Guild Wars 2

Actually necromancers are one of, if not the best overall 1v1 class in the game. We have the highest defense with no investment. You go against a condition build? Use consume conditions and condition transfer, and all their effort is turned against them. Against a glass cannon? DS absorb the burst, fight it out until their next burst, DS again, continue. Fighting a guardian/ele that are trash without boons? Boon strip ALL the things.

There are plenty of things that necromancers lack, it is the reality of how balance works. That said, 1v1 is not an area we are lacking in at all.

I don’t feel left out. I recommend you try other classes and find one that better fits your playstye. I never thought the Necromancer would be my class, but the playstyle fits me better than any other class does.

I have played all 8 professions, and I can honestly say I think the Necro is the most balanced. You can handle various tasks without having to do an exhaustive rebuilding. You commented that we are missing all these tasks, but you are comparing specific builds to an entire class. If I were to take every single thing the Necromancer can do and compare it solely to a bunker elementalist you would think the bunker ele is horrible.

It’s about perspective and playstyle.

I do not agree.
Win most battles with my necro (p/t/c gear throughout, 0/30/30/10/0 traits, undead runes*6 and sigil of corruption on staff, hydromancy on oh dagger and the on crit bleed stack one on sceptre).

The ONE thing I feel necro’s could do with/more of? Vigor.

Necro’s “defense” is supposed to be their high base health pool + DS. Obviously at the start of fights DS is at zero, so obviously they are at a disadvantage at the start, but at full DS they are relatively competitive 1v1.

Also Necro’s are one of the strongest team fighters in the game, able to do massive sustained AoE damage. If you play any MOBAs, necros serve the “carry” role in a team. The game is not balanced around 1v1, and the sooner people understand that the better.

Main defensive issue is when I get focused by a crowd, I have zero stun breakers. When I get stunned, I try to be patient and wait for my chance to dodge roll away. Many times, I remain stunned endlessly, and that chance never comes.

Skyro.3108:

Necro’s “defense” is supposed to be their high base health pool + DS. Obviously at the start of fights DS is at zero, so obviously they are at a disadvantage at the start, but at full DS they are relatively competitive 1v1.

I would consider conditions part of our defense as well; every single weapon set has at least 2 conditions that reduce damage (chill, cripple, fear, immobilize, weakness, blind). Even boon stripping might and retaliation can be considered a defensive tool.

Other classes have different strengths. We are very durable (highest base health, shroud form, great elites) instead of mobile. As for boon stacking, youre right there, but look at what we do to people that boon stack (evil grin). It makes us more of an anti-hero than a hero, but either way works if you get the win in the end right? We are capable of great dps and can we practically puke long duration conditions on anyone that comes near (except burning) easy. Other classes dont do that, play it for what it is.

i agree with your OP and i approve this message. there is entirely too much damage in the game for areanet to gut ds and life force skills they way they did. and to agree with some, no this is not a 1vs1 game. not yet. but it should not be a 1vs1 game for all the classes, not just for the necro. no class should perform better in 1vs1 over group play if all classes cant do it with the same efficiency. i want some balance across the classes.

Bhawb.7408:

Actually necromancers are one of, if not the best overall 1v1 class in the game. We have the highest defense with no investment.

Warrior, Mesmer and depending on build Guardian (shout) and Engie (kit elixir) outdo Necro 1v1 in by miles (in that order).

Bas.7406:

I have played all 8 professions, and I can honestly say I think the Necro is the most balanced.

I do have to object, since despite how much people hate the idiotic Bullrush-Endure Pain-Frenzy 100b kitten, Warriors, to me at least, seem more balanced than Necros, some stuff like WoB heal on point defense, Plague of Darkness, Epidemic (and if it actually worked at full effect Plague Signet) are some pretty nice things, but on a actually team on team scale they are overpowered, especially when used right, but the lack on other segments (LF generation derps, a sub par minior trait setup, lack of stability and protection - 2 boons that we should be able to keep on during fights as a attrition class or at least have while in DS as effects if traited) could make some people call it "balanced", but to me it seems more like a cop out for the situation. As i said once or twice already, for pvp (from my prespective atleast) the need to balance professions out is: : Ranger > Engie > Ele > Necro > Guardian > Mesmer > Thief > Warrior (in term of who first needs fixes for more viable builds and some nerfs to obviously too strong skills/traits that pretty much leave no real competitive choice).

Then again all i know from paid tPvP is from twitch streams, my pve play of the classes and a bit of random ramble in HotM.

Jayce.5632:

no class should perform better in 1vs1 over group play if all classes cant do it with the same efficiency. i want some balance across the classes.

Actually, that should be dependant on build, not every class should be able to 1v1 like a thief, but remember a theif cannot be as supportive to the team as a ele, its on making a right mix and not letting either side go too far (like the as mentioned are for obvious reason *cough backstab/stealth effects and multi aura chaining*.

Warriors are not that good in 1v1. You see a whole two warrior builds in tPvP, 100b and rifle (on occasion). 100b is laughably easy to deal with as a necro, keep throwing out CC, and if they just happen to catch you save your DS for the 100b. Rifle just isn’t that strong of a build, you are in more danger from a thief.

