Guild Wars 2

Forum bug, begone!

I just hope that they don’t go making unblockable projectiles a thing.

Mai Trin is such cheesy design, with no real indicator of which projectiles do and do not work with reflecta, not to mention human sized bosses are terrible with the amount of particle effects in this game you have a hard time reading their movement under all the elementalist/guardian fire.

Zenith.7301:

I just hope that they don’t go making unblockable projectiles a thing.

Agreed. Reflects are probably a bit too easy for players to come by, but the solution isn’t to make the animations lie to players.

Dadnir.5038:

Enrage mechanism are bad design… this will just strengthen the zerk meta. (I’m sure even a dev can understand that)

Hopefully, raid encounter will be designed around securing secondary objectives and not stupidly bashing a boss “as soon as you can”. We know that they can do some great things in this regard (Brill’s lair was a huge success and didn’t needed players to have a dps check).

If the encounters are designed around trash management and boss tanking while ally or players prepare an environemental mean to chunk at the boss HP, then, I believe, Every profession (necromancer included) will have it’s place in Raid. (On second though, enrage could be a periodic state where the boss destroy everything on the area, forcing player to build a new environmental thing to try and kill the boss. Well there are tons of possibilities that exclud brainless DPS and promote all kind of different gameplay. I mean, do you really think that hitting a giant foe with a sword that look like a toothpick for him is a good way to kill it?)

On the other hand, if it’s a DPS check encounter (like what we currently have in dungeon) then the actual meta will stay meta… nothing will change and necro, due to the area where he is lacking, will be pushed out of the roster (Like he already is).

I agree.

Also if they add ways to reliably control aggro, then necro would be one of the best options for a tank. These aggro control methods should be instance specific or encounter specific.

However if we can’t do anything with the aggro, the value of tanky characters will generally not go up compared to now.

To be honest, the developers words do not inspire confidence. This is even worse since players are beginning to whine about increasing the buff cap from 5 to 10. Also this thing about tanking is even making me more angry, the only solace I can take is that I wont bother with raids. I want to do them, but the design decisions are not inspiring confidence. They brought up tanking and dps race and all you can do is laugh at the poor necromancer having no role.

Unless boon control becomes important for example, necros will never be needed.

PlatinumMember.5274:

To be honest, the developers words do not inspire confidence. This is even worse since players are beginning to whine about increasing the buff cap from 5 to 10. Also this thing about tanking is even making me more angry, the only solace I can take is that I wont bother with raids. I want to do them, but the design decisions are not inspiring confidence. They brought up tanking and dps race and all you can do is laugh at the poor necromancer having no role.

Unless boon control becomes important for example, necros will never be needed.

Necro is the best tank. I’m gonna have to make a video…

Khristophoros.7194:

PlatinumMember.5274:

To be honest, the developers words do not inspire confidence. This is even worse since players are beginning to whine about increasing the buff cap from 5 to 10. Also this thing about tanking is even making me more angry, the only solace I can take is that I wont bother with raids. I want to do them, but the design decisions are not inspiring confidence. They brought up tanking and dps race and all you can do is laugh at the poor necromancer having no role.

Unless boon control becomes important for example, necros will never be needed.

Necro is the best tank. I’m gonna have to make a video…

I am not seeing the sarcasm so I am going to assume you are not joking?

If you are not, good luck generating enough life force to be a viable tank.

Dadnir.5038:

Enrage mechanism are bad design… this will just strengthen the zerk meta. (I’m sure even a dev can understand that)

Hopefully, raid encounter will be designed around securing secondary objectives and not stupidly bashing a boss “as soon as you can”. We know that they can do some great things in this regard (Brill’s lair was a huge success and didn’t needed players to have a dps check).

If the encounters are designed around trash management and boss tanking while ally or players prepare an environemental mean to chunk at the boss HP, then, I believe, Every profession (necromancer included) will have it’s place in Raid. (On second though, enrage could be a periodic state where the boss destroy everything on the area, forcing player to build a new environmental thing to try and kill the boss. Well there are tons of possibilities that exclud brainless DPS and promote all kind of different gameplay. I mean, do you really think that hitting a giant foe with a sword that look like a toothpick for him is a good way to kill it?)

