Guild Wars 2

I was derping around on my necromancer trying to come up with a build when it occurred to me that the main issue with building my necro was the stat bonus differential with spite and curses.

What I mean by this is that Spite is Power(Damage) and condition duration (dot duration) and Curses is Precision (crit) and Condition Damage (Dot Damage). The problem is that this is not synergistic with the trait offering making people feel the need to take Curses in power/crit builds just for the +crit or take Spite in the condition builds just for the +duration with no reason in terms of the actual traits.

Simple fix:

Make Spite Give Power and Precision and make Curses give Condition Damage and Condition Duration.

Why:

This will allow people to make the specialized builds with 30 and 0 and whatever or 0 30 and whatever. This will make Necro builds more centralized and powerful without changing the flavor of the class in anyway.

Discuss.

btw I am not trying to say there aren’t other bugs just that I think this would be a quick and easy way to bring necromancers from the bottom of the pile to the middle.

I’m reluctant to comment too strongly in either direction because I haven’t looked too closely at all the classes traits, but this is something I’ve also been wondering about ever since I rolled an elementalist alt.

Lots of classes have trait lines that split up valuable stat bonuses, however I know that at least elementalists get both precision and crit damage on the same line: Air. Ever since I saw that (it stood out to me, because my original necro build was a crit based build), I’ve been wondering if there was something in particular about ele’s that caused them to get this convenience, or if it’s just one of those things…

A little more on topic: while pooling “condition damage” and “condition duration” in one line, then putting “precision” and “power” in another would help create more efficient (by which I mean builds with less superfluous point placement) builds and thus more diverse builds (because of all the newly freed points), I’m skeptical that this will be a buff we’ll see. The general trend across the classes (at least the classes I’ve seen), seems to be to keep such blatantly complimentary stat bonuses seperate.

Thieves most powerful tree gets crit and crit damage as well as incredible minors.

Quick way to fix the necro:

• Make Spite tree give Power and Precision.
• Make Curses tree give Condition Damage and Condition Duration.

I love your idea, you should use formatting options to make it clear like this.

+1

All I saw is that you don’t like condition damage. W/o precision you will be sitting at 10 bleeds at most. Not sure which spec you are playing but if anything crit chance is the second most important stat for condition based necro after condition damage.
Also condition duration makes most sense in spite tree simply because spite tree mainly contains traits that in some form synergize with vulnerability or use of debuffs. Minions benefit most from vulnerability stacking. Axe damage again vuln stacking. Some power based builds don’t use axes all that much but those tend to not really use spite tree anyway. Mainly I’m refering to daggers/wells or power builds that revolve around using DS for damage/might/fury stacking. But even the DS power build uses vulnerability… so again condition duration applies.

Also that kind of relocation would do nothing to fix core issues with class. Class lacks damage, any distinct role, it serves next to no function as support class due to simple fact you bring barely any noticable healing and no buffs at all. Past specing for 3 sec protection on wells. And so on….. no reason to even list at this point. Its all been said over and over again.

HiSaZuL.2843:

All I saw is that you don’t like condition damage. W/o precision you will be sitting at 10 bleeds at most.

Can you please show us some proof to confirm this opinion?

I apply up to 24 stacks of bleed in less than 10 seconds with 25% crit. And an average of 12-15 bleeds constantly.

You do not need “+bleed on crit” Weapon Runes on a condition Necromancer, we attack too slow for that, and not every one of us want a glass cannon “Precision + Cond + Power” stats items. Some of use use “Vit+Cond” with no Precision items.

You will be better using the +10% condition duration Rune.

24 stack trick has a cooldown. And for me frankly I dislike getting skills that situational.
Considering hemo and duration from spite dont even stack i fail to see your point. You gotta sacrifice something. For me duration in pvp setting is the least of my worries since any person worth discussion will have a condition removal tools. So again once per 10 second squabble 24 bleeds won’t really help against people that are at least familiar with what they are doing.
And never suggested or mentioned dropping vitality… or toughness or any of that.
There is a difference between sustainable stack of debuffs and boom i blew a whole lot of debuffs and now I got no utility skills left to use. Bleeds on crit is the most universal rune that works and its not just rune. Speed is lack luster yeah… but so is everything else. Why did you even bring power if you are discussion condition related specs?
Anyway I said what I wanted to say about ops idea… anything else… i don’t even care any more nor am I going to argue semantics of someones preferences and opinions.

Then we agree to disagree, lets keep it civil like it was.

