Guild Wars 2

I just wish to point out that if Necros had the full package of abilities – mobility, evasion, damage, conditions, boons etc… – we’d not be having this discussion.

Just make a list of haves and have-nots for each professions, the Necro session will be plenty surprising for people not used to our skill set.

Everyone that is saying Diamond Skin is fine, must not understand how balancing a game works.

Rock, Paper, Scissors is not a balanced PvP format, where the game is suppose to promote skill to be the best.

One trait completely stops the most common necromancer build in the game. Saying “oh just bring axe or some other weapon set up” isn’t the right answer. Forcing the necromancer to bring sub-par weapon set ups just because there’s a chance that they might run into Diamond Skin and not be able to do anything about, is not the answer.

It’s not as decisive as rock paper scissors though. They’re not 100% immune to conditions at all times no matter what. You simply have to knock them down past 90% before you can use conditions. There’s a lot of ways to do that.

I mean, what did you guys do when a Warrior popped Zerker Stance? Or an Engi used Auto-Response? Did you just avoid the fights or did you find someway to work around it?

I’m not a fan of any of those skills or their design, but Diamond Skin is the least offensive of the three IMO.

Balefire.7592:

But that should be the trade off of going full Condi. If you’re afraid of Diamond Skin, you would spec for a little bit more power. However, right now, doing so is completely pointless as it just puts you in a worse spot, not a better one.

It’s rock, paper, scissors, which isn’t my idea of a fair or balanced tradeoff.

hackks.3687:

It’s not as decisive as rock paper scissors though. They’re not 100% immune to conditions at all times no matter what. You simply have to knock them down past 90% before you can use conditions. There’s a lot of ways to do that.

I mean, what did you guys do when a Warrior popped Zerker Stance? Or an Engi used Auto-Response? Did you just avoid the fights or did you find someway to work around it?

I’m not a fan of any of those skills or their design, but Diamond Skin is the least offensive of the three IMO.

Warrior stances are horrible, that should be 0% damage as well. Also, those skills have counter play.

Warrior Zerker Stance? Just wait for it to end.

Engineer is immune at 25% health? Save your burst for around 30% because, every condition they have on them at 25% health still dose damage.

See how “skill” (or lack of doing anything) is the counter play here? Not making people change their set up that they have been playing since the game was released.

Auto-immune Response Engineers below 25% and just cleansed all of our conditions? Just keep fighting them. Unlike an ele, they can’t out-heal our physical damage. If they do, they lose their immunity to our far more dangerous conditions. They can’t negate us at that point, they have to endure us. It becomes more difficult for the necro, but it still is possible.

If an AR Engineer is immune to our conditions and somebody else shows up, the engineer is boned. If a DS Ele is immune to our conditions and somebody else shows up, the ele is exactly where they want to be (health-wise, at least).

alanis.6094:

The Game Slayer.7632:

What is the difference between kiting out the war for 8 seconds or doing physical damage for < 8 seconds. both are completely realistic counters.

If a conditionmancer could get an Diamond skin elementalist below 90% within 8 seconds by merely physical/power damage, this thread wouldn’t exist.

Except, you’ve literally done nothing to change your build and you think you can still steam-roll everything that walks your way. Too bad. I don’t feel sorry. This thread is ludicrous.

Summary of every complaining necro in this thread- “Wahhh! Wahhh! I can’t faceroll everyone anymore! I’m going to ignore everything anyone tells me, because I like my old build! I hate change! They’re all WRONG!”

Peace.

The Game Slayer.7632:

Except, you’ve literally done nothing to change your build and you think you can still steam-roll everything that walks your way. Too bad. I don’t feel sorry. This thread is ludicrous.

Summary of every complaining necro in this thread- “Wahhh! Wahhh! I can’t faceroll everyone anymore! I’m going to ignore everything anyone tells me, because I like my old build! I hate change! They’re all WRONG!”

Peace.

Clear example of someone not understanding balance.

The Game Slayer.7632:

alanis.6094:

The Game Slayer.7632:

What is the difference between kiting out the war for 8 seconds or doing physical damage for < 8 seconds. both are completely realistic counters.

If a conditionmancer could get an Diamond skin elementalist below 90% within 8 seconds by merely physical/power damage, this thread wouldn’t exist.

Except, you’ve literally done nothing to change your build and you think you can still steam-roll everything that walks your way. Too bad. I don’t feel sorry. This thread is ludicrous.

