Dhuumfire?
- Dhuumfire hits for about 3.5k fully stacked whereas condis from scepter hit for about 3k fully stacked (one enemy, not multi RS1 targets). This doesn’t include utility skills, since I can switch out of DS and use them on both builds.. Do these numbers sound accurate? I tested it on paper and on an in-game dummy and it seems to be consistent, just unsure if I’m missing something. Should I be including utility damage?
Necromancer’s damage come from bleed and poison, you can easily cap their duration for a dps increase and gain benefits from bleeding based sigil, staying in shroud lower your dps (except for 5-4 combo).
- Given that conditions can’t crit (unless that’s changed?) is there any purpose in taking Viper gear over Trailblazer gear? The extra power/precision seems tiny when I can instead have the toughness/vitality for more survivability.
Crit chance is useful for https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Barbed_Precision and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Nova (more and more bleed)
and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Target_the_Weak is good with some precision.
- Same question as above, but for Sinister trinkets/accessories/rings vs Dire ones.
For a condi build once you have capped the condition duration your damage can only increase with extra power/condition.
Necromancer’s damage come from bleed and poison, you can easily cap their duration for a dps increase and gain benefits from bleeding based sigil, staying in shroud lower your dps (except for 5-4 combo).
When running Lingering Scepter on curse, bleed/poison duration seem to cap extremely quickly and I think that’s where my biggest damage inhibitor is. I could be wrong though, so I’ll have to re-test when I get back online.
Crit chance is useful for https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Barbed_Precision and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Nova (more and more bleed)
and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Target_the_Weak is good with some precision.For a condi build once you have capped the condition duration your damage can only increase with extra power/condition.
All valid points I didn’t think about initially. Is this damage increase surmountable enough to offset the 9000ish health and 1000ish toughness gained from switching to Trailblazers/Dire – or is that more for completely maxing damage do you think?
Necromancer’s damage come from bleed and poison, you can easily cap their duration for a dps increase and gain benefits from bleeding based sigil, staying in shroud lower your dps (except for 5-4 combo).
When running Lingering Scepter on curse, bleed/poison duration seem to cap extremely quickly and I think that’s where my biggest damage inhibitor is. I could be wrong though, so I’ll have to re-test when I get back online.
Take into account Blood Is Power!: it’s not on scepter and gain a lot of damage from capped condition duration.
Bleeding not from scepter:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Barbed_Precision (crit 33%> bleed)
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Nova (AoE chill)
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Darkness (blind > chill)
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shivers_of_Dread (fear > chill) ..lol trait
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathly_Chill (chill > bleed)
Crit chance is useful for https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Barbed_Precision and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Nova (more and more bleed)
and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Target_the_Weak is good with some precision.For a condi build once you have capped the condition duration your damage can only increase with extra power/condition.
All valid points I didn’t think about initially. Is this damage increase surmountable enough to offset the 9000ish health and 1000ish toughness gained from switching to Trailblazers/Dire – or is that more for completely maxing damage do you think?
It’s only for minimal damage increase, vitality and toughness could also be a dps increase if prevent your death.
Take into account Blood Is Power!: it’s not on scepter and gain a lot of damage from capped condition duration.
Bleeding not from scepter:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Barbed_Precision (crit 33%> bleed)
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Nova (AoE chill)
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Darkness (blind > chill)
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shivers_of_Dread (fear > chill) ..lol trait
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathly_Chill (chill > bleed)
Will definitely re-run the tests with the full combo to make sure I’m not missing anything – these are minor details I didn’t look at before.
Lingering curse’s duration boost is only towards the scepter weapons skills and not to BiP and other sources of condis, correct? Does it increase BASE duration (separate from actual duration stacking) or does it now count into normal duration cap increase?
All things I used to know, but being away from the game has robbed me of that knowledge lol
Yeah, Lingering Curse only condition duration from scepter’s skill.
With 50% base condition duration your scepter’s skill have capped duration.
Yeah, Lingering Curse only condition duration from scepter’s skill.
With 50% base condition duration your scepter’s skill have capped duration.
Wrong. Lingering curse doesnt count for the max duration (see https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lingering_Curse). Lingering curse increases simply the base duration of all scepter conditions. So for example your bleeds of grasping dead will be 15 sec multiplicated with your condition duration modifer. With 50% condition duration that would be 15*1.5=22.5 sec. Capped condition duration without the trait would give only 10*2=20 sec (with the trait it is 30 sec). So there is a difference.
