Guild Wars 2

Hi There,

I know we have a lot of post about Minions AI, but I feel like it’s a major game breaking bugs for one of the most important aspect of the necromancer.

I have been playing MMO for a long time, and no offence to Anet, but this is the only bug that I can remember that affected my gameplay so much.

I played a minion master for 2 weeks, testing a lot of build and gears. I wanted to prove people wrong about it, that it was still viable without a competent AI.

Well they were right, the bugged AI just make it so unreliable, you miss 50% of your dps once it happens. I would say about 3 fight out of 4, some minions won’t attack.

I know we can’t ask Anet for an answer, but it would be really cool and helpful, if we could get an ETA about it. Are they working on it? Are they aware? Is this as hard to solve as the culling issue?

The only come back we had, was :

JonPeters
“It does not give a free res. These guys can’t rally you. Also they die in about 11 seconds, not 2 seconds. I would like them to have a bit more survivable, but the real problem is obviously them aggroing. Necro minions are supposed to aggro based on what you attack only, so if this particular minion is not following that rule that is the real problem. We are currently investigating it and will make any changes we think are necessary.”

• This post is a month ago old. We are having this issue since release, and it was one of the most known issue we had.

• So in november, they started investigate it. We didn’t get any news after that. We are still in the dark. We don’t even know if they will only investigate the “reanimator” trait, or every minions. We hope for the second choice.

• In the november 15th patch, I was keeping my MM build, just because I thought it would finally happens. Nope, it didn’t happen. Nothing in the patch note about it. It was still a nightmare in game to have every one of your minions to at least attack once.

• Just yesterday, another bug solving patch, nothing about the necros. All good, it happens. But we still has a lot of bug, more then most class, maybe except Ranger.

Elementalist got a big list of bug resolved, and they even have live response on there forum, that will be debugged right away tonight.

I think we would deserve an ETA on this issue, how it is going, when can we expect it. I know it’s must not be a simple bug to resolve, it must be a nightmare. Anet is doing an incredible job, and I thank them for this.

But a major bug like this, I would expect more

Thank you for reading.

P.S : I don’t remember Elemtalist sending Anet TWO cakes!

Last patch of last expansion is my guess. Along with every other Necro fix.

Hi. I’m a software engineer with a decade of experience in the field. While I am not a game developer, I’ve done plenty of work with distributed (a.k.a., cloud) realtime services and some work with geodata. I know a thing or two about systems like ANet’s real-time synchronized environments (albeit not at the time and accuracy resolution they maintain).

In general; pathfinding and player-assist AI are not easy problems to fix. They require low-latency, time-critical computations. A lot of things can affect it depending on ANet’s implementation. Given the pivotal importance of LoS in GW2’s PvP and WvW sub-games, changes have to be made very carefully. You can see nerfs everywhere to make sure LoS is a valid defense (most notably the recent mesmer changes).

You probably don’t care about that, though. You want a bugfix. Just be aware that minion AI bugfixes are much more work for humans than, say, the Evasive Arcana changes. There are a limited number of humans on staff, and many classes currently have problems. So don’t feel like it’s personal or ANet specifically hates the necromancer; they’re juggling a lot of concerns at once with limited resources.

@KirinDave

I know all of this, and even wrote it in my thread. I’m not underestimating this bug, as it can be a really difficult bug to solve. I’m personnaly an indy-kind game developper, and I hate the AI part! But it also surprise me that a bug like this, made is way to release

I’m not asking for a bug fixe right now RIGHT THERE!

I’m asking for an ETA, just to know where they are at.

Communication is the key, I will be happy if I can at least know they are working on it, and maybe a date. They never even confirmed the bug

Kardiamond.6952:

I know all of this, and even wrote it in my thread. I’m not underestimating this bug, as it can be a really difficult bug to solve. I’m personnaly an indy-kind game developper, and I hate the AI part! But it also surprise me that a bug like this, made is way to release

Realtime A* isn’t happening.

But then you can appreciate why super-hard-to-fix bugs seldom get confirmed. Sometimes the right call is to say, “We can’t fix this.” That kind of call infuriates players. Better to not have that conversation in public, sadly.\

And I am not sure why people are so obsessed with minion pathing. Only a few of them really matter. I’ve had a great time with my necro and I seldom use minions at all.