If we don’t change our build, it should still be possible. Difficult, yes, but possible. A character with no condition removal whatsoever can beat a condition damage necro. It will be very difficult, but it is possible. However, it’s mathematically impossible for a condi necro to beat a DS ele. Do you not see how this is a problem? This trait singlehandedly removes skill as a factor in a necro vs. ele fight.

Even if we do change our build, it would screw us over against everyone else to deal with literally one single build. A weapon change is not “small”. That is 1/3 of our skills. Unfortunately, that is the only way to manage it. You aren’t suggesting an edit to a build, you are saying we should use a terrible build because it’s the only way we can break past a horridly binary trait that reeks of terrible design.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

The Game Slayer.7632:

alanis.6094:

The Game Slayer.7632:

What is the difference between kiting out the war for 8 seconds or doing physical damage for < 8 seconds. both are completely realistic counters.

If a conditionmancer could get an Diamond skin elementalist below 90% within 8 seconds by merely physical/power damage, this thread wouldn’t exist.

Except, you’ve literally done nothing to change your build and you think you can still steam-roll everything that walks your way. Too bad. I don’t feel sorry. This thread is ludicrous.

If we don’t change our build, it should still be possible. Difficult, yes, but possible. A character with no condition removal whatsoever can beat a condition damage necro. It will be very difficult, but it is possible. However, it’s mathematically impossible for a condi necro to beat a DS ele. Do you not see how this is a problem? This GRANDMASTER trait IN AN EXTREMELY UNDERUSED TRAITLINE singlehandedly removes skill as a factor in a (SPECIFIC CONDI)necro vs. ele fight.

Even if we do change our build, it would screw us over against everyone else to deal with literally one single build. A weapon change is not “small”. That is 1/3 of our skills. Unfortunately, that is the only way to manage it. You aren’t suggesting an edit to a build, you are saying we should use a terrible build because it’s the only way we can break past a horridly binary trait that reeks of terrible design.

i fixed that for you. I’m not suggesting an edit to the build because thats on you.

Are you asking for a build that facerolls everything you run into with no counters? That’s what it seems. As i’ve said, ludicrous thread.

run cheese necro spamming, and you have a small chance to run into a d-skin ele who will not even kill you because hes bunker. lol…

Tricare.2946:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Except, you’ve literally done nothing to change your build and you think you can still steam-roll everything that walks your way. Too bad. I don’t feel sorry. This thread is ludicrous.

Summary of every complaining necro in this thread- “Wahhh! Wahhh! I can’t faceroll everyone anymore! I’m going to ignore everything anyone tells me, because I like my old build! I hate change! They’re all WRONG!”

Peace.

Clear example of someone not understanding balance.

Lol you don’t know a thing about this game then.

This video will explain to you what you’ve been missing.

The Game Slayer.7632:

Tricare.2946:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Except, you’ve literally done nothing to change your build and you think you can still steam-roll everything that walks your way. Too bad. I don’t feel sorry. This thread is ludicrous.

Summary of every complaining necro in this thread- “Wahhh! Wahhh! I can’t faceroll everyone anymore! I’m going to ignore everything anyone tells me, because I like my old build! I hate change! They’re all WRONG!”

Peace.

Clear example of someone not understanding balance.

Lol you don’t know a thing about this game then.

This video will explain to you what you’ve been missing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w

Did you even get 45 seconds into your own video?

One trait should not render an entire professions build useless.

Good players don’t get face rolled by a necro. People trying to defend this because they believe necro face rolls every class is just ignorant and probably doesn’t understand necro enough to counter them properly.

People are still missing the fact that this trait could still be effective against condition builds without giving every bad player the ability to beat a condition class without any kind of skillful play if it just functioned differently. Builds aren’t supposed to hard counter other builds, this isn’t rock-paper-scissors. Please don’t confuse qqing with reasonable argument.

Tricare.2946:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Tricare.2946:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Except, you’ve literally done nothing to change your build and you think you can still steam-roll everything that walks your way. Too bad. I don’t feel sorry. This thread is ludicrous.

Summary of every complaining necro in this thread- “Wahhh! Wahhh! I can’t faceroll everyone anymore! I’m going to ignore everything anyone tells me, because I like my old build! I hate change! They’re all WRONG!”

Peace.

Clear example of someone not understanding balance.

Lol you don’t know a thing about this game then.

This video will explain to you what you’ve been missing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w

Did you even get 45 seconds into your own video?

