Guild Wars 2

The Gates Assassin.9827:

1. Blast Finishers – It’s not happening. It’s super not-necro like. There are other ways to be viable.

The thing that bugs me here is we already have some skills that fit blast finishers. Blast finishers don’t need to be explosions or anything like that, just a pulse of force propelled outwards in a circle/sphere (like axe #3 hint hint). We even have explosions on a couple traits (for example; Death Nova literally has explosion in the description) and there are ways to make explosions necro-like. I’m not saying we need immense access, just a reliable skill for it. But apart from that, I’m liking the new stuff. Shouts are a bit underwhelming but everything else looked great. Having an instant cooldown skill is crazy and I love it. Blighter’s Boon seems fairly weak but I’ll have to see that in practice to really get an idea of how good it is.

Spite line
Bitter Chill Adept III Chilling a foe inflicts vulnerability. 5 stacks for 8 secs
Death Shiver Master V Constantly apply vulnerability to nearby foes while in death shroud. 6 stacks for 10 seconds every 3 second while in DS
Close to Death GM VIII Increases 20% damage to enemies below the health threshold (50%).

Soul Reaping
Unyielding Blast Adept I Life Blast and Plague Blast pierce and cause vulnerability. 2 stacks for 10 seconds
Vital Persistence Master V Life force drains 50% slower while in death shroud. Death shroud skills recharge 15% faster
Death Perception GM VIII Increases 50% critical-hit chance while in death shroud.

Reaper
Chilling Nova
Decimate Defenses
Deathly Chill or Reaper’s Onslaught depending on whether Deathly Chill scales with power or condition damage

Synergies
1. Greatsword #1 3rd chain, Chilling Nova applies 5 stacks of vuln for 8 seconds
2. Reaper Shroud #4 combined with #5 can instantly stack 25 vuln I think depending on positioning

Utilities
H. Consume Conditions
1. Well of suffering
2. Well of corruption
3. Spectral Wall/Suffer ?
4. Icy shout elite

Necro new grenade engineer with godly vuln stacking?

i am bit afraid of the chill abilities necro got
i was experiment with perma chill build and melee classes really hate it
now give the necro GS and chill even when with fear which is great combination as they cant run away from you while you burst them

i think its too much chill abilities which can become perma chill even with no condi duration trait or buff. and even when it cleanse it will come back into you no time

now power necro can hold on point and do some great dmg as the meta in pvp in around zerk class. does it means we can see some changes around the meta for more sustain and bunkering ?

also vulnerability with 2 skills you can do 17 stacks which is huge for burst and with no condi cap along side shatter mesmer or ranger they can both reach 40 stacks which is 40% more dmg = instant death

i really like the reaper concept but it need to be tuned down a bit regarding pvp. in wvw it may works greatly for necro and also pve

messiah.1908:

i am bit afraid of the chill abilities necro got
i was experiment with perma chill build and melee classes really hate it
now give the necro GS and chill even when with fear which is great combination as they cant run away from you while you burst them

i think its too much chill abilities which can become perma chill even with no condi duration trait or buff. and even when it cleanse it will come back into you no time

now power necro can hold on point and do some great dmg as the meta in pvp in around zerk class. does it means we can see some changes around the meta for more sustain and bunkering ?

also vulnerability with 2 skills you can do 17 stacks which is huge for burst and with no condi cap along side shatter mesmer or ranger they can both reach 40 stacks which is 40% more dmg = instant death

i really like the reaper concept but it need to be tuned down a bit regarding pvp. in wvw it may works greatly for necro and also pve

And then you press one or two buttons on your bar and all that vuln and chill are gone. Even better, dodge the big slow skills and you won’t “suffer” at all.

Essentially Anet is afraid of a necro that *gasp has sustain.

going into reaper, soul reaping and death/blood magic, and abusing as much AOE as possible, get to as much chill as possible, to proc chilling force and blighters boon for loads of healing/LF generation.

