Guild Wars 2

This great mechanic is a waste most of the time. As soon as I DS, I’m knocked down, pushed back, rooted, snared, or stunned. This usually begins with one of the previously mentioned CC as anyone else on the enemy team that sees me blasts me with the next CC.

There isn’t much use for the skill if anyone with a bit of skill sees the necro use it. Not to mention the abilities on the DS bar aren’t even that great to begin with. I want to like this class, and I’ll keep playing it, but compared to just about any other class this one feels weak. Conditions can be cleared easily and often, the class lacks burst damage, and most of all the class lacks mobility (especially in DS as everything else is gone and I can be CC’ed to death before I can even switch out).

sceptus.9415:

This great mechanic is a waste most of the time. As soon as I DS, I’m knocked down, pushed back, rooted, snared, or stunned. This usually begins with one of the previously mentioned CC as anyone else on the enemy team that sees me blasts me with the next CC.

There isn’t much use for the skill if anyone with a bit of skill sees the necro use it. Not to mention the abilities on the DS bar aren’t even that great to begin with. I want to like this class, and I’ll keep playing it, but compared to just about any other class this one feels weak. Conditions can be cleared easily and often, the class lacks burst damage, and most of all the class lacks mobility (especially in DS as everything else is gone and I can be CC’ed to death before I can even switch out).

This happens because they know we now have no defensive CD. And unless we put 30 points into SR we are easy knocked about in DS. And as lots of Necro’s go into DS to use 4 they know they can make us wast that CD.

If this is really your primary complaint, respec and get the grandmaster DS stability power.

If it is not your primary complaint, then realize that you are consciously saying that whatever other abilities you have chosen are better than stability. Balance accordingly.

Basically, be an adult. Choose what is best for you. Options are there if you are worried about being cc’d while in DS. If you still complain and do not take these options, that is your fault.

A Volcano.2510:

If this is really your primary complaint, respec and get the grandmaster DS stability power.

If it is not your primary complaint, then realize that you are consciously saying that whatever other abilities you have chosen are better than stability. Balance accordingly.

Basically, be an adult. Choose what is best for you. Options are there if you are worried about being cc’d while in DS. If you still complain and do not take these options, that is your fault.

lol it is way more than just saying Stability. It a matter of having to put 30 points into SR. If we could just take Stability on our utility bar that would be different. But your saying we have to go 30 points into a tree for that. Losing 30 points into another tree. So we are trading 3 major for 1. yay.

ON another note it is very sad that you have to resort to personal attacks on fellow posters.

I think this is a legitimate complaint. As we have no access to our utilities while in DS and the stability trait doesn’t even outlast the channeling of our #4 ability, the idea that this is somehow easily mitigated with an expensive investment is just not valid.

yeah but i use DS to soak up damage and to fear so this is all kind of the point.

I use Death Shroud for shroud-dancing (fury + condition removal + enfeebling blood), for the fear and for damage mitigation. You can’t really use it as a “Hurrdurr, I’m invulnerable!” button and it’s not always safe using it. Time it well and it’s a powerful tool. Misuse it and you’re toast. Simple as that.

Aireroth.7596:

shroud-dancing

lol’d hard. wow, really?

DS is ok… you need to use it smart… i us it a lot in pvp and i’m glass cannon build AND still it saves my life and gives me the extra edge to not die in 1vs2 or even 3. you have more then 1 ay to break CC’s and you have low CD on the DS so us it well.
i use this build: http://en.gw2codex.com/build/18635-necro-glass-cannon

This is really my main problem with necromancer.

Unless you spend 30 points in the DS traits, DS becomes a suicide button.

Whenever I meet someone solid in sPvP this is what will happen:

• I use DS
• opponent immediately pops a CC
• opponent closes distance
• opponent uses burst skills to kick me out of DS

Once I’m out of DS I can pop stun breaker, movement abilities, and dodge. This can save my life, but since I’m in close range I usually die anyway.

senate.8126:

Aireroth.7596:

shroud-dancing

lol’d hard. wow, really?

Why not? Reminds me of shadowdancer class from D&D universe.

