Feedback on current tPvP Minion build
Well of Suffering huh? I guess you drop that on an enemy trying to revive someone and watch as the downed player’s health drops faster than he can refill it? And then when they’ve both got a bunch of vulnerability stacked you putrid explosion to finish them off? That’s a neat trick, pretty evil! :p
I’ve been running minions too for the past month, it’s a lot of fun for muckabout games! I went for a more standard Shadow, Wurm, Fiend for my utilities though. I don’t really get on with the little Bone Minions, I could never get them to explode where I want them to, so I dropped them for Shadow fiend. I also couldn’t get on with Blood Fiend, its active heal is just sad and it dies far too easily, so I went Consume, like you.
My traits setup looks like yours except I picked Bloodthirst and Vampiric Master for my utilities. I suspect it’s subpar but I like the idea of life stealing. While the minions are alive I’m pretty durable with all the life they steal and all the regeneration I can give myself, but they die pretty easily so those traits aren’t really doing anything for me for a large proportion of the time. I’ve never used Ritual of Life in pvp (use it in wvw all the time), but it sounds like a nice idea, and it will help heal the minions too. I wonder if it works with Signet of Undeath btw?
Basically it sounds like your build is much more team oriented than mine. I assume you’re playing with a fixed team and gravitate towards group fights, whereas mine is geared more to 1v1s so I spend most of my time bunkering points. I was going to see I don’t see how you can survive without a stunbreaker like Flesh Wurm, but clearly if you mostly stick to group fights you’ll have friends to bail you out when you’re low, so I assume it’s not too much of a problem. It seems like a pretty original build though and I’d love to see how it plays if there’s a video of you on the internet somewhere!
A bad necromancer always blames the corpse.
I see what you’re trying to do with the build and wanted to share what I would change about it.
First, things I don’t agree with. (Don’t take it personally)
- A stunbreak is rather essential in tPvP, regardless of how good or bad it is. Luckily there’s one that synergizes great with your build!
- Well of Suffering, outside of dropping it on a downed body, is rather useless without using dagger #3 to immobilize inside of it. Players just move out of it. I understand that using Putrid Explosion on a Well is cool, but it isn’t good enough IMO.
- While healing is a great idea, I wish our regen would heal us in deathshroud. Dagger #2 is a big reason for healing and you don’t run it (which is okay). In my opinion, clerics amulet is the worst amulet for Necromancers at this time.
- Having minions recharge 20% is a good trait but for cohesiveness of the build I would rather choose something else. Also, once the minions go down, the build suffers a bit and quicker cooldowns won’t help that much.
- My favorite necromancer trait (Mark of Evasion) is awesome but the regen from Focus #4, Staff #2 and Full of Life should be good enough and more sustain can be achieved through another trait.
So keeping in mind all that you have, I did not want to change the build too much or giving a whole revamped version.
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAW3djMal6ta+a07JAJFPT90DvBnbIF5KNA-TsAA2CqIcS5kzJjTSnsLNCZBxOEA
The sustain with life siphon + regen + minion heals is the best it’s going to get in this build (along with almost 30k health). Also your personal damage is increased with crits. While 20% minion cooldown would help this build, I find that it isn’t good enough to take over anything else.
Valkyrie’s Amulet is also a good choice here if you want to use Mark of Evasion and Minion cooldown. You could take out Vampiric Precision. I just find Knight’s to have better synergy. Once pets die, you can still rely on your personal damage. Also vitality is always better as a defense for Necro in PvP than toughness, no matter how much anyone tries to convince you.
Don’t take my word as law, everything here is my opinion, and I like the way you’re building your Necromancer. If you have any questions or don’t agree with me, I’ll can gladly discuss it!
One last note: I have a minion master build that I would run if you’re ever interested. (Once they buff minions and make the melee ones attack 100% of the time, it will be better)
Thanks for sharing the build.