Yeah, Lingering Curse only condition duration from scepter’s skill.
With 50% base condition duration your scepter’s skill have capped duration.Wrong. Lingering curse doesnt count for the max duration (see https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lingering_Curse). Lingering curse increases simply the base duration of all scepter conditions. So for example your bleeds of grasping dead will be 15 sec multiplicated with your condition duration modifer. With 50% condition duration that would be 15*1.5=22.5 sec. Capped condition duration without the trait would give only 10*2=20 sec (with the trait it is 30 sec). So there is a difference.
My bad then, my response was based on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ ’s tooltip.
Never liked the Dhuumfire as it is now. Necro has no traits to support burning and you get very little burning from what is a “Grandmaster” trait. Never worth it IMO.
Vee/Volk
Maguuma – Predatory Instinct [HUNT]
Necromancer
Maguuma – Predatory Instinct [HUNT]
Necromancer
Never liked the Dhuumfire as it is now. Necro has no traits to support burning and you get very little burning from what is a “Grandmaster” trait. Never worth it IMO.
I’d love if they reverted it to be like Incendiary Powder again.
Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death.
Never liked the Dhuumfire as it is now. Necro has no traits to support burning and you get very little burning from what is a “Grandmaster” trait. Never worth it IMO.
In PvP/WvW, it’s a good cover condition. That’s about all it has use for. Less conditions = easier to cleanse.
Necromancer, Ranger, Warrior, Engineer
Champion: Phantom, Hunter, Legionnaire, Genius
WvW rank: Diamond Colonel | Maguuma
Champion: Phantom, Hunter, Legionnaire, Genius
WvW rank: Diamond Colonel | Maguuma
Never liked the Dhuumfire as it is now. Necro has no traits to support burning and you get very little burning from what is a “Grandmaster” trait. Never worth it IMO.
In PvP/WvW, it’s a good cover condition. That’s about all it has use for. Less conditions = easier to cleanse.
Yeah, it can cover fine, but the cost to access it is too high. A grandmaster trait should not be a “cover condition”. I’d rather invest into reapplication than covering.
Vee/Volk
Maguuma – Predatory Instinct [HUNT]
Necromancer
Maguuma – Predatory Instinct [HUNT]
Necromancer
Never liked the Dhuumfire as it is now. Necro has no traits to support burning and you get very little burning from what is a “Grandmaster” trait. Never worth it IMO.
In PvP/WvW, it’s a good cover condition. That’s about all it has use for. Less conditions = easier to cleanse.
Yeah, it can cover fine, but the cost to access it is too high. A grandmaster trait should not be a “cover condition”. I’d rather invest into reapplication than covering.
It’s a lot less underwhelming in a condition spite build than it is in a curses build since you’re stacking might with every swing too.
Dhuumfire reaper is amazing. I run it with trailblazers and I’m just as tanky as a nomads guardian and can dish out over 5000 dps just from burning, without consumables. You can trait for constant 25 vulnerability if you’re on your own, as well as have a full stack of might for yourself within a few seconds. With the aoe swing of reapers 1,trash mobs die very quickly, and along with rise you’re extremely sustainable against bosses. It’s an amazing pve build. Hard to say in pvp since there’s no trailblazers but with carrion it still works alright. Run sigil of bursting and smoldering along with runes of balthazar, then whichever pizzas you fancy and the crystals (I think) for condition damage from %toughness. Might have those consumables mixed up.
Tldr. I completely prefer trailblazers Dhuumfire over bleeding/poison necro.
in pvp you’ll probably get about 2 hits in before they escape your range.
I can apply over 3 stacks of bleeding.
in pvp you’ll probably get about 2 hits in before they escape your range.
In higher levels, yeah, this will most likely be the case. I can still go toe-to-toe with ranked friends when it’s a duel, but yeah it’d be tough to catch them if they’re running away. You have enough control between greatsword and dagger/warhorn (weapons I run for LF-building) to pin down opponents in short fights, but longer ones would be tough.
Foot in the Grave is hard to pass up for most builds I use and, even with a condition damage build, critical hits with Death Perception do damage, too.
I do, occasionally, use Dhuumfire when I expect to do heavy AoE condition damage with minimal incoming CC.
Glad to see so many responses.
After more testing, I find it beneficial to actually use BOTH builds simultaneously. They can both be successful with similar stats (trailblazers) and with the right foods/sigils, my armor can provide 100% duration for poison, bleed AND burn.
