Guild Wars 2

We get a set of useless, selfish shouts and now a warrior can not only reflect projectiles, he basically rains down fire fields and gets a heal that heals for far more than our shout heal on max targets and a 10 second cd stun break….

And then a trait that gives 7/14% precision as ferocity while we are stuck with a 3 second chill on a 20 sec cd fear and 20% less damage from chilled foes…

Meanwhile we still have a few dark fields (weak) with even less access to combo finishers.

And reaper shroud is still less DPS than our normal mainhand dagger and now greatsword while the warrior’s primal burst skills are strictly designed to enhance his damage.

The shouts aren’t useless at all, our traits all got rebalanced really nicely, we have access to a crapload of fields and our finisher situation is getting better, I’d be surprised if Gee doesn’t address it when he can.

This complaining makes no sense. Necromancers have been getting a lot of great attention, and now we’re going to start complaining that other professions aren’t getting shafted? That’s idiotic.

Bhawb.7408:

The shouts aren’t useless at all, our traits all got rebalanced really nicely, we have access to a crapload of fields and our finisher situation is getting better, I’d be surprised if Gee doesn’t address it when he can.

This complaining makes no sense. Necromancers have been getting a lot of great attention, and now we’re going to start complaining that other professions aren’t getting shafted? That’s idiotic.

The shouts are useless in PVE. Feel free to argue that point. Nobody will use any of the shouts except perhaps the healing one, and even then that’s debatable compared to signet of vampirism. We will use the wells we always have, maybe signet of spite since death/reaper shroud is a DPS loss in PvE (unlike warrior’s berserker stance, which gives them a built in 10% attack speed and more frequent use to powerful burst skills).

I also don’t know what crapload of fields you’re referring to, or if you even read my post before hitting the reply key because I already acknowldged dark fields, which are USELESS IN PVE.

I don’t even know what finishers you’re referring to, in pve the only finisher of worth is a blast finisher, and where is ours?

You also mentioned traits being rebalanced nicely. So please explain to me the impact of Cold Shoulder and Shivers of Dread in PvE. Shivers of Dread Particularly since your only source of fear will be reaper shroud’s infusing terror explosion on a 20 sec cd. A minor to basically trigger 3 seconds of chill every 20 seconds? Very useful in PvE, where you want to use fear in particular.

We are going to start complaining that there are classes coming out, untweaked, with built in GROUP UTILITY.

You know, more fire fields on a warrior because if something was needed for warriors was more might stacking with the current state of Phalanx Strength warriors, and to top it all the next class to get a reflect is not the necromancer, who brings nothing of value to a group, but warrior who’s already a mandatory class in a PvE meta group.

I’m glad you’re happy about your reaper in your pvp. I’m not happy about reaper relative to the others in PvE.

Honest question:

What do you think it would take to make Necro a good enough option to take over current PvE meta classes?

Probably a buff that Rangers and Necromancers can apply reliably and easily. Likely a ferocity buff, and access to the ability to share any boons Necromancers get would give them a fighting chance. But… what do I know? =\

Didn’t Robert say we were getting projectile defense on shroud skill 2? I think he’s doing an amazing job with our class but he seems to have a lot to worry about with the expac, just give him some time.

Sabre.8627:

Didn’t Robert say we were getting projectile defense on shroud skill 2?

Projectile destruction from the from while using 2 yes

I swear, the people on this forum just aren’t happy unless they can find something to complain about.

Reaper looks like it’s gonna be pretty awesome with the upcoming buffs. Can we at least get through the next BWE before we start whining about it again? Please?

Blaine Tog.8304:

I swear, the people on this forum just aren’t happy unless they can find something to complain about.

Reaper looks like it’s gonna be pretty awesome with the upcoming buffs. Can we at least get through the next BWE before we start whining about it again? Please?

Zenith just wants Necro to somehow be a viable option for PvE meta, Reaper doesn’t add anything to that in its current form.

meow one twenty.4376:

Honest question:

What do you think it would take to make Necro a good enough option to take over current PvE meta classes?

Enough stuff can be retooled.

Make Spectral Grasp AoE 5 target cap. Voila, necros now have a binding blade utility.

Soul Spiral should be our reflect (not projectile destruction, which is inferior and doesn’t add group DPS).

Make Vampiric Aura life steal not total garbage so it actually adds comparable group DPS.

Blood Is Power is brought back to 15 stacks, aoe 15 sec duration (it’s a corruption with a 30 sec cd and no other feature than the might stacks…)

I don’t even understand why we’re adding projectile destruction to Death’s Charge. I don’t want to displace myself with a projectile defense feature in PvE. Once again, a design that only considers PvP implications without considering its use in PvE.