We beat guardians in 1v1. Their CC isn’t reliable enough to keep us down, and they either drop like a bag of bricks if they do damage, or they just can’t do enough damage to be a threat to you. Remember that guardians are trash without boons, and we have boon stripping.

I never see elixer Engies in 1v1, so can’t talk on them, and obviously Mesmer’s are just insane in 1v1, if they are using the right build, and are reaching skill cap (an average mesmer is terrible, a great one is godly).

Necro is necro. It is what it is. It does not have that many outstanding strength, and has tons of outstanding weaknesses. You would have to discover the fun of this class for yourself. If you can’t, play another class. ^^

Bhawb.7408:

Warriors are not that good in 1v1. You see a whole two warrior builds in tPvP, 100b and rifle (on occasion). 100b is laughably easy to deal with as a necro, keep throwing out CC, and if they just happen to catch you save your DS for the 100b. Rifle just isn’t that strong of a build, you are in more danger from a thief.

We beat guardians in 1v1. Their CC isn’t reliable enough to keep us down, and they either drop like a bag of bricks if they do damage, or they just can’t do enough damage to be a threat to you. Remember that guardians are trash without boons, and we have boon stripping.

Warriors are probably the strongest thing for 1v1, just because people like to spam the god kitten broken 100b setup that abuses the fact that stances dont overwrite eachother doesnt mean thats the only setup, there is also Longbow & Sword/Axe spin2wing in flames solo 66% of the time immobilize setup, Hammer cc knockaround and not to forget Maxe/Shield that can block all important burst Necro can put out.
Seriously, i wanna see a Necro beat a Warrior (with both on same skill level and starting with everything off cooldown), even if starting with 100% LF and high chill uptime you wouldnt be able to do that unless the Warrior does some major screw ups.

For Guardians, while being truly able to kill us, they can outlast us since they can heal up faster, so even if you make a build designed to counter the boon spam with their own class mechanics and pretty short cooldown condition removals thus the depending on build.

CHIPS.6018:

Necro is necro. It is what it is. It does not have that many outstanding strength, and has tons of outstanding weaknesses. You would have to discover the fun of this class for yourself. If you can’t, play another class. ^^

Mention one of those “tons of weaknesses” that isnt lack of boons (protection and stability, vigor is for the week without DS) that isnt countered in another way.

anyone who says necros are inferior, GTFO

i have played a necro since launch, my build allows me to tank and deal silly amounts of damage. Fully buffed (might stacks) im running around with 4500 attack with 2800 armour and 27ishk hp. Tank the conditions to be put on yourself and cast consume conditions or Well of power..

i tank in zergs, lay wells wilst attacking and watch the bodies fall.

The danger with buffing if the class doesnt need it means the class becomes flavor of the month, and then its under constant fire for nerfs. Rather not see that. Some fixes are needed to stuff that obviously doesnt work right but its a solid class overall. If you dont like it play something else is the best advice.

Andele.1306:

Warriors are probably the strongest thing for 1v1, just because people like to spam the god kitten broken 100b setup that abuses the fact that stances dont overwrite eachother doesnt mean thats the only setup, there is also Longbow & Sword/Axe spin2wing in flames solo 66% of the time immobilize setup, Hammer cc knockaround and not to forget Maxe/Shield that can block all important burst Necro can put out.
Seriously, i wanna see a Necro beat a Warrior (with both on same skill level and starting with everything off cooldown), even if starting with 100% LF and high chill uptime you wouldnt be able to do that unless the Warrior does some major screw ups.

For Guardians, while being truly able to kill us, they can outlast us since they can heal up faster, so even if you make a build designed to counter the boon spam with their own class mechanics and pretty short cooldown condition removals thus the depending on build.

Um, Andele, usually you are on the right track, but every single tournament necro is shaking their head vigorously no here. The only way a warrior with skill kills you is if you make a huge mistake or he has a buddy to hold you down. Warriors with all CD’s avaialable are still laughably easy to kill. There is a reason they are bumped from almost every single high end tournament team.

Hammer builds are fancy little niche builds, that do have some fun in knocking you around, but in the end they can’t kill you. I don’t care if I am slowed, crippled, immobilized 66 percent of the time because I am not a thief or elementalist. That Longbow build is hilariously bad in anything that isn’t WvWvW zerging or pve. Actually know there is a great video of 5 warriors running that build and having a hilarious time just wrecking people. What they don’t show is how when they ran into a coordinated team who figured them out how fast they got wrecked?

Warriors are in a very very bad place currently in tournament play, but in a very very good place in pve and wvwvw.

If you are having trouble with a guardian as a necro, which I hope you aren’t, than we need to talk about how easy they are to farm kill.

My necro has 29k hp, 2.5k armour, 3k attack. I find it really fun, really powerful.

Necromancers are probably one of the strongest 1v1 professions in the game, capable of taking on multiple people solo with a combination of skill and luck. I can think of maybe two or three builds that can take them on and win.

That said, some of the major problems I’ve run into:

Death Shroud. Doom and the second lifebar are both great. Everything else about this mechanic, from the remaining skills to traits to visuals and UI-blocking, is awful.

