Guild Wars 2

Cant say im surprised. But theres no mention of the hp fix in the patch notes. I suppose it could of been implemented without being mentioned in the patch notes. But we shall see soon enough.

The only thing in the notes that im glad has finally been sorted is greater marks. Doesnt change that marks are stupid without the trait though.

lmfao, is this seriously what we get for this patch. WHAT THE kitten ANET

Expect a fix in 6 to 9 months.

Releasing more bugged content for pve and fixing underwater skills are far more important.

Didn’t really expect any buffs this patch but the fact this wasn’t fixed even after the fiasco of proving anet dead wrong and being told it would be addressed is just ridiculous.

This is absolutely outrageous. If this had been a thief issue it would have been hotfixed in less than a week. Are they trying to lose players on purpose?

Fungalfoot.7213:

This is absolutely outrageous. If this had been a thief issue it would have been hotfixed in less than a week. Are they trying to lose players on purpose?

I think more of less they are just outright lying to certain classes about doing anything to improve them in the hopes they stick around month to month and maybe buy something out of the gem store. When sales drop enough they may fix a thing or two to get some people back and sell a bit more before they quit again and go play neverwinter or another real game. Its all about the $$$ and thats painfully obvious.

When a post about warrior is made they jump right on it.

When it’s necro, we can all go screw ourselfs.

My engineer will see more light for now, which could be a good thing all in all

Kinda disapointing to see visual and tooltips fix when we have this issue approved by Anet a couple of weeks ago.

I seem to be less squishy while downed. Not 100% sure right now though.

It might be fixed but not listed. Someone test it.

I am almost positive that this has been fixed three days ago.

Edit: I stand corrected. I think they actually kittened it up again this patch, but w/e.

Insidion the Insane.9752:

I am almost positive that this has been fixed three days ago.

Nope i was instagibbed only yesterday

Circular problems.

Not many people playing Necromancer > internal ArenaNet stats show this > lower priority for Necro updates as a result of low usage > less updates causes less people to play Necromancer > Not many people playing Necromancer > REPEAT

Sigh, how disappointing… I was hoping that my short break would mean it would be fixed by the time I get back.

“Its a bug yes, it works for us, we’re letting it be” – Usual..

Still not fixed.
Well, I think this is the final nail in the Necros are ignored coffin.

Didn’t they just find out about this bug like two weeks ago? It probably takes them at least that long just to get fixes put into testing.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Didn’t they just find out about this bug like two weeks ago? It probably takes them at least that long just to get fixes put into testing.

We found out about this bug over a month ago, and spent quite a bit of time trying to get a response/recognition from a Dev. That lack of response for this particular issue reveals an underlying problem that some people are addressing here: that Necromancers are, in general, just completely ignored. That, and the fact that we have been waiting for this for such a long time with little communication on their part, is a little frustrating. I just hope it gets fixed sooner than later.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Didn’t they just find out about this bug like two weeks ago? It probably takes them at least that long just to get fixes put into testing.

Players have been reporting this bug for weeks on end now.
Couple of weeks ago someone made a video showing the bug, only then did Anet replied.

Glenn.3417:

When a post about warrior is made they jump right on it.

When it’s necro, we can all go screw ourselfs.

Warrior is usually the top played class in any game. Have to tend to the highest pop.

Necro is just like an awkward niche class that they confusedly changed right up till release, and never quite figured out what to do with it, or how to fix it for a meaningful role.

It’s not fixed if my quick necro/warrior vs. moa test is correct. ANet began investigating on this on 13th May: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Video-Necromancer-s-Lower-Downed-HP/2018027

So yeah, they probably need more time for a fix so that their amazing QA can make sure we don’t get even more bugs (cough).

I’m extremely disappointed.
I’ve been barely playing GW2 lately, only logging in for guild missions and dailies.
Been waiting for them to fix this and other issues.

This almost makes me want to quit for good.
…but I trust that eventually everything will be fixed.
Shame it’s taking so long.

lookitsandrea.8531:

We found out about this bug over a month ago, and spent quite a bit of time trying to get a response/recognition from a Dev.

Right. So from what I know about the game development pipeline, that means there probably wasn’t enough time to a) nail down exactly what was causing the bug, b) exactly what was needed to fix it, c) text the fix, d) test the fix in a live environment, and e) get the fix ready for the next code push.

lookitsandrea.8531:

That lack of response for this particular issue reveals an underlying problem that some people are addressing here: that Necromancers are, in general, just completely ignored.