And they’re right, it will be a lot of healing – if there’s lots of guys in melee range of you, instead of 1 ranger at 1500 range 211211’ing you to death.

zapv.8051:

messiah.1908:

i am bit afraid of the chill abilities necro got
i was experiment with perma chill build and melee classes really hate it
now give the necro GS and chill even when with fear which is great combination as they cant run away from you while you burst them

i think its too much chill abilities which can become perma chill even with no condi duration trait or buff. and even when it cleanse it will come back into you no time

now power necro can hold on point and do some great dmg as the meta in pvp in around zerk class. does it means we can see some changes around the meta for more sustain and bunkering ?

also vulnerability with 2 skills you can do 17 stacks which is huge for burst and with no condi cap along side shatter mesmer or ranger they can both reach 40 stacks which is 40% more dmg = instant death

i really like the reaper concept but it need to be tuned down a bit regarding pvp. in wvw it may works greatly for necro and also pve

And then you press one or two buttons on your bar and all that vuln and chill are gone. Even better, dodge the big slow skills and you won’t “suffer” at all.

and then it comes back to you 1 sec later leaving you with no cleanse. while necro stand on point and you cant

Bhawb.7408:

Greatsword skills: My only worry is if you can move and cast. I get the restriction on #4, but otherwise I really think we should be able to move and cast, especially #2 which is 1.25s. If we can move and cast though, perfect, again can’t complain in the slightest.

Well it was not clear but from what i heard it, seems you could move while using skills apart from nightfall, when you put your GS into the ground.

It goes into a nice direction and i feel they actually did listen.

Also i love that they dont shove us into the group support role like all other professions in the same way.

However im afraid the new blood magic ideas will limit our personal sustain at the cost of group sustain. Likewise traits like transfusion should always affect ourself as well. I dont say i dont wanna have support or heal for others, but it should always heal myself first. Healingpower would actually be meaningfull that way in every scenario.

messiah.1908:

and then it comes back to you 1 sec later leaving you with no cleanse. while necro stand on point and you cant

Only took three years to get to that point then anyway

Besides, what is the point of a melee oriented fighter if everyone is capable of running away without any issues? The whole point of this specialization is to make everyone think like “Dang, it is one of those, better avoid it”

New traits: Look good
New skills: Look good but there are somethings that can be worked on again:
Casting while moving,
different cover conditions,
projectile block on an AoE skill,
we get a bad leap, still no teleport/900range leap/invuln,
shouts are just bad due to bad utility and cast times but cant complain since everything else is good
Old traits and skills: the few changes were good albeit insufficient.
For instance spite line looks pretty bad except close to death.
Minion AI needs to be reworked.
Life blast currently has 1s cast and 0.5s aftercast (if you keep blasting with reapers might, you wont get past 10-11stacks of might while theoretically you would be stuck at 15 if in fact there was no aftercast) this needs to go.
Scepter and OH dagger skills need their delays reduced drastically, the skills arent even gamechanger, it makes no sense to have such a long cast, cooldown, aftercast, effect delay, telegraph o.O

I think the biggest factor is the missing defence. They cant move fast, or evade much, 15% defense isnt too useful in that case.

the chill does help, but other classes block more than that over time, actively.

flow.6043:

1. Your Soul is Mine!
The healing skill is way too weak.
The tooltip in the video said it heals for less than 4k hp and only the life force regen scales. Granted, its cd is 20 sec and it could be lowered with the shout trait, but even then 4k is just way too little if you can get a full cleanse and at least 5k with Consume Conditions.

I think it will all about keeping KS up as much as you can, also blood magic will help getting that health back up while in KS.

It looks exactly how they described it: run as fast as you can cos’ once it catches you up, you’re done for.

Emapudapus.1307:

I am just worried what can condi necro get out of new reaper ds form. And we loose 1 minor trait because of this.

Which one?

