Guild Wars 2

I did some searching on how we could get Damage over that Elementalist treshold of 2 k hp , (water attuned) with a 750hp regen on heal with our weapon sets.

Without DS #1 traited Soulreaping A VI Unyielding Blast,
it is simply not possible.. unless you want the ele to heal to full after you did all your weapon rotations.

Or blow your utilities at the start hoping the ele is a scrub and doesn’t know how to heal.

So bring axe/focus on a power build to strip the regen off and get DS up that is all you can do.
follow up with your weapon skills to stack conditions.. wait for the cleanse/heal then start all over again and hope someone comes along to help.

the trick to counter this Diamond skin is getting your DS up as fast and much as possible..

How Anet thinks we are “the” attrition profession and then hit all other classes with artrition like healing i do not know

As someone who mains both of these classes ~600 hours nec and ~600 hours ele, I suggested the following when diamond skin was first announced. This mechanics of this trait should be immune to condition damage when above X% of health, but not immune to conditions. Basically conditions should still get applied to the elementalist, but all condition damage would be zero while health is above the threshold.

The reason for this type of implementation is that the Necro has very limited access to any boons, but receives boon-like benefits through debuffing the target. Under this approach, the health threshold could even be lowered to 75-80%, but this way soft CC and debuffs could still be applied. Also, for Necros looking for a counter to diamond skin, you should try some builds with high retaliation uptime.

I feel that would be pretty reasonable. Change “conditions” to “condition damage” and drop the health % to 80-85%

Draehl.2681:

I feel that would be pretty reasonable. Change “conditions” to “condition damage” and drop the health % to 80-85%

Agreed. On top of that, it would mean condition necros could at least apply poison to attempt to get an edge on the damage vs. healing front. They would still have a difficult time getting through that first 10 (or 20)% health, but at least it wouldn’t be impossible.

Alternatively, give it some benefit against direct damage as well and keep the threshold at 90%.

Tvvat.8401:

Also, for Necros looking for a counter to diamond skin, you should try some builds with high retaliation uptime.

Interesting idea, but retaliation on a condi Necro basically falls to on DS, and you’re looking at only a few seconds of retal that the ele can just wait out (while still being immune to your damage) and then go back to attacking. It would obviously force the tiniest bit of counterplay and its a decent idea, but it still requires the ele to completely screw up, instead of actual skill.

Nemesis.8593:

Fasyx.9347:

It was time for Anet to do something about the overpowered condition meta(especially necros). No need to rage.

And by the way: eles are the squishiest in the game and have low armor, if you cant get them < 90% health you are in fact a bad player. Think about it…and dont tell me “But my build is based on condi dmg”. You cant have a build to counter every other class in the game, so please stop crying. Necros are already tough as hell.

Hahahaha… do you play your class with more then 4 buttons ?

If you mean “than”, then yes (dat wordplay by me, give me a cookie!)

Yeah, pretty much. Summon fgs, teleport, fiery rush. Over. That´s it! When enemy isn´t death I´ll cry “OP”
Exactly, you´ve got me bro

I play wvw alot and my main class now is a Condition Necromancer. I’ve recently just got all my ascended accessories and nearly have 1 ascended armour. Some people say tell me change a damage necro or switch gear, but that would become a painfully annoying grind again to reaquire more ascended stuff..If all you do is wvw then ascended is already a painful enough grind.

Last night I was defending wurm gate on bay against a small group. My conditions backed them away and then the ele comes over and holds on the ram. I was unable to scratch the ele at all to get below the 90% threshold. Also when fighting 1vs1 against an ele, the same thing. I couldn’t even use corrupt boon to remove all the buffs it had. In the process unable to remove that regeneration which stops me even more in getting it below the 90% mark..

I know, every class should have a weakness and conditions are pretty strong. But its unfair to make something that becomes immune to one of the two damage types. Make it have a strong defence against something but not completely immune. Imagine peoples reaction if Necros got a similar trait “Gain immunity to direct damage while above 90% health, only able to take condition damage”..Necro’s can send conditions to enemies which would be similar to the Ele’s near perma regen, which makes getting below the 90% mark even more difficult.

I’m not saying Diamond skin should be removed completely, its a good counter and would make some fights more fun. Its just completely one sided, like a tier 5 wvw server going against a t1. You already know who will win. Theres no counter.

My suggestion would be to keep diamond skin a good trait vs conditions still. But instead of 100% reduce condition duriation and damage by 33%, 50% or even 60%. That there makes them strong against bursting condimancers. Yet still gives us a chance to at least fight back, bringing skill back into play and timing abilities just right.