- Tenderly
Rank 50
@Tenderly – First, thanks for your opinion. I think the main difference is I was trying a very team-oriented healing focused build. I do have other builds that I have used for more personal sustain/damage (although I am totally going to start using Knight’s in my damage based build); but I wanted something that could do well in a team-fight situation.
I might try out Wurm, I haven’t been needing it currently, but I’m not against high ranking teams often. I much prefer the current setup, but I will see if the stun break really makes me feel better about the build (and it might be something I sub in when I queue with higher level players). I also will see how the DPS compares between it and WoS (loss of downed pressure is probably negligable with how hard Putrid explosion hits). Just a note for WoS though, Bone Fiend immobilize active is 9.6 seconds total in this build, which is more than long enough if they don’t cleanse it, or I save it to drop on downed players to make it very hard to get them up.
As for the healing/minion CD stuff. I do think there is the opportunity to change the trait and put those points somewhere else, it is just my personal preference to have it. It reduces the amount of time that you are weak by quite a bit, plus increases your effective damage from Bone Minions.
I think a bit of the differences in my build are just personal preferences. Also for Cleric’s, as I was going for a healing build, it was pretty much the only option :P I would have liked vitality, but questionably this build does better with toughness because I have very high healing (Consume Conditions can easily hit 10k per heal).
I will definitely pay attention to the Mark of Evasion though. I’ll see if I have perma regen without it (I think you are right that I will, or close enough) and swap it out for something else, so thanks for that tip.
And if you have a minion build I’m always interested. I almost exclusively run them, and I always like seeing new ones.
@man
Learn to use Bone Minions. They are absolutely incredible, because with many MM builds you can spam down 25 stacks of vulnerability and they will explode for over 3k damage each, and if you use either Death Nova or Chillblains, they will combo field for over 30 seconds of poison. During a fight a few days ago, I tagged a shatter mesmer with so much poison (I guess he didn’t have a cleanse) that after I had chased him off point, capped it, and was going mid, I could still see the little numbers as he went to his home point.
Vampiric is great. If you don’t have healing power, then those few traits (and then either 50% better siphon or siphon on crit, you can do the math to which is better), are really strong. I didn’t take them because regen is really strong with all my healing power; however with the note about me already probably having 100% regen uptime, I might swap it out. Also, WoB in my build makes rezzing one person a potential huge turn around in a fight, because it will heal my team for 7k in that area. And yes, I believe Ritual of Life works with Undeath.
Essentially yes, this is a team oriented build. I already had a 1v1 home point bunker build (this started as a variation of that) that I liked, but I started making team-oriented variations when I queued a few times with higher level players, where having a Necro back point isn’t too desirable.
Hey Bhawb, I’ll definitely give the little bone minions another try then! Might be what makes Death Nova worthwhile, as it’s not really working in my build (since my only finishers are the Flesh Wurm return skill and Staff 4), whereas you also have Putrid Explosin from the minions, and the blast finisher from your dodge (which btw is my favourite necro trait!)
A bad necromancer always blames the corpse.
Also, the Bone Minions self-combo with their own Death Nova for about 15 seconds of poison and some weakness.
Ya know, I really, really, REALLY wish that Blood Fiend had some extra utility to make it better for high-end TPvP. It depresses me when I see Minion Master builds not using this one. Not saying the builds aren’t good or anything, it’s just annoying how they’re better off without one of the main minions. Maybe if it had a small cleanse or did it’s normal heal when it was killed or something, ya know? It’s just… Ugh.
Anyways, really nice. You’ve put a lot of thought into this one. It’d be hard for me to take the WoB revive over the trait where Minions siphon health. I guess the revive would be better for a team though.
There are a number of things they could do with Blood Fiend to make him better for PvP, but it would be difficult. Any changes would basically need to make him “OP” on his own, to make up for the fact that it is very dangerous to have a heal with an HP bar.