Cogbyrn.7283:

I’m not convinced that Consume is objectively better. If you get a 3k heal + 5k LF, the 5k LF would effectively be what, 10k direct damage absorbed? Conditions would supplement that so it wouldn’t be quite 13k total potential health, but I don’t think it is as bad as people are thinking. But again, it goes much better with a siphon build. If you aren’t siphoning, it’s much less useful.

First of all, please hand in your necro-card for making the “lf = second hp” argument. :P

Also, with natural degeneration you can never put an exact number on how much damage life force will actually mitigate. But more importantly, life force can be generated a lot more reliably than regular hp. No one would care if this shout didn’t generate any life force at all, at best it’s a nice bonus.

Secondly, how is this skill better with a siphon build? Currently there is no reason for any build to take a different heal than Consume Conditions.

arkealia.2713:

flow.6043:

1. Your Soul is Mine!
The healing skill is way too weak.
The tooltip in the video said it heals for less than 4k hp and only the life force regen scales. Granted, its cd is 20 sec and it could be lowered with the shout trait, but even then 4k is just way too little if you can get a full cleanse and at least 5k with Consume Conditions.

I think it will all about keeping KS up as much as you can, also blood magic will help getting that health back up while in KS.

It looks exactly how they described it: run as fast as you can cos’ once it catches you up, you’re done for.

How is this an argument for Your Soul is Mine? Even if you have some extra sustain with Blood Magic there’s no reason not to have Consume Conditions as well.

Again, Consume Conditions heals for a very poor amount but at least it gives a full cleanse and is immune to poison. If you want anyone to even consider a different healing skill instead then those other skills would have to heal for a lot more than Consume Conditions.
YSiM heals for a lot less while bringing almost no extra utility (extra life force, couldn’t care less..).

Not saying that “Your Soul is Mine” is any good but it will be our fastest heal, so it could have some charm…

Maybe a casttime reduction to 1/2 would do the skill good. Like not a strong heal but due the low casttime harder to interrupt.

Your soul is mine is actually great immo. Seeing as you can use it very sharpish compared to consume conditions. Not only that it will heal you for 3k and anywhere from 4 to 20% life force. That can be used to enter shroud and use the #4 skill with leech traits for a further 2-10k heal because it can hit a Max of 55 times.

Also I love the noon hate we have with the leap, path of corruption the shout and our existing skills such as axe #3 new spiteful spirit and corrupt boon.

flow.6043:

Emapudapus.1307:

I am just worried what can condi necro get out of new reaper ds form. And we loose 1 minor trait because of this.

Which one?

Instead of usefull minor we get a must new reaper ds even if its weaker version of current ds (for condi necros). Beside we get DS as baseline, no need for minor trait.
They sould let us choose between the two, than i wouldnt mind taking the minor slot.

Emapudapus.1307:

flow.6043:

Emapudapus.1307:

I am just worried what can condi necro get out of new reaper ds form. And we loose 1 minor trait because of this.

Which one?

Instead of usefull minor we get a must new reaper ds even if its weaker version of current ds (for condi necros).

How is it weaker?

Sigmoid.7082:

Emapudapus.1307:

flow.6043:

Emapudapus.1307:

I am just worried what can condi necro get out of new reaper ds form. And we loose 1 minor trait because of this.

Which one?

Instead of usefull minor we get a must new reaper ds even if its weaker version of current ds (for condi necros).

How is it weaker?

He means loss of torment…And forgets that you can stack Dhuumfire like a boss with the new AA. Als chill can do damage, and the Fear is AE. Also cold field and whirl, and with set-up poison field and whirl…and poison will stack…

Shiki.7148:

Sigmoid.7082:

Emapudapus.1307:

flow.6043:

Emapudapus.1307:

I am just worried what can condi necro get out of new reaper ds form. And we loose 1 minor trait because of this.

Which one?

Instead of usefull minor we get a must new reaper ds even if its weaker version of current ds (for condi necros).

How is it weaker?