It’s like this with every profession and every bug. From the perspective of a Necro main, it may look like you’re being ignored, but from the developer’s perspective, they have hundreds of issues they need to resolve at any one time across a variety of game modes.

For an example of what I mean, the Engineer trait Deployable Turrets straight-up didn’t work until a patch or two ago, and it looks like the fix they implemented caused it to break in other ways. This is a big game with a lot of bugs and glitches, and while ANet’s feet should absolutely be held to the fire to fix them, it’s myopic to think there’s some kind of conspiracy to ignore one profession or another. Even Mesmers are finding new bugs and glitches with nearly every patch.

Blaine Tog.8304:

lookitsandrea.8531:

We found out about this bug over a month ago, and spent quite a bit of time trying to get a response/recognition from a Dev.

Right. So from what I know about the game development pipeline, that means there probably wasn’t enough time to a) nail down exactly what was causing the bug, b) exactly what was needed to fix it, c) text the fix, d) test the fix in a live environment, and e) get the fix ready for the next code push.

lookitsandrea.8531:

That lack of response for this particular issue reveals an underlying problem that some people are addressing here: that Necromancers are, in general, just completely ignored.

It’s like this with every profession and every bug. From the perspective of a Necro main, it may look like you’re being ignored, but from the developer’s perspective, they have hundreds of issues they need to resolve at any one time across a variety of game modes.

For an example of what I mean, the Engineer trait Deployable Turrets straight-up didn’t work until a patch or two ago, and it looks like the fix they implemented caused it to break in other ways. This is a big game with a lot of bugs and glitches, and while ANet’s feet should absolutely be held to the fire to fix them, it’s myopic to think there’s some kind of conspiracy to ignore one profession or another. Even Mesmers are finding new bugs and glitches with nearly every patch.

You are right that I am biased because I main a Necromancer (although I’m a very casual player – I haven’t even reached my first level 80 yet in 9 months of playing), and I certainly don’t have any serious knowledge of all the bugs other classes have… However, one thing that really strikes me about this issue, as opposed to specific traits… is that 1/3 Downed HP affects the entire class, no matter your play style (unless you only PvP), no matter your build, etc. The more important fact, however, is that they failed to even respond to the issue after weeks of posting in the forums. I understand that they are busy, however when this is a bug that is affecting every single PvE and WvW Necromancer (again, regardless of what traits, builds, etc. they use) then that’s a problem. I would expect, and hope, that they would extend that courtesy to other classes as well and if there was an issue like this with a Warrior, or a Mesmer, and I played those classes… Then I would certainly be posting about it.

Blaine Tog.8304:

lookitsandrea.8531:

We found out about this bug over a month ago, and spent quite a bit of time trying to get a response/recognition from a Dev.

Right. So from what I know about the game development pipeline, that means there probably wasn’t enough time to a) nail down exactly what was causing the bug, b) exactly what was needed to fix it, c) text the fix, d) test the fix in a live environment, and e) get the fix ready for the next code push.

lookitsandrea.8531:

That lack of response for this particular issue reveals an underlying problem that some people are addressing here: that Necromancers are, in general, just completely ignored.

It’s like this with every profession and every bug. From the perspective of a Necro main, it may look like you’re being ignored, but from the developer’s perspective, they have hundreds of issues they need to resolve at any one time across a variety of game modes.

For an example of what I mean, the Engineer trait Deployable Turrets straight-up didn’t work until a patch or two ago, and it looks like the fix they implemented caused it to break in other ways. This is a big game with a lot of bugs and glitches, and while ANet’s feet should absolutely be held to the fire to fix them, it’s myopic to think there’s some kind of conspiracy to ignore one profession or another. Even Mesmers are finding new bugs and glitches with nearly every patch.

It was said that a hotfix will be implemented ASAP. The problem was already identified. So it really should have been in this patch. Its been more than 2 weeks.

Unpredictability.4086:

Circular problems.

