Dhuumfire nerf/Deathshroud buff?

Dhuumfire nerf/Deathshroud buff?

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Posted by: Lily.1935

Lily.1935

Many people are talking about the Dhuumfire change that is coming up. And many people seem to be upset while others are saying “It needed to happen.” Well I have a response to that, but I don’t think anyone is going to like it.

From what I can tell, the Dhuumfire change is actually a “Buff”. I put quotations around it because I don’t believe this is the right way to “buff” death shroud. Yes, that is right. This isn’t a buff to Dhuumfire, its a buff to death shroud. But in a rather backwards thinking sort of way. The change is to Force condition necromancers to use death shroud more in their build.

Here is what appears to be the thinking in my opinion. The devs see that the necromancer community wants death shroud to be more involved with their builds. At the moment, only power builds seem to care about death shroud beyond a way to soak up a hit or two. With this change it forces players to use death shroud more often.

Here is the problem. The necromancer community doesn’t want to be forced to use something. No one does. Rather then providing a reasonable reason for Necromancer players to enter death shroud, such as improving ally support, giving the ability to sustain condition damage while in ds, Arena net has taken the rout of changing the function of a necessary trait in a build to force ds use rather then making people want to use it.

Now, I don’t think I speak for myself when I say that I would love to have an alternative grandmaster/master trait so I didn’t have to run dhuumfire. But there isn’t another option. I don’t run Dhuumfire because I think its “The best thing ever!” but rather because my damage output requires it. Without it, my battles become much much slower and drag out much too long. This trait gives me that extra burst of damage that I need. And there isn’t an alternative I can take. Dhuumfire becomes our only choice.

If arena net really wants us to actually want to use death shroud, they would give us a reason to stay in death shroud as a condi build through other traits rather then forcing it down our throats.

I have to politely disagree with the methods used by arena net in order to balance death shroud. For that matter, I disagree with how they balance our profession. But I can’t do anything about this because I have no power to move the developers decision on anything, which has become evident through their responses to my and others posts on other matters.

But to be fair, the developers have yet to sway my opinion of them in their favor. It seems to be they do listen to the community but have a real hard time actually hearing what we are saying. I feel that this might be because they don’t actively communicate with us to get a bigger picture of the concerns and issues we are having. Many of us have spent over a thousand hours on the game, or just on our necromancers alone, and if there is a dev who has spent even half as much time on the necromancer as we have they are not communicating with us and haven’t let themselves be known.

So I ask that arena net open communications with us much more frequently. Even if its just a controlled setting like giving us a feedback quiz every so often to see at least a basic idea of what the community is asking. Some questions like “How often do you use X”, “Why do you use it?” “Rate these X on usability.” “Rate these X on fun.” “On a scale of 1-10 how good is X” so on and so on. The reason for this is because I know you have data on whats being used most. But the data doesn’t tell you how much the individual actually enjoys them or if they might desire something else but are stuck in a single build.

Anyway, I’m done rambling. I hope to hear from all of you.

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Posted by: Leeto.1570

Leeto.1570

It is a buff but its a powermancer buff because dhuumfire is a powermancer trait, and their not forcing condimancer use death shroud more their trying to force condimancers to stop using dhuumfire and go back to condition traitlines.

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Posted by: Zaganna.6034

Zaganna.6034

I’m sorry to disagree. Condition necros still needed to use ds (2#. 5# and 3# with Terror), that’s why (Imho) this change will not affect that much.
Still they don’t stand inside that much like power builds, but look at the internal cd of Dhuumfire…10sec?
I’ll just spamming my DS evrey 10 sec and use evrey skill i’m ready to cast, and than 1 last lifeblast for apply burning.

A thing I didn’t read yet is someone makeng builds or theory with the fact that Dhuumfire will not be anymore realeted to precision.
A full Dire necro would be cut of from Dhuumfire. But tomorrow he could use a more bunker build and still have a burst condi using 30 points in spite.

(edited by Zaganna.6034)

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Posted by: kekuso.5837

kekuso.5837

Its a buff because you can choose when to apply burning instead of it being random. It does remain to be seen if this proc will be avoidable, or if it will always proc on the first DS#1 that hits.

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Posted by: unleashed.8679

unleashed.8679

Compared to Incendiary Powder it is a really strong nerf for the Necro.
Why is dhuumfire bound to deathshround, while applying less burning (2/3s) and being a grand master trait?
If they do this, the engineers trait should also be coupled to special kits (his trait line is focused on bombs, grenades and mines). just for balance reasons.

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

In my opinion if it doesn’t get moved to Master level it is a nerf. With it being tied to DeathShroud and it having a lower duration even with more Condition Duration than IP it is a joke that it would be kept as Grandmaster trait when Engineer can easily achieve Perma burning anyway.

This change won’t make much different Condition builds will still be forced into taking it thanks to the nerfs to other conditions and i don’t see many Powermancers taking it as the Close To Death trait is in my opinion better.

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Posted by: Rennoko.5731

Rennoko.5731

I had originally though this wouldn’t be a problem, but there are just too many situations where I don’t have the time to, or cannot land a LB on a target. And to spend the time trying, especially if it is evading around me in melee range is just a waste of time.

You see DS3 hits no matter what facing I have, and the same with DS5. DS2, requires me to be facing them when the cast starts (which I can stand still and hit 2 for it to auto-face me), but then I can run away or turn away and it will still hit.

LB is so clunky in that I have to have the target in front of me at the end of the cast, and so often targets are not where they need to be when that happens. I could opt for a long range LB opener to get the burn on, but I lose my long range mark pressure, and I give up my doom when I need it after leaving DS to start applying conditions.

