Guild Wars 2

The coefficient got reduced by 15% (now 25.5% of condition damage instead of 30%). Base damage is untouched.

Eh, it’s fair.

It’s minor.

(0.255 * Condition Damage) + 202
instead of (0.300 * Condition Damage) + 202

For 1050 Condition damage that’s -47 damage, 1200 Condition damage that’s -54 damage ; for 1600 that’s -72 damage

Bleed is (0.06 * Condition Damage) + 22 ; it’s less than 1s of stack of bleed
Torment is (0.045 * Condition Damage) + 15.9 ; it’s less than 1s of torment
Confusion is (0.035 * Condition Damage) + 10 ; also less than passive damage from 1s confusion if it’s a lower condition damage

Reaper useless now. Rerolled to scrapper.

CutesySylveon.8290:

Reaper useless now. Rerolled to scrapper.

Lol. Can’t tell if this is serious or not. :P

I’m happy. A bigger nerf would have been better.

With how much access Reaper has to Chill, there’s no effort behind keeping it on your target almost 100% of the time. It’s not like you need to juggle skills properly to do it. Pretty much anything you touch them with inflicts it and with enough condition damage it hurt a lot. Maybe not as much as Burn but the uptime with Chill more than makes up for the damage difference.

Probably the only time I’ve ever been happy with a Necro nerf. It’s terribly annoying to fight.

I think they are afraid to nerf it too much tbh. I tend to think the ability to apply it at will is more problematic than anything else, though. It’s almost pointless trying to cleanse it against a reaper because it’s just going to come right back. I play my reaper a lot so I understand how important it is, but the condition is super strong in pvp even without the damage component.

I wonder if it is enough to sway public perception. It is really a minor change. Like described it is only 54~72 damage loss, it will rack up but combined with the other conditions it will result maybe in 1 extra second extra survival.

They are afraid of nerfing it because Bleeding and Poison Condition Necromancer applies don’t do enough burst damage. Deathly Chill and Terror are only two DoTs that don’t require ramp-up time (could maybe include Dhuumfire in here) and Terror is just bad, especially with Reaper and has traits all over the place. Most of your condition damage comes from Chill, because you can re-apply it at full strength without poking somebody with Scepter for 10 seconds just to get bleeds going. It’s absolutely not healthy for the game, but the game has evolved, there are more cleanses, better power damage and general powercreep, so to stay competitive, you just can’t play fair. Arena Net’s decisions.

I said it when Reaper was revealed, before that and I will say it again – Deathly Chill should punish chilled foes for cleansing conditions, same like Unstable Affliction/Vampiric Touch in WoW does.

I see ticking 1k dmg a second in unacceptable… meanwhile thieves are AAing for 20k dps….

If done right a full cannon theif can burst anyone down to death before they can say mamma mia you have to habe reflexes of an eagle and experiance to this attack to survive….even then thief will escape…..and try again

The nerf is not too onerous.

Necromancer’s design makes balancing conditions tricky because it is dependent on soft CC as much as it is on Shroud.

At least Anet is still applying the shave philosophy to some things.

Stop nerfing for the sake of PvP! Why can’t they just admit it would be better for everyone involved if they just separated the kitten ed skills? So sick of this kitten and no doubt we’ll see more as this next season of PvP rolls on.

I’m really nervous that condi Necros will be back to pre-HOT state due to all the complaining.

Also agree with Vlad – they need to split PvP, PvE & WvW balancing.

Just look at the effect the stability changes had in WvW.

Vlad Morbius.1759:

Stop nerfing for the sake of PvP! Why can’t they just admit it would be better for everyone involved if they just separated the kitten ed skills? So sick of this kitten and no doubt we’ll see more as this next season of PvP rolls on.

I agree, All Skills not just Necromancers, But other Professions needs to be split into 2 copies for each mode.

So changes from 1 Mode won’t effect the others.

PVE mobs and PVP players don’t act the same. Trying to balance effectiveness/damage across two different play platforms is just asking for trouble. You already can’t play PVP with the same gear from PVE, might as well just isolate the mode completely.

Infusion.7149:

It’s minor.