Recent patches have also seen more condition removals on classes, I agree that they was needed. It just seems the last 2 patches have really ade conditions much more worthless. I don’t think condimancers are easy to play, I drarely find myself auto attacking and kiting (only when all skills are on CD). I use utilities, skills and then swap weapons. Only have to auto attack when things are on their long cooldowns.

Its funny when people say Necro’s are overpowered. We have 1 decent stability which comes from plague form. Where, as we know, can’t recieve healing or use any of our normal skills like other classes. Not to mention it has a 180 sec cooldown. Stun breakers that we have also have very long cooldowns aswell compaired to other classes. Hammer warriors just ping pong me around and theres little I can do.

Getting away from fights is already hard enough, ele’s have ride the lightening and other things. mesmers are able to stealth and teleport. We have Death Shroud, which doesn’t give us any ability to create some distance to heal up (which our best heal has a longer cast time than other classes too..). While not being able to create some distance, we can get rooted and stunned while conditions build up.

So to say condition necros are OP is just people saying so because they don’t play one. I’d like to say guardians are OP, but I havn’t played one, so I only know their strengths. Not right for me to judge an OP class because I havn’t played it.

Rant over =P I hope to see Diamond Skin reworked, to make it balanced.

Wtf makes people here think that just changing the trait to immunity to condition damage will solve the problem? Wow! So instead of pressuring or defeating a condi immune build we can instead chill or cripple them to potentially, and only very slightly, delay our demise. Oh boy! The problem isn’t just immunity to our cc, but also our damage.

xev.9476:

Wtf makes people here think that just changing the trait to immunity to condition damage will solve the problem? Wow! So instead of pressuring or defeating a condi immune build we can instead chill or cripple them to potentially, and only very slightly, delay our demise. Oh boy! The problem isn’t just immunity to our cc, but also our damage.

Being able to CC them buys us time to actually bring them below 90%. Without being able to do that, we just die too fast.

More specifically, it means we can poison the ele and cut their healing. Cut healing means they have a much harder time staying above 90%.

xev.9476:

Wtf makes people here think that just changing the trait to immunity to condition damage will solve the problem? Wow! So instead of pressuring or defeating a condi immune build we can instead chill or cripple them to potentially, and only very slightly, delay our demise. Oh boy! The problem isn’t just immunity to our cc, but also our damage.

I’m guessing those are power necros that feel it’s fine for diamond skin to completely shut down condition necros as long as they can still use their CC.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

I did some searching on how we could get Damage over that Elementalist treshold of 2 k hp , (water attuned) with a 750hp regen on heal with our weapon sets.

Without DS #1 traited Soulreaping A VI Unyielding Blast,
it is simply not possible.. unless you want the ele to heal to full after you did all your weapon rotations.

Or blow your utilities at the start hoping the ele is a scrub and doesn’t know how to heal.

So bring axe/focus on a power build to strip the regen off and get DS up that is all you can do.
follow up with your weapon skills to stack conditions.. wait for the cleanse/heal then start all over again and hope someone comes along to help.

the trick to counter this Diamond skin is getting your DS up as fast and much as possible..

How Anet thinks we are “the” attrition profession and then hit all other classes with artrition like healing i do not know

whoa now, i like your ambition but you are spewing out some ridiculously made up numbers.

What you just said is the equivalent of me saying “warriors can do 20k damage in one attack, have 2,000 regen a second, area CC with hammer, stability for 30 seconds, all in the same build.”

Do you see how f-ing ridiculous that sounds? Its slightly comparable to warriors, but in no way at all is it remotely true.

An ele with 750hp regen a second is not possible. literally not possible. I mean, literally.
A- if an ele is literally sitting in water attunement as you say he is, hes not killing you. LOL
B- the highest amount of regen an ele can get is 450. (regen boon and soothing mist). And the regen is on extremely low durations.
C- And then IF the ele had a regen of 450, his threshold would be extremely low, near 1,200, not 2,000 due to the healing power stat being there and not vitality stat.
D- if an ele could run 0-0-30-30-30, he would. news flash though, he can’t. theres no such thing as an ele healing to full with water if hes running d-skin. max heals with d-skin=1500 every 15+ seconds if traited(which also means he isnt running any offensive traits).

TL;DR- don’t spew out bs’d numbers.