On the other hand, if it’s a DPS check encounter (like what we currently have in dungeon) then the actual meta will stay meta… nothing will change and necro, due to the area where he is lacking, will be pushed out of the roster (Like he already is).

Enrage mechanics make sense because:

• it ensures a full turtle party won’t work
• it adds to the difficulty (see world boss)

I guess the devs assume that a full turtle party is more likely than a full zerker, and this is probably true in the beginning. I sincerely hope full zerker will never work, but many people seem to disagree with me in the PvE forum…

I dont want to go into specifics but I will say when I read “When bosses don’t die in 5 seconds, survivability and sustainability actually becomes a thing. Necros are in a fantastic place atm for raiding.”, the blood starting rushing…..

Zalavaaris.5329:

I dont want to go into specifics but I will say when I read “When bosses don’t die in 5 seconds, survivability and sustainability actually becomes a thing. Necros are in a fantastic place atm for raiding.”, the blood starting rushing…..

Good way or bad way? B

TheLastNobody.8319:

Zalavaaris.5329:

I dont want to go into specifics but I will say when I read “When bosses don’t die in 5 seconds, survivability and sustainability actually becomes a thing. Necros are in a fantastic place atm for raiding.”, the blood starting rushing…..

Good way or bad way? B

Oh a very good way, lets just say if I were in class reading it I would prefer to not be called up to the front of the room.

Zalavaaris.5329:

TheLastNobody.8319:

Zalavaaris.5329:

I dont want to go into specifics but I will say when I read “When bosses don’t die in 5 seconds, survivability and sustainability actually becomes a thing. Necros are in a fantastic place atm for raiding.”, the blood starting rushing…..

Good way or bad way? B

Oh a very good way

Good good, I just hope between now and then give give us more defenses like projectile destruction and the like…..yes I’m lobbying hard for projectile destruction….that and increased healing sources through Deathshroud/RS. Like everything apart from teammate heals, really think everything we have and regeneration would do us some wonders….and slightly buffed siphoning.

But that’s another topic for another day!

PlatinumMember.5274:

To be honest, the developers words do not inspire confidence. This is even worse since players are beginning to whine about increasing the buff cap from 5 to 10. Also this thing about tanking is even making me more angry, the only solace I can take is that I wont bother with raids. I want to do them, but the design decisions are not inspiring confidence. They brought up tanking and dps race and all you can do is laugh at the poor necromancer having no role.

Unless boon control becomes important for example, necros will never be needed.

I agree, when the developers say that, based on their experience playing the content, they’ve found that necromancers are quite good in raids, I immediately assume this means that necromancers are entirely worthless and will drag a party down so badly that they’ll be banned from all organized raid groups. It’s the only logical conclusion.

Captain Unusual.9163:

PlatinumMember.5274:

To be honest, the developers words do not inspire confidence. This is even worse since players are beginning to whine about increasing the buff cap from 5 to 10. Also this thing about tanking is even making me more angry, the only solace I can take is that I wont bother with raids. I want to do them, but the design decisions are not inspiring confidence. They brought up tanking and dps race and all you can do is laugh at the poor necromancer having no role.

Unless boon control becomes important for example, necros will never be needed.

I agree, when the developers say that, based on their experience playing the content, they’ve found that necromancers are quite good in raids, I immediately assume this means that necromancers are entirely worthless and will drag a party down so badly that they’ll be banned from all organized raid groups. It’s the only logical conclusion.

Like how scary it’d be when Necromancers finally, one day, figured out Death Shroud mastery?

ODB.6891:

Axelwarrior.9084:

Bhawb.7408:

Well to be fair, the reason Ele is there is because it has (or had I’m not sure of current DPS listings) the highest DPS. Which means if your build doesn’t have any unique support, it has to be the highest DPS in the game as its “niche”, which so far doesn’t happen. With 10 people in a group it might actually be possible to devote a few people to max DPS duty if a DPS-only build actually had insane DPS, but I don’t see how Necromancer would get that role.

Also, they mention that you need survivability, but the reality is people are more than capable of doing the current most difficult content with berserker gear, so it might be that ANet is just too bad to deal with it.

If Ele only had the highest DPS it would be fine, but it also has amazing utility and support on top of that…
Of course, back when FGS was a thing, it was even more ridiculous.