Well of Blood converted to a water field. Make it transfer conditions on you to opponents inside the well.

Bring down Well of Darkness to a 25-30 sec cd. Same treatment for all wells above 25 sec cd (at least as a PvE only change if WvW starts crying).

Locust Swarm affects 5 allies as an aura. Life Drain (dagger 2) is an aoe 600 range health channel that works like transfusion and heals allies nearby you. Lower its channel time or increase its DPS.

Corrosive Cloud weakens and periodically blinds foes in addition to the poison.

Retool the shouts the following way: (all shouts are instant except Chilled to the Bone)

“Your Soul is Mine!”

Make it give the full heal for the opponent cap. Instead, grant x amount of vigor to self and allies per opponent hit.

“Nothing Can Save You!”

Make the unblockable feature groupwide, give the group fury for x amount of time per foe hit.

“Rise!”

Jagged Horrors grant the bond to 5 allies ala Phantasmal Defender from the mesmer.

You and allies gain quickness per foe struck.

“Suffer!”

Immobilize, then chill. Allies gain resistance per foe struck.

“You are all weaklings!”

Add slow as well. Might procs are groupwide.

“Chilled to the Bone”

Cooldown reduced to 60 seconds. Quickness for 6 seconds for 5 allies (you are counted in the 5 figure).

Basically, make the theme more vampiric. You drain from foes to grant to your allies.

Minions would involve a much larger post.

Zenith.7301:

meow one twenty.4376:

Honest question:

What do you think it would take to make Necro a good enough option to take over current PvE meta classes?

Enough stuff can be retooled.

Make Spectral Grasp AoE 5 target cap. Voila, necros now have a binding blade utility.

What about giving Reaper’s Grasp a similar tracking as Binding Blade, but in a 90 degree cone in front of the player?

Soul Spiral should be our reflect (not projectile destruction, which is inferior and doesn’t add group DPS).

Something tells me the reason they gave Death’s Charge the Projectile Destruction was specifically for Ranger Longbow 4 counterplay. Giving Soul Spiral a reflect trait seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Make Vampiric Aura life steal not total garbage so it actually adds comparable group DPS.

Thoughts on doubling the damage but keeping healing the same?

Blood Is Power is brought back to 15 stacks, aoe 15 sec duration (it’s a corruption with a 30 sec cd and no other feature than the might stacks…)

I would like Master of Corruption to remain the same mechanically, but have the additional effect of giving boons to allies within range. Sacrificing ourselves for the good of the group isn’t unreasonable.

I don’t even understand why we’re adding projectile destruction to Death’s Charge. I don’t want to displace myself with a projectile defense feature in PvE. Once again, a design that only considers PvP implications without considering its use in PvE.

Covered earlier.

Well of Blood converted to a water field. Make it transfer conditions on you to opponents inside the well.

Mmm. I have different thoughts on this one. It definitely doesn’t give enough positives for its 40 seconds cooldown, and still doesn’t even when traited. Water field and condi transfers is a bit of a weird combo, all other water fields just remove condis. I think keeping it a light field but giving Retaliation, decrease the self heal coefficient by .1 and increase the pulse heal by 100%. As much as I would like a water field it just doesn’t seem right, although it would be great.

Bring down Well of Darkness to a 25-30 sec cd. Same treatment for all wells above 25 sec cd (at least as a PvE only change if WvW starts crying).

Fair enough for Well of Darkness.
Thoughts on others:
Well of Corruption – decrease cooldown to 35 seconds.
Well of Power Pulses Stability – 45 second cooldown. I think that’s fair since you have to stay inside it to keep the Stability, and base Necro really needs SOME form of stability.
Well of Suffering is fine.

Locust Swarm affects 5 allies as an aura. Life Drain (dagger 2) is an aoe 600 range health channel that works like transfusion and heals allies nearby you. Lower its channel time or increase its DPS.

Man, that’s a tough one. I really like the way you’re thinking with it, it just doesn’t seem feasible to me.

Okay, tell me how this sounds… Make Locust Swarm and Vampic into Auras and turn Vapiric Presence into a Grandmaster that lets you share your Auras with teammates (upon activation).

Corrosive Cloud weakens and periodically blinds foes in addition to the poison.

Would you take Projectile Destruction instead? It’s not a Reflect or a Blind but a 12 second Projectile Destruction is pretty huge, plus the Poison field + Soul Spiral.

That’s about all I have the energy for tonight.

To be fair, base warrior already have access to reflect and fire field. Rage skills are basically Physical skills 2.0 (only Anet don’t admit it).