Quick way to fix the necro:
Make Spite tree give Power and Precision.
Make Curses tree give Condition Damage and Condition Duration.
I love your idea, you should use formatting options to make it clear like this.
+1

this this this. i already make a topic so arenanet can give us a amulet witn condition damage + tiughness + vit. as a condition build th 30o precission is more than enough for my build. we dont benefict much from precisison because our atack rates are very very low with staff and average (at best) with scepter, i test it on golem and we aplly very few bleed form crit, precision with good for classes that have a good atack rate not for us that have the worse combination in taht chapter using staff and scepter.

yap, i dont care at all about precision, i dont need those insane 50% crit chance that dont do must for my condition build still my option is or rabid amulet and shaman, so the choice is obvious is rabid since shaman is even worse, low condition damage and compassion that is almost useless on Necro

That while making sense off the name/theme, doesnt make sense with traits
Rather go Crit damage and precision goes to curse, Cond Damage and Power on Spite while SR gets the Cond duration.
Also in that case Spite would give 2 primary stats what would make it a must have.

i agree with what was said, I think if ArenaNet did this change would help in being able to create new and efficient builds. At present what I do with more condition duration in the trait of spite if I want to make a build focused on power? nothing …

Arenanet do this change pls, and u will help the necro class to build diversity.

HiSaZuL.2843:

Also that kind of relocation would do nothing to fix core issues with class. Class lacks damage, any distinct role, it serves next to no function as support class due to simple fact you bring barely any noticable healing and no buffs at all. Past specing for 3 sec protection on wells. And so on….. no reason to even list at this point. Its all been said over and over again.

If you play support and you know, actually get +healing as a stat, that 10 sec well of blood heals for 7k over 10 secs, on top of the regen from staff 2/focus 4 also get affected by it. WEll that converts conditions on allies into boons and boons on enemies into conditions or blinds or that stacks up 10 vulnerability and the fact that any combination of the 3 wells that aren’t heals give 15 secs of dark combo field and the 10 sec heal one is a light combo field and you have yourself an amazing support, also, level 80 in horrible gear not even statted properly to support or tank, i was tanking 5 of the undead on the final airship in the level 80 instance. 20 sec blind from plague form with a practically doubled hp pool and added 2k toughness is amazing as well.

A lot of really good feedback. I think it is important to point out that everyone has their own builds and plays their own thing and thus would want to change it this way or that. Clearly if you were power there could be a better shift and if you were condition there could be a better shift. This is about balance not min/max.

One thing I would like to address that was said is hemo and scepter condition duration not stacking. This is simply not true and BEFORE you respond I challenge you to reset your traits go hit something watch your 4 second bleed. Add hemo watch your 5 second bleed and add the 30 point and watch your 7 second bleed. The only point I am trying to make here is just because it was a said in a super well formatted post (that I read too) by someone who seemed to know what they were talking about, it is in fact total bs.

hemophilia and lingering curse stack, easy to see on golem, isnt a bug is work perfectly like cayden already say

possante.8310:

hemophilia and lingering curse stack, easy to see on golem, isnt a bug is work perfectly like cayden already say

It does stack, the bug isn the tooltip doesn’t properly state the duration from them stacking.

Tooltips only include the highest bonus.

I would consider that a bug on the necro then, considering my thiefs bonus showed, and went up more when i used 2 +10 bleed duration sigils on weapons.

Sjach Darasv.3729:

I would consider that a bug on the necro then, considering my thiefs bonus showed, and went up more when i used 2 +10 bleed duration sigils on weapons.

Maybe a bug simply on the tooltip but it isn’t bugged as far as the bleed duration.

Doubt this would happen, precision and power in one line could end up too strong and no other professions have this. Usually precision has critical damage attached to it but in the case of the necro crit damage is in the Soul Reaping trait line. Perhaps cond damage should be in the power line or the Soul Reaping trait line, I don’t know the Necros traits are a mess.

Actually conditon damage with precision makes absolutely no sense since conditions don’t crit :|

Zogyark.4597:

Actually conditon damage with precision makes absolutely no sense since conditions don’t crit :|

God why..
Guys !
Precision and condition damage make perfect sense,use the 60% rune of adding a bleed on the critical,you have your trait for extra bleed on critical, get a 50% chance to crit with precision and BOOM
3 stacks of bleed on auto attack ……
Not only that, corrupt boon on a guardian and BOOM, 10 conditions and 25 stacks of bleed, one feast of corruption kitty BOOM again.

We gotta learn a lot about this proffesion..A lot more..

