts get a real dps boost. I recommend giving the runes a try on a viper and/or sinister set for open world at the very least. I know I will. While shouts and their bleeds may not be optimal in boss fights, the AoE becomes good in a crowd. Throw Epidemic on the utility bar for bosses with lots of adds while the shouts provide defence with more damage.

The runes no longer seem like junk.

Lexan.5930:

Any news if going full shouts and bleed duration gear is better than other combos? Like even running thorns or a general all Condi duration 100%?

I was thinking this too. On meta PvE build you can get away with Suffer, YSIM, and CttB, and if you pack Augury of Death in raids you can get extremely fast turnarounds on your shouts. If each shout applies 3 stacks of bleed in an AOE, that could overcome the damage gain from 5 stacks of the Thorns buff. You’d lose a lot of poison duration, though, but in that build you’d probably want nearly all vipers anyway.