@KirinDave

I doubt the AI can’t be fix, since other class minions use it (guardian, ranger to an extend) and it’s working.

Also, your last paragraph sound kinda selfish?

Because you rarely use minions, it’s not important? It’s not because you don’t use something, that other don’t. How many player on the forum posted about choosing the necro class because of the minions. Man even in GW1 Necro were a minions class.

It’s one of the core aspect of the class, sure we can play without it. I love the necro class. But it’s sad that we are missing such a huge part.

And it’s not only the pathing, it’s the AI. It affects every minions except Flesh worm. Minions don’t attack, don’t follow, go different ways, attack what you don’t want. That’s a lot more then pathing issue.

Let’s say Water attunement for Elem would bug out. Wouldn’t work 50% of the time. Would you say it’s not big deal since you rarely use it?

Kardiamond.6952:

@KirinDave

I doubt the AI can’t be fix, since other class minions use it (guardian, ranger to an extend) and it’s working.

Most other minions have a variety of pathing problems too. The only exception seems to be ranger, and their pets sometimes take pretty impossible paths. Turrets are likewise pretty silly right now with their targetting. Mesmers are pretty irritated with pathing errors during shattering, which can really mess up their burst.

Everyone relying on independent AI pathing has this problem. Necros just have it more.

Kardiamond.6952:

Because you rarely use minions, it’s not important? It’s not because you don’t use something, that other don’t. How many player on the forum posted about choosing the necro class because of the minions. Man even in GW1 Necro were a minions class.

I do not care about GW1 in this forum, this conversation, or with this player base. If GW1 necros are super cool, and they sound like they were super double kitten cool, then that’s really great. Please go play that game.

Kardiamond.6952:

And it’s not only the pathing, it’s the AI. It affects every minions except Flesh worm. Minions don’t attack, don’t follow, go different ways, attack what you don’t want. That’s a lot more then pathing issue.

I’ve seen the “minions refuse to do anything” but, usually as a precursor to the “I myself cannot do anything and all my actions are flashing and I am not lagged out because things are still attacking me and people are running by” bug. It is annoying. It happens rarely to most folks I talk to.

Kardiamond.6952:

Let’s say Water attunement for Elem would bug out. Wouldn’t work 50% of the time. Would you say it’s not big deal since you rarely use it?

I’m not taking the bait of spurious comparisons. This example is irrelevant. We both agree Minion AI should be fixed if that’s possible, let’s leave it at that. Personally, I am not sure what “fixed” actually means without giving everyone the controls that Rangers have over their minions.

@KirinDave

I shall not prononce the word GW1 with you ever then. Seems like something happened between you and Gw1

But yeah, that you want it or not, minions are a core aspect of Necromancer. They have a complet skill type (“Minions”) dedicated to them.Also a complete traits line.

Turret works like our Flesh Worm, and yeah will you can’t aim with them, it still reliable. Flesh Worm I think everyone is happy with the AI. My main was an engineer, and turret were a lot better then our minion. They didn’t stop attacking without a reason.

Shatter Mesmer are the FotM build for mesmer, and will having minor issue with pathing, it’s far from affecting the overall performance. Give me minions hitting for 7k, and I won’t mind the unreliable AI. It could even be a feature : “Minions are crazy, but thery hit like a truck”.

And your description of the issue is far from being the reality. I can post video tonight if it happening MOST fight, they are just standing there clapping for me. The folks you are talking too must not use minion a lot.

Giving the control like a Ranger would work. It would be the best solution, and the solution most game use.

You can also make minion attack when you attack something, I think it’s how it’s supose to be right now. It would be Ok, still not the Ranger control, but since they are undead/demon minion, it would be logic.

Kardiamond.6952:

Giving the control like a Ranger would work. It would be the best solution, and the solution most game use.

You can also make minion attack when you attack something, I think it’s how it’s supose to be right now. It would be Ok, still not the Ranger control, but since they are undead/demon minion, it would be logic.

The only thing I disagree with your post is the ability to command minions. That’s kinda the ranger’s thing.