Not many people playing Necromancer > internal ArenaNet stats show this > lower priority for Necro updates as a result of low usage > less updates causes less people to play Necromancer > Not many people playing Necromancer > REPEAT

This is it pretty much. We are a low population class. There just isn’t a lot of incentive for ANet to care at this point. Bug fixes for this class means less bug fixes for the populated class because of time constraints. In fact this is a pretty common occurrence with MMOs in general. The high population classes always get the quick and frequent fixes while the low pop classes get back burnered. Usually what ends up happening is they wait until an expansion to go back and actually take a hard look at the low pop classes and find out why they don’t work or whats wrong with them. The reason for this is because expansions bring in renewed interest and potential new players to all classes.

This exact same thing happened with warlocks in WoW. The few things warlocks were good at (fear, monster kill crits with Curse of Elements reducing resists into the negatives) got nerfed and warlocks in general were forgotten. There were some token buffs such as the addition of a fear effect to Death Coil, but largely warlocks were just not something Blizzard cared about until BC. When BC came out, they went back and completely revamped the warlock talent trees. They also merged several skills together to give warlocks a better sense of utility. This combined with a new expansion (BC was a lot of peoples first experience with WoW believe it or not) which always generates a renewed interest in a game, as well as adding new players, suddenly a lot of people started playing warlock. Warlocks started receiving a lot more attention in the following patches because there were a lot more people playing that class than before..

lookitsandrea.8531:

You are right that I am biased because I main a Necromancer (although I’m a very casual player – I haven’t even reached my first level 80 yet in 9 months of playing), and I certainly don’t have any serious knowledge of all the bugs other classes have… However, one thing that really strikes me about this issue, as opposed to specific traits… is that 1/3 Downed HP affects the entire class, no matter your play style (unless you only PvP), no matter your build, etc.

I’m not saying it isn’t an important bug for ANet to fix. I’m saying there are a lot of important bugs for them to fix and this one still needs to go through the development pipeline like everything else.

spoj.9672:

It was said that a hotfix will be implemented ASAP. The problem was already identified. So it really should have been in this patch. Its been more than 2 weeks.

Two weeks isn’t remotely enough time for them to fix a bug like this. Game development is a slow, arduous process.

Kravick.4906:

This is it pretty much. We are a low population class. There just isn’t a lot of incentive for ANet to care at this point.

If you assume that the GW2 player base is static, then yeah, it doesn’t matter whether ANet supports 8 professions or just 1. If all GW2 players were happy to play Warriors, they wouldn’t need anything else.

The game offers this variety in professions precisely because they want to capture the interest (and money) of a wider player base. There are plenty of people who wouldn’t play the game, or wouldn’t play it as much, without the Necro. Heck, I have seven characters at level 80 and I’ve been playing the heck out of my Necro recently just because she’s the one I’ve been in the mood to play. Without the Necro, I might have just played some other profession, but maybe I would’ve switched over to some other game or form of entertainment.

Without the Necro, GW2 would lose players. If ANet were to spruce up the Necro, they likely would gain players. The best advertising is word of mouth and it is in ANet’s best interest to have their Necro players gushing to their friends about how awesome a profession it is.

Also, this thead seems to indicate that Necros aren’t actually all that uncommon afterall.

Kravick.4906:

This exact same thing happened with warlocks in WoW. The few things warlocks were good at (fear, monster kill crits with Curse of Elements reducing resists into the negatives) got nerfed and warlocks in general were forgotten. There were some token buffs such as the addition of a fear effect to Death Coil, but largely warlocks were just not something Blizzard cared about until BC. When BC came out, they went back and completely revamped the warlock talent trees. They also merged several skills together to give warlocks a better sense of utility.

This seems like a poor example to use as support for your argument. If anything, it seems like you’re saying the Necro has some serious love coming its way precisely because of its supposedly-low number of players.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Without the Necro, GW2 would lose players. If ANet were to spruce up the Necro, they likely would gain players. The best advertising is word of mouth and it is in ANet’s best interest to have their Necro players gushing to their friends about how awesome a profession it is.

But thats not how business works in reality. Remember, they have finite resources. What is better to spend those resources on. Retaining a large portion of your player base by catering to the high population classes via bug fixes and improvments, or use those resources on fixing a low population class that won’t necessarily bring any new customers and potentially alienate your player base on the higher population classes?

This seems like a poor example to use as support for your argument. If anything, it seems like you’re saying the Necro has some serious love coming its way precisely because of its supposedly-low number of players.