One trait should not render an entire professions build useless.

who are you to say that? im pretty sure the devs knew this, and they put it in the game knowing so. so the dev’s disagree with you. lol.

I know you must be just a troll and bask in the glory of this new Diamond skin (can’t stop thinking about a certain Rihanna’s song right now, and I don’t even like her that much. Diamond Skin what you make me do!!!).

Nobody here is asking to continue to faceroll, warriors are faceroll. Condi of every sort (Terror even better, being a stun and a condi) had a way to be countered.

We can argue all night long that Necros just dont have the damage output, in a condi build with condi weapons, to deal with and SURVIVE an ele in 1v1 right now. You can claim you can, but your view sounds really biased with a bit of tainted revenge in it, I only read : “Gotcha, suckers!”

The real point here is: This trait is not fun. I dont even think it will be that popular, no it’s not really an issue, but I think we must voice our opinions about traits that have a negative impact on the game, regardless of class.

Again, if necro had a Grandmaster trait that says: Immune to Direct Damage above 90%, (hell, make me have to take 2 grandmasters trait for this effect I would take them.) wouldn’t you think the sky would fall for all those zerk power lovers? Telling them go condi/hybrid or go home?

I play all classes, necro is not my main anymore, but I can still admit that this trait could have been something else, something to help ele, but not completely render them immune with no real skill involved (and yeah, Dhuumfire was also one of those skilless trait).

Panhauramix.2784:

I know you must be just a troll and bask in the glory of this new Diamond skin (can’t stop thinking about a certain Rihanna’s song right now, and I don’t even like her that much. Diamond Skin what you make me do!!!).

Nobody here is asking to continue to faceroll, warriors are faceroll. Condi of every sort (Terror even better, being a stun and a condi) had a way to be countered.

We can argue all night long that Necros just dont have the damage output, in a condi build with condi weapons, to deal with and SURVIVE an ele in 1v1 right now. You can claim you can, but your view sounds really biased with a bit of tainted revenge in it, I only read : “Gotcha, suckers!”

The real point here is: This trait is not fun. I dont even think it will be that popular, no it’s not really an issue, but I think we must voice our opinions about traits that have a negative impact on the game, regardless of class.

Again, if necro had a Grandmaster trait that says: Immune to Direct Damage above 90%, (hell, make me have to take 2 grandmasters trait for this effect I would take them.) wouldn’t you think the sky would fall for all those zerk power lovers? Telling them go condi/hybrid or go home?

I play all classes, necro is not my main anymore, but I can still admit that this trait could have been something else, something to help ele, but not completely render them immune with no real skill involved (and yeah, Dhuumfire was also one of those skilless trait).

well, nice try on that analogy, but youre wayyyyy off. direct damage is literally on every single(99%) weapon skill. condition damage barely makes 30% of any given weapon skill. No matter what you do, you do physical damage. you just do.
physical damage and condi damage are apples and oranges. stop trying to compare.

what gets me laughing more is when necros got dhuumfire patch, i actually ranted a bit and necros just told me to run more cleanses or run -cond duration gear. I hated the sound of it, and argued it with them, but i tried it out anyway. and it worked fairly decent against any necro i ran into since then.

The Game Slayer.7632:

who are you to say that? im pretty sure the devs knew this, and they put it in the game knowing so. so the dev’s disagree with you. lol.

It’s a sign of horrible balance in a game when one trait can cancel out a whole professions build. This game isn’t suppose to be Rock, Paper, Scissors.

Tricare.2946:

The Game Slayer.7632:

who are you to say that? im pretty sure the devs knew this, and they put it in the game knowing so. so the dev’s disagree with you. lol.

It’s a sign of horrible balance in a game when one trait can cancel out a whole professions build. This game isn’t suppose to be Rock, Paper, Scissors.

He doesn’t care. He’s one of the eles that wanted it.

Tricare.2946:

The Game Slayer.7632:

who are you to say that? im pretty sure the devs knew this, and they put it in the game knowing so. so the dev’s disagree with you. lol.

It’s a sign of horrible balance in a game when one trait can cancel out a whole professions build. This game isn’t suppose to be Rock, Paper, Scissors.

You can say whatever you want, but the dev’s certainly disagree. I agree that this is indeed sort of a rock-paper-scissors set-up, but fortunately its not throwing out entire professions. Run a direct dmg necro to kill d-skin eles, anything else an ele runs, run condi necro. The condi spamming necro will almost always win against a non d-skin ele. ( remember, either way, the ele isnt killing you. ) its a win-win for you. unless you call not killing something a lose. then we can argue about thieves, etc.