Besides, I can have “permanent” fury up like this. And the extra condition removal (with 5 sec cd – 30 in soul reaping) is really handy. Can use it to get rid of pesky immobilizes.

f you get CC’d in DS try using fear, get out of DS, use stun breaker, slow down the opponent with any weapon skills you use and gain the distance again. this way your opponent wil have CD on his CC and you can use DS again after 10 sec. look at my build… i’m not all the way in DS trait and i dont miss it either cuz you will get genked a lot if you go against more then 2 players.
try this thing:
try to not use your DS at all for 20 matches at list and build yourself a DMG spec only. try to kitt, run away and everthing you need to do in order not to die. after that start using your DS and you will see it will be much better.
btw, i’m no pro and i’m more of PvE player but i did some matches and it was really good once i got the hang of it

Aireroth.7596:

senate.8126:

Aireroth.7596:

shroud-dancing

lol’d hard. wow, really?

Why not?

i’ll never understand why some gamers carve out a specific combo of game mechanics and call it by a special name to give it some sort of special meaning like they discovered some secret amazing thing.

Archinos.8754:

f you get CC’d in DS try using fear, get out of DS, use stun breaker

Huh? I didn’t know that fear is a stun breaker. That changes a lot of things.

senate.8126:

Aireroth.7596:

senate.8126:

Aireroth.7596:

shroud-dancing

lol’d hard. wow, really?

Why not?

i’ll never understand why some gamers carve out a specific combo of game mechanics and call it by a special name to give it some sort of special meaning like they discovered some secret amazing thing.

Yeah, you totally got me…

Back to topic:
Regarding fear as stun break, I think you misunderstood it. What the poster meant, was using fear to interrupt the enemy, pop out of DS and use a stun break ability (spectral walk or plague signet, for example).

HappyCerberus.3178:

Archinos.8754:

f you get CC’d in DS try using fear, get out of DS, use stun breaker

Huh? I didn’t know that fear is a stun breaker. That changes a lot of things.

I’m pretty sure the other guys said “use fear, get out of DS, use stun breaker”, and not “fear is a stun breaker”… You use fear to buy yourself a little time to use a stun breaker.

Aireroth.7596:

senate.8126:

Aireroth.7596:

senate.8126:

Aireroth.7596:

shroud-dancing

lol’d hard. wow, really?

Why not?

i’ll never understand why some gamers carve out a specific combo of game mechanics and call it by a special name to give it some sort of special meaning like they discovered some secret amazing thing.

Yeah, you totally got me…

Back to topic:
Regarding fear as stun break, I think you misunderstood it. What the poster meant, was using fear to interrupt the enemy, pop out of DS and use a stun break ability (spectral walk or plague signet, for example).

Now I’m super confused. So how can I use fear and pop out of DS when I’m stunned?

You get stunned -> jump into DS -> use Fear (you can use fear while being cc’d) -> jump out of DS -> use stunbreak.

Fear is there to give you that extra second you need to avoid the inevitable burst.

Oh wow, I genuinely didn’t know that I can use Fear while stunned (or jump into/out of DS for that matter).

My problem is getting stunned while inside DS.

If I can pop out of DS and use a stun-break, I don’t really have a problem. Don’t know why it didn’t work when I tried.

you use DS after the stun is over…. yes, DS LF will go down fast if you have a warrior on you but if you have a bit LF you can still pop the fear and get away and use skills like blood is power to gain 20% life force back or any other LF gaining skills.
with all that… you can get 3 sec of retaliation when entering DS so you will not loss that much LF.
dont count on your DS so much cuz it’s not your main life saver

My problem is getting stunned while inside DS.

try going for the 3 sec ret in spite tree. it helps a lot

you use DS after the stun is over

So which is it? Can I exit DS while stunned or not?

HappyCerberus.3178:

you use DS after the stun is over

So which is it? Can I exit DS while stunned or not?

no, you cant. that’s why i wrote to you to try and get the spite first tier for that

no, you cant. that’s why i wrote to you to try and get the spite first tier for that

Unless I’m completely missing something, Retaliation isn’t Stability (which is the one that would help).

Plus retaliation would only hit for cca. 300 dmg.