Actually, if I find that Mark of Evasion isn’t meaningfully raising my regen uptime, Minions siphon health will be making its way back into the build. It was just that my regen was ticking for comparable HP/s, but with no reliance on minions.
I wouldnt go with well of suffering, I’d just add another minion. Also cleric does terrible damage imo even with a minion build. Once your minions are down all your dps is gone. And the only stuff that benefits from your heal is the Mark of bloods and your heals. The well of revival is such a long CD I don’t think its worth it either. kitten ICD and it only heals you for the initial and then people never stay inside for the 10s tics. I would just go minion siphons.
Yeah, I would never really take Well of Revival unless I was also running Signet of Undeath and Transfusion. At that point though it’d be hard to decide if you really wanted to be a support, or if you really wanted to be MM. Running both together is a great idea for a team, but for me there’s just too many hard decisions to make as far as traits go.
I wouldnt go with well of suffering, I’d just add another minion. Also cleric does terrible damage imo even with a minion build. Once your minions are down all your dps is gone. And the only stuff that benefits from your heal is the Mark of bloods and your heals. The well of revival is such a long CD I don’t think its worth it either. kitten ICD and it only heals you for the initial and then people never stay inside for the 10s tics. I would just go minion siphons.
Well of Suffering does 651 per tick, so long as I am using Focus with it, which means 4.5k damage. Add in Flesh Golem hitting for over 1k DPS, and each of the other minions plus pretty decent damage from abilities (remember how much vuln adds) and it turns out nice. WoS also causes AoE Blinds with Bone Minions, and Bone Fiend siphons 402 HP (also means 402 damage added on) because of the combo field. Anyone else on my team will also be able to proc those effects. It will also keep up Vulnerability, which ofc benefits my minions. The only thing to see is how I feel about those effects, vs what I could get from Flesh Wurm (the only minion worth using in that third slot).
Well of Revival is the same ICD as the skill it comes from. Its just a personal thing I guess, I really like it when you have high healing power like I do. Also, yes my regen and two heals are the only things that scale, but that is 260 HP/s regen, and Consume Conditions can pretty easily heal me for 10k, along with the 13k possible heal from WoB. Necromancers and healing power isn’t a matter of quantity, but quality.
But anyway, I think a lot of what I have is just personal preference. There is a lot I’m sure others could change to be more comfortable with the build, and I will definitely look into some of these things to see if I really like where the build is now.
I’d personally go with something like this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAW4YjQal6Va+a07JAJFPH9kisHHSxtSD-TIAgzCmA
Don’t really think that using any of the minions outside of bone, wurm and golem is worth it. If you go clerics with healing then why not take well of blood and solve the condition problem with weapon skills?
You can probably go with axe/focus and take mark of evasion and spiteful talisman with the blood magic trait that makes minions draw conditions as well.
I had used a WoB build before, I just got destroyed by conditions when I used it. I will need to try it out with the minions draw conditions though.
And if you have a minion build I’m always interested. I almost exclusively run them, and I always like seeing new ones.
This is the sPvP build I run with minions for fun. With an extra emphasis on minions and pets ha
Take note of the runes and sigils.
While not tournament viable, it’s a blast to a play!
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQRBHbhG2IhWrepmvG9eCQSR0UP9gbwDHSRuSD-TwAA2CnIQShkDJDSyes9MkYJxGhJBA
I had used a WoB build before, I just got destroyed by conditions when I used it. I will need to try it out with the minions draw conditions though.
I tried the minions draw conditions thing, it’s terrible. Even if you have 5 minions, 1 conditions/10" isn’t reliable considering how quickly they die and how long the recasts are.
Oh there’s one neat trick you can do to help with your condition cleansing though: change your armour to Runes of Lyssa! the #6 rune cleanses all your conditions and gives you every boon in the game for 5". With the Minion Master trait you can use the golem charge every 40", fastest-recharging elite in the game! And yes, it works both on the summon and on the charge. I know Precision isn’t as useful as the bonuses Vampire gives you but the stats you get off armour aren’t really significant anyway, the 2,4,6 bonuses are always the main point.