The Game Slayer.7632:

Tricare.2946:

The Game Slayer.7632:

who are you to say that? im pretty sure the devs knew this, and they put it in the game knowing so. so the dev’s disagree with you. lol.

It’s a sign of horrible balance in a game when one trait can cancel out a whole professions build. This game isn’t suppose to be Rock, Paper, Scissors.

You can say whatever you want, but the dev’s certainly disagree. I agree that this is indeed sort of a rock-paper-scissors set-up, but fortunately its not throwing out entire professions. Run a direct dmg necro to kill d-skin eles, anything else an ele runs, run condi necro. The condi spamming necro will almost always win against a non d-skin ele. ( remember, either way, the ele isnt killing you. ) its a win-win for you. unless you call not killing something a lose. then we can argue about thieves, etc.

We already told you that Diamond skin screws over power necromancers too as we required conditions to get to you due to our terribly (intentionally designed) mobility…

The Game Slayer.7632:

You can say whatever you want, but the dev’s certainly disagree.

Not sure why you are using this as a defense of a ‘broken’ trait. The dev’s have never been wrong before? They’ve never made huge mistakes?

The Game Slayer.7632:

alanis.6094:

The Game Slayer.7632:

What is the difference between kiting out the war for 8 seconds or doing physical damage for < 8 seconds. both are completely realistic counters.

If a conditionmancer could get an Diamond skin elementalist below 90% within 8 seconds by merely physical/power damage, this thread wouldn’t exist.

Except, you’ve literally done nothing to change your build and you think you can still steam-roll everything that walks your way. Too bad. I don’t feel sorry. This thread is ludicrous.

Summary of every complaining necro in this thread- “Wahhh! Wahhh! I can’t faceroll everyone anymore! I’m going to ignore everything anyone tells me, because I like my old build! I hate change! They’re all WRONG!”

Peace.

Except, if you would have actually watched the vid, you’d have seen that OP made the following incremental changes to the the build after every defeat:
1/ Switch Plague Form for Flesh Golem
2/ Switch Rabid amulet for Carrion
3/ Switched back to Rabid, switched utility to Flesh Wurm, changed traits for more minion damage; which kind of worked (as long as the ele kindly ignored attacking the minions).

So now, 4 pages into the thread, you actually now what was in the very first post: congratulations. Now, what other ‘changes to the build’ do you propose? Maybe we could switch some trait points around to more power oriented lines? O wait, 30/20/0/0/20 is already 30 points in the power line and 20 in both precision and crit damage lines. Hmm, yeah…

I guess we can at least conclude that the point is that this trait hard counters ‘the build’ and all it’s variations, no?

Tricare.2946:

The Game Slayer.7632:

You can say whatever you want, but the dev’s certainly disagree.

Not sure why you are using this as a defense of a ‘broken’ trait. The dev’s have never been wrong before? They’ve never made huge mistakes?

I agree with you, Anet made serious balance mistakes their views of the elementalist just dont match the picture. The way gameslayer is trying to justify this is a joke and incredibly childish, why do you want this..? Quite frank i’ve been sick and tired of seeing everyone lame and play pretty much cheese non stop but seriously adding milk to the cheese will make you go through the roof? Ignorance. Just a very bad “loser” the taste of winning will soon backlash and we will be back to square one.

Draehl.2681:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Tricare.2946:

The Game Slayer.7632:

who are you to say that? im pretty sure the devs knew this, and they put it in the game knowing so. so the dev’s disagree with you. lol.

It’s a sign of horrible balance in a game when one trait can cancel out a whole professions build. This game isn’t suppose to be Rock, Paper, Scissors.

You can say whatever you want, but the dev’s certainly disagree. I agree that this is indeed sort of a rock-paper-scissors set-up, but fortunately its not throwing out entire professions. Run a direct dmg necro to kill d-skin eles, anything else an ele runs, run condi necro. The condi spamming necro will almost always win against a non d-skin ele. ( remember, either way, the ele isnt killing you. ) its a win-win for you. unless you call not killing something a lose. then we can argue about thieves, etc.

We already told you that Diamond skin screws over power necromancers too as we required conditions to get to you due to our terribly (intentionally designed) mobility…

though to be fair, power necro can break the 10% threshold easily

Diamond Skin should be a buff that lasts 5 seconds upon the first condition hitting a Ele over 90% health.

