Lich form auto attack can do more damage on a power builds than retaliation ever could
merch. i feel like everytime i see a “have a problem with deathshroud grab these 3-4 traits specificly designed to make it better over other traits”. i would like to hear how it is useful when i have NO traits invested in it because i’d rather put those in other abilitys. As engineer i dont need to put ONE kitten trait into toolbelt…because toolbelt is always there giving me 4 extra abilitys that help me NO MATTER WHAT PLAY STYLE I CHOOSE. This can be said about gaurdian too….hunters pet is always useful no matter what your doing (just choose the pet for the situation) etc etc
Deathshroud should be worth giving up ALL my abilitys to jump into it EVERY chance its up even if i have NO traits into it in EVERY possible play style for it to be acceptable. Because the class weapon skills/utilitys are balanced around the fact some of them give life force…aka they are giving life force over something else (more damage another condition..a cast time etc). Which means, a full death shroud bar should be making up for it. If i can get my deathshroud full 5 seconds after leaving it, it should be worth it for me to go back into it even if i’m not taking hits…as it stands if i used life drain/fear and didnt do some trait build around it…it probably isnt. This is a problem.
please try out my none fear focused version of my full spectral warrior build
http://tinyurl.com/98meup9
Long read about my fear based full spectral warrior build and how to use it.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/tPvP-Staff-dagger-dagger-build-full-spectral-warrior/first#post376885
merch, not sure who your responding to..but you just linked a build that is using multiple deathshroud traits just like i said everyone is forced to do.
merch, not sure who your responding to..but you just linked a build that is using multiple deathshroud traits just like i said everyone is forced to do.
sorry didn’t quite grasp what you were asking for. I agree vanilla DS is not as useful as when adding a few traits to it, but thats the aspect of the game.
If your going to use minons you would use minon traits if your going for bleeds you use condition duration traits etc. I don’t know about the engineer but does adding traits to the toolbelt make it much better?
Vanilla DS gives you extra hp, decent burst if your power/crit based, some protection to burst on you if its up. unfortunatly for a condition necro its damage potential is limited hopefully anet will address this.
(edited by merch.1026)
Zinwrath, I lately changed my build to a more sturdier and team-oriented one, coming from full soul reaping tree. I still use DS for damage mitigation and fear + life transfer.
I have to say, I haven’t tried it in tournaments yet, but it’s quite nice in dungeons and hotjoin.
There is still enough playroom with the major traits and I was a bit afraid to go for Death Magic as the minor traits (Reanimator and Protection of the Horde) are feel awfully wasted. But, it feels viable, with enough control and without DS traits. You can still dish out decent amounts of damage plus you stay alive rather well.
DS usage would be:
Im afraid to coin a phrase but we all as a community of necros need to use DS better. I think a few people are starting to see the potential it gives.
Aireroths example is a vaid one.
The necromancer is not a warrior its not a thief its not a class to press one button for insta death. The necromancer needs skill and practice, and in some case with DS timing it needs Luck.
Additionally I feel that necromancers need out of the box thinking inorder to come up with combos of skills.
An example of a none traited DS being good. this is a power based solution using 30 points in spite to get XII close to death (fully usable out of Death shroud)
During a group fight Save life transfer for mid fight soon as you can see 1 or two foes dipping below the magic 50%HP use Life transfer if un-interrupted (you may call for stabilty from a friend – guardian aoe stability) you can do over 7,000 damage to 5 people, under 50% HP not many classes are going to have much more than 7000hp left.
Outcome – mass murder
want more damage? try curses 25 point trait for 2% damage per condition during a mid fight situation there could be 4-6 conditions per foe.
even more damage slot 5 runes of infiltration for 10% extra damage when below 50%
not keen on infiltration other runes can be used
slot scholar for 8% crit damage + 10% while your over 90%hp long as you have over 90% LF this is will work.
add one little DS trait
comboing the fury on DS (curses 15) with a full set of rage runes is going to give you 10% crit damage +5% more damage for that fury on you
(edited by merch.1026)
Untraited DS does not deal loads of damage. With lots of lifeforce the life blast does decent damage. Not terribly more than you would outside of DS and keep in mind you cant do anything else but use this ability after you burned down the other cd’s. Where as OUTSIDE ds i can be doing a multitude of utilitys and weapon skills that will add up to me doing more damage and have more counter abilitys and cc than if i was IN ds.