Btw, do we know what our DPS after Robert’s recent changes to Reaper? Is it possible that it has gotten impressive?

Also, in raids, reviving might be more relevant, so Blood Magic Necromancer would be slightly more useful…
Though, I guess, Blood Magic will most likely be replaced by Reaper if we want good DPS?

I hope people realize that necromancers aren’t the only profession that has rez traits. The only differences is that ours help person being rezzed…the other professions traits help the rezzer not die while doing the rez. That being said, I would never play or invite a class just for the purpose of rezzing…that’s just a defeatist mentality to assume that you are going to have a bunch of fails to have to compensate for.

Thinking that “I shouldn’t ever be getting downed” is a dungeon mentality and a testiment to how easy PvE is.
I see no problem with getting downed and being in danger in raids. Why not have a boss target a few members of the party and instantly downing them before preparing his next attack? Sounds like a reasonable mechanic to me.

In GW2, losing all your HP doesn’t mean you have failed. Because down state is a mechanic.

Axelwarrior.9084:

ODB.6891:

Axelwarrior.9084:

Bhawb.7408:

Well to be fair, the reason Ele is there is because it has (or had I’m not sure of current DPS listings) the highest DPS. Which means if your build doesn’t have any unique support, it has to be the highest DPS in the game as its “niche”, which so far doesn’t happen. With 10 people in a group it might actually be possible to devote a few people to max DPS duty if a DPS-only build actually had insane DPS, but I don’t see how Necromancer would get that role.

Also, they mention that you need survivability, but the reality is people are more than capable of doing the current most difficult content with berserker gear, so it might be that ANet is just too bad to deal with it.

If Ele only had the highest DPS it would be fine, but it also has amazing utility and support on top of that…
Of course, back when FGS was a thing, it was even more ridiculous.

Btw, do we know what our DPS after Robert’s recent changes to Reaper? Is it possible that it has gotten impressive?

Also, in raids, reviving might be more relevant, so Blood Magic Necromancer would be slightly more useful…
Though, I guess, Blood Magic will most likely be replaced by Reaper if we want good DPS?

I hope people realize that necromancers aren’t the only profession that has rez traits. The only differences is that ours help person being rezzed…the other professions traits help the rezzer not die while doing the rez. That being said, I would never play or invite a class just for the purpose of rezzing…that’s just a defeatist mentality to assume that you are going to have a bunch of fails to have to compensate for.

Thinking that “I shouldn’t ever be getting downed” is a dungeon mentality and a testiment to how easy PvE is.
I see no problem with getting downed and being in danger in raids. Why not have a boss target a few members of the party and instantly downing them before preparing his next attack? Sounds like a reasonable mechanic to me.

In GW2, losing all your HP doesn’t mean you have failed. Because down state is a mechanic.

That’s more PvP challenge type PvE pales to it bosses have far less potential then players and are usually 1v5 or 10 for raids. You need damage to win down state is a damage loss maybe not with necro lol didn’t test so every comp will always focus and adapt to not getting downed even if the devs try to enforce it. Rest of the game of the game is way too easy and different for players to suddenly accept that in raids for now.

Sagat.3285:

Axelwarrior.9084:

ODB.6891:

Axelwarrior.9084:

Bhawb.7408:

Well to be fair, the reason Ele is there is because it has (or had I’m not sure of current DPS listings) the highest DPS. Which means if your build doesn’t have any unique support, it has to be the highest DPS in the game as its “niche”, which so far doesn’t happen. With 10 people in a group it might actually be possible to devote a few people to max DPS duty if a DPS-only build actually had insane DPS, but I don’t see how Necromancer would get that role.

Also, they mention that you need survivability, but the reality is people are more than capable of doing the current most difficult content with berserker gear, so it might be that ANet is just too bad to deal with it.

If Ele only had the highest DPS it would be fine, but it also has amazing utility and support on top of that…
Of course, back when FGS was a thing, it was even more ridiculous.

Btw, do we know what our DPS after Robert’s recent changes to Reaper? Is it possible that it has gotten impressive?

Also, in raids, reviving might be more relevant, so Blood Magic Necromancer would be slightly more useful…
Though, I guess, Blood Magic will most likely be replaced by Reaper if we want good DPS?