That’s still going to save them thousands of health if hit with a burst condi opener, like terror or burning. Potentially much more if hit with a team or zerg focused attack.

Then a fairly long cooldown, 30 to 60 seconds.

Ele had plenty of damage avoidance even before this with RTL, mist form, armor of earth, etc.

Andy.9137:

Draehl.2681:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Tricare.2946:

The Game Slayer.7632:

who are you to say that? im pretty sure the devs knew this, and they put it in the game knowing so. so the dev’s disagree with you. lol.

It’s a sign of horrible balance in a game when one trait can cancel out a whole professions build. This game isn’t suppose to be Rock, Paper, Scissors.

You can say whatever you want, but the dev’s certainly disagree. I agree that this is indeed sort of a rock-paper-scissors set-up, but fortunately its not throwing out entire professions. Run a direct dmg necro to kill d-skin eles, anything else an ele runs, run condi necro. The condi spamming necro will almost always win against a non d-skin ele. ( remember, either way, the ele isnt killing you. ) its a win-win for you. unless you call not killing something a lose. then we can argue about thieves, etc.

We already told you that Diamond skin screws over power necromancers too as we required conditions to get to you due to our terribly (intentionally designed) mobility…

though to be fair, power necro can break the 10% threshold easily

read his post to the end… we cant just catch eles on power build due to our max 600 range with axe, the dagger is even more useless. we are to slow for catching any of the classes.
by diamond skin we are forced to ditch condition builds and replace them with hybrid/power build which is just stupid and wrong.
necro is and was allways about conditions, due to kittennes of minion mechanics.

This is beyond ridiculous…

SonOfKrypton.4357:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

SonOfKrypton.4357:

Hmmm, not too sure, I think you may have missed Perma-Fear terror spam,

I hadn’t head of this build before. Considering our shortest possible cooldown Fear is 17 seconds (traited) and lasts for at maximum 3 seconds (all other fears being at least 32 second cooldowns traited and half the duration), I haven’t quite worked out the math for a perma-fear build. Care to enlighten us, or are you ready to admit you’re full of kitten?

I sure do care to enlighten you, my sweet little sugar possum! n_n

1. There is this thing called Death Shroud. It has an ability called “Doom.”
2. There is this thing called Staff. It has an ability called “Reaper’s Mark.”
3. There is this thing called “Spectral Wall.” It fears you whenever you run into it.
4. There is this thing called “Terror.” Whenever an enemy is feared, they take damage.
5. There is this thing called “Fear of Death.” Whenever you get downed you fear an enemy.
6. There is this thing called “Master of Terror.” It increases all of your fear durations.
7. There is this thing called “Superior Rune of the Necromancer.” If you have six of them, it increases all of your fear durations.

You might not have known this but it is actually possible to chain these fear abilities, with the exception of “Fear of Death.”

So, my tender little petal blossom, what you’re gonna wanna do is:

Have all the necessary traits on. Then you’re gonna use Doom. Quickly hit Tainted Shackles. Hop out of Death Shroud. Reaper’s Mark. Then you drop a Spectral Wall. Ironically enough if you have feared them into a wall and drop Spectral Wall strategically, they will be stuck there if they have no stun breaks or stability.

So, my darling little river lily, that my love, is how you do the “math” for perma-fear! n_n

Glad I could teach you how to play your own class.

That’s sounds like a really terrible way to play a Necro. Maybe it’s fun being able to only kill new players, though, and dedicating 40 trait points and your runes to something countered by Stability.

I’m glad you taught everyone absolutely nothing, other than the fact that your attitude wouldn’t be out of place in a 3rd grade classroom.

As for Diamond Skin, my A/D+S idea is starting to look even more attractive. That being said, I didn’t notice this as part of their patch changes back when they presented them to everyone, but I also didn’t really look at Eles. It seems like a really terrible design idea that for some reason wasn’t lambasted. Or maybe it was. I just didn’t see it.

Just thinking out loud, and quite possibly dreaming..

What if necros had a trait – “Immune to direct damage when health is below 10%.” .. imagine the possibilities..

Nevermind, that makes me sad. Anywho, I dont know how Diamond Skin got through balancing. Just imagine the reaction if there was a trait like that that worked against direct damage.

Nickczh.6341:

Just thinking out loud, and quite possibly dreaming..

What if necros had a trait – “Immune to direct damage when health is below 10%.” .. imagine the possibilities..

Nevermind, that makes me sad. Anywho, I dont know how Diamond Skin got through balancing. Just imagine the reaction if there was a trait like that that worked against direct damage.