If you look at the Berserker objectivly there is nothing “new” for the warrior. It’s basically the same profession with a tiny change (tiny but pretty cool) on the profession specific mechanism.

Now, If we look at the Reaper with the same objective view, they’ve done the same thing. They’ve taken the basics of the necromancer and adapt it in a new way.

PS.: Understand that I’m not stating about viability or how much better it is in this game to have instant, usefull and practical skill to match the fast natural pace of the game.

Edit :

Honest question:

What do you think it would take to make Necro a good enough option to take over current PvE meta classes?

The Necromancer is in dire need of some synergy with the other professions. In the end it can only be adressed by giving the necromancer more reliable combo finisher or altruistic traits.

Bhawb.7408:

The shouts aren’t useless at all, our traits all got rebalanced really nicely, we have access to a crapload of fields and our finisher situation is getting better, I’d be surprised if Gee doesn’t address it when he can.

This complaining makes no sense. Necromancers have been getting a lot of great attention, and now we’re going to start complaining that other professions aren’t getting shafted? That’s idiotic.

shouts are so-so, but that dmg nerf on Suffer wasn’t needed. Berserker has utility skill that does ~1600 dmg and it has 100% crit chance. the traits where ubber horrible and weak as hell, so a rebalance was needed

lets talk about casting speed a bit. have you ever looked behind the fancy animation of Gravedigger? i’d say no, and after the 50% dmg buff announcement you overlook it even more. 1.25s cast time(i can say it’s even more in game with the animation after the cast bla bla bla) for 1-hit skill? this is ridiculous. the animation on Gravedigger is totally unnecessary and has to be cut down immediately(or increase the speed like they did on Shattering Blow of Berserker utility skill). the skill does a useless hover in the air and a swing that doesn’t do any dmg. what’s the point of that? Berserker’s Shattering Blow summons a rock and punches it with the hand and all that in 0.5s cast time. they intentionally increased the animation speed(like the animation hack on Aion) so that the skill is fast: 9:56 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jd9QuYktMos

While I’ll hold off on comments about the strength of reaper shroud until next Beta, I do not see why anyone is upset. Necro has gotten more dev attention the past 3 months than it did in the last 3 years preceding it. Necro, regardless of other elites, is becoming popular due to just how well the Reaper is.

I’ll be honest, berserker to me looks unbelievably good and I can’t wait to try it, but stop hating on the reaper. The reaper isn’t about just dps, it’s a walking living tank.

Bah whatever

Everytime I visit this forum people complain about something some other profession got being way better than Necromancer.

Why does it matter if Necros are in the meta or not? I survive better on my necro than most of my other professions. I don’t think necros are useless, or maybe I just don’t care about that stuff :|

most played class = most buffs = most $$$

It’s like this in almost every online class based game, except for flukes that can possibly get away without doing that like WoW.

Everytime I visit this forum people complain about something some other profession got being way better than Necromancer.

Why does it matter if Necros are in the meta or not? I survive better on my necro than most of my other professions. I don’t think necros are useless, or maybe I just don’t care about that stuff :|

People like playing competitively. For some people that is fun as well. You can’t just leave them in the dust.

Dakunaito.9602:

shouts are so-so, but that dmg nerf on Suffer wasn’t needed. Berserker has utility skill that does ~1600 dmg and it has 100% crit chance. the traits where ubber horrible and weak as hell, so a rebalance was needed

And if this turns out to be an issue, we can provide that feedback in the next BWE, we aren’t even remotely close to that being the launch balance point.

Bhawb.7408:

Dakunaito.9602:

shouts are so-so, but that dmg nerf on Suffer wasn’t needed. Berserker has utility skill that does ~1600 dmg and it has 100% crit chance. the traits where ubber horrible and weak as hell, so a rebalance was needed

And if this turns out to be an issue, we can provide that feedback in the next BWE, we aren’t even remotely close to that being the launch balance point.

While I do think that our shouts need to have more impact (more damage would be great, though added effects wouldn’t be a bad thing either) I agree with Bhawb here in that it’s not much of a concern at the moment while we still have more testing to do with changes that have already been said to be happening

Vydahr.4285:

Bhawb.7408:

Dakunaito.9602:

shouts are so-so, but that dmg nerf on Suffer wasn’t needed. Berserker has utility skill that does ~1600 dmg and it has 100% crit chance. the traits where ubber horrible and weak as hell, so a rebalance was needed

And if this turns out to be an issue, we can provide that feedback in the next BWE, we aren’t even remotely close to that being the launch balance point.

