Guild Wars 2

nekretaal.6485:

I prefer that spinal shivers be a useful chill generator and boon ripper. I don’t care for the damage. Reapers touch has damage.

Anet shoul keep the boon rips and chill, & lose the bonus damage and lower the cast time to .25

If “they are being conservative with the skill because it hits like axe skills,” then nuke the skill entirely. It has no business bein in the game if they are going to treat the skill like that.

I can agree with you apart from a 0.25 casttime. Even if the damage is removed, chill+ boon removel on a 0.25 second casttime is really strong. I dont think the casttime should go below 0.5. Otherwise it will simply become a superior version of corrupt boon.

A single target skill that does almost no damage doesn’t need a long cast time.

At 0.25 cast time, & no bonus damage (a 66% nerf), it’s competitive with pre-buff reaper shouts in its power level.

That’s not OP.

Chill isn’t a particularly strong condition (thieves 100% ignore it) but it does provide a form of non damage pressure. With a quick-ish cast and a shorter cooldown, spinal shivers could be something that Reapers toss around to force enemies to react and go on the defensive.

Right now, for cast, cooldown, and non-cleaving reasons it is an unuseable skill.

Edit:

I am not overlooking the fact that if you change spinal shivers from a damage tool into a control tool, then non zerker builds, such as condition builds can use the weapon.

Chill isn’t a particularly strong condition

This isnt true.

nekretaal.6485:

The skill is still single target in a game where nearly every other skill cleaves or is AoE. It ought to be really strong. .75 cast is still too long. This weapon is up against Warhorn!

Also the cooldown needs to be looked at. Right now the cooldown is too long for use as a reliable boon ripper or chill generator.

The lost damage isn’t negligible. That’s 66% damage removed.

And Chill of Death is a cheesy proc effect that nerfs the damage potential of every other necromancer damage skill (and was also responsible for the necromancer downed state nerf). I will trade good spinal shivers for chill of death in a heartbeat.

focus 4 is a multi-target skill, so it’s not like focus is lacking there. However I do agree spinal shivers needs something for sure.

traited it’s just under a 30% chill uptime, that’s excluding things like if you’re running the reaper trait line or using other factors to amplify duration. That’s nothing to scoff at (i wouldn’t complain about a cooldown reduction though, like 15 seconds base instead of 20 seconds).

I say negligible in that the skill still does it’s primary function. There was a long time where it didn’t ever have this scaling damage based on boon removal.

So would I, I never cared for the chill of death trait but always use focus, so it holding back the focus is a pain. I’d honestly like to see the spiteful talisman trait get that functionality instead of 5% bonus damage to foes with no boons, or just see chill of death replaced entirely.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

They can reduce the cast time of Spinal Shivers and Chill of Death would be completely unaffected.

I was talking the other way around, people complain about chill of death because of it’s lack of a cast time, spinal shivers would be subject to the same thing if it got a short cast time.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Blast finishers are probably more for Unholy Feast. Definitely not Spinal Shivers.

Chill of Death is strong, while Spinal Shivers is bad. The only real difference is cast time. It also means that they do have something they can tune to improve Spinal Shivers without buffing Chill of Death.

Which is exactly why reducing the cast of Spinal would be good. Adding a blast finisher would make it a bit OP I feel. And Chill of death is a very strong instant, passive process and would make adding a blast finisher to it very unreliable.

Remember this thread is about Focus, not scepter or traits.

Bhawb.7408:

Tman.6349:

And that is why I agree with the 100% proj finisher sentiment for Reaper’s Touch. And even went so far as to argue that it (adding 100% proj finisher would be as good/equal to reducing the CD by 15+%). Surely you aren’t advocating adding a blast finisher to Spinal Shivers? That would make one hell of an OP, ‘must have’ skill (not to mention traited CoD O.O).

Bawb, are you in the right thread? I think the 100% proj finisher idea has already been driven home…

The quote chain that put me on that directly said there was no need for a finisher because we can’t use it.

Why wouldn’t we be able to use it though.

*Also I was just being silly in my ‘question’ in previous post. I respect you and meant no offense.

Because we don’t have good enough fields, or so they asserted.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

striker.3704:

robertul.3679:

People keep saying projectile finisher this, blast finisher that but it’s extremely irrelevant since necro doesn’t have proper fields to benefit from it.

No, dark field life steal is not good enough. Neither is 3 seconds of weakness.

Necromancer has quite a lot of access to fields. In fact, every single utility category provides a type of field (except for minions if you don’t have death nova). Even then, GS has a dark field built into it, and reaper will give a lot of access to a chill field with RS 5.

Signets have a field? Shouts have a field?