It would be given to one of the classes that they love. Would NEVER see it anywhere near a Necromancer. NEVER.

Nickczh.6341:

“Immune to direct damage when health is below 10%.” .. imagine the possibilities..

Or they could simply give necromancers a second health pool and make it a class ability rather than a trait.

But silliness aside, I think everyone in the Elementalist forum would just love seeing changes that balanced the class, rather than one trait that is effective against 1/20th of the builds used in the game (all professions). Really. Dimond skin, while sounding interesting, will do nothing in making Elementalist competitive.

You won’t suddenly see elementalist go from zero players in tournament, to dominating. elementalist is the most underrepresented class, and will continue to be so until the class is actually balanced. This whole thread is about one of the most common picked classes, complaining about the least picked one. While it doesn’t excuse bad game design, it is a bit silly.

You need to understand the mentality of the people that you argue against. Game Slayer is an elementalist that fights outside of his towers so he can run in the door when he gets low or gets downed.

This is not the type of person that is looking for balanced 1v1s. This is the type of person who wants to “win” ( or to be more accurate, not lose) no matter how that is achieved.

There isn’t really any point in arguing with someone who wants to fight without the risk of “losing.” Even if that loss is averted by misting through a tower door.

Belorn.2659:

Nickczh.6341:

“Immune to direct damage when health is below 10%.” .. imagine the possibilities..

Or they could simply give necromancers a second health pool and make it a class ability rather than a trait.

Really wish people would stop parroting that, maybe then we could actually get some survivability.

Necros have the WORST survivability and mobility in the game, even WITH deathshroud. That’s because for DS our class has no access to: blinks, evades, blocks, invulnerability, stealth, consistent HP recovery and sustainable stability. Any other class in the game makes use of some or most of these and never give a second thought about how not having any is game-breaking for GW2 combat.

Know why Necros in pvp spec for burst, nothing but burst and even more burst? Because any prolonged engagement is a default loss for us, the exact opposite of what our “class philosophy” is supposed to deal with combat.

Just when i thought they could not kitten up balance even further… they managed to do just that. I dont even….

Ghostcrawler where are thou!

I’m not convinced that the developers have a poor grasp on balance. I actually think they just have a soft spot for trolls and trolling. Stealth mechanics, perplexity, mobility warriors, misting through doors, etc etc.

GW2 is the most troll-friendly game I can think of. Diamond skin is a mechanic designed to troll a specific class and build.

Oozo.7856:

I’m not convinced that the developers have a poor grasp on balance. I actually think they just have a soft spot for trolls and trolling. Stealth mechanics, perplexity, mobility warriors, misting through doors, etc etc.

GW2 is the most troll-friendly game I can think of. Diamond skin is a mechanic designed to troll a specific class and build.

Haha, you just gave me an amazing image. After watching that dev livestream, I can just see Karl sitting there running Diamond Skin and laughing at the pathetic rabid necro trying to land any damage on him. Hurrr durrrr hurrrr durrrr

Ask the devs to give you immunity to direct damage at over 90% hp. If that will stop cries I’m totally fine with it.

PS. I have a necro too.

Kiriakulos.1690:

Necros have the WORST survivability and mobility in the game, even WITH deathshroud. That’s because for DS our class has no access to: blinks, evades, blocks, invulnerability, stealth, consistent HP recovery and sustainable stability. Any other class in the game makes use of some are most of these and never give a second thought about how not having any is game-breaking for GW2 combat.

And people ask how anet could make a trait like diamond skin. Its looks consistent to other design choices. No health, no armor, no damage and insane cool downs. even WITH diamond skin, average self heal, and mist form on downed, it doesn’t make much difference. Any other class in the game only suffers from one of those draws back, and always excels in one or other area to compensate. Elementalist loose out here, and the stats in competitive combat tells the tale.

Goes raises the banner that says: Stop giving token gimmics to Elementalist and balance the class!

Oozo.7856:

I’m not convinced that the developers have a poor grasp on balance. I actually think they just have a soft spot for trolls and trolling. Stealth mechanics, perplexity, mobility warriors, misting through doors, etc etc.

GW2 is the most troll-friendly game I can think of. Diamond skin is a mechanic designed to troll a specific class and build.

