Guild Wars 2

Ok so I’m kinda new, been on for a few months and playing my necro for about one, so apologies if this has been brought up already. I play a female sylvari and have been enjoying making her look very necromantic and having some good fun on the class. I was really interested to get to 30 and unlock Lich Form, it sounded really cool. Unfortunately, I was let down when I first transformed into a large masculine reaper, kinda took me out of the immersion. I like the look don’t get me wrong, just not on a female character. I think I would be fine with it if the ability was labeled Avatar of Grenth perhaps, or the model was more of a skeletal figure draped in wragged cloth, or of course when my female character used the ability she transformed into a female lich. Just how I feel about it, am I the only one?

I always assumed that we simply took on the look of a specific lich, or that was how all liches looked (are there female liches?). It never bothered me, even though all my characters are female.

Well traditionally liches are powerful sorcerers or sorceresses that transform themselves so that they have an immortal form, usually that of a cadaverous figure or a skeleton. So honestly taking the form of a giant muscle bound figure is kind of off in the first place. So if we stick to that model, which again I don’t hate, the lich should take the form of the spellcaster. It’s a cosmetic issue really, but aesthetics are a big thing to my enjoyment of games sometimes.

Understandable, I just wonder if its a guildwars lore specific thing, or if it was just a shortcut design choice on their part, since they’d need up to 10 different models if they went that route.

This was my greatest wish before the release Thanks for reminding!

Ha! I never noticed this until you pointed it out. With all the other tiny details the Devs put into the game, I’m surprised that they over looked a female form of the lich.

1. Liches are technically asexual, kinda like your sylvari, despite what the basic looks indicate so no its actually good attention to detail from em.

2. Only complaint i can have about it is why we dont have skins for it *like Baelfire skin for charr or raven skin for Norn or mech/golem skin for Asura, using the reaper look is kinda… meh if you are on a non human (since the lich skin was kinda first titled as “reaper of grenth” and he shares it with the reaper of the ice wastes who we summon during the personal story).

Calling a lich male would be as wrong as calling it female :P so this thread could also be named ‘Male Lich Form’ and pose the exact same question for males.

Traditionally a lich is just a magic user that used it’s power to become a greater and more powerful form of undead. If magic users can be male or female, so can liches.

Andele.1306:

1. Liches are technically asexual, kinda like your sylvari, despite what the basic looks indicate so no its actually good attention to detail from em.

Tobbygnome.6793:

Calling a lich male would be as wrong as calling it female :P so this thread could also be named ‘Male Lich Form’ and pose the exact same question for males.

Do you refer to anyone who is dead as neither male nor female? No you do not, nobody does, your gender is by all means retained as a part of your identity after your death. An undead is male or female just as it was when it was alive, and the current lich form is blatantly and obviously male even when used by a female caster, which makes no sense and is a huge lore trip up not to mention cosmetic let-down.

If u want :P
Fifteen Charr’s walk into a pub

Conncept.7638:

Do you refer to anyone who is dead as neither male nor female? No you do not, nobody does, your gender is by all means retained as a part of your identity after your death. An undead is male or female just as it was when it was alive, and the current lich form is blatantly and obviously male even when used by a female caster, which makes no sense and is a huge lore trip up not to mention cosmetic let-down.

Depends on how much of your muscles are still in a state of decomposition, someone is male/female based on their working reproductive organs, so no dead is dead, undead is still dead but just moving/with a form of sentience from a source other than the brain and until a lich suddenly appears with "watermellons" or a "rooster" they are just as asexual as sylvari.
The fact that it rehashes norn male wireframe and bones has nothing to do with what it represents (or are gargoyles suddenly just rock dogs and gryphons, the elementals grubs and are aatxe and flesh golems suddenly bulls *ok the real worlds meaning of aatxe is a bull but thats beside the point, they are shadow demons/spirits for Tyria*).

Men have breasts too. Some more than others. We could say the dangly bits fell off and call it even.

Actually,

I don’t think even man should have THIS Lich Form (It’s looks awesome, but Lich with muscles and six-pack? Seriosly?)

I personally think we look like Dhuum.

Well, lore wise there are most certainly female liches, in fact iirc every lich we encountered in GW1 had a different appearance ( although not necessarily a unique appearance). There was also the lich costume from GW1 which of course had a distinct female appearance http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Raiment_of_the_Lich

That said, the Lich form skill is a bit fuzzy lore-wise, it seems more like we’re channeling the power of a lich than actually becoming a lich, or something. Regardless though to my knowledge no other transformation skills have alternate appearances based on gender or race.

All the other transformations are pretty gender neutral (Tornadoes don’t have genders afaik) or actually affect your own character model (Rampage). Lich is the unique one that makes you look specifically like a male entity.

It is possible though, as Riot said, that we are taking the appearance of something specific, and as such it doesn’t matter what gender or race we are, we all take the same appearance. I have a feeling though really this whole debate is just pulling stuff from our kitten to give ANet an excuse :P I’m not actually sure they put this much thought into it.