(0.255 * Condition Damage) + 202
instead of (0.300 * Condition Damage) + 202

For 1050 Condition damage that’s -47 damage, 1200 Condition damage that’s -54 damage ; for 1600 that’s -72 damage

Bleed is (0.06 * Condition Damage) + 22 ; it’s less than 1s of stack of bleed
Torment is (0.045 * Condition Damage) + 15.9 ; it’s less than 1s of torment
Confusion is (0.035 * Condition Damage) + 10 ; also less than passive damage from 1s confusion if it’s a lower condition damage

Thanks for doing this!
Really goes to show how minor this change was. I think this change was more to stop all the QQ on the PvP forums.
It’s still a very good trait.

Yeah i dont understand why this nerf was necessary.

maybe they are gonna make it so that the damage still ticks even if someone else’s non-damaging chill stacks over it?

While I do agree that this change is quite minor and that it’s much needed in terms of pvp where the ticks have a greater effect, I still do find myself a little upset with the change as someone who also does condi necro in pve. Sure you only loose a little bit of dps but in pve (raids in particular) where the encounters take longer and where condi damage does add up and those little ticks can add up to larger amounts of damage, I feel like this nerf is an unnecessary shot in the foot towards pve condi necro. While I’m not saying condi necro doesn’t have competitive dps, which it does in some sense, it largerly relies on an awkward reliance on adds spawning and a healer maintaining your jagged horrors, and when you take that away and now in addition this chill damage nerf, i just can’t find myself to say that I’m completely ok with it. I’ll live with it but it’s just another instance where anet has to balance something for one game mode, and it just unnecessarily affects the other game mode in a negative way when it wasn’t even in a problem there from the start.

Well imo I feel reaper is not a good idea for condi pve, I mean it’s your game, play how you want but other classes, like say… thief, warrior, and engi can stack bleeds/burns/poison better then nec, and on a continuous basis.

Thief = bleed stacks, and even torment
Warrior = burn/bleed stacks, torment, and some confusion
Engineer=bleed/burn/poison, and confusion for the lulz

DC does not seem to have been meant to be a primary source of condition damage, unlike scepter and the Curses specialization.

It is more of a nod to hybrid builds; perhaps to compensate for the loss of damage from going sinister instead of berserker.

Running Curses and Reaper should be for opponents where power-crit builds are less effective. It is nice to have supplemental condition damage from something not a scepter.

Then they should consider giving it damage that scales on power. It could have split scaling. Or it could have a separate direct damage component. Or it could just scale on power instead of condi damage.

Whether that really was their intention or not. The nerf is inconsequential and makes no sense. We should be getting buffs in areas we suffer not silly nerfs which dont make any real difference to the gamemode the nerf was obviously directed at.

spoj.9672:

Then they should consider giving it damage that scales on power. It could have split scaling. Or it could have a separate direct damage component. Or it could just scale on power instead of condi damage.

Whether that really was their intention or not. The nerf is inconsequential and makes no sense. We should be getting buffs in areas we suffer not silly nerfs which dont make any real difference to the gamemode the nerf was obviously directed at.

conditon scaling on power lol then you will se all power necro with free 1.2k chill damage ticks

Might make power reaper actually slightly more competative in PvE again. Whats the problem?

Brokensunday.4098:

conditon scaling on power lol then you will se all power necro with free 1.2k chill damage ticks

More like 500 ticks, it hits for about 1.1k with 25 might and 25 vulnerability which you almost never see in PvP (where all the complaints are from).

Spoj, you got me thinking that maybe a good trait for Necromancer in Curses would be to spread a condition damage buff to allies in close proximity. The Necro could not buff itself but could accept the buff from another necromancer. One stack max. Perhaps tie the buff to a weapon – slightly similar to Vampiric Aura but both stronger and more limited.

That, or something similar, could work for both PvE and PvP. It rewards allies for Necromancer sacrificing dps for a sort of dark blessing.

Brokensunday.4098:

spoj.9672:

Then they should consider giving it damage that scales on power. It could have split scaling. Or it could have a separate direct damage component. Or it could just scale on power instead of condi damage.

Whether that really was their intention or not. The nerf is inconsequential and makes no sense. We should be getting buffs in areas we suffer not silly nerfs which dont make any real difference to the gamemode the nerf was obviously directed at.

conditon scaling on power lol then you will se all power necro with free 1.2k chill damage ticks

Yea cause it’s chill that’s killing everyone, not the 10 stacks of poison, the 12 stacks of bleed, the occasional 4 stacks of burn, and those insignificant 1.2k terror ticks.

spoj.9672:

Then they should consider giving it damage that scales on power. It could have split scaling. Or it could have a separate direct damage component. Or it could just scale on power instead of condi damage.

