Guild Wars 2

What makes this spell do that much damage my god?

4 hits almost 20k damage!

Its on an elite which leaves you very vulnerable?

I don’t have anything that hits even for 4k once!

I think you will find you do. What class are you?

Warrior, closest I got is Rampage I might get 3 / 2k hits off before you run away?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Eviscerate
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Final_Thrust
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rush
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcing_Slice
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Triple_Chop (final hit)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcing_Arrow
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kill_Shot

And thats ignoring your other skills which do very good damage but arent single high coefficient hits.

you are melee. you should never be able to hit as much as a vulnerable spell caster especially like an elite. also you can counter/avoid lich. just have to git good and you have good chance.

Rolisteel.1375:

you are melee. you should never be able to hit as much as a vulnerable spell caster

If only that was true…

Shieldbash.5304:

Warrior, closest I got is Rampage I might get 3 / 2k hits off before you run away?

The only upside to Lich is the ranged 5-target cleave, everything else is better on Rampage.

Comparing a Warrior burst skill that hits for maybe 6k to being hit for 18k in 3 seconds seems moot. I can do maybe 8-9k damage if you stand their.

Deathly claws hits once every 1.1 seconds. Its not as reliable to hit as it seems. It can be countered heavily by reflects. Its on a 180 second elite cooldown which causes the necro to lose all defence.

Whereas those burst skills are free skills that can be cast for mucher high burst than a single deathly claw. And they can be used frequently. Besides your class has an abundance of other tools. Its not forced into a glass nuker like the necro is.

Rampage has a CC on every move, so expecting the same damage as lich plus CC is kinda wrong. That said rampage still does good damage.

Lich is kinda melee. The projectiles are really unreliable above ~700 range. That is why most necros run in your face when popping it(to reduce projectile travel time).

If you want a high damage build on warrior then play killshot. To hit high numbers you have to actually give up something. Like defense.

Shieldbash.5304:

I don’t have anything that hits even for 4k once!

I’ve hit 6k on final thrust with a shoutbow build. You must be doing something wrong if this is true. Plus you’re likely comparing a glass ranged elite to your tanky build.

Shieldbash.5304:

Warrior, closest I got is Rampage I might get 3 / 2k hits off before you run away?

If you play in full PVT ofcourse you will hit garbage.

I’ll leave this here.

Watch any of that dudes videos. Warrior damage is disgusting. I’ve hit 17k 100b and 13k evis in sPvP this week and i barely play warrior.

Rampage also hits around 5-6k as glasscannon v glasscannon.

shhhhh nobody tell him that 4,500 is actually really low for deathly claws

Shieldbash.5304:

Warrior, closest I got is Rampage I might get 3 / 2k hits off before you run away?

y’know, i was going to take you seriously, then you said you were a warrior player. i’d like you to think for a moment about how much more time it takes to be good at playing necromancer compared to how much time it takes to be good at playing warrior.
Warrior: hour tops
necromancer: i’m still learning almost two years later

Honestly, I’ve always felt that Lich Form should be rebalanced anyway, but not because it’s “too strong” or whatever. Elites on 3 minute cooldowns should be very strong, but they should also require a lot more skill to be that strong than Lich Form currently does.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Honestly, I’ve always felt that Lich Form should be rebalanced anyway, but not because it’s “too strong” or whatever. Elites on 3 minute cooldowns should be very strong, but they should also require a lot more skill to be that strong than Lich Form currently does.

i took lich off my bar months ago, i see it as more of a ‘hi i’m here, focus me now’

Rising Dusk.2408:

Honestly, I’ve always felt that Lich Form should be rebalanced anyway, but not because it’s “too strong” or whatever. Elites on 3 minute cooldowns should be very strong, but they should also require a lot more skill to be that strong than Lich Form currently does.

Not every skill should have “high” mechanical skill to use. Almost every Elite in the game is less an issue of mechanical skill and more knowledge and decision making, which is absolutely in line with MMORPG combat. Artificially increasing Lich Form’s “skill”, which probably isn’t even that realistic anyway with 5 skills, does nothing to make it a better elite. Right now Lich takes skill in knowing when to use it, who to target, how long to stay in it, and other decisions like that, instead of mechanical skill.

All it needs is to have all 5 skills have actual meaningful use cases, which just isn’t the case right now.

Lich got nerfed with the stability change and, before that, 1/3 reduction in active time. Lich really is delicate despite the stats. CC is weak, claws are dodgeable, and everything takes so long to cast.

Bhawb.7408:

Not every skill should have “high” mechanical skill to use. Almost every Elite in the game is less an issue of mechanical skill and more knowledge and decision making, which is absolutely in line with MMORPG combat. Artificially increasing Lich Form’s “skill”, which probably isn’t even that realistic anyway with 5 skills, does nothing to make it a better elite. Right now Lich takes skill in knowing when to use it, who to target, how long to stay in it, and other decisions like that, instead of mechanical skill.

All it needs is to have all 5 skills have actual meaningful use cases, which just isn’t the case right now.

I’m not saying it needs a complex rotation or anything, but 1111111 is not even remotely mechanically skillful play regardless of its lack of durability or recent changes it’s suffered. I would vastly prefer if the 1 took a significant reduction in DPS and the 2, 3, 4, and 5 gained huge DPS buffs to encourage smarter use of all of the skills. It’s about as skillful right now as Turret Engi, insofar as of course a smart Engi can place Turrets intelligently so they can hit things but won’t be cleaved down, but all things considered it’s still very mindless.

You say that you think it’d be artificially increasing its “skill”, but I think if there were more opportunities for skillshots and more play/counterplay to using all of its skills, it definitely wouldn’t be artificial.