He means loss of torment…And forgets that you can stack Dhuumfire like a boss with the new AA. Als chill can do damage, and the Fear is AE. Also cold field and whirl, and with set-up poison field and whirl…and poison will stack…

With condi damage burn does around 200 damage a stack ( seen from DH ready up ), poison does 68 damage a stack and chill doing 300ish over 50% and 600ish under ( seen when he is fighting the grawl ). Terror doing around 1k per tick since it will have best damage due to chill. Most of these are with no condi damage but with condi damage It will be a whole lot higher. This also doesnt count anything you corrupt from a boon every 6s due to skill #2.

Oh and none of this counts our insane ability to stack might for another 5~750 condi damage.

I think the ability for all the siphons combined with all the ridiculous damage modifiers (reductions and increases) is going to make us a mediguard on every type of steroid all at once.

Take chilling dark. Use nightfall or well of darkness. Stack stupid chill amounts due to pulsing blind. Possibly cover with vulnerability from of of the many source we have ( bitter chill every time blind procs chill, deathly shiver ). Enter RS, use #2 to corrupt boons and get poison. Spam 1 to stack burn.
????
Profit??

Sigmoid.7082:

Take chilling dark. Use nightfall or well of darkness. Stack stupid chill amounts due to pulsing blind. Possibly cover with vulnerability from of of the many source we have ( bitter chill every time blind procs chill, deathly shiver ). Enter RS, use #2 to corrupt boons and get poison. Spam 1 to stack burn.
????
Profit??

You forgot the new trait that gives us vulnerability on chill in Spite.

Brujeria.7536:

Sigmoid.7082:

Take chilling dark. Use nightfall or well of darkness. Stack stupid chill amounts due to pulsing blind. Possibly cover with vulnerability from of of the many source we have ( bitter chill every time blind procs chill, deathly shiver ). Enter RS, use #2 to corrupt boons and get poison. Spam 1 to stack burn.
????
Profit??

You forgot the new trait that gives us vulnerability on chill in Spite.

I didnt

I actually liked everything I saw with regard to the spec …. for PVE. For pve, it is going to be fun. For pvp, i think it will be very, very hard to do anything vs mesmers, thieves, rangers, etc. Basically, anyone gets range on us, we will be owned. Yes, we have a slight gap closer, and we have chill, but we will be so slow, that anyone with a few dodges and a clear is away in a heartbeat and at range, will hit us hard.

I honestly think they could give us some kind of reflect to deal with being outranged while we try to close. I see a power ranger just sitting there dodging backwards and eating us alive.

Gryph.8237:

I actually liked everything I saw with regard to the spec …. for PVE. For pve, it is going to be fun. For pvp, i think it will be very, very hard to do anything vs mesmers, thieves, rangers, etc. Basically, anyone gets range on us, we will be owned. Yes, we have a slight gap closer, and we have chill, but we will be so slow, that anyone with a few dodges and a clear is away in a heartbeat and at range, will hit us hard.

I honestly think they could give us some kind of reflect to deal with being outranged while we try to close. I see a power ranger just sitting there dodging backwards and eating us alive.

I think pvp will basically be the same as it is now, except you take gs as a pull, and reaper as a gap closer, and give up a ranged option. It would be nice in pvp if u could take gs without taking reaper, but oh well.

I am sceptical. In terms of pvp: which profession will reaper be actually good against?

Thief: will blind and melee burst, then kite indefinitely with SB. Rinse and repeat. Chill largely ineffective. This can only become worse when they get rifle.

Guardian: Burst you from range with LB, then blind+burst you in melee. Ample condi removal.

Mesmer: Slow is probably a death sentence against reaper if it cannot be cleansed quickly. With staff/blink/invis they will be able to kite well EVEN IF you get chill off. Shatter+cast phantasm all work from range. Minor in chronomancer reduces all chill duration.

Warrior: Shoutbow will laugh the chill off and proceed to kite.

Ranger: huge burst from range.