Whether that really was their intention or not. The nerf is inconsequential and makes no sense. We should be getting buffs in areas we suffer not silly nerfs which dont make any real difference to the gamemode the nerf was obviously directed at.

Wouldn’t make much a difference. Everyone runs Mercenary’s anyway which has equal power and condition damage. That would only shorten the list of viable PvP builds. Wouldn’t help Power Reaper, because it’s inferior in many other ways. In PvE, I guess you would still use Reaper’s Onslaught.

Crimson Shi.5047:

Brokensunday.4098:

spoj.9672:

Then they should consider giving it damage that scales on power. It could have split scaling. Or it could have a separate direct damage component. Or it could just scale on power instead of condi damage.

Whether that really was their intention or not. The nerf is inconsequential and makes no sense. We should be getting buffs in areas we suffer not silly nerfs which dont make any real difference to the gamemode the nerf was obviously directed at.

conditon scaling on power lol then you will se all power necro with free 1.2k chill damage ticks

Yea cause it’s chill that’s killing everyone, not the 10 stacks of poison, the 12 stacks of bleed, the occasional 4 stacks of burn, and those insignificant 1.2k terror ticks.

Yes, it’s mostly Chill in PvP. Check your logs.

Also, if someone runs Terror he either plays build you don’t find on metabattle (which is very rare and I can name such Necromancers) or is handicapping himself. Or both.

No it’s not mostly chill….wtf … lol chill damage is just icing on the cake. Also why wouldn’t he run terror since fear also adds chill duration, if you corrupt their stab that’s a free 1.2 tick right there.

Rym.1469:

Wouldn’t make much a difference. Everyone runs Mercenary’s anyway which has equal power and condition damage. That would only shorten the list of viable PvP builds. Wouldn’t help Power Reaper, because it’s inferior in many other ways. In PvE, I guess you would still use Reaper’s Onslaught.

Except you dont use Reaper Onslaught in PvE even now. Deathly Chill is already the best dps option simply because camping shroud is not viable for optimal dps. And a bit of extra damage on chill is always beneficial. So it would help PvE. Not enough to fix power reaper in PvE. But it would still be a small step to improving it.

Crimson Shi.5047:

No it’s not mostly chill….wtf … lol chill damage is just icing on the cake. Also why wouldn’t he run terror since fear also adds chill duration, if you corrupt their stab that’s a free 1.2 tick right there.

Because Stability is more valuable than Fear/Terror. Therefore the only real access Reaper has to Fear is via corrupting or Staff #5. It’s not worth it to take Terror as a Reaper.

And yes it is definitely mostly Chill. The uptime is absolutely ridiculous. You can keep Chill on someone like 80% of the time and all that time it’s doing damage. Deathly Chill is extremely good and although I very much love the concept of it and was super excited for it when it was announced… I still think it needs to be nerfed even more. It’s just way too brain dead and every time I fight a condition Reaper I realize how mindless it is.

It is a meh fair nerf….for PvP and WvW only.

My only complaint is that it is not helping Necromancers out in PvE where their condi damage is already lacking without gimmicks and power builds being quite weak still.

their balancing needs to be separate for the 3 game modes or else they wont get so far with reaching balance.

Crimson Shi.5047:

No it’s not mostly chill….wtf … lol chill damage is just icing on the cake. Also why wouldn’t he run terror since fear also adds chill duration, if you corrupt their stab that’s a free 1.2 tick right there.

Check your combat log and the info tag when you’re dead, you’ll see Chill as the top skill 90% of time

Chill is a DoT like poison and bleed. If a player ignores its small dps long enough, it becomes a large total.

If chill is what players are dying to, that implies Necromancer’s other skills are weaker. It also implies the player took too long in the fight against the Necro.

Anchoku.8142:

If chill is what players are dying to, that implies Necromancer’s other skills are weaker. It also implies the player took too long in the fight against the Necro.

It’s not that the skills are weaker, chill investment is just that high in reaper builds.

So people keep saying chill isn’t OP, it is fine where it is, etc etc.