I agree with Bhawb!! We need Female Tornadoes!! Too long has my girlfriend been disgusted by the lack of a female tornado models, it’s about time Anet gave us one, and also the name for the skill on females should be changed to ‘Hurricane Katrina’.

pff Anet and their excuses!

Riot Inducer.8964:

Well, lore wise there are most certainly female liches, in fact iirc every lich we encountered in GW1 had a different appearance ( although not necessarily a unique appearance). There was also the lich costume from GW1 which of course had a distinct female appearance http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Raiment_of_the_Lich

That said, the Lich form skill is a bit fuzzy lore-wise, it seems more like we’re channeling the power of a lich than actually becoming a lich, or something. Regardless though to my knowledge no other transformation skills have alternate appearances based on gender or race.

Just add to the wiki link Undead_Lich, Palawa_Joko, Fendi_Nin and i think that Zoldark counts…
Either way same as D&D liches, both Palawa and Khilbron (and to a minor extent Mazdak the Accursed) all note that they left they physical bodies behind and live by extending their soul somewhere while consuming other souls for more power (kinda how we kill Khil and reversely rise Palawa to power with all the death going on). So no if a necro hits 30, spends points on Lich form, he is technically undead, maybe not in a typical sense since you wont be able to decay anymore, but death aint such a thing till your soul gets shattered by a bloodstone/something similar.

It would be cool to have a female Lich form.

+1, keep it topless ._.

Bawi.9541:

+1, keep it topless ._.

I like the way you think.

Andele.1306:

Conncept.7638:

Do you refer to anyone who is dead as neither male nor female? No you do not, nobody does, your gender is by all means retained as a part of your identity after your death. An undead is male or female just as it was when it was alive, and the current lich form is blatantly and obviously male even when used by a female caster, which makes no sense and is a huge lore trip up not to mention cosmetic let-down.

Depends on how much of your muscles are still in a state of decomposition, someone is male/female based on their working reproductive organs, so no dead is dead, undead is still dead but just moving/with a form of sentience from a source other than the brain and until a lich suddenly appears with “watermellons” or a “rooster” they are just as asexual as sylvari.
The fact that it rehashes norn male wireframe and bones has nothing to do with what it represents (or are gargoyles suddenly just rock dogs and gryphons, the elementals grubs and are aatxe and flesh golems suddenly bulls ok the real worlds meaning of aatxe is a bull but thats beside the point, they are shadow demons/spirits for Tyria).

Your great-great-great-great-great grandfather is likely decomposed to nothing but bones by now, when talking about him you would claim that five generations back your family was sired by gender-less ‘it’ or would you call your grandfather a he?

Your claim is ridiculous, if he is male in life then he is still male in death as he identified in life, or undeath as the case may be. Putting aside identity, DNA can be drawn from well decomposed flesh or bone and identified as coming from a male or female. Without DNA bone structure and musculature alone can accurately identify the majority of people as male or female. If the female form appears male in every sense (which it does), it’s because of a lack of time or resources for making a female version, not an obscure pat on the back for your views on gender dichotomy.

And check your lore, or 5th grade biology, sylvari aren’t asexual, neither are any photosythesizing plants. All plants are male, female, or both male and female, there are no plants which are neither.

Conncept.7638:

Your great-great-great-great-great grandfather is likely decomposed to nothing but bones by now, when talking about him you would claim that five generations back you were born to a gender-less thing rather than just calling your grandfather a he?

Your claim is ridiculous, if he is male in life then he is still male in death as he identified in life, or undeath as the case may be. Putting aside identity, DNA can be drawn from well decomposed flesh or bone and identified as coming from a male or female. Without DNA bone structure and musculature alone can accurately identify the majority of people as male or female. If the female form appears male in every sense (which it does), it’s because of a lack of time or resources for making a female version, not an obscure pat on the back for your views on gender dichotomy.

And check your lore, or 5th grade biology, sylvari aren’t asexual, neither are any photosythesizing plants. All plants are male, female, or both male and female, there are no plants which are neither.

Actually a body of 7 generations prior to me is probably dust so yes its a it.
Also you dont have a gender in death because its the end of your existence, you dont suddenly continue to live on also if you dont know, every being has the potential to be male or female since prime multi-cell organisms and lower forms of life to even some types of reptiles are hermaphrodites with both genders fully functional (and some even able to reproduce with themsef/clone/do a very crippled version of mitosis). Also sylvari aint technically flowers (what you mean), they are beings using eukaryotic cells instead of variation of animal cells (thus they are from greenish to redish colors being defined by their chloroplast) they are all born from parts of the pale tree which is using a type of vegetative reproduction used by the same kittening potatoes you probably eat when going to McDonalds (or they could be using a advanced version of spore reproduction as used by alge, but thats kinda stretching it since they are a bit too complex for it/it would take way longer for a sylvari to be created than 25 years), so yes there are asexual plants, as a matter of fact most of the ones in existence are asexual, the fact that you may have never looked at most veggies, flora in the sea or jungle is not a sign that plants require being male or female.
DONT YOU DARE TRY TEACH ME ON BASIC BIOLOGY! (that by the way, probably even a first grader would know if he read it or looked it up on the net)

Andele.1306:

Rant

The end of a persons life being the end of their existence is your non-factual opinion of the real world, and completely inapplicable seeing as in GW2 lore the mists are not believed to be but factually proven to be the place where the spirits of the dead go, ipso facto, death is not the end. You summon a spirit during one of your personal stories, you refer to the spirit as female, the summoner refers to the spirit as female, the spirit refers to itself as female. It is female, sexual dichotomy continues after death according to lore.