Oh, what I would give for skills 2-5 not to suck. They are weak, useless in PvE, and take too long to cast. Cool downs are funny in that they still reflect a 30 s elite.

Marked for death should give 20+ s vulnerability, chilling wind instant cast and change the chill to an ice block, mark of horror jagged rodents should not decay over time, and grim specter should be a pulsing field like WoC and WoP combined.

The other skills have no point in adding damage to, they are entirely utility based right now, adding damage to them either forces the entire weapon set to have a bunch of really badly designed skills (forced to use them for damage despite them being utility skills), or reworking the entire set of skills to be damage. All you do is make it so that you need to press a few different skills to reach max damage, not to mention the fact that it would require a net buff in Lich’s total possible damage output (because skillshots can be missed) or end up as a nerf.

If you want to make Lich more skillful, give people a reason to press anything other than 1. This doesn’t mean you have to spread out the damage, but give the other skills meaningful utility so they actually have a reason to be cast.

it’s just require as much skill as any other elites if not more. if you think its just about 1111 that kills everything easy then you are a dead Lich already.

If they change it to require more skill without increasing its survivability i change it for plague anyday

Bhawb.7408:

If you want to make Lich more skillful, give people a reason to press anything other than 1. This doesn’t mean you have to spread out the damage, but give the other skills meaningful utility so they actually have a reason to be cast.

That’s a fine alternative as well. I still think the 1 does too much damage compared to even the potential value of the rest of the skills. If it maintains its damage level, you’d have to make the other four skills bloody incredible to make them worth the wasted cast time. It’s pretty much impossible to argue with the ability to three-shot a MediGuard or something comparable given the design of the skills right now. It’s even worse in PvE where the other utilities are utter garbage in their current incarnation.

Rolisteel.1375:

If they change it to require more skill without increasing its survivability i change it for plague anyday

That’s fine, of course. Better players than you will make use of its added utility and have no trouble with any mechanical demands placed on them, so it works out for everyone.

The issue is the other skills worth and the fact that they have stupid cast times. The damage/utility of the 2-5 skills would not be so bad if they had shorter cast times and aftercasts.

the skill # 3 and 5 are very useful for the lich
5 remove all condition from allies and yourself that hit hits and does comparable damage
3 knock backs in a cone
i use to take lich solely for fighting theives when they use shadow refuge pop lich #3 boom outside sr then dead

skill 3 could use some improvement however
a good start would to increase the knockback distance to 600

The real skill around lich is knowing when to use it, who to pressure with it, when to swap targets, etc. I wish it had a decent #2 skill, but I think in order to get that you’d need to nerf deathly claws.

The 3 is okay at best. Its range is shorter than Wail of Doom and it’s not even unblockable. Pretty much the only time it’s useful is to prevent someone stomping/ressing or if there is a major spell being cast. Otherwise, you’re better off autoattacking for ~6k piercing damage.

The 5 is useful, but has a prohibitive casting time and is also easy to dodge.

Shieldbash.5304:

Comparing a Warrior burst skill that hits for maybe 6k to being hit for 18k in 3 seconds seems moot. I can do maybe 8-9k damage if you stand their.

You can’t daggerstorm/reflect eviscerate or earthshaker or backstab can you.

You can’t side step backstab or eviscerate, can you.

You can heal while using those, unlike Lich, can you.

You can use defensive utility skills while using those, can you.

Yeah, I thought so. So please take the lich elite whine somewhere else.

+1

Rising Dusk.2408:

The 3 is okay at best. Its range is shorter than Wail of Doom and it’s not even unblockable. Pretty much the only time it’s useful is to prevent someone stomping/ressing or if there is a major spell being cast. Otherwise, you’re better off autoattacking for ~6k piercing damage.

The 5 is useful, but has a prohibitive casting time and is also easy to dodge.

I agree, fwiw.

Skills 2-5 do paltry amounts of damage and are all incredibly different. Making them good enough to use would definitely reduce the overall damage versus the typical 1111111.

2’s vulnerability is too short, way too short, for having a cool down and cast time so much longer than just the claws. Vulnerability is mostly useless in PvE but, if it were super long, it may find a place… barely.

The tiny push-back of 3 and short chill is even more lame than number 2 and why on Earth is the cool down so long on a 20 second elite if the pushback is tiny, with no stun, and the chill is a few seconds?

The undead gerbils on 4 just chase players around, never quite able to keep up, or are wiped by an AoE in PvE. They are designed for PvE but do not have the toughness to withstand boss actions. Also, they apply bleed, which often hits the cap in PvE. Maybe if they were a bunch of mini bone minions…

The boon strip on 5 would be nice if it did not take so long to perform or be so easy to dodge. With only 20 seconds, it is easy to duck the huge tells on Lich and almost as easy to dodge the claw.

Lightsbane.9012:

Shieldbash.5304:

Warrior, closest I got is Rampage I might get 3 / 2k hits off before you run away?

y’know, i was going to take you seriously, then you said you were a warrior player. i’d like you to think for a moment about how much more time it takes to be good at playing necromancer compared to how much time it takes to be good at playing warrior.
Warrior: hour tops
necromancer: i’m still learning almost two years later

Clicking on Lichform is hard?

Dealing with lich form is hard?

Slow moving projectile, nice when it gets some hits but seems to miss a ton. It does hit very hard however. Thats the benefit of lich form, you give up all your other abilities for a very hard hitting autoattack for 30 sec.

Lich form works best when you’re not fighting 1vX, but when you +1 a fight and can get a couple attack off before people notice you’re there.