They are hashes.4523:

Quick way to fix the necro:

• Make Spite tree give Power and Precision.
• Make Curses tree give Condition Damage and Condition Duration.

I love your idea, you should use formatting options to make it clear like this.

+1

+1

/15 chars length

I would imagine crit chance and condition damage is on the same line because of the trait and sigil that causes bleed when you crit. It is also a combination that half of the classes use.

Condition duration being in the same line as power is the same as every class. Most likely to help power builds stack Vuln for longer and to increase the effectiveness of immob, chill and cripple to keep enemies in range of your damage.

Good read Levetty, what would be the point to increase your 3 sec bleed by X percent..?Adding it maximum half a sec to it’s durations.While adding a 20% duration to 5 seconds of immobilize gives you an extra second ..

@ natsos – This is why all condition builds focus on crit chance for it, but this also breaks synergy with other builds for example say you want to try a high crit/damage build you really can’t because besides spending on precision if you want to increase crit damage you have to put pts into death shroud which is mostly use as a defensive ability because of the way it works. And on this you have to spend traits on power to increase damage, and all these don’t synergize very well, you end up with low dps, low health and toughness. SO you look at the build and think… I’ll just go condition again.

And yes this is also how I use my condition build because I’m pretty much forced to use it that way oh and trust me I use it well. But if I want to play differently I switch to another proffession because conditions is the most viable option here. Crit chance was not meant for high damage like other professions it was meant to try and get more bleeds…

No sir, I don’t like it. Half of the professions have these two stats together on a trait line, Anet is not going to change it. This isn’t the problem anyway, the problem is bad traits and bad baseline damage on weapons (axe, staff 1, can’t comment on dagger).

I think that they are split that way because most of the time Bleeding is the only Condition for Necro where the Condition Damage really matters a lot.

Poison stacks in duration and it’s better for weakening heals.
Burning doesn’t really happen for Necro aside from Epidemic or some silly Runes or such.
Curses is basically for Bleeds, Epidemic and the traits.

Axe, Focus and Dagger don’t really get much from Curses, but they all get better with high Spite.

I think that the Signet of Spite is a good example.
It has “Spite” in it’s name, gives Power and can inflict 6 Conditions.
All 6 are affected by Condition Duration, but only two are affected by Condition Damage.

Cayden.4587:

Make Spite Give Power and Precision and make Curses give Condition Damage and Condition Duration.

This will not happen, pretty much ever (no offense).

Each tree for every class has a primary stat and a secondary stat:

Primary:

• Power
• Precision
• Toughness
• Vitality
• Mechanic Stat – for Necro, it’s Hunger (Life force pool)

Secondary:

• Malice (Condition Damage)
• Expertise (Condition Damage)
• Concentration (Boon Duration)
• Compassion (Healing Power)
• Prowess (Critical Damage)

Each tree has one of each; making it where a single tree had two primary stats would make it easily outshine the rest of the trees.

nah bro, it would depend on the build you were going for.

For ex: if you were going for an all-out condition dmg build you would still really want the malice/expertise.

If, however, you are going for just a burst dps or aoe dps build then you would go for the power/precision tree.

contrary people think, have 50% criti chance dont do much for a condition build Necro, go test on golem how many bleeds you get from crits, is ridiculuous low and you have it or not you dont notice that.

one thing everyone can easy agree, spite line dont make any sense with passive condition duration, put it somewhere else where traits are really usefull for a condition necro build .

see the DM boon duration?? change that for spite line and put condition duration on DM line. jesus spite line is the one benefict more with increase boon duration , retaliation and might, that are boons very good for power builds.

and give a amulet for people who test build and dont care at all for compassion or insane critic chance because is what we have if we want to do a condition build with shaman amulet (compassion…why i want that????) and rabid (50%critic chance….no i dont need that) so give me a amulet with 7xx condition damage + 5xx toughness + 5xx vitality. ask on HM map if anyone want a amulet like this for your necro and be surprise how many want it, because you know we dont beneficty almost nothing from compassion (some guys say we do…please test it) and have a insane 50% critic chance on weapon that dont do almost no direct damage plus slow atack rate is a waste.

exist the soldier amulet for power build make the same for a condition build, just remove power and put condition damage. otherthing why exist a rune of melandru that decrease 25% condition duration and dont exist the same to counter that with 6 runes increase 25% condition duration? why i need to use a mix of 2 runes that just increase only bleed for 30% and dont do nothing for other condition?

and please make some minor tarits usefull, almost all are really useless. dont just say we need master Death Shroud because DS have nothing to do with above problems