PS- this is an ele trait, move this to ele forums. why on earth this is in necro forums?

xev.9476:

Wtf makes people here think that just changing the trait to immunity to condition damage will solve the problem? Wow! So instead of pressuring or defeating a condi immune build we can instead chill or cripple them to potentially, and only very slightly, delay our demise. Oh boy! The problem isn’t just immunity to our cc, but also our damage.

It’ll let you get in real close with your daggers and actually land significant power damage.
Full Condi should have a counter – like everything else should have a counter. Min/max builds shouldn’t always be superior to hybrids because otherwise hybrids aren’t viable. Things like making this immunity to Condi damage would be ok – you’ll spec full condi knowing that 1/X fights you’ll lose due to this, so hybrids become more appealing. However, without cripple/chill, hybrid and power necros, which were already UP according to the meta, are just pushed further out.

Necros don’t have any passive regen, so yes, the ele sitting in water attunement is killing us. Slowly, perhaps, but still killing us.

And the 750 is not only counting Soothing Mist and Regeneration, but also Signet of Restoration. Actually, this contributes more than Regeneration and is very much constant.

Really? We’re upset because this jacks condi builds and we want the trait changed to accommodate power builds?

xev.9476:

Really? We’re upset because this jacks condi builds and we want the trait changed to accommodate power builds?

Since necro power builds rely on conditions as well, yes.

xev.9476:

Really? We’re upset because this jacks condi builds and we want the trait changed to accommodate power builds?

That’s why I’m upset. In an ideal world, with all builds equal, spec’ing a max/min build for condition damage shouldn’t be the best in all scenarios. Doing so is your choice, and you’ll just be making that knowing that Diamond Skin exists. The purpose of a hybrid is to be a build that is exactly average for that profession, while max/min condi/power are extremes that can be more powerful, but are easier to counter.
However, the problem is that trading some Condi damage for power is already sub-par due to our current balance, and this trait just makes that trade-off worse since it makes power based hits harder to land as we lose all of our control conditions like Chill and Cripple.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Necros don’t have any passive regen, so yes, the ele sitting in water attunement is killing us. Slowly, perhaps, but still killing us.

And the 750 is not only counting Soothing Mist and Regeneration, but also Signet of Restoration. Actually, this contributes more than Regeneration and is very much constant.

signet is not consistent but it does add as you say. signet doesnt protect you if we get dropped below the threshold. and utilizing signet in such a way (as ive said) will only leave you with a threshold of 1k.
The type of build you are describing means this- The ele is not going to kill you. period. since when are bunkers bad now in 1v1’s. they can’t kill you, you can’t kill them. its been that way a while with other professions, why is it bad all of a sudden for eles? to say that eles are killing you while utilizing this spec is the equivalent of saying bunker guardians are killing you. you even said it yourself " slowly " yea, lets nerf eles again and keep them in t3. lol. sorry, our time to shine. And as if we are even shining that hard too. yayy! eles can go bunker again! against one specific build on one specific profession! ;D

The Game Slayer.7632:

our time to shine

Since you keep bringing this up, let me point out that Ele’s have already had their time to shine – back about a year ago when Cantrip D/D specs were everywhere and RtL didn’t have separate cooldowns. So there, argument null.

Balefire.7592:

The Game Slayer.7632:

our time to shine

had their time to shine – back about a year ago

LOL.

Focusing on cc conditions just seems to miss the point to me. The issue is immunity to a whole damage type – damage, not just cc. As a condi build, in 1v1 and 1v2 situations I need to be able not just to apply cc, but to pressure them with damaging conditions. A proposed “fix” to condition damage immunity does nothing to help me in those situations.

The Game Slayer.7632:

Balefire.7592:

The Game Slayer.7632:

our time to shine

back about a year ago

LOL.

If you’re posting an absurd argument, don’t expect a rational response.
Balance means balance means equality. “Time to shine” is the exact opposite of that.

xev.9476:

Focusing on cc conditions just seems to miss the point to me. The issue is immunity to a whole damage type – damage, not just cc. As a condi build, in 1v1 and 1v2 situations I need to be able not just to apply cc, but to pressure them with damaging conditions. A proposed “fix” to condition damage immunity does nothing to help me in those situations.

But that should be the trade off of going full Condi. If you’re afraid of Diamond Skin, you would spec for a little bit more power. However, right now, doing so is completely pointless as it just puts you in a worse spot, not a better one.

Balefire.7592:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Balefire.7592:

The Game Slayer.7632:

our time to shine

back about a year ago

LOL.

