Guild Wars 2

This trait has a lot of potential and can make spending points into Blood Magic worth something… but, why the heal is so laughable?

I think it should heal for at least 2k base, considering that Death Shroud is on 10s cooldown and because of the extremely high health pool of Necros.

This would be an very good and needed boost to Necromancer’s survivability, which is what he’s lacking, right?

Also, why you can’t be healed in Death Shroud?
It really hampers the whole Blood Magic traitline, because it collides with the main defensive mechanic of the Necro.

Wait, necromancer got a lack of survivability ? Right we aren’t survival as the guardian, but it not our job too…

I think this trait is just totally useless compared to the other trait you can choose, even with a 2k base heal. Ive got a healing build and i think they need to change it because you would need the old 50% faster death shroud cooldown to make this trait worth it.

Towelie.4637:

Wait, necromancer got a lack of survivability ? Right we aren’t survival as the guardian, but it not our job too…

I think this trait is just totally useless compared to the other trait you can choose, even with a 2k base heal. Ive got a healing build and i think they need to change it because you would need the old 50% faster death shroud cooldown to make this trait worth it.

Necromancers have an huge lack of survivability.
Devs also ammitted that, if I’m not wrong.

I think that 2k AoE heal, also without the 50% Death Shroud recharge, will make this trait way more attractive. 2k extra heals is extremely useful, expecially when you pop DS for defensive purposes.

sorrow.2364:

Also, why you can’t be healed in Death Shroud?
It really hampers the whole Blood Magic traitline, because it collides with the main defensive mechanic of the Necro.

They answered this in the SotG. Long story short, Necros could heal in DS during BWE#2 and become completely unkillable tank monsters, able to live through 4 or 5 people subjecting them to extreme focus fire. It sounds like they’re contemplating giving us healing while shrouded back in some way, but that’s speculation on my part.

With the siphoning heal i heal 45 per hit, combine to #2 with dague 371 + 45, + 281 with the permanent regeneration = 697 heal /seconde ( but we lack of survivability ). and with the staff if you hit 5 target you win 45 × 5 = 225heal/hit + 281 regen = 500heal/seconde on your staff. And + all that we got an awesome death shroud !

Im sorry but no lack of survivability here.

Towelie.4637:

With the siphoning heal i heal 45 per hit, combine to #2 with dague 371 + 45, + 281 with the permanent regeneration = 697 heal /seconde ( but we lack of survivability ). and with the staff if you hit 5 target you win 45 × 5 = 225heal/hit + 281 regen = 500heal/seconde on your staff. And + all that we got an awesome death shroud !

Im sorry but no lack of survivability here.

We have no damage mitigation.
We eat all the damage as it comes. No vigor, no blocking, no invulnerabilities, no evades.

Those heals are nothing when you compare that with, let’s say, elementalist.
Without considering that Elementalist has access to vigor, blocks, invulnerabilities, evades and a lot of regen too, if you just bring the Signet of Restoration you get healed for ~168 in PvP or 200+ in PvE per skill cast. You don’t even need the enemies to perfectly align to get those 500 heal per second. Keep in mind that an Elementalist is capable to cast even more than 2 skills per second.

Yeah, we have Death Shroud, but it completely wipes away your utilities (and stunbreakers), heals and condition removals. It doesn’t work as good as invulnerabilities/blocks/evades but it pretty much last as much.

So yep, we definitely lack survivability.

Towelie.4637:

With the siphoning heal i heal 45 per hit, combine to #2 with dague 371 + 45, + 281 with the permanent regeneration = 697 heal /seconde ( but we lack of survivability ). and with the staff if you hit 5 target you win 45 × 5 = 225heal/hit + 281 regen = 500heal/seconde on your staff. And + all that we got an awesome death shroud !

Im sorry but no lack of survivability here.

The thing about those numbers is: dagger 2 has a cooldown and when it is on cooldown your healing per second drops by more than 50%. Also it has a pretty long channel duration, so it is easy to interrupt and hard to maintain (you don’t want to continue that channel when some big hits are incoming). Apart from that dagger2 healing doesn’t scale with number of foes, which makes it even worse.
Also your shiny regen doesn’t do anything for you, when you use your class mechanic. The same is true for Well of Blood, which is more or less the epitome of blood magic (heals and is a well).
Healing per hit is way too weak and deathly invigoration was already a bad trait when DS cd could be traited to 5 secs. It needs 1400 healing power to be around an 800ish heal and is coupled with skill delay thanks to leaving deathshroud.
Also, if you get enough healing power to bring it up to 800 your offense is trash and your healing capabilites are still mediocre since they require your allies to group up and stand still(WoB, DI, MoB). And since this game is loaded with aoe this makes healing necro just so underwhelming.