HappyCerberus.3178:

no, you cant. that’s why i wrote to you to try and get the spite first tier for that

Unless I’m completely missing something, Retaliation isn’t Stability (which is the one that would help).

if you get CC’d when in DS it’s not that bad.. but if your LF is geting lower after you get CC it’s bad… and you just burned you LF for nothing and ofc… you’ll die cuz the melee range…
what i was trying to say is that after the stun you will get kittenload of DMG on you and if you have Retaliation for 3 sec it will help you get out of this cases and renter the combat after you opponent got his CC and burst (warriors… ofc…) DMG on you.

HappyCerberus.3178:

Plus retaliation would only hit for cca. 300 dmg.

it’s still something… and it can go higher based on power…. so i’m not sure about the numbers but it helps…
btw… in some cases ppl did CC on me (DS was on) just to get closer to me and after i was out and in melee-ish range they polled the big guns on me so fear can help sometimes

Archinos.8754:

HappyCerberus.3178:

no, you cant. that’s why i wrote to you to try and get the spite first tier for that

Unless I’m completely missing something, Retaliation isn’t Stability (which is the one that would help).

if you get CC’d when in DS it’s not that bad.. but if your LF is geting lower after you get CC it’s bad… and you just burned you LF for nothing and ofc… you’ll die cuz the melee range…
what i was trying to say is that after the stun you will get kittenload of DMG on you and if you have Retaliation for 3 sec it will help you get out of this cases and renter the combat after you opponent got his CC and burst (warriors… ofc…) DMG on you.

Retaliation will do only (Power/13.4)+267 DMG. That’s better than nothing, but it can hardly match the 2k-4k hits you will be getting.

Most classes will be able to burst you out of DS in under one second. This means that when you exit DS you will still be stunned and receiving dmg. At that time you pop stun-break, dodge + pop movement abilities but usually that won’t be enough.

It’s much better to stay out of DS, that way you can pop stun break immediately and don’t loose the distance between you and the opponent.

Happy, everything you say is true and very situation dependent… that’s why i posted to try and not using DS at all so after that you will have better us of it when you really need it. TBH, ppl know that when we are in DS they cant do kitten and will target you and stun you and burst us out of it.
with that being sad, i rather use plague first when i’m in melee range to get my HP higher and blind/cripple melee’s. it also looks like your in DS and can cause ppl burn CD’s on you but you HP is a lot higher.

I’m not really arguing. I’m just saying that when you don’t spec into stability for DS, DS becomes very dangerous to use.

If you are in power spec you can still use DS for the damage, but I don’t know if it’s worth it (good AoE dmg with the leech I guess).

If you are in condition spec, even this usage becomes obsolete.

true that but my spec isn’t DS based but pure dmg and condition master and it works well for me with DS and i can build life force really quick with blood is power and get the retaliation for 3 sec. check it out, it’s nice to bleed the hell out of ppl and when needed to have good life force at most times to get in twice in a combat.
one more thing… spite tree gives you longer condition and it gives nice numbers and better way to stack more bleeds even with the scepter 1 or 2. that way you can go hard condition spec and gain power for using daggers or axe for more DMG with your bleeds.

I still don’t understand what so good about retaliation (yeah, if it would reflect some percentage of the incoming dmg, it would be awesome).

I’m actually using the sPvP pressure build I posted in the build thread.

HappyCerberus.3178:

I’m not really arguing.

it’s a good talk
didn’t think it’s flaming or something. i actually enjoying talking it over with you cuz i can be wrong ofc or even get new things so… it’s all good

HappyCerberus.3178:

I still don’t understand what so good about retaliation (yeah, if it would reflect some percentage of the incoming dmg, it would be awesome).

I’m actually using the sPvP pressure build I posted in the build thread.

checking it out now

If you see a lot of people using CC to render your DS useless, try to think smart and start doing the same with them….

Start entering DS to make them waste their CC on you… This can be done both ways. Think of it as the GW2 version of the WoW’s fake casting

+1 for the build mate.
and i dont use it either, i took lower signet CD instead.
but for “tanking” spec it’s still nice that you can have it on the second HP bar to lower as much as possible (sure, it’s not much but..)

deriver.5381:

If you see a lot of people using CC to render your DS useless, try to think smart and start doing the same with them….