A bad necromancer always blames the corpse.
You should use flesh wurm with well of blood to cleanse condies as well. Imagine how awesome ti would be if you place well of blood on top of the wurm and stand in the way of the wurms projectiles that would cleanse you. Or if you have the wurm in a distance, you place well of blood and catch its projectiles while fighting.
I’ve tried, Flesh Wurm + Bone Fiend would give 3 clears every 3-4 seconds, which would be pretty nice, but its unreliable.
Not sure about the Blood Magic trait skills. I would choose Ritual Mastery and Vampiric Master to get the most out of WoS while Bone Minions are supposed to die in a putrid green cloud. If you can skip the well, use Flesh Wurm for its damage and the port. Remember to combo it off Chillblains, if you can get your opponent into position.
Also, with the Vampiric Runes, I have never been impressed with the amount of health stolen. If you use Vampiric Rituals, you should get more than the runes give. With so much toughness, I’d choose runes of Dwayna or something from the vitality group like Ice, Lich, Sanctuary, and so on.
The runes are there to synergize with the on switch sigils. It gives me 4 sources of 975 siphon (flat heal and true damage), and honestly I just haven’t been that impressed with what other rune sets give for this build in comparison. However with the new patch upcoming I’ll be at least examining this build again, so I will be going over all the suggestions everyone has been nice enough to give me then. I’ll edit the original post as well.
Thanks for all the input everyone, it helps out a lot.
Seems like it would work good, looks like a personal build that fits whatever team your playing with.
BUT, I have played a lot of Tpnp with MM, and I can not go with out RUNES of svan + Flesh Worm.(soilders amulet)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNBIhZakRrVvUzXjePBI94Zqjeqw3QP2VanB-TsAA1CtIgSBlDKDUSosQNAZByECA
With this build you can dish and soak up amazing damage, And when your about to die(when you hit 25% health) the invuln kicks in and you can port to safety(while invul) with Flesh worm. You can reset fights fast!
tell me what you think, working great in 40-50r tournies
That is a very interesting idea. I probably wouldn’t use it in this specific build, but I will keep that in mind for any chill-inclusive builds I make in the future for sure.
I like the build, I don’t know how it ends up playing, but I could definitely see it working with high chill uptime (chill really synergizes well, keeping your minions stuck on the enemy) and high personal and minion damage. If only CtD worked with Putrid Explosion… ::sigh::
(edited by Bhawb.7408)
lose the pet cooldown reduction
pick up transfusion
That is a very interesting idea. I probably wouldn’t use it in this specific build, but I will keep that in mind for any chill-inclusive builds I make in the future for sure.
I like the build, I don’t know how it ends up playing, but I could definitely see it working with high chill uptime (chill really synergizes well, keeping your minions stuck on the enemy) and high personal and minion damage. If only CtD worked with Putrid Explosion… ::sigh::
O how I wish Ctd worked with minions. But i still find it a valuable trait to take since MM have to go 20 into spite anyways.
As a MM you will notice you will have a hard time taking down some bunkers. With no crit/crit dmg the 20% dmg with dagger auto helps a lot.
also, I wish i could use focus, It really is better in fights then warhorn. But that on demand swiftness….getting from point a to b is so important in conquest.
Do you play a close point guard/mid with your build?
Btw i will have to try your build out. Have not tried a cleric type build with MM, seems fun.
(edited by Login.5102)
This current build is a mid “bunker” (I use that loosely since I can’t stay on point on my own, I need at least another bunker to swap with). I have a version that I use as home point guard as well, but it is a bit different (no staff). And yeah, I would use CtD if I felt it worked well, I just don’t like sacrificing the healing it gives up in this build.
I basically sit on whatever point all the time, so moving isn’t a huge issue, and I much prefer what focus allows (you can melt bunkers with 25 vuln + boon stripping).