@Sorrow:2k base is way too much if you look at similar traits from other classes. But still, the numbers of DI could probably be doubled without making it too strong.If it would sit at around 1600 heal every 7s(heavy traiting) by investing 1400 HPow i think it would be a good trait.
But something has to be done about the horrible vampiric line. It would be my go to specc if it wouldn’t scream “ignore until implemented”.

Bellamy.9860:

@Sorrow:2k base is way too much if you look at similar traits from other classes. But still, the numbers of DI could probably be doubled without making it too strong.If it would sit at around 1600 heal every 7s(heavy traiting) by investing 1400 HPow i think it would be a good trait.
But something has to be done about the horrible vampiric line. It would be my go to specc if it wouldn’t scream “ignore until implemented”.

2k in PvE isn’t that much.
I agree that in PvP it is too much, but keep in mind that this would be the only real heal Necro has.

Take, for instance, Selfless Daring of Guardian.
It heals for 129 base + 1*healing power, which means 1k+ with enough healing power on EACH DODGE, which can be used way more often compared to Death Shroud. And it isn’t even the only heal Guardian have access to.

What about Healing Ripple of elementalist?
It’s 1.3k + 1*healing power when attuning to water.
We all know how often can a 30-arcana Elementalist attune to water. We aren’t even considering the huge amount of heals Elementalist has by base.

There is also Vigorous Shouts of Warrior.
It is 1.192 base + 0.8*healing, which can easily go over 2k heals per shout casted. 2 shout (FGJ and Shake It Off) are enough to heal quite much.

So, after all, 2k on leaving Death Shroud isn’t that OP.

Those examples are what i had in mind too, but if they ever decide to “fix” bloodmagic(and i still have hope), they look at every other source of healing available to the necro.
Besides Deathly invigoration there still is Transfusion, Mark of Blood and Well of Blood for AoE heals and vampiric and potentially vamp prec and vamp rit for self heals.
Adding a 2k base heal, which might or might not scale efficiently with healing power, to these existing heals is likely to be a bit over the top.

Bellamy.9860:

Those examples are what i had in mind too, but if they ever decide to “fix” bloodmagic(and i still have hope), they look at every other source of healing available to the necro.
Besides Deathly invigoration there still is Transfusion, Mark of Blood and Well of Blood for AoE heals and vampiric and potentially vamp prec and vamp rit for self heals.
Mixing a 2k base heal, which might or might not scale efficiently with healing power, is likely to be a bit over the top.

Transfusion does not heal the caster, which is why this skill isn’t that worthy.

Excluding the hypothetical new Deathly Invigoration, the other heals Necromancer have beside the main healing skills (slot 6) is a couple of HP given by vampiric, Regen and the slow Life Siphon. Period.

If you do the math, other profession would still have better healing capabilities even after the hypothetical Deathly Invigoration buff.
Keep in mind that Necromancer is still a damage sponge. It isn’t like the Guardiang (block-block-invulnerable-block) or the Elementalist (evade-block-invulnerable-evade).

I’d rather see the whole traitline getting a rework than just doing patch work fixes.

Bellamy.9860:

I’d rather see the whole traitline getting a rework than just doing patch work fixes.

I’d like to see the same too, but it’s probably too much to ask a whole rework of the traitline since we are waiting months without a real change.

I hoped for a substantial buff to Blood Magic in the latest patch, but, sadly, I’ve seen only 6 HP more from vampiric.

Just to let you know, if you guys have a problem with the incoming damage, you can have almost a permanent retaliation with enormous damage with the axe and death shroud.
And for the condition there shouldn’t be any problem if you use Melandru rune.

For the healing mod with the healing skill use at like 6condition give 11’532heal/clear condition and with the trait it give 5sec of retaliation. ( You have to admit that for a 25sec cooldown it a pretty impressive skill )

Yes we cant really avoid damage directly without a retaliation mod, but we got a lot of chill without any compromise ( which is really useful by the way ) , a lot of fear without so many compromise, a “second life bar” with op skill in it, we are the best for clearing condition and removing boon.

If you choose to be a Condimancer then yes you gonna have a real lack of survivability due to all the sacrifice you had to do. Great damage but lack of survivability and you cant avoid any damage and you almost have no heal really effective.

Towelie.4637:

Just to let you know, if you guys have a problem with the incoming damage, you can have almost a permanent retaliation with enormous damage with the axe and death shroud.
And for the condition there shouldn’t be any problem if you use Melandru rune.

For the healing mod with the healing skill use at like 6condition give 11’532heal/clear condition and with the trait it give 5sec of retaliation. ( You have to admit that for a 25sec cooldown it a pretty impressive skill )

Yes we cant really avoid damage directly without a retaliation mod, but we got a lot of chill without any compromise ( which is really useful by the way ) , a lot of fear without so many compromise, a “second life bar” with op skill in it, we are the best for clearing condition and removing boon.