Focus is a power weapon so blasting poison is not what would make these two finishers useful. Power Necros general have wells. Blasting a a dark field gives aoe blind. Useful in team fights. The projectile finisher would leech health (and I still insist that the regen should be changed to Fury on Reaper’s Touch.) Both of this finishers might also encourage going ahead and taking Well of Blood which is a Light field and pretty decent for team support with the Wells trait. Also projectile finisher in light field would give an extra condi remove without having to swap to staff and when other clears are on CD. And blasting that light field provides aoe Light Aura (retaliation:scales with power;could even be good for MM builds:minions with retaliation is pretty nice). I HARDLY think they would be useless. This would be a great/incorrect buff to power builds and most of all, finally challenge warhorn as the unquestionably best option for power builds. Also, the traits for it are already in the power line, while dagger and warhorn traits are why over on BM. O.o

Bhawb.7408:

Because we don’t have good enough fields, or so they asserted.

We have fields that could be useful for some of our builds. As I tried to give some good synergies above. Also condi MM could make use of the with Nova fields. Not much into MM though.

I’m mostly interested in the use of focus in power Necro builds since we’re talking a bout a power offhand.

And power could use some small buffs at the moment.

Blast on spinal shivers apparently doesn’t fit the theme, but what if you just made spinal shivers aoe? Change the animation to something like churning earth, it can keep the current cast time, but goes up to a 15 target cap 900 radius blast. Now that would be a skill 5 worth having.

Linnael.1069:

Blast on spinal shivers apparently doesn’t fit the theme, but what if you just made spinal shivers aoe? Change the animation to something like churning earth, it can keep the current cast time, but goes up to a 15 target cap 900 radius blast. Now that would be a skill 5 worth having.

Spinal Shivers is much better designed as a single target honestly. It is meant to be used similar to Corrupt Boon, when the target has 3+ boons (hence the pretty mediocre effect without boons), and that really wants more single target so that you can see the person being effected. Having it be 5 target would just make it another skill you used on CD without much care, since someone will probably have enough boons to be worthwhile.

Would prefer they make it strong single target above anything else.

Bhawb.7408:

Linnael.1069:

Blast on spinal shivers apparently doesn’t fit the theme, but what if you just made spinal shivers aoe? Change the animation to something like churning earth, it can keep the current cast time, but goes up to a 15 target cap 900 radius blast. Now that would be a skill 5 worth having.

Spinal Shivers is much better designed as a single target honestly. It is meant to be used similar to Corrupt Boon, when the target has 3+ boons (hence the pretty mediocre effect without boons), and that really wants more single target so that you can see the person being effected. Having it be 5 target would just make it another skill you used on CD without much care, since someone will probably have enough boons to be worthwhile.

Would prefer they make it strong single target above anything else.

I’d argue that turning it into a second and a half channel ala churning earth would actually discourage spamming it on cooldown. You have to think pretty hard before you invest in big casts like that, otherwise you just get blown up sitting still or blinded. It would be a way to respond to AoE boonsharing from shout guards/eles blasting, while it wouldn’t be worth taking yourself out of the fight to hit the one guy that incidentally has alot of boons.

Focus 5
I’d like to see this skill normalized a bit with a much shorter cast time so we can combo it for a larger burst.
.25-.5 cast time
.5-.75 power scaling
Focus 4
with focus 5 being able to support the burst, #4 wouldnt need to do so much damage.
first i would make it unblockable and decrease the damage a little.
then make it apply weakness to enemies protection to allies.
lastly it is unreliable on targets near max range and I believe it doesnt bounce max range. better tracking would be nice

Against a single target I really like the little chaining scythe attack the focus brings. I used to like it with the axe, but I haven’t used the axe in awhile because some encounters really want you to have that 1200 range the staff has. It’s a shame because I like the concept of the axe, even if the axe animations are pretty wonky these days.

Linnael.1069:

Blast on spinal shivers apparently doesn’t fit the theme, but what if you just made spinal shivers aoe? Change the animation to something like churning earth, it can keep the current cast time, but goes up to a 15 target cap 900 radius blast. Now that would be a skill 5 worth having.

I also would like to see AoE chill on focus.
Axe on Ranger delivers an AoE chill when you get the trait. Necro focus could do the same IMO.

Churning earth is probably the worst skill to base buffs to another skill around, most good eles barely use it all. If they do it’s probably to bait a dodge and not to actually use the skill. Long cast times that don’t generate pulsing or unavoidable effects in pvp are just not good with how many interrupts are floating around.

Aoe chill on focus is probably unnecessary. It is supposed to be a damage burst type weapon. We already debilitate our enemies really well. Adding on more vuln, weakness, chill, and cripple won’t really help. The things necros need to be able to spec into better at this point are support, burst damage, some reliable disengage/mobility and general usability in pve. Again, these are things we need to be able to spec for at the cost of 1vs1 tankiness, sustain damage in pvp, debuffing and boon strip which is what necros do well.

zapv.8051:

Churning earth is probably the worst skill to base buffs to another skill around, most good eles barely use it all. If they do it’s probably to bait a dodge and not to actually use the skill. Long cast times that don’t generate pulsing or unavoidable effects in pvp are just not good with how many interrupts are floating around.