Secondly,
Asexual: Without sex or sexuality.

Asexual is defined as having no gender at all. Having two genders is not asexuality, which is how all such plants are identified, being unable to reproduce is not being asexual. Asexual reproductions is merely means reproducing in the closed system of a single organism, regardless of whether or not the organism has one, two, or no gender. Something can reproduce asexually without being an asexual organism, and vice versa.

Every single Sylvari identifies as male or female, has male or female sexual organs according to the developers, and persumably DNA tests would show them to be male or female. And they do not reproduce one way or the other, only the pale tree does who is not a Sylvari herself, therefore they are not asexual by any definition.

And frankly, I don’t even need to know you in order to know you do not refer to any dead person as an ‘it’, you’re reaching, and arguing for the sake of protecting your intellectual pride rather than because you actually believe your own argument. Just let it go.

The mods are reading this and laughing their heads off

Tobbygnome.6793:

The mods are reading this and laughing their heads off

I know I am

Conncept.7638:

The end of a persons life being the end of their existence is your non-factual opinion of the real world, and completely inapplicable seeing as in GW2 lore the mists are not believed to be but factually proven to be the place where the spirits of the dead go, ipso facto, death is not the end. You summon a spirit during one of your personal stories, you refer to the spirit as female, the summoner refers to the spirit as female, the spirit refers to itself as female. It is female, sexual dichotomy continues after death according to lore.

Secondly,
Asexual: Without sex or sexuality.

Asexual is defined as having no gender at all. Having two genders is not asexuality, which is how all such plants are identified, being unable to reproduce is not being asexual. Asexual reproductions is merely means reproducing in the closed system of a single organism, regardless of whether or not the organism has one, two, or no gender. Something can reproduce asexually without being an asexual organism, and vice versa.

Every single Sylvari identifies as male or female, has male or female sexual organs according to the developers, and persumably DNA tests would show them to be male or female. And they do not reproduce one way or the other, only the pale tree does who is not a Sylvari herself, therefore they are not asexual by any definition.

And frankly, I don’t even need to know you in order to know you do not refer to any dead person as an ‘it’, you’re reaching, and arguing for the sake of protecting your intellectual pride rather than because you actually believe your own argument. Just let it go.

a) give me empirical proof of a dead person living on, till then death is the end, fact.
b) mists are only for heroic spirits or tragic deaths, all of the leftover life force that isnt tied to the world is pulled into the giant annoying riven in the UW, its the equivalent of having electricity and trying to make it go trough a wire if you put rubber on it
c) Asexual is the lack of sexual organs or demophism withing a species, which funny enough is over half the plants on earth and some types of worms; TL DR spores, buds, division and vegitative spread, in forms which may include variations of the other forms ARE ASEXUAL REPRODUCTION OF ASEXUAL BEINGS. Please show me where a human can reproduce asexually or a plant that doesnt wall under flowering plants (the only form of flora that can even be described as having a sex because the reproductive process is similar in concept to animal reproduction, thus why we also call such cells sperm and eggs in gametophyte reproduction despite them being nothing like animal sperm and eggs, but a more advanced version of cell fusion, P.S. dont you dare bring the feminist argument of the chromosome type and/or count because we by now know that even single cell bacteria have the foundation to evolve them without the need for gender as a side effect of nutrition types).
ALSO NO, ALL SYLVARI DONT HAVE A SEX, they cant ever reproduce in any other way because they are all the same as EVERY FRIGGN DEV BLOG ABOUT IT SHOWS (here the two most obvious examples of plain stating, no they are sexless/genderless by book definition: http://www.talktyria.net/2011/08/11/sylvari-lore-interview-with-ree-soesbee-kristen-perry/ and http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sylvari).
Reason why you got male and female on the slection screen is: a) A boob slider would be a very disturbing thing for GW2 b) You cannot market sentient plants… you cannot actually market anything that is generic and humanoid without “looking sexy”
c) For kitten and giggles to annoy the real lore fans by having to hit the rest of the players (e.g. you) over the head with the same articles about the sylvari over and over till you understand that they are just a bunch of plant cells.

Also no a corpse is a corpse, if you talk about a personality that a once living being once had yes i wont say it because we arent talking about the remaining dirt in the earth, but if you want to tell me that a decayed corpse that can float around and summon other remains via stygian powers from the underworld has a kitten gender, fine, but ill hold to what isnt in la la land of flying invisible fairies and elephants on turtles,etc that hold the earth in its place in the universe.