If you’re posting an absurd argument, don’t expect a rational response.
Balance means balance means equality. “Time to shine” is the exact opposite of that.

except youve missed the very point i actually made earlier. A perfectly balanced game is a game like chess, or checkers. The system of balancing gw2 uses is called perfect imbalance. let me send you a link to a video that would much much better describe it than me.

So, I have no issues with it in wvw roaming. It counters the Dire armor users. I can just hop into DS and get them below the threashold in rabid. Quite quickly. As far as spvp, I dont do it, can’t comment on it.

I will agree fights are harder now. Oh well. I also agree that the condi should be applied but no damage done. Makes sense to me, but I dont think it will happen. Maybe a build adjustment is in order. But is is only 1 class…

You aren’t shining with that change, though. All you are doing is pushing necros out. Other condi builds (Warrior, Mesmer, Engineer) have better power coefficients and/or gap closers/CC that aren’t condition-based will still destroy eles.

And yes, the ele would kill the necro. Even 5 effective damage is greater than 0. I can garuntee the damage even a bunker ele puts out in 26 seconds is significantly greater than Consume Conditions heals for. Assuming a condition build, the necro can’t gain life force (since Feast of Corruption only gives life force per condition on the target with no base amount and staff 1 will never hit), so death shroud sustain is a one-time deal. It may take a bit, but a Diamond Skin bunker ele will kill any condi necro with no chance of counterplay.

For example, let’s ignore the regeneration boon entirely and just deal with Soothing Mist and Signet of Renewal. Assuming 20 points in Water Magic and no additional healing power, that is 274 health per second from auto-attacking (assuming 1 second per attack, though all water attunement autos are faster than that). This alone nearly equals the physical DPS of a condition necro (30 spite, Carrion amulet gives DPS of around 279 against 2200 armor, which a diamond skin ele has a bit higher than). Adding in any additional source of healing (or healing power) skews things even more in the ele’s favor.

TLDR: Diamond Skin turns bunker eles invincible against condition builds. Not just strong, but invincible. They don’t even have to do anything but auto-attack and move enough to keep the necro in their chosen range. Other bunker builds may have been difficult to kill, but they also required high skill on the bunker’s part. Diamond Skin ele? Just auto-attack and occasionally give yourself regen. Oh, and you’re a kittenty bunker because literally anyone else can come and stomp you with ease.

“ah ele in my way… good i have power build… lets make a rush!” eles hp under 90%, ele runns away. “$&!”&!&%&%&$#" (rage)" fast reconnect for trait/gear change to go with con dmg just to catch him… reconnect… ofc eles at 100% hp and immune to conditions … disconnect… PVE time.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

You aren’t shining with that change, though. All you are doing is pushing necros out.

And yes, the ele would kill the necro. Even 5 effective damage is greater than 0. I can garuntee the damage even a bunker ele puts out in 26 seconds is significantly greater than Consume Conditions heals for. Assuming a condition build, the necro can’t gain life force (since Feast of Corruption only gives life force per condition on the target with no base amount and staff 1 will never hit), so death shroud sustain is a one-time deal. It may take a bit, but a Diamond Skin bunker ele will kill any condi necro with no chance of counterplay.

For example, let’s ignore the regeneration boon entirely and just deal with Soothing Mist and Signet of Renewal. Assuming 20 points in Water Magic and no additional healing power, that is 274 health per second from auto-attacking (assuming 1 second per attack, though all water attunement autos are faster than that). This alone nearly equals the physical DPS of a condition necro (30 spite, Carrion amulet gives DPS of around 279 against 2200 armor, which a diamond skin ele has a bit higher than). Adding in any additional source of healing (or healing power) skews things even more in the ele’s favor.

TLDR: Diamond Skin turns bunker eles invincible against condition builds. Not just strong, but invincible. They don’t even have to do anything but auto-attack and move enough to keep the necro in their chosen range. Other bunker builds may have been difficult to kill, but they also required high skill on the bunker’s part. Diamond Skin ele? Just auto-attack and occasionally give yourself regen. Oh, and you’re a kittenty bunker because literally anyone else can come and stomp you with ease.

I said myself eles weren’t shining all that much. The mathematical problems you are doing aren’t nearly as sound as they are too. Signet is a constant, you can’t burst your heal from signet, but damage, you can. assuming a raw hps from signet is actually accurate. where as assuming a raw dps from necro is not accurate and is only useful for PvE. the whole point of diamond skin is to quickly do away with the eles threshold and then add your condis when its gone. the threshold on avg is going to be 1k-1.5k. when youre condis start ticking after you poke a hole in it, you better believe the ele is NEVER going to get back above that threshold so long as you keep the condi pressure up.