It would be more beneficial and do more DPS if I had an armor set for each – but that’s not a major on my priority list – maybe once its easier to swap gear sets quickly.
In general, I always have Reaper traited, but will switch between Death Magic, Curses and Soul Reaping depending upon the situation:
Curse/DM – most Dungeon boss fights where it’s a single target burn and curse does more DPS
SR/DM – Anytime there’s a large group of smaller mobs, Dhuumfire can do some substantial damage. Usually use this when I’m not fighting a dungeon/fractal boss or when I need more survivability than Curse/DM provides.
Curse/SR – Usually use this on world bosses. lets me switch between damage types and works if I’m not going to benefit from pets, like some of the world bosses.
Glad to see so many responses.
After more testing, I find it beneficial to actually use BOTH builds simultaneously. They can both be successful with similar stats (trailblazers) and with the right foods/sigils, my armor can provide 100% duration for poison, bleed AND burn.
It would be more beneficial and do more DPS if I had an armor set for each – but that’s not a major on my priority list – maybe once its easier to swap gear sets quickly.
In general, I always have Reaper traited, but will switch between Death Magic, Curses and Soul Reaping depending upon the situation:
Curse/DM – most Dungeon boss fights where it’s a single target burn and curse does more DPS
SR/DM – Anytime there’s a large group of smaller mobs, Dhuumfire can do some substantial damage. Usually use this when I’m not fighting a dungeon/fractal boss or when I need more survivability than Curse/DM provides.
Curse/SR – Usually use this on world bosses. lets me switch between damage types and works if I’m not going to benefit from pets, like some of the world bosses.
What no spite or blood magic? And Death magic is terrible nowadays since the minion nerf.
(edited by FrostDraco.8306)
in pvp you’ll probably get about 2 hits in before they escape your range.
U thinking bad , thats why u think so, u should avoid chasing and 1v1, reason dhumfire is good , is because u cleave , down players and such.
What no spite or blood magic? And Death magic is terrible nowadays since the minion nerf.
To be honest, I haven’t toyed with Spite or BM yet since returning to the game, so that’s my biggest reason. Have to look into the changes since the last time I played.
My biggest qualm with Spite was that it mainly seemed to be there just to stack Might/Vuln, which always ended up useless because I’d get full Might/Vuln from those around me. Spite does have some other flat damage increases that may make up for it, I just have to look into it more.
I do like BM and my pre-HoT build used to use it, but I always felt like the siphoning was underwhelming, unless I was using a dagger and wells (which doesn’t seem as viable with the condition damage build).
Could be totally wrong, however. Like I said, it’s been awhile since I’ve played and I’m not quite as in-tune with what works/doesn’t work as I used to be.
What no spite or blood magic? And Death magic is terrible nowadays since the minion nerf.
My biggest qualm with Spite was that it mainly seemed to be there just to stack Might/Vuln, which always ended up useless because I’d get full Might/Vuln from those around me. Spite does have some other flat damage increases that may make up for it, I just have to look into it more.
Spite goes hand in hand with a dhuumfire build since so much of spite revolves around making yourself stronger by spamming Shroud 1, which I mean, if you’re set on using dhuumfire for PvE, you’re going to be doing a lot of.
Spite goes hand in hand with a dhuumfire build since so much of spite revolves around making yourself stronger by spamming Shroud 1, which I mean, if you’re set on using dhuumfire for PvE, you’re going to be doing a lot of.
Did some testing on this, and think I found a happy medium.
Spite definitely makes a difference on more solo-oriented PvE content. Between the might-stacking and Blighter’s Boon, it seems to be quite good (at least from what I’ve noticed).
I think in fractal/raid groups – especially if there’s a PS Warrior or another heavy might-stacker – BM tends to work better. The might-stacking doesn’t seem to help as much if you’re already capped on might.
Could still be missing something, but your advice was helpful.
Spite goes hand in hand with a dhuumfire build since so much of spite revolves around making yourself stronger by spamming Shroud 1, which I mean, if you’re set on using dhuumfire for PvE, you’re going to be doing a lot of.
Did some testing on this, and think I found a happy medium.
Spite definitely makes a difference on more solo-oriented PvE content. Between the might-stacking and Blighter’s Boon, it seems to be quite good (at least from what I’ve noticed).
I think in fractal/raid groups – especially if there’s a PS Warrior or another heavy might-stacker – BM tends to work better. The might-stacking doesn’t seem to help as much if you’re already capped on might.