Ele+engi: against these two, reaper might actually be OK (with most necro builds being very good against engis anyway). HOWEVER, their specializations have not yet been revealed and will likely change things quite a lot.

As far as condi goes: picture a necro trying to hit a thief or a mesmer in melee in order to be able to apply burn…

I dont think necro is good now, or will be good after the patch, in 1v1 situations for the most part. I think in team fights, necros become deadly.

In a team fight, the aoe chill and group pulls will make sure targets cant back away for a breath of air. THATS where these builds will shine. Still going to be pretty bad solo.

Darwec.3784:

I dont think necro is good now, or will be good after the patch, in 1v1 situations for the most part. I think in team fights, necros become deadly.

In a team fight, the aoe chill and group pulls will make sure targets cant back away for a breath of air. THATS where these builds will shine. Still going to be pretty bad solo.

On the contrary people have been complaining that necro was good in 1v1 situations but didn’t scale when in 5+ groups such as spvp. I think necros got a huge advantage with shouts. Sure the shouts aren’t the best 1v1 but have other useful skills and utilities to manage that.

I already posted this in the dungeon forums. But i thought it might be useful for it be here aswell.

I worked out the damage coefficients of the skills by using the tooltips shown on the stream. You could work out his power by adjusting your ingame power to match the BiP tooltip damage shown on stream. Estimate of power he had was 1950. It was heart of the mists so i assumed exotic greatsword which means a weapon power of 1000. Heres the coefficients i got.

Greatsword

Dusk Strike – 0.861
Fading Twilight – 0.861
Chilling Scythe – 1.013

Gravedigger – 2.027

Death Spiral – 0.912

Nightfall – 0.731

Reaper’s Grasp – 1.013

Reaper’s Shroud

Life Rend – 0.608
Life Slash – 0.608
Life Reap – 1.216

Death’s Charge – 1.013

Soul Spiral – 2.787

Executioner’s Scythe – 1.520, 2.027, 2.533

Other Stuff

Shouts – 0.345

Elite Shout – 1.379

Chilling Nova – 0.137

So yeah the greatsword coefficients arent amazing. Neither are the Reaper shroud ones to be honest. Also take into account that necro has less damage modifier traits than other classes. These probably arent high enough especially as they are quite slow.

Chilling Scythe should be atleast 1.2 coefficient. Guard greatsword has a better auto attack than this currently. Its also faster and gets more modifiers through traits.

Check out the wiki to compare coefficients on other classes. And remember most of them have way more and way better damage modifier traits. So we need high coefficients as base just to be equal.

PS. I understand these might change. Just though it would be useful to give feedback on what sort of numbers we think we should get on a few skills. Some of them i think are fair. Some are a bit lackluster especially considering how slow and clunky many of them are.

CodeHavoc.7926:

Darwec.3784:

I dont think necro is good now, or will be good after the patch, in 1v1 situations for the most part. I think in team fights, necros become deadly.

In a team fight, the aoe chill and group pulls will make sure targets cant back away for a breath of air. THATS where these builds will shine. Still going to be pretty bad solo.

On the contrary people have been complaining that necro was good in 1v1 situations but didn’t scale when in 5+ groups such as spvp. I think necros got a huge advantage with shouts. Sure the shouts aren’t the best 1v1 but have other useful skills and utilities to manage that.

I have a much harder time 1v1 than I do in say a 2v2 with an AH guardian by my side. Yes, if we get focused we’re dead, but thats true of a lot of classes (kind of. not exactly). A properly positioned and used necro in a team fight can swing the battle (with lich, not with death shroud). If our new reapers shroud gives us similar abilities, and we can force players to remain engaged i combat, we might be better off. It has its uses, and it will certainly take some time to learn. Its going to be a highly melee oriented class, and with the recent power ranger changes, thats going to be rough. Its very clear that in sPvP power ranger is going to dominate, and necros wont stand a chance against them. The question is if we can stand a chance against thieves and guards and the like now.