I hope people realize that necromancers aren’t the only profession that has rez traits. The only differences is that ours help person being rezzed…the other professions traits help the rezzer not die while doing the rez. That being said, I would never play or invite a class just for the purpose of rezzing…that’s just a defeatist mentality to assume that you are going to have a bunch of fails to have to compensate for.

Thinking that “I shouldn’t ever be getting downed” is a dungeon mentality and a testiment to how easy PvE is.
I see no problem with getting downed and being in danger in raids. Why not have a boss target a few members of the party and instantly downing them before preparing his next attack? Sounds like a reasonable mechanic to me.

In GW2, losing all your HP doesn’t mean you have failed. Because down state is a mechanic.

That’s more PvP challenge type PvE pales to it bosses have far less potential then players and are usually 1v5 or 10 for raids. You need damage to win down state is a damage loss maybe not with necro lol didn’t test so every comp will always focus and adapt to not getting downed even if the devs try to enforce it. Rest of the game of the game is way too easy and different for players to suddenly accept that in raids for now.

Raids are supposed to change what we take for granted in dungeons today.

Axelwarrior.9084:

Sagat.3285:

Axelwarrior.9084:

ODB.6891:

Axelwarrior.9084:

Bhawb.7408:

Well to be fair, the reason Ele is there is because it has (or had I’m not sure of current DPS listings) the highest DPS. Which means if your build doesn’t have any unique support, it has to be the highest DPS in the game as its “niche”, which so far doesn’t happen. With 10 people in a group it might actually be possible to devote a few people to max DPS duty if a DPS-only build actually had insane DPS, but I don’t see how Necromancer would get that role.

Also, they mention that you need survivability, but the reality is people are more than capable of doing the current most difficult content with berserker gear, so it might be that ANet is just too bad to deal with it.

If Ele only had the highest DPS it would be fine, but it also has amazing utility and support on top of that…
Of course, back when FGS was a thing, it was even more ridiculous.

Btw, do we know what our DPS after Robert’s recent changes to Reaper? Is it possible that it has gotten impressive?

Also, in raids, reviving might be more relevant, so Blood Magic Necromancer would be slightly more useful…
Though, I guess, Blood Magic will most likely be replaced by Reaper if we want good DPS?

I hope people realize that necromancers aren’t the only profession that has rez traits. The only differences is that ours help person being rezzed…the other professions traits help the rezzer not die while doing the rez. That being said, I would never play or invite a class just for the purpose of rezzing…that’s just a defeatist mentality to assume that you are going to have a bunch of fails to have to compensate for.

Thinking that “I shouldn’t ever be getting downed” is a dungeon mentality and a testiment to how easy PvE is.
I see no problem with getting downed and being in danger in raids. Why not have a boss target a few members of the party and instantly downing them before preparing his next attack? Sounds like a reasonable mechanic to me.

In GW2, losing all your HP doesn’t mean you have failed. Because down state is a mechanic.

That’s more PvP challenge type PvE pales to it bosses have far less potential then players and are usually 1v5 or 10 for raids. You need damage to win down state is a damage loss maybe not with necro lol didn’t test so every comp will always focus and adapt to not getting downed even if the devs try to enforce it. Rest of the game of the game is way too easy and different for players to suddenly accept that in raids for now.

Raids are supposed to change what we take for granted in dungeons today.

I know I’m being about specific about the down state mechanic. No one is going to build around downstate,rez or even accept going into it as part of the challenge unless they can create PvP like raids which I see no hint of. Players will stay alive by their own strength or rely on others unless I’ve been wrongly underestimating the devs PvE creativity.

Silverkey.2078:

Enrage mechanics make sense because:

• it ensures a full turtle party won’t work
• it adds to the difficulty (see world boss)

I guess the devs assume that a full turtle party is more likely than a full zerker, and this is probably true in the beginning. I sincerely hope full zerker will never work, but many people seem to disagree with me in the PvE forum…

Mark me down as a disagreer. Enrage mechanics as a DPS check are one of the most frustrating ways to go about it, because until most of the time has passed you aren’t sure that it’ll work or not. Likewise, it doesn’t make the bosses any harder, it just means that you have to re-instance after every failure.

I’ve seen other games do it better. Two ways in particular.