I think Jon said minions were supposed to only attack what you attack. We obviously know this isn’t true at times, but I’m hoping the AI gets fixed soon™.

You are right,

I edited my post and forgot to put back the part where I said sicne it’s a Ranger ability, I’m pretty sure we won’t have it.

But yeah, attacking the same target as us would be cool.

And yesterday I went back to MM build, and I can confirm it’s as worse as it was before.

If you precast your minions, they are pretty sure to just chill around.

Using the activate skill is the only way to maybe make them attack.

If you precast bone minions, you’ll have such a hard time hiting somoene with them, it’s crazy. You have to cast them during fight, they will act like homing missile like they are supose to. (slow homing missile)

When you run from a fight, Flesh Golem will a gentleman and stay and die fighting the ennemies. That’s annoying because you’ll lose him in zerg for no reason. You’ll also lose him everytime you enter the water.

KirinDave.6451:

And I am not sure why people are so obsessed with minion pathing. Only a few of them really matter. I’ve had a great time with my necro and I seldom use minions at all.

Well, duh?

If you don’t understand why people are so obsessed with the minion AI (or lack thereof), I suggest you try incorporating more minions into your gameplay. Go Minion Master for a couple of weeks and let us know how that worked out for ya.

KirinDave.6451:

I’m not taking the bait of spurious comparisons.

I don’t think the OP was trying to bait you with a spurious comparison. Seems to me that he was trying to put the minion AI issue into perspective for you. Minions are an integral part of the Necromancer profession and some of the minions are bugged to a point where it’s actually game-breaking. Just like it would be game-breaking for an Elementalist if Water Attunement didn’t work.

Working for a company that does this kinda stuff all the time (not acknowledging the complaints with our technology and hope that at some point devs manage to fix it before it makes us look bad), I’m not all that surprised that Anet hasn’t responded to the thousands of support tickets, or the many many posts about the Necro’s broken minion AI. I say “not surprised” in a very jaded, cynical sort of way, obviously lol

We know it’ll be hard work, complex, and a multitude of factors to be considered. We’re not dumb, and we’re not children.

What we are (and please read this with a very calm tone lol), though, are customers. Customers who are paying for a product that has a problem, and really we just want some kind of response. Just a “Hi, sorry we haven’t had a chance to talk to you about this, but we know it’s a problem, and it’s on our list of things to do” at the very least.

Even better would be a “Hey, the guys who were supposed to be communicating with our members have been murdered for their complacency, and we’ve gotten this into an upcoming patch…Here’s when you can expect it…”

…and, of course, ideal would be a comforting hug, maybe ask us if we’ve lost weight, and then finish it off with confirmation that a hotfix is going in right this second (I know, I’m such a dreamer)

Well, they can write working AI for hundreds of attacking Centaurs , Undead NPCs for events but not for Necro Minions ? Something is weird here…

Ever thought about that if they fix Necro Minion AI, Necros could become to good for PvE with a Death Magic build ?

i have the impression ANet could fix the AI but they dont want to…….

If they could reduce Warrior Player AI they would do it

I’M pretty sure warrior player AI is also bugged right now

You can be sure that if there would be something wrong with NPC UI Anet had it fixed long time ago. Look at the Patchnotes and the proportion of PvE and PvP / Class Bug fixes and you get a clear view of the priorities. Next Balance Patch is on 14 Dec. , maybe the Necro get´s something fixed but i have really no confidence. There are so many Bugs or things that are simply annoying like not seeing Boons and Conditions while in DS etc. . I also don´t understand why Rezzing and Stomping in stealth is OK but in DS not, another Anet mystery. So Minion UI is only one thing among many and as long as Mr. Peters is figuring out how awesome DS is i guess there is no time for fixing Necro Bugs.

draugris.9872:

I also don´t understand why Rezzing and Stomping in stealth is OK but in DS not, another Anet mystery.

A bit offtopic. Given the fact that you can still be feared, knocked, dazed etc. in DS unless you have a 3 sec stability in the beginning, while in stealth you have to depend only on AoE to interrupt someone.

If you have to ask for an ETA, you should know the answer is “Soon.”

Note that “Soon” can mean anytime between tomorrow and the end of the game.