No, its a very excellent example because that is exactly what happened in World of Warcraft. Warlocks were a low pop class that brought nothing to the table except Soul Stone res and Curse of Elements. Mages were better than them in practically every other way. They got completely ignored until BC when Blizzard only took the time to revamp that class and bring them up to par with the other classes because of a paid expansion. Expansions bring renewed interest and new customers at the same time. It was then, and only then, that Blizzard was willing to devote resources into potentially retaining new customers that might be interested in playing the warlock.

When a company works on what will eventually be a paid expansion, they will have a lot more resources dedicated to the task. This means more people to work through the balancing, testing, and bug fixing. Right now, ANet isn’t even working on an expansion. It was only last month that NCSoft even suggested that GW2 might receive a paid expansion. Remember, ANet is NCSoft. They don’t do anything unless NCSoft gives them the budget to do so. Right now ANets primary concern is retention. You don’t waste your time fixing a class barely anyone plays.

What I am saying is, ANet will most likely keep on ignoring us until a paid expansion. At which point they will do a full balance pass on the necromancer because then, and only then, will it make financial sense to do so.

Kravick.4906:

What I am saying is, ANet will most likely keep on ignoring us until a paid expansion. At which point they will do a full balance pass on the necromancer because then, and only then, will it make financial sense to do so.

That’s a good point. I only started playing WOW from WOTLK and my main has always been a lock. If we take mists of pandaria, this expansion had a huge redesign for the talent system and warlocks ended up having the most changes amongst all the classes while not getting touched much before it, unless something was OP(as always ha ha). In addition to being a low pop class you can again add the facts that necro was redesigned and heavily nerfed before release which probably put the necro designer through hell and he had to rush those changes without being able to come up with something decent. The amount of work that needs to be done to fix our bugs and then start thinking about class balance is tremendous(either redesign or a lot of core changes) and most likely won’t be done until an expansion appears. Funny how these days nearly any big corporation game has some incompetence in the way they handle things and some of them are just plain disgusting in the quality of service that the games provide. The ones at fault are probably greedy people at the top who care about moneys and only them. The devs most likely cannot do anything about it although they may(and I hope they do) wholeheartedly wish to have the resources to fix everything. You cannot come out and say oh “We’re not gonna do anything until the next expansion so bare with it” since the higher ups could sue you lol. Greedy companies and corporations, deadlines, pressure and all that disgusting stuff. People end up having to lie to the customers and keep up stupid acts cause of these things.

But it’s very sad actually if you think about it this way: Necro players, you represent a very low population and your necro interests have to be sacrificed for the sake of other high population classes. Even though you are the same customers that paid for the game, we will completely kitten on your interests.

Kravick.4906:

But thats not how business works in reality. Remember, they have finite resources. What is better to spend those resources on. Retaining a large portion of your player base by catering to the high population classes via bug fixes and improvments, or use those resources on fixing a low population class that won’t necessarily bring any new customers and potentially alienate your player base on the higher population classes?

Finite resources or not, there’s also a finite number of players who will play Elementalists or Warriors or Thieves. Focusing solely on what’s most popular now is an incredibly short-sighted way to run a business., especially with as fickle an audience as gamers.

Furthermore, PvP in this sort of game stales and dies when everyone plays the same specs and professions all the time. ANet wants to make GW2 into a popular eSport and that’s not going to happen until there are enough viable specs for people to play around with. They can’t do that with a profession or two tied behind their back, especially when one of those professions is one with such strong and interesting teamfight options as the Necromancer.

Finally, ANet seems to agree with me, given that they did fix a number of Necro bugs in this patch, about as many as they fixed for anyone else . There are still bugs to fix for the Necro, but there are still bugs to fix for everyone else.

Kravick.4906:

You don’t waste your time fixing a class barely anyone plays.

I probably should’ve opened with this, but what’s your source for this?

Kravick.4906:

What I am saying is, ANet will most likely keep on ignoring us until a paid expansion. At which point they will do a full balance pass on the necromancer because then, and only then, will it make financial sense to do so.

