Flesh Golem AI
I lack any programming knowledge so I don’t know if this would help, but I feel like in general, all the minions run off the same AI code. The problems you listed aren’t just for the flesh golem but all of them. They may or may not have different codes (different skills/uses?) but yes, it is a problem.
The work around I found when it’s not attacking something I want it to is to use it’s charge ability. That way after it charges it’ll attack whatever you’re attacking. I personally try to have Charge on constant cooldown anyway. If the mob is on the ground not moving, then it’s not attacking me.
I lack any programming knowledge so I don’t know if this would help, but I feel like in general, all the minions run off the same AI code. The problems you listed aren’t just for the flesh golem but all of them. They may or may not have different codes (different skills/uses?) but yes, it is a problem.
The flesh golem most certainly does not share its AI with other minions. The other minions will only ever attack if you attack or out of self defense, they will never seek out targets of their own accord like the Flesh Golem does. The only behavior the golem seems to share with other minions is the bug that causes them to go idle while you fight things, which is even more incomprehensible with the golem who under every other circumstance rushes off to fight anything and everything that so much as looks at it.
Minions do not have any AI, you can’t call the behavior they have “Artificial intelligence”, since standing afk when necro is getting pummeled, or running in place is not the most intelligent thing to do.
Create a mesmer, and check how the clones and phantasms attack – now thats an AI.
Clones and phantasms have a much simpler AI as they’re bound to one target and they vanish when the target dies. They don’t need a protocol for target selection and they don’t need a protocol for ending combat. It’s like saying a calculator is a good computer… it is, but because it has a very simple purpose.
Flesh Golem AI, and minion AI in general, seems to place a high priority on targets that have been hit by a minion’s active skill. Strangely, they seem to place no priority on the fact that you or any of them are being attacked. I did a test two days ago with my shadow fiend where I allowed it to sit in aggro range of a group of enemies. I ran far enough away that only one enemy followed me and I killed it. The shadow fiend, however, sat idle until it died. On the next group I used the minion’s “Haunt” skill on a target. The shadow fiend attacked that target and stayed on that target until it died.
I won’t deny that the Flesh Golem sometimes decides to attack an enemy for no apparent reason. Usually it’s an object-type opponent and it’s always something within a relatively close range to me, but definitely longer than the aggro range of hostile NPCs. I’m inclined to believe that reports of it running off to the other side of the map and drawing a large group of enemies back to the player are exaggerated or entirely false. Especially because when the golem does this it sticks to its target until that target is dead. Something that might explain stories of the golem running off across a long distance is that it may be returning to a target it already locked onto after respawning from being too far away. In any case, there does appear to be a bug specifically in the Flesh Golem’s AI that causes it to select targets that aren’t currently in combat with the player.
My untested hypothesis is that minions have a combat mode and a noncombat mode similar to players. I believe that the minions are supposed to enter and exit combat mode when the player does. There appears to currently be a bug with that process though, as evidenced with minions sitting idle. I think those minions simply are not triggering into combat mode and therefore are not selecting a target. Active skills likely trigger combat mode, and it seems that my minions always enter combat if I initiate the battle myself – as opposed to if I get attacked by an NPC. A stranger bug that may be related to this is that MM Necromancers very rarely get stuck in combat mode. They run at combat speed, their health doesn’t regenerate, they keep their weapon out, and they cannot map travel. This situation is only resolved, in my experience, by logging the character out and logging back in. I’ve never had that happen on any other character, and it has only happened to my Necro while using minions.
Off topic, but what Baldur’s Gate mods did you work on? I love that game and have played through with various mods, including some AI mods. I’m curious if I may have played with your mods installed.
Mesmer’s minion AI is far superior. Why?
1. It works
2. The buggers are like heatseeking missiles
3. They even spawn near you despite the mesner is e.g. far below you (and that alone would make their whole minion mechanic superior to any MM spec. The pathfinding is soooo hilariously bad that it isn’t funny anymore)
Mesmer’s minion AI is far superior. Why?
1. It works
2. The buggers are like heatseeking missiles
3. They even spawn near you despite the mesner is e.g. far below you (and that alone would make their whole minion mechanic superior to any MM spec. The pathfinding is soooo hilariously bad that it isn’t funny anymore)
As has already been stated that AI is functioning more correctly because it is so much simpler to implement. They are locked onto one target and disappear when that target dies. That’s perfectly fine for illusions like the Mesmer has, but would be terribly unsatisfying for the Necromancer minions.
The AI is bugged, but it’s workable. If you can’t play a MM effectively right now then you are lazy and unwilling to learn the workarounds. I’m not saying it doesn’t need fixed, just to be clear. I’m just saying that I’m playing an MM and having fun while minimizing the effects of the bugs.
Off topic, but what Baldur’s Gate mods did you work on? I love that game and have played through with various mods, including some AI mods. I’m curious if I may have played with your mods installed.
I did some fixes, new classes, items and areas. I will not mention specific mods though as it will make it quite easy to tie them to my RL identity (back then I did not think internet privacy would be an issue for me later on).
@Morivan:
Since sarcasm sometimes translates badly when it is written I will be plain and simple:
1. I know they are simpler AIs, however, if your coders don’t have the skill to make complex ones, then make the necro minions similar and change the whole mechanic
2. They work, therefore they are better .)
“The AI is bugged, but it’s workable. If you can’t play a MM effectively right now then you are lazy and unwilling to learn the workarounds. I’m not saying it doesn’t need fixed, just to be clear. I’m just saying that I’m playing an MM and having fun while minimizing the effects of the bugs.”