I worked out the damage coefficients of the skills by using the tooltips shown on the stream. You could work out his power by adjusting your ingame power to match the BiP tooltip damage shown on stream. Estimate of power he had was 1950. It was heart of the mists so i assumed exotic greatsword which means a weapon power of 1000. Heres the coefficients i got.

to be clear, would the equivilant dagger coefficents be 0.9, 0.7, 1.2?

@ Spoj i lierally just did the same thing and came out with the same numbers pretty much except nightfall does 4 hits so its 2.8 pretty much. Seems dagger should still be the best 1v1 weapon for pve but RS and great sword would be good for trash and packs of stuff. Especially when one gets low since grave digger spam would be best dps then.

For pvp though grave digger will be huge if you can land it since you will be hitting people for between 4~6k or higher if they are below 20% and have vuln stacks. Especially you can stop people ressing since you can just repeat spam it on downed people. If you have Soul eater trait nightfall geave digger spam will make ressing almost impossible since GD makes it cool faster so you can keep placing it down.

Sigmoid.7082:

@ Spoj i lierally just did the same thing and came out with the same numbers pretty much except nightfall does 4 hits so its 2.8 pretty much. Seems dagger should still be the best 1v1 weapon for pve but RS and great sword would be good for trash and packs of stuff. Especially when one gets low since grave digger spam would be best dps then.

For pvp though grave digger will be huge if you can land it since you will be hitting people for between 4~6k or higher if they are below 20% and have vuln stacks. Especially you can stop people ressing since you can just repeat spam it on downed people. If you have Soul eater trait nightfall geave digger spam will make ressing almost impossible since GD makes it cool faster so you can keep placing it down.

Im hoping those numbers are wrong and wind up being better than dagger. Basically the two options are:

if dagger is better take http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgQBaAXkBnQ~ run zerker, play like you do now (drop in and out of DS)

if rs is better take http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgQBaAVsBnw~ take either zerker or valk, DS camp

so my question ends up being: if the numbers for the two are similar (Dagger and RS) will the 15% reduction in attack + dhuumfire be enough extra damage to make up the lost damage of the dagger. I THINK it might be. The reduced attack speed should bring the whole chain down to close the speed of dagger, with slightly less damage but more burning damage. Also, the RS build should keep higher vulnerability than the Dagger build, keeping our crit chance higher.

@Darwec.
Did some rough timing and the full auto chain is about 2.5s. If he wasnt using the trait it would drop to around the same as the dagger auto chain but have 0.4 less damage coeff. It should balance if the burn stacks are over 700~1k damage

If he is already using the trait and its 2.5 anyways then the whole chain is 2.9s which is very slow overall.

If I had to pass on any bit of information, it’s this.

Dear ANet,

Please do not screw up the build by adding loads of ICDs or changing the core ideas of the traits. Especially Blighter’s Boon and Chilling Force, because ICD or design changes will ruin a beautiful play option. Tune the healing portion before considering anything that might ruin it. The traits are all very well crafted and synergetic and they at least give us some sense of “bulk” so we can be that squishy fighter in the front lines in our own unique way. This is one of the bigger success stories OF Necro/Reaper so don’t let it slip!

I will offer some suggestions, though.
- Add “slow” to the list of boons reduced from Relentless Pursuit. (Not sure if duration modifiers would need to change slightly to adjust, but this is important to Reaper for pvp.)
- augury of death; maybe reduce the amount to knocks off to 6% per hit, some of the shouts need their own CD and mechanic adjustments. The trait beyond that even going to 35% as it is now is a bit boring, like other standard CD reduction traits. Add a cool effect to shouts from the trait.

- I can’t really complain about GS so far. It seems fairly nice. The added Dark Field and access to leap led me to realize how poor dark field leaps are… I’d say consider changing dark friend leap finishers to something a bit more interesting than a single target 3s blind.