Start entering DS to make them waste their CC on you… This can be done both ways. Think of it as the GW2 version of the WoW’s fake casting

agree with that, DS is a tool that most ppl use and think it’s for keep them selves a live but it’s not.. you can use it to get stacks of might, add bleeds, CC with fear or even just interrupt a cast, add weakness…
i’m sure there are more uses i didnt mention…

It’s not DS that’s getting you perma stunned, this happens when your being chased by 4 people regardless of what form you may be in. Besides, how can you complain about a second health pool :S

DS has saved my life many a time, due to a second health pool, fear and life absorb.

Archinos.8754:

deriver.5381:

If you see a lot of people using CC to render your DS useless, try to think smart and start doing the same with them….

Start entering DS to make them waste their CC on you… This can be done both ways. Think of it as the GW2 version of the WoW’s fake casting

agree with that, DS is a tool that most ppl use and think it’s for keep them selves a live but it’s not.. you can use it to get stacks of might, add bleeds, CC with fear or even just interrupt a cast, add weakness…
i’m sure there are more uses i didnt mention…

Heck, sometimes I even use it just for the gap closer for my dagger/dagger build ^^

weakening shroud is almost useless because have a huge 15 internal CD and you need to be on melee range.

I think Death Shroud 1 and 2 abilities need some changes, or add another ability. While leveling my Necro there are many times I don’t even care to use it. On my Thief and on my Warrior I used my burst ability constantly. Necro I only use it under certain conditions.

Hmm… if retaliation does (Power/13.4)+267 DMG, in a 2000 power build you would be doing 416 damage per proc. Now image that hundred blades warrior charging you and popping haste, and you popping into DS to eat the burst. That’s 3.3k damage you’re doing to him during his burst. Or 3.7k to a Pistol Whip rogue. That’s really not so bad.

i hope death shroud is immune to CC.

Lucubration.8361:

Hmm… if retaliation does (Power/13.4)+267 DMG, in a 2000 power build you would be doing 416 damage per proc. Now image that hundred blades warrior charging you and popping haste, and you popping into DS to eat the burst. That’s 3.3k damage you’re doing to him during his burst. Or 3.7k to a Pistol Whip rogue. That’s really not so bad.

I think it caps at 350, and is reduced by armor. I got about 230 yesterday

Lucubration.8361:

Hmm… if retaliation does (Power/13.4)+267 DMG, in a 2000 power build you would be doing 416 damage per proc. Now image that hundred blades warrior charging you and popping haste, and you popping into DS to eat the burst. That’s 3.3k damage you’re doing to him during his burst. Or 3.7k to a Pistol Whip rogue. That’s really not so bad.

Very true, and if you spec into other power/pres lines, you suddenly open up a new world, you get fury and enfeebling blood which will dampen the warrior’s hits and bleed him while you switch back and counter.

Do not forget Death Shivers, AOE 10 sec vulnerability every 3 sec.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death_Shiver

Need stability? Use lich form for 1 second and exit = 29seconds of stabilty

kKagari.6804:

Lucubration.8361:

Hmm… if retaliation does (Power/13.4)+267 DMG, in a 2000 power build you would be doing 416 damage per proc. Now image that hundred blades warrior charging you and popping haste, and you popping into DS to eat the burst. That’s 3.3k damage you’re doing to him during his burst. Or 3.7k to a Pistol Whip rogue. That’s really not so bad.

I think it caps at 350, and is reduced by armor. I got about 230 yesterday

not sure about the cap but perhapse the foe had protection 350 – 33% = 233
on the flip side don’t 100 blades cause the warrior to have 20% increased damage

merch.1026:

Need stability? Use lich form for 1 second and exit = 29seconds of stabilty

They nerfed this on other professions. Only a matter of time…

To add to this thread, i dont know any other profession that needs to dive so many points into their ‘f1-f4ish" type abilitys to make them viable most of the time. Everyone else’s ’granted i never played elementalist" is useful all the time. I think the biggest flaw to deathshroud is you cant use your normal abilitys while in it….i think it should be rebalanced to allow this and people would have less complaints around it.

Try this for a combo

Lich form drop skills 2-5 (which could all instant cast apparently? not in game to check)
Leave lich form giving you large amount of stability (by now you should have the attention of all your foes) jump into deathshroud (spec would be the enfeebling blood, retaliation, and the vulnerbility) people are hitting you great retaliation, your not loosing much damage because they are weakened, hit life leech and watch them die

before entering DS you could drop some wells/marks too