Utility. Some of the worst in the game outside of 1v1 situations. If the skill isn’t useless, it’s mediocre, with a couple exceptions – but I guess you could say this about every other class!

WvWvW Presence. Again, outside of 1v1 or small-scale situations. When it comes to zerg vs. zerg combat, a condition-specced necromancer is often searching for something to do. As it stands, you usually just drop your wells, go into plague form and float around a bit. Powermancers fare no better. This brings me to another point…

Boon/Condition Dilemma. In the current meta, boon application and condition cleansing heavily outpaces boon removal and condition application. Sort of like how it worked in GW1. Or wait, maybe it was the other way around, but the imbalance is there. This is a very delicate thing to address.

Death of ‘Gimmick’ Builds. Remember the GW1 Necro? I’m not even talking the late-game N/Rt autopilot crap. I’m talking about consume conditions/plague sending/plague signet Condition Sponges that took conditions from allies and became stronger for it. I’m talking about the minionmancers that, despite having several staple skills, saw more variety in their builds than we see in the entire class in GW2. The widespread hex/debuff Curse-based builds. The lifetap Blood Magic health/energy batteries. These builds were extremely fun to play, and the skill system in GW2 just throws those all away. The traits ignore them and the utilities that try to remake them are subpar, and the class suffers for it.

I could throw out a wealth of ideas on how to address these, but given the general lack of comment (as far as I know) on the Necromancer class as a whole, it would serve no point save receiving a couple pats on the back and/or criticism.

I agree that sheer variety of builds is gone from GW2. However, it is a much better thing, and an easier issue to address than GW1’s issues. They can change traits, they can change skills, they can change the numbers, but the base design of the game has a much better balance, and the devs will have it a lot easier trying to balance 50 skills per class, compared to 500 (times two for secondary classes) like before.

Bas.7406:

Um, Andele, usually you are on the right track, but every single tournament necro is shaking their head vigorously no here. The only way a warrior with skill kills you is if you make a huge mistake or he has a buddy to hold you down. Warriors with all CD’s avaialable are still laughably easy to kill. There is a reason they are bumped from almost every single high end tournament team.

Hammer builds are fancy little niche builds, that do have some fun in knocking you around, but in the end they can’t kill you. I don’t care if I am slowed, crippled, immobilized 66 percent of the time because I am not a thief or elementalist. That Longbow build is hilariously bad in anything that isn’t WvWvW zerging or pve. Actually know there is a great video of 5 warriors running that build and having a hilarious time just wrecking people. What they don’t show is how when they ran into a coordinated team who figured them out how fast they got wrecked?
Warriors are in a very very bad place currently in tournament play, but in a very very good place in pve and wvwvw.

From what i undrestood, Warriors aint in structured team (paid tournaments) is, well, that they are just outclassed in everything that matters if you are actually organized, i think that there was even a podcast somewhere on twitch (just search GW2) that mentions that.
Also its not longbow, its the MANLY SWORD/AXE SPIN2WIN build (it just abuses the fire combo field from longbows and the now added bleeds).

As for guardians no thats just personal play, not as a necro, but a guardian (53% of my random pvp was and still is guardian), never got any necro (nor caltrops thief and even no condition mesmer) to actually beat my kitten into downed unless outnumbered since 1 condition pre 5s, up to 9 depending on hits pre 20 seconds, 3 pre 47 seconds if needed, a full condition to boon swap pre 60 seconds and if kitten goes wrong a condition removed on heal use and a full removal on ultimate usage (so every 90 seconds); so all that, all 3 utilities being stun breaks and 3 pretty short cooldown gap closers when applied to knowledge of necro animations...
As for power builds, 2.5k armor 14k hp, the mentioned you cant do kitten to me ulti, 4 additional applications of aegis and still perma retaliation worked out most of the time. The only class i had problems when i played pvp were the annoying spirit rangers.

Again just to mention, probably not the best person to talk about it with since random pvp and some streams i leave running while eating aint even close to actual expirience in tPvP since... well i got a Dota 2 key *cough <- also a lazy bum and bad loser if enemy somehow jumps by 100 points and wins despite being worse at combat*.

@andele, I was already to type when I ran into you got a Dota2 key and I can’t remember the rest. I saw the visual’s and was unimpressed, but apparently it’s pretty big. I got a Firefall key :P and I am going to do a test on that with my brother, but I don’t think anything will pull me from gw2 except for testing purposes.

Bas.7406:

@andele, I was already to type when I ran into you got a Dota2 key and I can’t remember the rest. I saw the visual’s and was unimpressed, but apparently it’s pretty big. I got a Firefall key :P and I am going to do a test on that with my brother, but I don’t think anything will pull me from gw2 except for testing purposes.

Oh nice, firefall kinda reminded me of… well first person of Starcraft or toon 40k Battle of Macragge chapter (power armor, bugs, machines and girls in skin tight leather suits with little actual machine armor and stalker bolters). There are tons of keys for Dota 2 rolling on steam and the visuals are little when you get into the meat of the game, just as in the original. Also there is nothing as satisfying like owning people with Anubarak or Atropos.