Gem sales means it always makes financial sense to make their current players happy, even for the Necro if we assume it’s a niche profession. Niche players tend to be more dedicated in their obsession than those who roam from flavor-of-the-month to flavor-of-the-month. Do you think Joe Powergamer is going to buy a Molten Alliance Pick for the D/D Ele he plays because he read they’re OP? Probably not. Johnny Necro might buy one for his Necromancer, though, because he loves throwing around the powers of darkness and turning his enemies strengths into their weaknesses and plans to continue doing so for years.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Kravick.4906:

But thats not how business works in reality. Remember, they have finite resources. What is better to spend those resources on. Retaining a large portion of your player base by catering to the high population classes via bug fixes and improvments, or use those resources on fixing a low population class that won’t necessarily bring any new customers and potentially alienate your player base on the higher population classes?

Finite resources or not, there’s also a finite number of players who will play Elementalists or Warriors or Thieves. Focusing solely on what’s most popular now is an incredibly short-sighted way to run a business., especially with as fickle an audience as gamers.

Furthermore, PvP in this sort of game stales and dies when everyone plays the same specs and professions all the time. ANet wants to make GW2 into a popular eSport and that’s not going to happen until there are enough viable specs for people to play around with. They can’t do that with a profession or two tied behind their back, especially when one of those professions is one with such strong and interesting teamfight options as the Necromancer.

Finally, ANet seems to agree with me, given that they did fix a number of Necro bugs in this patch, about as many as they fixed for anyone else . There are still bugs to fix for the Necro, but there are still bugs to fix for everyone else.

Kravick.4906:

You don’t waste your time fixing a class barely anyone plays.

I probably should’ve opened with this, but what’s your source for this?

Kravick.4906:

What I am saying is, ANet will most likely keep on ignoring us until a paid expansion. At which point they will do a full balance pass on the necromancer because then, and only then, will it make financial sense to do so.

Gem sales means it always makes financial sense to make their current players happy, even for the Necro if we assume it’s a niche profession. Niche players tend to be more dedicated in their obsession than those who roam from flavor-of-the-month to flavor-of-the-month. Do you think Joe Powergamer is going to buy a Molten Alliance Pick for the D/D Ele he plays because he read they’re OP? Probably not. Johnny Necro might buy one for his Necromancer, though, because he loves throwing around the powers of darkness and turning his enemies strengths into their weaknesses and plans to continue doing so for years.

Don’t take this the wrong way, but it sounds like you might be a little bit naive when it comes to how business works these days.

I understand exactly what your saying, and you would think that is how businesses should work, but that isn’t how business works. You placate the maximum allowable number of customers with the least amount of resources possible to keep costs low so you can obtain the most possible money in the shortest amount of time.

In this case, necromancers get sacrificed because we represent a very low possible retention and gem sales figure. The other classes have much higher populations (except engi, but they have a very high population in sPvP) and its better to placate them and keep them playing as long as possible. Necromancers represent such a small fraction of the player base that ANet probably wrote us off a long time ago.

Also, Gem sales don’t go to ANet. They go straight to NCSoft since ANet is a wholey owned subsidiary. ANet operates on a fixed budget.

Kravick.4906:

In this case, necromancers get sacrificed because we represent a very low possible retention and gem sales figure.

Source?

Kravick.4906:

Blaine Tog.8304:

Kravick.4906:

But thats not how business works in reality. Remember, they have finite resources. What is better to spend those resources on. Retaining a large portion of your player base by catering to the high population classes via bug fixes and improvments, or use those resources on fixing a low population class that won’t necessarily bring any new customers and potentially alienate your player base on the higher population classes?

Finite resources or not, there’s also a finite number of players who will play Elementalists or Warriors or Thieves. Focusing solely on what’s most popular now is an incredibly short-sighted way to run a business., especially with as fickle an audience as gamers.

Furthermore, PvP in this sort of game stales and dies when everyone plays the same specs and professions all the time. ANet wants to make GW2 into a popular eSport and that’s not going to happen until there are enough viable specs for people to play around with. They can’t do that with a profession or two tied behind their back, especially when one of those professions is one with such strong and interesting teamfight options as the Necromancer.

Finally, ANet seems to agree with me, given that they did fix a number of Necro bugs in this patch, about as many as they fixed for anyone else . There are still bugs to fix for the Necro, but there are still bugs to fix for everyone else.

Kravick.4906:

You don’t waste your time fixing a class barely anyone plays.

I probably should’ve opened with this, but what’s your source for this?

Kravick.4906:

What I am saying is, ANet will most likely keep on ignoring us until a paid expansion. At which point they will do a full balance pass on the necromancer because then, and only then, will it make financial sense to do so.