Aoe chill on focus is probably unnecessary. It is supposed to be a damage burst type weapon. We already debilitate our enemies really well. Adding on more vuln, weakness, chill, and cripple won’t really help. The things necros need to be able to spec into better at this point are support, burst damage, some reliable disengage/mobility and general usability in pve. Again, these are things we need to be able to spec for at the cost of 1vs1 tankiness, sustain damage in pvp, debuffing and boon strip which is what necros do well.

Most of churning earth’s problems come from the fact that it’s an elementalist skill. Given that necro’s defense tools are all built around sitting there and soaking as best as possible, we’re probably actually the best possible class to put such a skill on. Combined with the fact that my suggestion carries only about half the channel time of the actual ele skill I think you’d find the skill much stronger than you give it credit for. The entire cast fits easily within the length of a terror-boosted doom or a dark pact.

I fundamentally disagree with your assessment that the necromancer should get those other options at the cost of what we are good at. Just for example, I’d much rather see a game where necro has the powerful tools necessary to prevent a thief from disengaging, than I would see one where the necro gets disengage tools like a thief.

imo only comparing reapers touch to mirror blade isnt really fair. lets look at the worst of the 3 bounce skills guardians focus #4 ray of judgement. imo mirror blade also needs an extra bounce while were at buffing bouncing skills. the obvious elephant in the room before buffing these kind of skills is weapon strength of 2 handed weapons vs. one handed and off handed which is stupid design and needs to go... but that has been discussed a lot

Guardian focus 4 blinds, which is better then vulnerability & because of the way bounces work can stop 2-3 attacks.

Traits also give guardian focus 4 direct healing, vulnerability, and Protection and the skill itself gives 3/5ths of a burning proc from virtues. Necromancer Focus has slightly longer regeneration (that it can’t even use in shroud) and about 10% more raw damage.

Meanwhile Necromancer focus 5 is unusable (too long cast time), but guardian focus 5 is one of the best blocks in the game (vital for securing stillness or channeling mist essence).

Focus #4 also instantly gives you 10 stacks of Corrupter’s Fervor if the hits land, giving you 300 toughness and reducing condition damage taken by 20%. If you go into Shroud immediately after casting with Death Perception, it also gains a 50% chance to crit every time it hits.

If you’re going to compare to Guardian’s focus for some reason, and you bring in Guardian traits, at least speak to the traits that Focus #4 interacts with as well.

Goldenrevolver.4371:

imo mirror blade also needs an extra bounce while were at buffing bouncing skills.

They gave mirror blade that bounce it was the most broken thing ever.

Mesmers were doing stealth → mirror blade → stun (while mirror blade projectile still in the air → 4 → 3 → F1. And that combo was killing players from full health with very little time to react against.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Focus #4 also instantly gives you 10 stacks of Corrupter’s Fervor if the hits land, giving you 300 toughness and reducing condition damage taken by 20%. If you go into Shroud immediately after casting with Death Perception, it also gains a 50% chance to crit every time it hits.

If you’re going to compare to Guardian’s focus for some reason, and you bring in Guardian traits, at least speak to the traits that Focus #4 interacts with as well.

Ok

Necromancer Focus has traits that give out a cooldown reduction and a damage increase against foes with no boons.

The damage increase is worthless because everybody craps out boons and focus 5 isn’t a working boon control tool. You have to build your whole build around boon removal, and forego better damage increase traits.

Vulnerability also works with decimate defenses for increased critical chance, but focus vulnerability is really short duration, you have about 3.5 seconds to hit the enemy after aftercast. I hope you are in range for a follow up attack.

Tman.6349:

Ruduce Spinal Shivers to a 1 sec cast. Make Reaper’s Touch a 100% proj finisher and change the regen to 5 secs of Fury on ally bounce. (Even the trait knows this is a power weapon. :/)

Yay. Focus is now fixed.

Read this Geesus please <3

Sinzaku.2980:

Tman.6349:

Ruduce Spinal Shivers to a 1 sec cast. Make Reaper’s Touch a 100% proj finisher and change the regen to 5 secs of Fury on ally bounce. (Even the trait knows this is a power weapon. :/)

Yay. Focus is now fixed.

Read this Geesus please <3

I think it should still provide a defensive buff to allies. Protection would be a lot better than regeneration (and still work in DS). Having it give retaliation instead would also give it a defensive and offensive option all in one.

striker.3704:

Sinzaku.2980:

Tman.6349:

Ruduce Spinal Shivers to a 1 sec cast. Make Reaper’s Touch a 100% proj finisher and change the regen to 5 secs of Fury on ally bounce. (Even the trait knows this is a power weapon. :/)

Yay. Focus is now fixed.

Read this Geesus please <3

I think it should still provide a defensive buff to allies. Protection would be a lot better than regeneration (and still work in DS). Having it give retaliation instead would also give it a defensive and offensive option all in one.

Uhhh no, the way they draw necromancer is all about self boost, fury is the thing we need the most :/