There really isn’t much to say about it. If burning had been introduced this way, I think it would have been much more balanced, and things like the move of GM, the move of terror, the nerf of terror, and so many other things could have been avoided.

Now though, you have to ask the question about what will make up for this change.

Also when does any of these changes take place? The streaming folks said the “feature” patch… there seems to be come confusion on if that is the upcoming patch or that future balancing patch sometime in the distance future.

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Posted by: citizankane.5723

citizankane.5723

Maybe life blast should add bleeds as well cause switching to ds to cast tainted shackles and life blast to add burning you would lose so much bleed stacking time it probably wouldn’t be worth it.

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Posted by: Ghostextechnica.3270

Ghostextechnica.3270

It is a buff but its a powermancer buff because dhuumfire is a powermancer trait, and their not forcing condimancer use death shroud more their trying to force condimancers to stop using dhuumfire and go back to condition traitlines.

It’s not a powermancer buff.

Powermancers take ‘Close to Death’ as our grandmaster Spite trait 100% of the time. It gives us way more damage than Dhuumfire.

When I get that feeling I want… spectral healing.

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Posted by: Xehanort.4589

Xehanort.4589

I don’t understand the thinking process behind the dhuumfire nerf. What i would have done is: dhuumfire hits less often —→ burning duration must be increased, not reduced. Lately I haven’t played the game at all and ignored buying anything from the gem store, because it is a dark time for Gw2, we don’t know how our poor necros will be treated in the upcoming patches, but seen this I already know that I’ll keep ignoring the game as long as they won’t come up with something well thought about my beloved necro, because that’s the only class I can stand playing. They are nerfing two builds with this change, the hybrid and the offensive conditionmancer. Thiking of it, we will be able to do that life blast every 10 sec + cast time, that’s about 12 seconds, but the trait replenishes every 10 seconds, how does that even make sense. And no, noone is going to put 30 points in Soul Reaping for the 3 second reduction in the Death Shroud recharge. Even if you stay full 10 seconds in Death shroud you’ll lose dps anyway so this is not even a viable way. I’m sure that noone in the balance team mains a necro.

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Posted by: draugris.9872

draugris.9872

I’m sure that noone in the balance team mains a necro.

The history of necro patches is a 100% proof of that

Mondsucht [MS] – Kodash

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Posted by: IlMattoCavaliere.4013

IlMattoCavaliere.4013

The devs see that the necromancer community wants death shroud to be more involved with their builds.

Are you kittening kidding me?
Necromancer community wants a necro that can be used at the same level as the other profession.
It’s frustrating to being kicked out from some party in LFG ‘cause they don’t want Necro in Dungeon and/or Fractal.

We sucks.
I’ve tried a lot of build: conditionmancer, zerker, tanker with siphon…
We are not a treat in pvp (with the exception of MM so called “Noob build”), we can be an help in WvW but we are not necessary and in PvE we are one of the last choice.

That is not dead which can eternal lie
And with strange aeons even death may die.

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Posted by: djooceboxblast.9876

djooceboxblast.9876

I had originally though this wouldn’t be a problem, but there are just too many situations where I don’t have the time to, or cannot land a LB on a target. And to spend the time trying, especially if it is evading around me in melee range is just a waste of time.

You see DS3 hits no matter what facing I have, and the same with DS5. DS2, requires me to be facing them when the cast starts (which I can stand still and hit 2 for it to auto-face me), but then I can run away or turn away and it will still hit.

LB is so clunky in that I have to have the target in front of me at the end of the cast, and so often targets are not where they need to be when that happens. I could opt for a long range LB opener to get the burn on, but I lose my long range mark pressure, and I give up my doom when I need it after leaving DS to start applying conditions.

There really isn’t much to say about it. If burning had been introduced this way, I think it would have been much more balanced, and things like the move of GM, the move of terror, the nerf of terror, and so many other things could have been avoided.

Now though, you have to ask the question about what will make up for this change.

Also when does any of these changes take place? The streaming folks said the “feature” patch… there seems to be come confusion on if that is the upcoming patch or that future balancing patch sometime in the distance future.

I could not agree more. Life blast is unreliable as it is and will make dhuumfire unreliable aswell, atleast against certain professions who evade most of the time and use stealth!

I really hope they make up for this change and revert the other nerfs to weakening shroud, grasping dead, mark of blood and buff certain traits and lines to a viable state.

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Posted by: Pendragon.8735

Pendragon.8735

I doubt there will be a buff trade-off we get back in return. Necro’s begged for Dhuumfire changes, now they got one, a bad one, on top of a dozen nerfs already made to account for it over the last few months.

Lifeblast is too slow as a proc, how much more telegraph does an opponent need, when Necro goes into DS that is your prompt to get ready to dodge or mitigate.

At least I didn’t build rabid ascended armor, geesh. Hardly logging in as it is, Anet changes give little incentive for that to change.

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Posted by: Lily.1935

Lily.1935

I’m sorry to disagree. Condition necros still needed to use ds (2#. 5# and 3# with Terror), that’s why (Imho) this change will not affect that much.
Still they don’t stand inside that much like power builds, but look at the internal cd of Dhuumfire…10sec?
I’ll just spamming my DS evrey 10 sec and use evrey skill i’m ready to cast, and than 1 last lifeblast for apply burning.

A thing I didn’t read yet is someone makeng builds or theory with the fact that Dhuumfire will not be anymore realeted to precision.
A full Dire necro would be cut of from Dhuumfire. But tomorrow he could use a more bunker build and still have a burst condi using 30 points in spite.

Disagree with what? I never said “Condi necros never use death shroud.” I said “They don’t like to stay in death shroud.” Big difference.