Could still be missing something, but your advice was helpful.
Maybe its just my own experience but I never see ps warriors or any idea of might gives in fractals anymore. Elitism went out the window with HoT release and it seems most people bringing party support went with it.
I just prepare to be self-sufficient, like bringing Bitter chill instead of Spiteful Talisman, so less than 25 vuln isn’t a problem.
Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death.
Spite goes hand in hand with a dhuumfire build since so much of spite revolves around making yourself stronger by spamming Shroud 1, which I mean, if you’re set on using dhuumfire for PvE, you’re going to be doing a lot of.
Did some testing on this, and think I found a happy medium.
Spite definitely makes a difference on more solo-oriented PvE content. Between the might-stacking and Blighter’s Boon, it seems to be quite good (at least from what I’ve noticed).
I think in fractal/raid groups – especially if there’s a PS Warrior or another heavy might-stacker – BM tends to work better. The might-stacking doesn’t seem to help as much if you’re already capped on might.
Could still be missing something, but your advice was helpful.
Maybe its just my own experience but I never see ps warriors or any idea of might gives in fractals anymore. Elitism went out the window with HoT release and it seems most people bringing party support went with it.
I just prepare to be self-sufficient, like bringing Bitter chill instead of Spiteful Talisman, so less than 25 vuln isn’t a problem.
That’s bull. Considering most of the meta builds for every class but thief are heavily based on party support.
Spite goes hand in hand with a dhuumfire build since so much of spite revolves around making yourself stronger by spamming Shroud 1, which I mean, if you’re set on using dhuumfire for PvE, you’re going to be doing a lot of.
Did some testing on this, and think I found a happy medium.
Spite definitely makes a difference on more solo-oriented PvE content. Between the might-stacking and Blighter’s Boon, it seems to be quite good (at least from what I’ve noticed).
I think in fractal/raid groups – especially if there’s a PS Warrior or another heavy might-stacker – BM tends to work better. The might-stacking doesn’t seem to help as much if you’re already capped on might.
Could still be missing something, but your advice was helpful.
Maybe its just my own experience but I never see ps warriors or any idea of might gives in fractals anymore. Elitism went out the window with HoT release and it seems most people bringing party support went with it.
I just prepare to be self-sufficient, like bringing Bitter chill instead of Spiteful Talisman, so less than 25 vuln isn’t a problem.That’s bull. Considering most of the meta builds for every class but thief are heavily based on party support.
What I mean is, even for t4s, people are pretty lax in what you can bring. Having banners/ea/spotter/frost spirit etc etc is a very very rare sight in a pug group. And my personal experience is that ps warriors are extremely rare.
Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death.
Since raids were introduced fractals seem more casual.
Spite goes hand in hand with a dhuumfire build since so much of spite revolves around making yourself stronger by spamming Shroud 1, which I mean, if you’re set on using dhuumfire for PvE, you’re going to be doing a lot of.
Did some testing on this, and think I found a happy medium.
Spite definitely makes a difference on more solo-oriented PvE content. Between the might-stacking and Blighter’s Boon, it seems to be quite good (at least from what I’ve noticed).
I think in fractal/raid groups – especially if there’s a PS Warrior or another heavy might-stacker – BM tends to work better. The might-stacking doesn’t seem to help as much if you’re already capped on might.
Could still be missing something, but your advice was helpful.
Maybe its just my own experience but I never see ps warriors or any idea of might gives in fractals anymore. Elitism went out the window with HoT release and it seems most people bringing party support went with it.
I just prepare to be self-sufficient, like bringing Bitter chill instead of Spiteful Talisman, so less than 25 vuln isn’t a problem.That’s bull. Considering most of the meta builds for every class but thief are heavily based on party support.
What I mean is, even for t4s, people are pretty lax in what you can bring. Having banners/ea/spotter/frost spirit etc etc is a very very rare sight in a pug group. And my personal experience is that ps warriors are extremely rare.
They are rare because of how unforgiving fractals is to melee, and classes with low sustain. Going PS party support basically gives all that up, so you have a point.
However frost spirit isn’t rare in my experience. If anything there are too many druids and not enough of other kinds of buffs.
Fractals has indeed become more lax lately tho, and I for one am happy with that. Maybe its because know people know what they are doing? Who knows. I know i don’t find my self having to hold my party’s hand as often, so thats a plus.