#1: Piercing damage. This was done in a game where one class can literally be 20 times more durable than another, but since this wasn’t via HP scale many of the bosses had special piercing effects that could do damage beyond passive defenses.

#2: Regen/heal mechanics. A boss with high permanent regen serves as a DPS check, except that in these fights you’ll know in about 10 seconds whether you lack the deeps or not.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Silverkey.2078:

Enrage mechanics make sense because:

• it ensures a full turtle party won’t work
• it adds to the difficulty (see world boss)

I guess the devs assume that a full turtle party is more likely than a full zerker, and this is probably true in the beginning. I sincerely hope full zerker will never work, but many people seem to disagree with me in the PvE forum…

Mark me down as a disagreer. Enrage mechanics as a DPS check are one of the most frustrating ways to go about it, because until most of the time has passed you aren’t sure that it’ll work or not. Likewise, it doesn’t make the bosses any harder, it just means that you have to re-instance after every failure.

I’ve seen other games do it better. Two ways in particular.

#1: Piercing damage. This was done in a game where one class can literally be 20 times more durable than another, but since this wasn’t via HP scale many of the bosses had special piercing effects that could do damage beyond passive defenses.

#2: Regen/heal mechanics. A boss with high permanent regen serves as a DPS check, except that in these fights you’ll know in about 10 seconds whether you lack the deeps or not.

I perfectly agree it is not the best way, and like you I would have loved to see a regen or possibly an actual heal with breakbar or some other interesting mechanics.

Silverkey.2078:

Dadnir.5038:

Enrage mechanism are bad design… this will just strengthen the zerk meta. (I’m sure even a dev can understand that)

Hopefully, raid encounter will be designed around securing secondary objectives and not stupidly bashing a boss “as soon as you can”. We know that they can do some great things in this regard (Brill’s lair was a huge success and didn’t needed players to have a dps check).

If the encounters are designed around trash management and boss tanking while ally or players prepare an environemental mean to chunk at the boss HP, then, I believe, Every profession (necromancer included) will have it’s place in Raid. (On second though, enrage could be a periodic state where the boss destroy everything on the area, forcing player to build a new environmental thing to try and kill the boss. Well there are tons of possibilities that exclud brainless DPS and promote all kind of different gameplay. I mean, do you really think that hitting a giant foe with a sword that look like a toothpick for him is a good way to kill it?)

On the other hand, if it’s a DPS check encounter (like what we currently have in dungeon) then the actual meta will stay meta… nothing will change and necro, due to the area where he is lacking, will be pushed out of the roster (Like he already is).

Enrage mechanics make sense because:

• it ensures a full turtle party won’t work
• it adds to the difficulty (see world boss)

I guess the devs assume that a full turtle party is more likely than a full zerker, and this is probably true in the beginning. I sincerely hope full zerker will never work, but many people seem to disagree with me in the PvE forum…

I can’t agree with you. In GW2 passive defense are to crapy to be viable enough to ensure a turtle party.
Don’t get me wrong, or get the zerk meta wrong. The zerk meta is here not only because it’s the fastest way to clean dungeon, it’s here because the longer you drag a fight, the higher your chance to wipe (due to a lack of active defense).

A dev that would think and fear a “turtle strategy” wouldn’t know a bit of it’s own game.

NB.: Pasive defense are fine for PvP though.

The thing is if they just added a 1 second per target icd for Frostbow hits, normal bosses might live longer than 5 second also…

Dadnir.5038:

Silverkey.2078:

Dadnir.5038:

Enrage mechanism are bad design… this will just strengthen the zerk meta. (I’m sure even a dev can understand that)

Hopefully, raid encounter will be designed around securing secondary objectives and not stupidly bashing a boss “as soon as you can”. We know that they can do some great things in this regard (Brill’s lair was a huge success and didn’t needed players to have a dps check).

If the encounters are designed around trash management and boss tanking while ally or players prepare an environemental mean to chunk at the boss HP, then, I believe, Every profession (necromancer included) will have it’s place in Raid. (On second though, enrage could be a periodic state where the boss destroy everything on the area, forcing player to build a new environmental thing to try and kill the boss. Well there are tons of possibilities that exclud brainless DPS and promote all kind of different gameplay. I mean, do you really think that hitting a giant foe with a sword that look like a toothpick for him is a good way to kill it?)