While I do think that our shouts need to have more impact (more damage would be great, though added effects wouldn’t be a bad thing either) I agree with Bhawb here in that it’s not much of a concern at the moment while we still have more testing to do with changes that have already been said to be happening

^this. A LOT of people seem to be forgetting that this is a period a change between the specialization patch and when HoT drops, and even after that we’ll still be able to provide a lot of feedback and get things fixed once it’s dropped in the live environment, and Robert has show me that he does have his ear tuned into the necro thread and our concerns with his BWE post from before.

Bhawb.7408:

And if this turns out to be an issue, we can provide that feedback in the next BWE, we aren’t even remotely close to that being the launch balance point.

~1600 dmg and always crit + knockback. i don’t have to play in BWE to know it needs nerf

Warcry.1596:

Everytime I visit this forum people complain about something some other profession got being way better than Necromancer.

Why does it matter if Necros are in the meta or not? I survive better on my necro than most of my other professions. I don’t think necros are useless, or maybe I just don’t care about that stuff :|

There’s a lot to be said for stigma and public perception. I plan to main Reaper once HoT drops because I like the theme and feel of it, regardless of how good it actually is or isn’t. However, it will be immensely disappointing if Reaper/Necro is still in such bad shape that some groups refuse to take them to certain content because of their perceived (justly or not) lack of damage combined with their (objective) near-total lack of party utility or synergy. No fire field, no blast finisher, and no way to share might puts them in a really rough spot, and their innate durability (compared to some other classes) doesn’t mean anything in PVE when PVE is all about “Group does as much damage as it can, as fast as it can, nothing else matters.”

Personally, I think that the massive amount of long-duration Vuln that Reaper can stack should be counted as “party utility” but it seems to be disregarded because a lot of classes can stack smaller amounts of vuln and when you add them all up, it trivializes Reaper’s ability to solo-stack it like a madman. Moreover…

Might-stacking in general is too good, too important, and, frankly, unnecessarily overpowered. It creates a situation where any “serious” group needs a certain combination of classes to be considered fully effective. It mandates that your group has a Warrior, or a staff Ele+Blasts, or (soon) a Herald. That’s bad, narrow design for a game that supposedly doesn’t use the trinity system.

If might only stacked to a much-more-easily-achievable-by-most-classes-and-group-comps total of 10, and 10 stacks either provided the same benefit as 25 currently does, or the content was rebalanced to account for less mightspam, then the state of PVE class balance would be in a much better place.

Warcry.1596:

Everytime I visit this forum people complain about something some other profession got being way better than Necromancer.

Why does it matter if Necros are in the meta or not? I survive better on my necro than most of my other professions. I don’t think necros are useless, or maybe I just don’t care about that stuff :|

class is underpower and you expect us to just sit and do nothing? not maybe, you 100% don’t care about that stuff. and since you don’t care, you don’t know how we feel that we care. Chilling Nova trait has 15 sec ICD without the upcoming buff and does ~300 dmg, while Berserker has exact same trait but it spread burn it has “2” sec ICD and it does ~600 dmg. you expect us to not say anything while obviously traits aren’t balanced though they do the same thing, and Berserker’s trait is way better in both cd and dmg? ofc we will not let things like that slide and we’ll complain

Doubt it would change.

You can make might stacking equal across classes, warrior would still be mandatory because no other class provides 170 power+condidamage+precision+ferocity and 150 power from empowered allies. And warrior stacks might so simply, just use your regular attacks and the party will be might capped, no utility slots necessary.

Similarly you will always bring elementalists. Permafury from persisting flames, the highest DPS in the game besides thief and sinister engineer, water fields in your weapon, 25 vulnerability or pulsing blind from glyph, earth elemental to tank bosses for free (compared to ranger who needs to use a garbage DPS bear to do the same and with less health).

Nobody can stealth skip or blind like a thief. They have the highest single target sustained DPS. Stuff like their traps allows them to do tricks like the lamp orbs in Arah p4 with ease.

Mesmer has portal, alacrity, and quickness with some reflects.

Guardian is the king of reflects, aegis, group stability and protection uptime.

Sinister Engineer is the staff elementalist version of a condi spec, with the best water field in game (the turret), and just a vast amount and variety of fields and blast finishers.

People are saying to wait and see, but waiting for these next changes will still not make the Reaper top DPS, let alone top an ele’s dps by such a degree that people would rather take a reaper over an elementalist/warrior/thief/engineer without the group utility.

Shouts will still be bad in PvE. Minions will still be selfish and little more than a 1v1/roaming pvp gimmick. Wells are still not enough utility and too long a cd. Traits will still be PvP centric with no damage modifiers and few of PvE interest.

You’re really banking on the damage buffs to greatsword to be so large as to eclipse elementalists/engineers/thieves in the damage department by such a degree that reapers will become an option in meta groups. I’d call that unrealistic.