I was going to post something similar to this yesterday, but it came off as too ad-hominem, but I’ll say it anyway. Most of the MMO devs I’ve seen interviews with (GW2 and otherwise) come of as trolls/smartarses who clearly have class/build biases and like abusing rock/paper/scissors design. I get a feeling every dev has their pet classes/builds and acts as a sort of lobbyist for adding buffs/interesting mechanics for their pet build. Does it become a game of inter-office politics where everyone is jockying for very specific buffs, rather than taking a holistic view of the game? This explains why there always seems to be an overpowered class/build. It’s more a case of “who gets their day in the sun” rather than achieving actual balance. Because they don’t want balance.

Here’s how Diamond Skin SHOULD work…

Conditions should still stick and tick, however they do 0 damage UNTIL the total amount of damage they would have done is equal to 10% (or even 20%) of the ele’s health and then they begin to damage as normal. Not sure if that’s even possible to program in gw2, but it’d be a lot more balanced than a blanket “until the ele is below 90% health, conditions do nothing.”

Joonks.7501:

Here’s how Diamond Skin SHOULD work…

Conditions should still stick and tick, however they do 0 damage UNTIL the total amount of damage they would have done is equal to 10% (or even 20%) of the ele’s health and then they begin to damage as normal. Not sure if that’s even possible to program in gw2, but it’d be a lot more balanced than a blanket “until the ele is below 90% health, conditions do nothing.”

sorry wrong button

Joonks.7501:
Here’s how Diamond Skin SHOULD work…
Conditions should still stick and tick, however they do 0 damage UNTIL the total amount of damage they would have done is equal to 10% (or even 20%) of the ele’s health and then they begin to damage as normal. Not sure if that’s even possible to program in gw2, but it’d be a lot more balanced than a blanket “until the ele is below 90% health, conditions do nothing.”

That would be an awful grandmaster trait and totally useless.

How about we tie DS to the earth attunment and have it function with lingering elements. This would give condi classes a window to apply conditions.

http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3362074
So this is a very long duel I had with an ele before the patch came out.

Please tell me how I am supposed to beat him now if he has diamond skin?

Brando.1374:

http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3362074
So this is a very long duel I had with an ele before the patch came out.

Please tell me how I am supposed to beat him now if he has diamond skin?

Ugh… you might start by:

- don’t just hit buttons trying to brute force your way through an opponent
- pay attention to your opponent: what they’re casting, how they’re casting and for how long, boons/conditions/buffs/etc.
- understand their build, how they use it, so you can avoid their strengths and exploit the weaknesses.
- At the very least, be mindful of your CDs and use them appropriately – i.e. don’t throw down your Dagger 4 when you don’t have any conditions on you; don’t use Flesh Golem’s Charge just to abate some pressure from a caster, use it to interrupt important casts like Heals or Churning Earth
- Don’t run face first into big damage skills like Churning Earth
- Don’t throw down staff marks and then run away from them.

that’s what I got from the first :30 or so. I couldn’t really take much more than that.

hackks.3687:

Brando.1374:

http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3362074
So this is a very long duel I had with an ele before the patch came out.

Please tell me how I am supposed to beat him now if he has diamond skin?

Ugh... you might start by:

- don’t just hit buttons trying to brute force your way through an opponent
- pay attention to your opponent: what they’re casting, how they’re casting and for how long, boons/conditions/buffs/etc.
- understand their build, how they use it, so you can avoid their strengths and exploit the weaknesses.
- At the very least, be mindful of your CDs and use them appropriately - i.e. don’t throw down your Dagger 4 when you don’t have _any_ conditions on you; don’t use Flesh Golem’s Charge just to abate some pressure from a caster, use it to interrupt important casts like Heals or Churning Earth
- Don’t run face first into big damage skills like Churning Earth
- Don’t throw down staff marks and then run away from them.

that’s what I got from the first0 or so. I couldn’t really take much more than that.

im a full condi dmg necro, I have no power, how the kitten am I supposed to get him below 90%? and on the off chance that I do going into water will bring him back up.

also I dont mind tanking churning earth, thats bleeds that I can use to heal myself or xfer back to him. I use dagger 4 for the blind also not only for condi removal.
but back to my point I cant damage him when he has above 90% health and my auto attacks dont hit hard at all.

Brando.1374:

hackks.3687:

Brando.1374:

http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3362074
So this is a very long duel I had with an ele before the patch came out.

Please tell me how I am supposed to beat him now if he has diamond skin?