Also, you try to defend this build with “have a gaurdian give you stabilty” because you know how stupid this would be in a tournament match or any match outside this very specific situation where you coordinate with a gaurdian who just happens to have one of his ways to give you stability up and use it and you happen to be in range or in the circle it lays down for this. Thats WAY too specific a scenerio…also assuming 1-2 foes are dipping under 50% health.
Your essentially doing the same thing as with the “if you have tehse traits” only now with “in this exact scenerio its good”. Thats not enough for me for the class defining ability, toolbelt skills are good with NO traits (honestly there arent many traits that effect it in the firstplace). If you life transfer you KNOW that the person will knock you back/cc you or just teleport away from you. Furthering how limited DS really is for a damage tool (especially without being FORCED to invest traits to it).
You could argue “well if you want DS be useful you need to trait for it just like if you want to use wells or minions you need to trait”. I come back to the fact no other profession is forced to trait for their profession defining ability to make it useful in every situation. They just all are because they were designed correctly to be.
Deathshroud is also built right into every aspect of the class making it more of a necessary tool to be used frequently due to so many abilitys being tied to replenishing your life force.
end point same as old point. We can all argue (under this specific situation its good) or (with these traits that buff it its good). but realisticly it should be viable as all of the necromancer abilitys are balanced around the assumption your going to use it …every chance you can. Ontop of the fact its the ONLY profession defining ability that locks you out of all your other abilitys while you use it (meaning no utilitys no other forms of cc possibly HIGHER DAMAGE (most cases dagger still puts out more damage than life blast) and any form of stun break. In some ways you are nerfed while using it in exchange for a small tool set of abilitys you may not need.
it needs fixed.
My solution suggestion btw since i dont want to be someone who just complains and doesnt offer help..
DS changed does not force you into a “kit” where you cant use any of your abilitys you now get f1-f4 abilitys that all cost life force to use.
1. Life blast costs X life force (can be cast with less than required life force for less damage) large damage nuke with cast time also applies condition (either bleed, poison, burning..not random just one of those)
2. Life drain – channeled AE lifesteal that drains life force per hit. (this can keep the same amount of health stolen because it is countered by not only CC but poison as well)
3. summon Horror (or whatever you want it to be) Summons minion that attacks for X seconds consuming life force while its alive, upon death does AE condition (also possibly upon detonation does AE fear 1 second) Best thing about this is you can just detonate it early if you want only the fear. (so still good for non minion builds)
4. Death Shield (or something snazzier) Drains life force slowly while toggled on, all damage is cut in half (damage taken increases the speed it eats lifeforce like present). Can be toggled off but has a CD like DS does now to prevent you from just turning it on and off with too much freedom.
This would cover every base, and most importantly deathshroud abilitys are just buffs to what your already doing…meaning you didnt put yourself in another form sacrificing all your abilitys to use one of the deathshroud abilitys. You simply get new tools that cost a resource you get from doing certain attacks. Imagine for a second you had something like this instead (and it was balanced of course) would you like it more? or if not this something like it with your own tweaks…..i think most people would.
This is really my main problem with necromancer.
Unless you spend 30 points in the DS traits, DS becomes a suicide button.
Whenever I meet someone solid in sPvP this is what will happen:
- I use DS
- opponent immediately pops a CC
- opponent closes distance
- opponent uses burst skills to kick me out of DS
Once I’m out of DS I can pop stun breaker, movement abilities, and dodge. This can save my life, but since I’m in close range I usually die anyway.
Why don’t you fear them after they run up to you. By the time fear wears off you will be out of their cc and at range from them. Then you can exit death shroud and engage them as per normal.
Death shroud is a fabulous mechanic and I can win a good number of my fights without hardly even losing any health because of it.
This great mechanic is a waste most of the time. As soon as I DS, I’m knocked down, pushed back, rooted, snared, or stunned. This usually begins with one of the previously mentioned CC as anyone else on the enemy team that sees me blasts me with the next CC.
There isn’t much use for the skill if anyone with a bit of skill sees the necro use it. Not to mention the abilities on the DS bar aren’t even that great to begin with. I want to like this class, and I’ll keep playing it, but compared to just about any other class this one feels weak. Conditions can be cleared easily and often, the class lacks burst damage, and most of all the class lacks mobility (especially in DS as everything else is gone and I can be CC’ed to death before I can even switch out).