Gem sales means it always makes financial sense to make their current players happy, even for the Necro if we assume it’s a niche profession. Niche players tend to be more dedicated in their obsession than those who roam from flavor-of-the-month to flavor-of-the-month. Do you think Joe Powergamer is going to buy a Molten Alliance Pick for the D/D Ele he plays because he read they’re OP? Probably not. Johnny Necro might buy one for his Necromancer, though, because he loves throwing around the powers of darkness and turning his enemies strengths into their weaknesses and plans to continue doing so for years.

Don’t take this the wrong way, but it sounds like you might be a little bit naive when it comes to how business works these days.

I understand exactly what your saying, and you would think that is how businesses should work, but that isn’t how business works. You placate the maximum allowable number of customers with the least amount of resources possible to keep costs low so you can obtain the most possible money in the shortest amount of time.

In this case, necromancers get sacrificed because we represent a very low possible retention and gem sales figure. The other classes have much higher populations (except engi, but they have a very high population in sPvP) and its better to placate them and keep them playing as long as possible. Necromancers represent such a small fraction of the player base that ANet probably wrote us off a long time ago.

Also, Gem sales don’t go to ANet. They go straight to NCSoft since ANet is a wholey owned subsidiary. ANet operates on a fixed budget.

So refreshing to see someone who can see past b/s and at the core of the issue that is called corporate monkey pen.
Doesn’t matter where anet is located, what they want, how they feel… they are on a leash of a korean corporation that stamps f2p games like cheap peanuts in a bar. In no way am I making excuse for anets continuous streak of lying and ignoring things though. People keep saying downed hp this… and that blah blah blah it was only a month ago… maybe they couldn’t get it working yet.. People knew about this since DS downed state was removed. That was how long ago now? Almost a year? Please…
They need time to test? What?… Honestly? It’s like saying bethesda would learn a lesson. I’m sorry both have astronomically low possibility. I’ve yet to see anet actually >FIX< something necromancer related without breaking something else or stamping “working as intended” tooltip. They are good at making empty or false statements though. Like their famous “necros need a lot of love”, we all know how that one worked out. In case you don’t, that resulted in scepter getting nerfed by, if I recall right, 30 or so %.
Corporate b/s train stops for no one. It just carries b/s and no matter what your argument is, it won’t stop or give a kitten .

HiSaZuL.2843:

I’ve yet to see anet actually >FIX< something necromancer related without breaking something else or stamping “working as intended” tooltip.

Fun fact: there’s a running joke in the Mesmer community that ANet can’t get a patch out without bugging out something else about their weapons or traits. Aren’t the Mesmers supposed to be ANet’s golden child?

Blaine Tog.8304:

HiSaZuL.2843:

I’ve yet to see anet actually >FIX< something necromancer related without breaking something else or stamping “working as intended” tooltip.

Fun fact: there’s a running joke in the Mesmer community that ANet can’t get a patch out without bugging out something else about their weapons or traits. Aren’t the Mesmers supposed to be ANet’s golden child?

Yes, but mesmers actually GET attention that isn’t but a bunch of tool tip fixes. So when ANet actually looks to fix something of theirs, it will look like they break their stuff all of the time since they get way more attention. We barely get any attention at all so this “break stuff they’ve tried to fix” thing is very rarely seen by us. As I said, all we ever get is tool tip fixes. Kinda hard to screw that up really.

Kravick.4906:

We barely get any attention at all so this “break stuff they’ve tried to fix” thing is very rarely seen by us. As I said, all we ever get is tool tip fixes. Kinda hard to screw that up really.

And yet they still manage it on occasion. Glorious, isn’t it?

Kravick.4906:

Blaine Tog.8304:

HiSaZuL.2843:

I’ve yet to see anet actually >FIX< something necromancer related without breaking something else or stamping “working as intended” tooltip.

Fun fact: there’s a running joke in the Mesmer community that ANet can’t get a patch out without bugging out something else about their weapons or traits. Aren’t the Mesmers supposed to be ANet’s golden child?

Yes, but mesmers actually GET attention that isn’t but a bunch of tool tip fixes. So when ANet actually looks to fix something of theirs, it will look like they break their stuff all of the time since they get way more attention. We barely get any attention at all so this “break stuff they’ve tried to fix” thing is very rarely seen by us. As I said, all we ever get is tool tip fixes. Kinda hard to screw that up really.