It is a condition with rapid reapplication, sigils that apply it on hit/swap, causes slower movement, and causes longer CD on skills.

Due to its rapid reapplication by the time you use 3~4 condition removals you will still end being chilled, having the cooldowns of your removals being turned from 20s to 33s, and taking 600+ dps while being unable to disengage (or barely move for that matter). In a single trait they increased the damage potential of necromancer by well over 40%.

It would have been much more acceptable if the damage was in the 300dps range (which is equivalent to about 4 bleed stacks). Just the sheer amount of damage it currently does with the effects is beyond insane. Another option would be to make chill no longer apply the CD or movement impairment in exchange for damage. My point is both at once is entirely too broken.

I also agree that they need to undo the nerf for PvE and seperate the trait for PvE & PvP.
Edit: To continue on the PvE side, a condition ranger would even out preform necromancer even before the chill nerf, mostly due to high amount of fire fields and ability to cause 40+ bleed ticks alone. Entirely uneeded change and I wish to see it reverted (and I don’t even play necro outside PvP or WvW).

Allison, Deathly Chill is only used in hybrid builds with lower crit damage than power builds, or in condition damage builds with scepter as the bulk of the dps.

Compare that to condition damage in other professions using bleeds, poisons, burning, and confusion.

Necromancer was always handicapped for condi damage because duration extenders for DoTs also helped Necro’s soft CC conditions.

Deathly Chill could be changed to scale more with the condition damage stat but I do not think it is too powerful. It should be a little more than crit bonus damage above the 50 per cent base because of cleansing.

I trust the dev’s are watching the stat trades.

The simple fact of the matter is necro is getting a condi that does three different things, all of which are extremely powerful. Your way of justifying necro having chill the way it is that the rest of your condition application is terrible. The truth of the matter they didn’t fix anything by giving necro such an overpowered trait, but simply applied a band aid (usual anet tactic) instead of fixing the core of necro condition application.

If you honestly think chill damage is better solution than actually fixing core necro then I nothing more to say to you. Core necro is rather terrible due to fact reaper is just a flat upgrade to almost any necro build. Honestly necro has bee in a very sorry state for quite a long time. All reaper brought necro was a trait line your basically forced to take no matter what just due to it being such a huge upgrade.

Also as a side note, name more than two necromancers in ranked who are running reaper and don’t run a hybrid build simply because chill is so broken and it is not worth using anything else as a reaper.

Consider that bleeds and poisons are mostly confined to a single weapon, burning and Terror are positioned for use in a very narrow range of builds, and Corruptions are no better.

Instead of adding any of those DoT conditions to Reaper, or greatsword, a new chill DoT was created to limit synergy with the current conditions. That is how difficult Necromancer is to balance.

Pretty much, I mean chill does its thing with or without the trait. But in regards to condi wars Nec are the answer not because of the constant dots of condition they can inflict. But because any class who give them those dots will get it back twicefold.

Had a match a while back where a condi ranger, and a condi warr were trying to kill me. They stacked upwards 34 bleed intensity. I gave it back. They called me OP at how much bleeds I could stack. I reminded them, that those 30 bleeds where theirs, and I didn’t want such a ….lovely gift.. so I returned it.

The other condition intensity comes from a nec corrupting boons. Left to their own devices, with no boon corruption. Chill/Terror/Fire damage are rather lacking compared to other classes abilities to stack condi intensity. But you don’t see it this meta cause reapers are the thing, and everyone SHOULD know that a nec can eat conditions for a huge heal burst, or can simply give them back. Ideally to a non nec class, who can’t return them again.

where do you guys see this nerf message?
I checked the forum updates and didn’t see it. I checked dulfy also and didnt see it =/

that said, I do think that chill needs to be nerfed slightly. but just slightly. because well…I’m running a chill build and its not fun to win everything without breaking a sweat

EremiteAngel.9765:

where do you guys see this nerf message?
I checked the forum updates and didn’t see it. I checked dulfy also and didnt see it =/

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-February-23-2016/6004136

last lines

that said, I do think that chill needs to be nerfed slightly. but just slightly. because well…I’m running a chill build and its not fun to win everything without breaking a sweat

Well you would have better losing chances if most players didn’t run the amount of condi cleanse of a pre hot engi.

So is reaper still good?