Only trouble is that the direct-damage burst a condi necro has first requires the target to have a number of conditions. Which doesn’t work because they are immune.

Alternatively, it requires them to be below 50% health, which again is irrelevant since at that point we don’t care about Diamond Skin anymore.

Engineers aren’t as big of a problem because they can’t out-heal our direct damage or they lose their immunity.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Only trouble is that the direct-damage burst a condi necro has first requires the target to have a number of conditions. Which doesn’t work because they are immune.

Alternatively, it requires them to be below 50% health, which again is irrelevant since at that point we don’t care about Diamond Skin anymore.

Engineers aren’t as big of a problem because they can’t out-heal our direct damage or they lose their immunity.

I’m willing to wager that a lot of direct damage a necro has relies on a certain amount of condis on your target is not true. I’m sure you can still play condi necro and find a way to kill d-skin eles. i said earlier it wasn’t going to be a few flip-flopping of 2 or 3 traits. give the meta 2-3 weeks first to try and find something to counter it.
Adapt, and rethink a few things about your build. thats on you.

Feast of Corruption is the closest thing condition necros have to a physical damage “burst” and yes, it does require multiple conditions on the foe to deal meaningful damage.

Chill of Death is the next most damaging possibility, but since that only triggers when the target is below 50%, it’s irrelevant.

Only other option would be Reaper’s Might Life Blast and hope that the few stacks of Might we get is enough to break through. If the ele is outside of 600 range, the life blast itself most likely isn’t.

That’s it. 3 options, one of which is irrelevant entirely, one which is hard-countered by the very trait we’re trying to use it to bypass, and one that drains our only defense at all against a condition-immune foe.

The Game Slayer.7632:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Only trouble is that the direct-damage burst a condi necro has first requires the target to have a number of conditions. Which doesn’t work because they are immune.

Alternatively, it requires them to be below 50% health, which again is irrelevant since at that point we don’t care about Diamond Skin anymore.

Engineers aren’t as big of a problem because they can’t out-heal our direct damage or they lose their immunity.

I’m willing to wager that a lot of direct damage a necro has relies on a certain amount of condis on your target is not true. I’m sure you can still play condi necro and find a way to kill d-skin eles. i said earlier it wasn’t going to be a few flip-flopping of 2 or 3 traits. give the meta 2-3 weeks first to try and find something to counter it.
Adapt, and rethink a few things about your build. thats on you.

There are only a few options:

1) add a lot of power/prec (therefore giving up condition damage)

2) use an axe, which is a subpar weapon (giving up better weapon)

3) use some minions (giving up better utilities)

All because one trait out of whack. (note: its not ‘perfectly balanced’ as the video you trumpet discusses — its the ‘broken’ aspects that the video warns)

DO NOT PANIC !… I… have the solution…

Uploading it tomorrow, alongside my POV/review on this entire mess, if anyone is interested that is.

An example of a “perfect imbalance” counter to a condi necro: Guardian running Contemplation of Purity.

He takes what we were doing to him and turns it to his favor. However, any damage the necro dealt is still there and he can respond to it as well (frequently with a Corrupt Boon, to which the Guardian either anticipates with a dodge or re-stacks his boons knowing the corruption is now on cooldown). Even in the corruption situation, the Guardian is likely in a better spot than before thanks to stack reductions from the conversions.

Another example would be Berserker Stance Warriors. They become very difficult to touch as a condition build, but the necro can still kite and wait out the duration of the stance, letting any currently applied conditions do their thing.

Diamond Skin breaks this. There is no condition-counterplay because the conditions never get applied in the first place.

Even in a rabid setup, Life Blast will deal 1k damage within 600 units. At most, you’d have to hit the Ele twice to get through Diamond Skin. If you use a Flesh Golem then all you need is one Charge > DS2 > DS1, Diamond Skin should be gone by that point, they should be sitting with at least a bleed or a chill on them as well and you’re set up for a Terror nuke up close with Doom.

There’s so many ways around this by just making minor changes to the same old easy mode face-roll condi build. Just L2P and stop relying on broken builds already. kitten .

Good in theory, but I doubt it would work in practice. You wouldn’t be able to hit them twice with Life Blast. Once, perhaps, but they would get up and dodge before the second goes off.