Ugh… you might start by:

- don’t just hit buttons trying to brute force your way through an opponent
- pay attention to your opponent: what they’re casting, how they’re casting and for how long, boons/conditions/buffs/etc.
- understand their build, how they use it, so you can avoid their strengths and exploit the weaknesses.
- At the very least, be mindful of your CDs and use them appropriately – i.e. don’t throw down your Dagger 4 when you don’t have any conditions on you; don’t use Flesh Golem’s Charge just to abate some pressure from a caster, use it to interrupt important casts like Heals or Churning Earth
- Don’t run face first into big damage skills like Churning Earth
- Don’t throw down staff marks and then run away from them.

that’s what I got from the first0 or so. I couldn’t really take much more than that.

im a full condi dmg necro, I have no power, how the kitten am I supposed to get him below 90%? and on the off chance that I do going into water will bring him back up.

Well since you asked:

Personally, I’d send Flesh Golem after them while I wait for them to open. If they RTL to me, as soon as I see the character model change I’d be into DS and strafing while pre-casting Dark Path, so I could avoid the RTL and get in an easy Life Blast at close range when they pop out of it. If that LB and DP are enough to blow through Diamond Skin then I’m already set up for a Terror Nuke with Doom and can put them on the back foot and take the initiative in the fight. If I still need to kick out more direct damage, then I go to Life Transfer. I’d be sure to hold on to Flesh Golem’s Charge as well so that when I see them swap back to Water attunement I can interrupt their heal and then lay on the real condi burst.

The fight could be played completely different as well. That’s why understanding and paying attention to your opponent are critical to success in PvP combat.

You might be a condi build, but you’re not devoid of direct damage. Be creative. Come up with something.

Looking at the PVP build direct damage, scepter+dagger/staff will never beat diamond skin. The healing signet alone will 100% negate the auto-attack chain on scepter (assuming no crits). The signet heal does 220-350-ish healing per cast.

The only real counter a rabid necro has is to change the staff or offhand weapon to something that offers more direct damage as well as changing runes/sigils and mixing a rabid amulet with a different jewel, thus not being a pure rabid build anymore. The trait layout will work I think, but it needs to give up condi pressure for more direct damage (obvious), while not becoming too hybridized.

Kiriakulos.1690:

Belorn.2659:

Nickczh.6341:

“Immune to direct damage when health is below 10%.” .. imagine the possibilities..

Or they could simply give necromancers a second health pool and make it a class ability rather than a trait.

Really wish people would stop parroting that, maybe then we could actually get some survivability.

Necros have the WORST survivability and mobility in the game, even WITH deathshroud. That’s because for DS our class has no access to: blinks, evades, blocks, invulnerability, stealth, consistent HP recovery and sustainable stability. Any other class in the game makes use of some or most of these and never give a second thought about how not having any is game-breaking for GW2 combat.

Know why Necros in pvp spec for burst, nothing but burst and even more burst? Because any prolonged engagement is a default loss for us, the exact opposite of what our “class philosophy” is supposed to deal with combat.

I think ANet isnt too bad at balancing, it’s just that our class mechanic has actually become a curse for this class. Everything around the necro was, is and will be balanced taking into consideration this extra health pool that we have, and ANet is, evidently, too blind to see past their numbers and metrics and see how it actually works in practice.

How much damage can be mitigated with one invul/dodge vs a full LF bar? Unfortunately, all ANet will see is our 200% base HP and think it looks pretty kitten survivable, so we don’t get any vigor, blocks and what have we not.

Draehl.2681:

Oozo.7856:

I’m not convinced that the developers have a poor grasp on balance. I actually think they just have a soft spot for trolls and trolling. Stealth mechanics, perplexity, mobility warriors, misting through doors, etc etc.

GW2 is the most troll-friendly game I can think of. Diamond skin is a mechanic designed to troll a specific class and build.

I was going to post something similar to this yesterday, but it came off as too ad-hominem, but I’ll say it anyway. Most of the MMO devs I’ve seen interviews with (GW2 and otherwise) come of as trolls/smartarses who clearly have class/build biases and like abusing rock/paper/scissors design. I get a feeling every dev has their pet classes/builds and acts as a sort of lobbyist for adding buffs/interesting mechanics for their pet build. Does it become a game of inter-office politics where everyone is jockying for very specific buffs, rather than taking a holistic view of the game? This explains why there always seems to be an overpowered class/build. It’s more a case of “who gets their day in the sun” rather than achieving actual balance. Because they don’t want balance.

^ THIS. Just watch the last video and compare the Warrior/Guardian demonstrations to the Necro demonstration.