Honestly, save yourself ad homines like “you are lazy”. There are enough circumstances were the minions simply don’t work like…
1. Sometimes the Flesh golem just watches while you get beat up, not attacking. Pressing “charge” does sometimes solve the problem…sometimes
2. Pets attack anything but what they should and take ages to get back to the target they should attack…that is if they change to your target
3. Pathing: a wonderful way to take a minion master out of the fight is to jump over obstacles etc. A very good example for hilarious pet pathing is for example in the Battle for Khylo (spelling?). If you jump into the room from a window, the pets walk back down the wooden stairs, go to the main entrance and walk all the way up again. That’s like 20+ sec without minions.
Yeah, of course you can work around that like…not entering via the windows or never take shortcuts so that you never get seperated from your minions but….that’s hardly anyone’s idea of fun. It is just cumbersome and a burden.
Well, the quote button disappeared for me again. I don’t know what forum system this is, but I don’t like it.
Anyway, I’ll grant that minions are a much bigger liability in PvP right now. I don’t really play PvP, so I tend to forget that it exists. But what I said holds true in PvE.
I won’t deny that the Flesh Golem sometimes decides to attack an enemy for no apparent reason. Usually it’s an object-type opponent and it’s always something within a relatively close range to me, but definitely longer than the aggro range of hostile NPCs. I’m inclined to believe that reports of it running off to the other side of the map and drawing a large group of enemies back to the player are exaggerated or entirely false. Especially because when the golem does this it sticks to its target until that target is dead. Something that might explain stories of the golem running off across a long distance is that it may be returning to a target it already locked onto after respawning from being too far away. In any case, there does appear to be a bug specifically in the Flesh Golem’s AI that causes it to select targets that aren’t currently in combat with the player.
I actually did some testing with the flesh golem a little while back. I picked a location where enemies were spread out fairly far apart in an open field, I would walk towards one enemy until the golem would move to attack it. Every time the golem aggroed an enemy it aggroed before the enemy at a distance of about 900 or so range units. The really alarming thing I discovered is that occasionally the golem would switch targets just before engaging it’s first target thus aggroing several enemies. So I don’t think the stories of golems multi-aggroing are exaggerated at all.
The flesh golem’s AI is terribly bugged. If I have a mob in FRONT of me and I attack it, the golem runs and attacks another one that wasn’t even in the aggro zone. Sometimes, I kill several cretures, and the golems just stands there looking. “Nice kill, dude. I could’ve help you, but he doctor said I have a sprain and I have to rest”
its ok guys they will fix us. they promised >.<
The pathing thing gets me too. Sometimes in sPvP I’ll be defending a point: eg. Beach, or Graveyard and a ranger will just sit up on a rock spamming their bow at me. It takes the minions AGES to walk all the way around, so I’m stuck in a dps war with staff vs bow. (bow does waaaay more dps). When the minions finally do get in range, my enemy will just jump down to continue the fight, causing my minions to spend another 30 seconds getting back.
I mean, this is just good tactics on their part. They know it’s a weakness of the AI and are exploiting it. I think that’s fair, but I have some suggestions for making the minions work better:
1) Bone Fiend should prefer to stay close to you and fire at range if possible rather than running all the way around to attack. It may already do this, but I haven’t done any conclusive tests.
2) Shadow Fiend’s active ‘Haunt’ should be a direct teleport that crosses gaps. It’s incredibly annoying to be standing at the top of a wall in WvW, commanding SF to haunt an enemy at the bottom, then watching as it uses the skill but goes nowhere.
3) Perhaps give minions swiftness/speed boost/teleport if the pathing algorithm detects that it will take them a ridiculously long time to get to their destination.
It’s just frustrating. Sometimes it feels like my opponents are playing in three dimensions and I’m playing in two.
All the necros pets suck. Gave up on them a long time ago. Died to many times with them watching me die.
What is with the flesh golem attacking thing you are not attacking?
(edited by HogWash.3928)
I have found the work-around for minions follow these steps
1: Change all utility slots that currently have minions to wells/corruption/spectral
2. if 1 does not cut it re roll mesmer or pokemon ranger
3. If 1 / 2 does not cut it go to Lions Arch- practice dummies and have fun controlling your minions on the dummies because that is as good as it gets for necro minion control
All the necros pets suck. Gave up on them a long time ago. Died to many times with them watching me die.
What is with the flesh golem attacking thing you are not attacking?
lol although i agree with how bad the ai system of minions are for necro, it’s not your minions fault your dieing. it’s your own lack of skills. pets was just meant for support not to keep you alive. they don’t heal you except one which is garbage. i’m a mm necro and i own people in spvp and in wvw. you should really learn how to play your class more if your dieing so much because of your minions lol. MINIONS ARE FOR SUPPORT, NOT FOR HEALING YOU.
As far as I can tell the attack priority is:
inanimate objects
enemies out of aggro radius
enemies who were hit by the charge ability
invisible enemies who can only be defeated by not moving
enemies I’m currently attacking
I’m not trying to blame the pets for me dying. My comment is about them standing there and doing noting, but watch me die. Also I’m attacking a mob in front of me and the flesh golem runs off and attacks a weapon rack.
I’m not trying to blame the pets for me dying. My comment is about them standing there and doing noting, but watch me die. Also I’m attacking a mob in front of me and the flesh golem runs off and attacks a weapon rack.
all im saying is even if the ai system for minions is kittened up atm, usually i can hold my own. also that is the reason why i save my skill attacks to unbugg em. it doesn’t always work but it gets the job done in both pvp and pve. i’m sure they will fix the ai system for necros, but for now i think they are more busy trying to fix the endless bugged skills we have for our profession. tbh i really have no idea why out of all the profession in gw2 ours has the most. i mean have you seen the bugg reports on necromancer, and it just keeps racking up. anyways still love my minion necro though and will never stop playing it.