Or they dodge the Dark Path, making your whole combo meaningless. It’s not like they have anything else to dodge.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Good in theory, but I doubt it would work in practice. You wouldn’t be able to hit them twice with Life Blast. Once, perhaps, but they would get up and dodge before the second goes off.

Or they dodge the Dark Path, making your whole combo meaningless. It’s not like they have anything else to dodge.

The first LB is practically a freebie if done correctly. Sorry, but if they’re dodging your important skills then you used them wrong.

You only need to register about 1.5K damage to take off 10% of an Ele’s HP. In full bunkertard (not doing any damage) they max out at around 20K HP. D/D Ele is more likely to have Zerker or Valk setup and will have between 12k and 15k HP.

There’s not a ton of work to be done there. You just have to change how you open the engagement. Or you could just have a teammate hit the Ele once and let you take over from there…

seriously, you guys would realize this is not the most challenging of obstacles if you just start looking for answers instead of claiming the sky is falling…

Maybe a start would be something like reversing the effect of feast of corruption.

Instead of dealing more damage when there are more conditions, deal more damage when there are no conditions. This should allow necro’s to burst down these immunities just enough so the elementalist needs to heal/dodge the attack. This would require the elementalist to at least put in some more skill in their play rather than to give them a free pass against condition necromancers. A softer counter for the hard counter. It would at least give necro’s something more to compliment their LB. Damage should of course stay low enough for it not to overthrow condition damage: just enough to get rid of that immunity.
Elementalists can all too easily replentish their hp (even more so with the new blast in water fields), at least this would give them a bit more of a challenge.

As an added bonus, it would be a first helpful start for necro’s to damage structures in the open world.

Sorry you can’t just slap every condition in the game on us in a matter of seconds and watch us slowly die as u spam fear?

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

An example of a “perfect imbalance” counter to a condi necro: Guardian running Contemplation of Purity.

He takes what we were doing to him and turns it to his favor. However, any damage the necro dealt is still there and he can respond to it as well (frequently with a Corrupt Boon, to which the Guardian either anticipates with a dodge or re-stacks his boons knowing the corruption is now on cooldown). Even in the corruption situation, the Guardian is likely in a better spot than before thanks to stack reductions from the conversions.

Another example would be Berserker Stance Warriors. They become very difficult to touch as a condition build, but the necro can still kite and wait out the duration of the stance, letting any currently applied conditions do their thing.

Diamond Skin breaks this. There is no condition-counterplay because the conditions never get applied in the first place.

What is the difference between kiting out the war for 8 seconds or doing physical damage for < 8 seconds. both are completely realistic counters.

The other part about perfect imbalance is that you can’t say something is broken and be credited 24 hours after the patch went live. You haven’t even TRIED to counter it. You may have tried with in your build, but eles anticipated that while taking d-skin. you’re going to need to think outside the box. And if you refuse to adapt thats youre fault. youll be part of the forum whiners. There are real players out there who will try to adapt and then if its apparent in real gameplay that those players tried to counter it and are still not beating the d-skin eles with a 90-100% loss ratio THEN and ONLY THEN can you declare this broken.

hackks.3687:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Good in theory, but I doubt it would work in practice. You wouldn’t be able to hit them twice with Life Blast. Once, perhaps, but they would get up and dodge before the second goes off.

Or they dodge the Dark Path, making your whole combo meaningless. It’s not like they have anything else to dodge.

The first LB is practically a freebie if done correctly. Sorry, but if they’re dodging your important skills then you used them wrong.

You only need to register about 1.5K damage to take off 10% of an Ele’s HP. In full bunkertard (not doing any damage) they max out at around 20K HP. D/D Ele is more likely to have Zerker or Valk setup and will have between 12k and 15k HP.

There’s not a ton of work to be done there. You just have to change how you open the engagement. Or you could just have a teammate hit the Ele once and let you take over from there…

seriously, you guys would realize this is not the most challenging of obstacles if you just start looking for answers instead of claiming the sky is falling…

If our important skills are being dodged, we’re doing it wrong…

Our important skills are the only ones worth dodging in the first place. Other than the Dark Path or Charge, the Ele has literally nothing to fear from our skills, so saving their dodges for those is obvious. When there is no reason to dodge anything else, of course our important skills will be avoided.