Have you managed to find that credible source that shows Necros have a substantially smaller player base than other professions?

There have been occasional surveys done and stuff posted on reddit.

Besides that, just make a mental count of how many times you see them in PvP and PvE (hint: not much).

I find it amusing that other classes complaign about the most unimportant bugs not being fixed and throw abuse left right and centre at Anet even when things are regularly addressed for their class. Whereas we are probably the most accepting class in the game even though our class is completey ignored. Too many necro’s give the devs excuses.

Was looking at the mesmer forums, they are all raging their beans off at phantasmal beserker not being fixed. Although it seems fixed to me as it was never broken and was just a damage indicator display bug. Funny how we are the most grateful to Anet for our broken and bug riddled class.

JonPeters.5630:

Ok we found a good repro case. It has to do with how death shroud and downed used to interact. I will get someone on it today and try and get a fix to you all asap.

Hmmm. Apparently this takes more than 200 man hours of coding to fix based on the time elapsed from the red post to now.

Sorry, Jon. I like you and I respect the effort you put forth to communicate with all of us, but in this case you over promised and under delivered. I can appreciate that there is a limit to the amount of things your staff can accomplish in a given month, but it is clear that no resource capable of fixing the issue was “on it” when you said they would be. Might not be your fault, but it is not helping the community feel like A-Net is being up front with them.

@Blaine Tog

So in your mind, Anet have been doing all they could for this bug?

You know we discovered that bug like 2 month ago right?

We made I don’t know how many post about it.

In the necromancer forum -> No Answer

In the bug forum -> No answer, even while keeping it on front page for 2 weeks.

In the WvW forum -> Finally an answer from a Mod saying they would look into it.

a while after

In the necromancer forum -> Somoene make a video about it, Answer from Dev :

“This video is actually great. Thank you. I see that you have 1/3rd the health. This is not happening to my necromancer on live nor am I seeing it on test. Is this only happening when downleveled?
Jon”

Does it seems like the mod did communicate the bug? Not at all. Jon didn’t seem to be aware of it.

Pardon me if I’m a little annoyed by this. I have been part of the player that tried to reach Anet about it for 2 month.

And yes a bug can’t be long to debug, and yes there are other bugs in game. But could you please list me the bugs more important then this horrible unbalance? Please, tell me other class that have such a bug.

Not like it’s also the same class that have the worse AI minion in the game (pathing for you Bawz).

Excuse Anet all day if you want.

I saw a lot of flaw in Anet debugging, I’M wondering what the hell is happening there? There seem to be an issue.

Each time they debug/balancew a skill that can be traited, they bug it.

Few example :

Spinal Shivers : Added damage on boon
Result : When traiting it, you don’t have the damage on boon effect.

Engineer Turret : Added new active effect and changed cooldown
Result : When using deployable turret, you get the old turret.

Recently
Greater mark -> The target is now bigger when using greater marks
Result : 20% reduced cooldown no longer work on debugged marks.

ect…. I could continu like that.

It happens each freaking time they have a case like this. Yet they continu to do it, I even doubt if they test what they are coding. Surely doesn’t help that they don’t have a test server.

You’ll tell me it’s prolly complex to take care of that kind of bug?

No it’s not.

Engineer had a bug like this with their medpack. Once traited, they would have lower cooldown, and their adrenaline pack would not stack swiftness.

A dev saw in on pvp forum, debugged it instantly for next patch. We asked for more debug, he said he had 5 minutes, not 1 week. So it took 5 minutes to debug this.

Yet it happens each freaking patch.

The same kind of bug each freaking patch.

So you tell me they are doing all they can to debug our case, I tell you I think they have issue on testing and work method.

After all those thing, yes I grow tired of the same old sh****. Been waiting since release for minions to work in WvW.

P.S : I know our hp bug is prolly more complicated then the traited abilities bug, I’m only saying if they have issue with 5 min debug, imagine with a major bug.

P.S 2 : I had to vent it. I know it’s harsh for the devs, but I have waited so long for some debug, it grew up on me.

Yep, I definitely still noticed our crap downed health last night at the Fire Shaman fractal boss. It’s really annoying to have zero time to allow allies to res me because a piece of dust landed on me while I was downed.