On the other hand, if it’s a DPS check encounter (like what we currently have in dungeon) then the actual meta will stay meta… nothing will change and necro, due to the area where he is lacking, will be pushed out of the roster (Like he already is).

Enrage mechanics make sense because:

• it ensures a full turtle party won’t work
• it adds to the difficulty (see world boss)

I guess the devs assume that a full turtle party is more likely than a full zerker, and this is probably true in the beginning. I sincerely hope full zerker will never work, but many people seem to disagree with me in the PvE forum…

I can’t agree with you. In GW2 passive defense are to crapy to be viable enough to ensure a turtle party.
Don’t get me wrong, or get the zerk meta wrong. The zerk meta is here not only because it’s the fastest way to clean dungeon, it’s here because the longer you drag a fight, the higher your chance to wipe (due to a lack of active defense).

A dev that would think and fear a “turtle strategy” wouldn’t know a bit of it’s own game.

NB.: Pasive defense are fine for PvP though.

Passive defenses are very OP in this game. They are just slow. A group of nomad’s guardians can literally face tank lupi. No dodging, no active defenses required. Just passive defense and healing.

No one uses them anymore because all the fights are known and everyone knows exactly when to drop active defenses to avoid 99% of the damage.

At launch every single dungeon was cleared using only highly defensive builds and gear. Every group required at least 1 tank guardian to clear. The meta has changed due to learning the fights, but the devs should be very worried about full tank groups.

Necromancer cannot tank well because real tanks require continuous healing while holding aggro. Guardian or Warrior, maybe Ranger, too, can tank.

Necromancer would miss too much healing from being in Death Shroud.

Mesmer’s clones could be wiped leaving it vulnerable so it may be too squishy and Elementalist may be overwhelmed. Of the three Light armor professions, Necromancer is the tankiest but will only be able to soak medium sustained or brief burst damage.

A true tank will need bunker armor, protection, evades, blocks, and sustained major heals.

Necromancer can help at the front line with high weakness up time, Transfusion, blinds, Vampiric skills, chill, and so on but will probably not be able to survive constant focus fire.

Anchoku.8142:

Necromancer cannot tank well because real tanks require continuous healing while holding aggro. Guardian or Warrior, maybe Ranger, too, can tank.

Necromancer would miss too much healing from being in Death Shroud.

Mesmer’s clones could be wiped leaving it vulnerable so it may be too squishy and Elementalist may be overwhelmed. Of the three Light armor professions, Necromancer is the tankiest but will only be able to soak medium sustained or brief burst damage.

A true tank will need bunker armor, protection, evades, blocks, and sustained major heals.

Necromancer can help at the front line with high weakness up time, Transfusion, blinds, Vampiric skills, chill, and so on but will probably not be able to survive constant focus fire.

actually, with vampiric skills a necro is more self sufficient as a tank than any other class due to death shroud. (keep in mind its tied with Warrior for the highest base hp. its got multiple tiny hp heals on hits. and can be set up to have even more heals on top of that. and with a soldier build can have a frightening amount of defense.
i’m currently at 3.5k defense, 32k hp, 26k shroud, with my focus on power, i have vamperic, vamperic strikes, wells heal me, as well as minions, and using dagger to speed up the hits. also off hand dagger to send conditions to enemy, and necro’s shroud 4 skill is great for healing. also signet of the locust can provide a 12k heal if you have enemy enemies around you)

its weakness compared to other tanks is it requires enemies to hit in order to sustain its hp/death shroud combo.

if it has nothing to hit, it will die out with no healing.

if theres multiple things to hit at once, a necro is the strongest most durable tank in game. the more things to hit, the stronger it is.

if you don’t believe me thats your business. but my necro is set to recover alot of hp while in deathshroud, and recover alot of life force while outside of deathshroud. so its a constant combo.

…..and it bugged out in arah once where my party was trying to wipe to reset it. but my necro kept goign between hp and shroud and long story short took 3 minutes to die(finally dying because i sabotaged its own combo)

I like enrage timers in wow because due to the UI features its clear when its going to happen and with dps meters you know what step to take to avoid it. With anet being so stubborn on their stance regarding using a UI to be more useful than showing your skills it will be much harder to combat. However I wont pass judgement until I see how they implement the system.