As for kiting a warrior versus attacking the ele, the difference is pretty obvious. The warrior only has a set time where we can make no meaningful progress. The ele does not.

hackks.3687:

Even in a rabid setup, Life Blast will deal 1k damage within 600 units. At most, you’d have to hit the Ele twice to get through Diamond Skin. If you use a Flesh Golem then all you need is one Charge > DS2 > DS1, Diamond Skin should be gone by that point, they should be sitting with at least a bleed or a chill on them as well and you’re set up for a Terror nuke up close with Doom.

There’s so many ways around this by just making minor changes to the same old easy mode face-roll condi build. Just L2P and stop relying on broken builds already. kitten .

I admire your ability to imply with certainty that ele players, with their speed, mobility, healing, regen, CC, condis and condi cleansing (if they do drop below the threshold), don’t actually possess the skill to stop a necro’s expected attacks in the first 5 seconds of a fight.

Personally, my issue isn’t charging DS as invincible, it’s totally sleazy and unskilled. Conditions largely define combat, especially in the first moments which can decide victory or death. This trait and anything like it simply should not exist.

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Ele’s running away shouldn’t be any more of an issue than it was, since people only tend to run on low health which means the trait wouldn’t help them anyway. All you have to do is have a way of dealing 10% damage to an ele, then you can use your snares/conditions as normal.

My point is that there is a way to deal with people using this trait. If people insist on using the condi only build, then that’s their choice. Having a counter to the tactic and not using it is just a little silly imo.

Not to mention, the patch has been out less than a day. The meta needs time to adjust. Give it time.

Your totally missing the point.
As a non-condi, power build. Our weapon range is very short. We need Chill/Cripple/Imob to be able to ‘catch’/do any damage. Even a Dagger ele, (It’s shortest range) can kite us all day without taking a single hit. As we can no longer use any of our slow down effects on them.

OrianZeta.1537:

hackks.3687:

Even in a rabid setup, Life Blast will deal 1k damage within 600 units. At most, you’d have to hit the Ele twice to get through Diamond Skin. If you use a Flesh Golem then all you need is one Charge > DS2 > DS1, Diamond Skin should be gone by that point, they should be sitting with at least a bleed or a chill on them as well and you’re set up for a Terror nuke up close with Doom.

There’s so many ways around this by just making minor changes to the same old easy mode face-roll condi build. Just L2P and stop relying on broken builds already. kitten .

I admire your ability to imply with certainty that ele players, with their speed, mobility, healing, regen, CC, condis and condi cleansing (if they do drop below the threshold), don’t actually possess the skill to stop a necro’s expected attacks in the first 5 seconds of a fight.

Personally, my issue isn’t charging DS as invincible, it’s totally sleazy and unskilled. Conditions largely define combat, especially in the first moments which can decide victory or death. This trait and anything like it simply should not exist.

In rabbid setup Life Blast hits 600+, 400+ if target has protection on… i have tested… so you must land 4 hits, if he doesn’t heal… CC, run… or tickles your DS… and IF you have DS in the first place, otherwise you are stuck at 200 hits of scepter, or 300 hits of staff… which can be dodged by WALKING to the left/right…

you can still easily Condi burst an Ele. Just take axe/focus and scepter/x. use ghastly claws and spinal shivers or something like that and then burst. its really not that hard to figure out. or even better yet, do what Sonof Krypton suggested. Conditions still hurt an Ele if it deals direct damage and if they have diamond skin.
Or you could just pop into Lich Form, use Grim Specter, Chilling wind(knock back) and then mark of horror

The Game Slayer.7632:

What is the difference between kiting out the war for 8 seconds or doing physical damage for < 8 seconds. both are completely realistic counters.

If a conditionmancer could get an Diamond skin elementalist below 90% within 8 seconds by merely physical/power damage, this thread wouldn’t exist.

CMstorm.8679:

you can still easily Condi burst an Ele. Just take axe/focus and scepter/x. use ghastly claws and spinal shivers or something like that and then burst. its really not that hard to figure out. or even better yet, do what Sonof Krypton suggested. Conditions still hurt an Ele if it deals direct damage and if they have diamond skin.
Or you could just pop into Lich Form, use Grim Specter, Chilling wind(knock back) and then mark of horror

You can also use a two handed axe that deals condition damage in your power build… how does that sound ? Come on it’s not that hard…

I never played with a “two handed axe” before in my life… but i like to give advice to people… so… go on… do it…

Nemesis.8593:

CMstorm.8679:

you can still easily Condi burst an Ele. Just take axe/focus and scepter/x. use ghastly claws and spinal shivers or something like that and then burst. its really not that hard to figure out. or even better yet, do what Sonof Krypton suggested. Conditions still hurt an Ele if it deals direct damage and if they have diamond skin.
Or you could just pop into Lich Form, use Grim Specter, Chilling wind(knock back) and then mark of horror

You can also use a two handed axe that deals condition damage in your power build… how does that sound ? Come on it’s not that hard…

I never played with a “two handed axe” before in my life… but i like to give advice to people… so… go on… do it…

I never said anything about a two-handed axe… :P

CMstorm.8679:

you can still easily Condi burst an Ele. Just take axe/focus and scepter/x. use ghastly claws and spinal shivers or something like that and then burst. its really not that hard to figure out. or even better yet, do what Sonof Krypton suggested. Conditions still hurt an Ele if it deals direct damage and if they have diamond skin.
Or you could just pop into Lich Form, use Grim Specter, Chilling wind(knock back) and then mark of horror

The Axe/Focus & Scep/Dagger is my current roaming setup since this patch. It works vs Diamond Skin, but is pretty suboptimal for other encounters. Still shouldn’t require you to take an Axe to not get flawlessed by a build.

Perfect imbalance? You mean like MTG and Guild Wars 1? They throw a LOT of skills/cards to adapt to any deck/build. Tell me how i do that in GW2? Where’s all the skills that can allow me to adapt? I just think some peoples watch videos that they don’t understand.

Vortok.6975:

Perfect imbalance? You mean like MTG and Guild Wars 1? They throw a LOT of skills/cards to adapt to any deck/build. Tell me how i do that in GW2? Where’s all the skills that can allow me to adapt? I just think some peoples watch videos that they don’t understand.

A decent point with MtG. If you are having issues with something specific, you can adapt your deck pretty easily to account for it. This may require using another color (such as enchantment troubles when running red/black), or it may just involve some different cards (such as problematic creatures when running blue). The nature of the game means you can combine elements from anywhere to get a desired effect. Guild Wars 2 can’t quite accomplish that. The variety isn’t there.

As an aside, who else knew that Red has the second highest amount of counterspells in Magic?

The Game Slayer.7632:

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

I did some searching on how we could get Damage over that Elementalist treshold of 2 k hp , (water attuned) with a 450hp (there i fixed it, take your word for it) regen on heal with our weapon sets.

Without DS #1 traited Soulreaping A VI Unyielding Blast,
it is simply not possible.. unless you want the ele to heal to full after you did all your weapon rotations.

Or blow your utilities at the start hoping the ele is a scrub and doesn’t know how to heal.

So bring axe/focus on a power build to strip the regen off and get DS up that is all you can do.
follow up with your weapon skills to stack conditions.. wait for the cleanse/heal then start all over again and hope someone comes along to help.

the trick to counter this Diamond skin is getting your DS up as fast and much as possible..

How Anet thinks we are “the” attrition profession and then hit all other classes with artrition like healing i do not know

whoa now, i like your ambition but you are spewing out some ridiculously made up numbers.

What you just said is the equivalent of me saying “warriors can do 20k damage in one attack, have 2,000 regen a second, area CC with hammer, stability for 30 seconds, all in the same build.”

Do you see how f-ing ridiculous that sounds? Its slightly comparable to warriors, but in no way at all is it remotely true.

An ele with 750hp regen a second is not possible. literally not possible. I mean, literally.
A- if an ele is literally sitting in water attunement as you say he is, hes not killing you. LOL
B- the highest amount of regen an ele can get is 450. (regen boon and soothing mist). And the regen is on extremely low durations.
C- And then IF the ele had a regen of 450, his threshold would be extremely low, near 1,200, not 2,000 due to the healing power stat being there and not vitality stat.
D- if an ele could run 0-0-30-30-30, he would. news flash though, he can’t. theres no such thing as an ele healing to full with water if hes running d-skin. max heals with d-skin=1500 every 15+ seconds if traited(which also means he isnt running any offensive traits).

TL;DR- don’t spew out bs’d numbers.

PS- this is an ele trait, move this to ele forums. why on earth this is in necro forums?

Funny, i took all those numbers form the elementalist forums talking about this topic..

I am not suggesting an elementalist can heal to full even though i leveled an ele yesterday and with 2 waterfields/ 3 blasts i can heal over 2/3 hp.

nontheless if the numbers are bs, check your forums popular builds as i got most information from there….but ill change it.
still wouldn’t matter much though..

Oh and this is on the necro forum because we are discussing it.
cheerio.