If you choose to be a Condimancer then yes you gonna have a real lack of survivability due to all the sacrifice you had to do. Great damage but lack of survivability and you cant avoid any damage and you almost have no heal really effective.

Heals are effective, yes, but they are balanced around the higher health pool of Necromancers.

Take for instance a Guardian. His main heals are way more effective, despite the fact that they don’t remove conditions. Why? Because Guardian has lower health pool but with way more ways to defend their HP.
Same can be said about Elementalist or Thief (Shadow Renjuvenation healing would be horribly bad on a Necromancer).

So, the main issue isn’t the lacking of HP pool, which as you may notice isn’t a real problem when considering survivability (two of the most survivable class have the lowest HP pool in the game), but it is the lack of damage mitigation abilities.

Death Shroud, in fact, isn’t a real damage mitigation.
It would be a real damage mitigation if you automatically gained stability while in Death Shroud, you can’t got conditions applied while in Death Shroud (or all the conditions applied in DS are removed after you go out) and if you’re capable to heal out while in Death Shroud.

In fact, in the right moment you enter in Death Shroud you:
- Can’t revive your allies.
- Can’t stomp
- Can’t heal yourself and your allies (making the Blood Magic traitline completely useless)
- Have no access to stunbreakers (yeah, please, CC me like a kitten)
- Have no access to damage cancelling skills (eat all the condition skills! Yay! So you’re dead once you go out from DS)
- Can’t remove conditions (see above)

So, how can be considered an OP defensive mechanic?
I think even the 300 extra armor of Warrior and Guardian is a way stronger defensive mechanic.

i agree 200-300 heal is usless also no healing in DS is ok but regen boon should work while in it

Just as a note, you can revive/stomp in DS but only if you hit the DS key and then F straight after, it will work but you gotta be quick. Have a good discussion o/

Tobbygnome.6793:

Just as a note, you can revive/stomp in DS but only if you hit the DS key and then F straight after, it will work but you gotta be quick. Have a good discussion o/

It is a bug, probably unintended.
I think we should keep bug abusing out of the topic.

Retaliation is an offensive boon, don’t know why you bring it in a discussion about healing. It adds nothing to survivability but it rather adds pressure. Following that logic you can argue that getting Dhuumfire or Terror is a good choice if you “have a problem with the incoming damage”.
The better option would be to point out Weakening shroud, which is a pretty good choice for pbaoe weakness(and thus reducing dmg leading to more effective healing) and adds good dmg in condi builds.
Chill is great for attrition fights but as it is right now, necro is pretty much an all out, “slow burst” class. Recovery is still miles behind the prominent attrition builds and that is what is needed to get the full potential of chill since it is only good for skills on cd.
Also consume conditions healing for 11k requires close to 1k healing power and, like you said, 6 conditions on you. That is a typical “if the stars align” requirement of necromancer skills and especially blood magic.
If the stars align and you get 5 targets standing in your wells and warhorn 5 with traited vampiric prec, bloodthirst and vamp rituals, coupled with minor vampiric you get a good amount of healing. If the stars align and nobody beats your bloody face to a pulp while you are standing, preferably with an ally, in your well of blood so you don’t have to use your class mechanic then Well of Blood heals for a good amount.
If the stars align and you can life siphon uninterrupted and on every cd and you got the traits for it then dagger 2 is a strong healing skill (but still gimping your damage).
Same is true for Locust signet (abyssmal for 1 target considering the 60s cd) and a pretty good active once you got to the 5 targets cap.
The thing with life leech as a whole is: it requires actually hitting enemies and mostly it requires you to hit 5 enemies because the numbers are balanced around that. Every other class that is capable of healing via traits and or weapon skills can do so without hitting someone so their form of sustain is consistent and doesn’t rely on the lack of vigor of their enemies. Also most of those other healing sources don’t have 3.5 second channel durations.

2k per is too much.
1k seems good to me. It’s about double of what it currently heals.

And yea healing while in DS should be possible. Would require some nerfs here and there probably, but still.

What about all heals while in DS have 50% of the effect from all sources \o/

grat idea 50% less heal while in DS

I agree that Deathly Invigoration needs some sort of buff, especially since Near to Death got cut to making DS a 7s recharge. The only way I could justify Deathly Invigoration’s existence before was being able to hit it every 5 seconds, on the dot. Increasing that to 7 seconds really hurts its theoretical effectiveness.

And either way, you still need to stack a pile of healing power to get anything worthwhile out of it.

Edit: Wow looked through the numbers people are putting up in this thread. 2000 is way too much for a base value for an ability you can hit every 7s forever – that makes it outshine the heal/second of well of blood with ritual mastery, in an AoE.
Personally I’d vote for somewhere around 900 with a slight buff to the scaling (0.5?), since that makes its base heal/second (Used every 10 seconds) surpass the base value of virtue of resolution, with slightly worse scaling.