As an aside, minion builds of any type will never work in WvW because of the massive amount of AoE. This is not a coding issue, this is an issue of recognizing the environment and adapting to it. Rangers have it way worse than necros in WvW because so much of their class’ power is wrapped up in the pet that dies before doing anything.

@Drarnor

Depend how you play WvW.

Gank Squad pet build are still viable with it. I used to run a MM build wiithout staff in WvW in a gank squad. In small fight, if my minions didn’t bug, I could be really efficient.

But yeah, if you zergm you will be destroyed.

And a BM Ranger pet is nearly as tanky as a player. If the ranger don’t put it on aggresive, he shouldn’t have issue with it.

And in roaming they are one of the best class. Crazy mobility and regen.

True enough. Even so, half the complaining I see about minions in WvW seems to be from folks that don’t recognize that they are no good in ZvZ and objective control (towers, keeps, and SM) situations, since they keep commenting that the minions die instantly. At least necros have the option of swapping for different utilities in that situation. Rangers don’t.

This is a bug that discourages group play… Who wants to take a character that when downed, is pretty much automatically and determinedly dead?

Either way, I sent feedback into the ANet Support. They responded that "The Development Team is aware of this issue at this time and they are currently working on addressing it. " That may be a standard response, but I’ll try to take some comfort from it and hope that it is true.

@Lookitsandrea

Yet they did answer that for the necro minions too, like 1 month after release.

Don’t get your hope too high.

Kardiamond.6952:

@Lookitsandrea

Yet they did answer that for the necro minions too, like 1 month after release.

Don’t get your hope too high.

How disappointing, though not surprising.

Unpredictability.4086:

There have been occasional surveys done and stuff posted on reddit.

Besides that, just make a mental count of how many times you see them in PvP and PvE (hint: not much).

Actually, I see them all the time. About one-eight of the time in PvE and WvW, actually. The other day I was in an Arah pick-up group with 3 Necros (I was one of them). It ended up being kinda a mistake just because one of the bosses had a massive condition reduction effect and low-cooldown massive AoE damage that was overwhelming our Deathshrouds, but everything else was easy. I have to say, popping Epidemic on a mob that has three Necros wailing on it is absolutely hilarious.

That said, anecdotal evidence is notoriously inaccurate and vulnerable to observer bias. I would be really interested to see some user data from Anet, irrespective of this thread.

Kardiamond.6952:

@Blaine Tog

So in your mind, Anet have been doing all they could for this bug?

I am generally dissatisfied that Anet doesn’t devote more resources to bug fixes and balance. For this specific bug, though, they were only able to reproduce it 15 days ago. In game development time, that’s basically nothing.

What I most take issue with, however, is this victimized attitude that Anet has something against the Necromancer specifically. You find a similar sentiment in most profession forums, actually, which is part of what makes it so ridiculous.

Pushing for bug fixes is good. Getting melodramatic about them is not. Nor is ignoring the realities of game development.

Kardiamond.6952:

And a BM Ranger pet is nearly as tanky as a player. If the ranger don’t put it on aggresive, he shouldn’t have issue with it.

Or tankier, depending on your build (my Ranger’s cats can generally drain-tank through a whole camp wailing on them), but pets can’t dodge or block and recalling them only goes so far.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Unpredictability.4086:

There have been occasional surveys done and stuff posted on reddit.

Besides that, just make a mental count of how many times you see them in PvP and PvE (hint: not much).

Actually, I see them all the time. About one-eight of the time in PvE and WvW, actually. The other day I was in an Arah pick-up group with 3 Necros (I was one of them). It ended up being kinda a mistake just because one of the bosses had a massive condition reduction effect and low-cooldown massive AoE damage that was overwhelming our Deathshrouds, but everything else was easy. I have to say, popping Epidemic on a mob that has three Necros wailing on it is absolutely hilarious.

That said, anecdotal evidence is notoriously inaccurate and vulnerable to observer bias. I would be really interested to see some user data from Anet, irrespective of this thread.

Kardiamond.6952:

@Blaine Tog

So in your mind, Anet have been doing all they could for this bug?

I am generally dissatisfied that Anet doesn’t devote more resources to bug fixes and balance. For this specific bug, though, they were only able to reproduce it 15 days ago. In game development time, that’s basically nothing.

And yet players were able to reproduce it over a month ago?