Isn’t this good? You are absorbing cc in your death shroud that could have been used on a teammate or used on you when you arn’t in death shroud… Just try not to pop your life siphon until you think that everyone has used their cc or until no one has line of site on you.
f you get CC’d in DS try using fear, get out of DS, use stun breaker
Huh? I didn’t know that fear is a stun breaker. That changes a lot of things.
Thats not what he said.
please try out my none fear focused version of my full spectral warrior build
http://tinyurl.com/98meup9Long read about my fear based full spectral warrior build and how to use it.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/tPvP-Staff-dagger-dagger-build-full-spectral-warrior/first#post376885
Those are necromancer builds not warrior builds bro….
Doom being an instant cast can be used while stunned, giving you 1-2 seconds of them fleeing giving you time to either leave ds and clear the stun or just sit and wait it out.
“Full spectral warrior” is just a name I gave the build its not literally a warrior build. its sort of a spoof of the game http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_Spectrum_Warrior
Doom being an instant cast can be used while stunned, giving you 1-2 seconds of them fleeing giving you time to either leave ds and clear the stun or just sit and wait it out.
“Full spectral warrior” is just a name I gave the build its not literally a warrior build. its sort of a spoof of the game http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_Spectrum_Warrior
righto
Im afraid to coin a phrase but we all as a community of necros need to use DS better. I think a few people are starting to see the potential it gives.
Aireroths example is a vaid one.
The necromancer is not a warrior its not a thief its not a class to press one button for insta death. The necromancer needs skill and practice, and in some case with DS timing it needs Luck.
Additionally I feel that necromancers need out of the box thinking inorder to come up with combos of skills.
The problem at the moment is that DS makes the necro an attrition class. You can see it quite well if you spec into power. The damage falls dramatically short of other classes’ glass cannon builds.
The problem is, however, that even with perfect “stance dancing” in and out of shadowform it is often not enough. And not only the skill of the player is to blame here (especially not on other classes. Playing another class except ele after a necro feels like driving with training wheels).
The reasons for that is that the dps is…
1. DPS is pretty low (even, as aforementioned, in a glass cannon spec)
2. Gathering life force is hard
Imo one of those two points should be changed to a degree. Both would most likely result in an op class.
Gathering life force in combat is also problematic because
1. Power specs won’t survive for long enough to gather a meaningful amount
2. Condition spec generate life force very slowly
And regardless of spec or utility choice you either lose dps, survivability or something else which you would badly need.
Best i can tell from various sources is that Anet freaked when a couple of people figured out how to be virtually unkillable in one of the beta tests by keeping DS up constantly. So they reduced some stuff here, removed some stuff there, and then launched the game…
Id say Death Shroud and mesmer Shatter systems are the worst mechanics in the game. The Mesmer Shatter system as its only useful for shatter spammers while those (like me) that spec to get benefits and bonuses with them being up we lose WAY to much to make using shatters that useful
Death Shroud has the same problem, when specc-ed into its solid, when not its pretty poor compared to the other classes that are still very solid even when taking NO traits that improve it at all.
The fact you can be burst out of DS from 100% in under a second is VERY annoying, the damage is sub-par and losing all utilities is annoying in group fights getting LF isnt too bad though could be better, solo its terrible
For me at least, it has the same issue as Mesmer Shatter mechanic…just not worth using most of the time sure you get that extra “health” while decent can be burst out of in seconds the abilities are pretty shoddy as well damage is low, fear and the mass AoE are decent though but nothing more so over all i think it could do with alot of work but then that goes for the trait system as well but that wont be fixed any time soon either.
Best i can tell from various sources is that Anet freaked when a couple of people figured out how to be virtually unkillable in one of the beta tests by keeping DS up constantly. So they reduced some stuff here, removed some stuff there, and then launched the game…
and now make it pretty useless unless fully specc-ed for it.
Not affiliated with ArenaNet or NCSOFT. No support is provided.
All assets, page layout, visual style belong to ArenaNet and are used solely to replicate the original design and preserve the original look and feel.
Contact /u/e-scrape-artist on reddit if you encounter a bug.