- Reaper’s Shroud skills are all interesting and fun. I see the need for making rs2 a projectile block. It would certainly be cool… But I’m not sold, seems OP.

That’s my thoughts. Please don’t ruin the feel of Reaper, that’s all I ask.

~Sikari

Sigmoid.7082:

@Darwec.
Did some rough timing and the full auto chain is about 2.5s. If he wasnt using the trait it would drop to around the same as the dagger auto chain but have 0.4 less damage coeff. It should balance if the burn stacks are over 700~1k damage

If he is already using the trait and its 2.5 anyways then the whole chain is 2.9s which is very slow overall.

Right. So it’s one of those “we dont know yet, we have to see the actual release versions” things :\. Anywho, i think those are the two best power options though, both with and without RS actually being good. Coming up with a list of all the good-ish options is a good plan for me.

flow.6043:

Emapudapus.1307:

I am just worried what can condi necro get out of new reaper ds form. And we loose 1 minor trait because of this.

Which one?

Cogbyrn.7283:

I’m not convinced that Consume is objectively better. If you get a 3k heal + 5k LF, the 5k LF would effectively be what, 10k direct damage absorbed? Conditions would supplement that so it wouldn’t be quite 13k total potential health, but I don’t think it is as bad as people are thinking. But again, it goes much better with a siphon build. If you aren’t siphoning, it’s much less useful.

First of all, please hand in your necro-card for making the “lf = second hp” argument. :P

Also, with natural degeneration you can never put an exact number on how much damage life force will actually mitigate. But more importantly, life force can be generated a lot more reliably than regular hp. No one would care if this shout didn’t generate any life force at all, at best it’s a nice bonus.

Secondly, how is this skill better with a siphon build? Currently there is no reason for any build to take a different heal than Consume Conditions.

Probably because it hits enemies; you’d siphon health from each foe hit on top of the base healing.

It will also be the Necro heal skill with the shortest Cast time and ties Blood fiend on CD, which could be as low as 13 secs if you hit 5 targets with the shout trait.

I firmly believe that consume conditions is a highly over rated skill in pve, is only situationly useful in pvp, and probably only shines in wvw. the only reason so many people take consume in pvp is because there is no viable alternative. i do not understand at all why anyone takes consume conditions in pve.

Shouts seem to be pretty ordinary across the board.

The next aim should be to improve them considerably and remove the cast times – they should be instant cast – to my mind, they are worse than the Warrior and Guardian shouts and yet those appear to be instant. This does not compute.

Weapon skills and Deathshroud skills look pretty good – the Deathshroud dash skill could be improved (extended and/or sped up a little).

The “huge” damage that A-net claimed was the reason for our slow moving weapon swings really wansn’t evident in any of the video that I’ve seen.

In fact, If you compare the video footage of the Necro GS damage on target golems versus the Guardian Longbow DPS on target golumns, the Guardian is putting out much higher numbers – they are possibly/probably using different gear, but i still don’t buy these huge DPS numbers and if they do exist then I’m sure a nerf is around the corner without any subsequent adjustments in our favour (hellooo Dhummfire).

A-net are overselling the whole “chill” component – anyone who wants to get away from a Necro will still be able to using their teleport/mobility skills. Chill will probably just be another inconvenience.

Necro still lacks a good ranged damage weapon – It would have been great if this could be addressed.

Blood Magic changes are welcome, but they are only the tip of the iceberg when looking at our existing traits and utilities. I hope our existing profession is given some consideration before the release of the X-pac.

Still trying to figure out why Axe Training is being nerfed and why some of the other changes are going through – they have been brought up a hundred times by a hundred different people.

Only a few mobility skills arent effected by movement impairing conditions so making someone burn cooldowns on condi removal or escapes for something we apply just by doing every day things is a win.

Also in the guard video the guard has base hp meaning the ammy isued has damage stats, probably a new zerker ammy without vit since his crits are 200%. In ours he has 30k hp only meaning settlers ammy. The damage on our GS is higher than on their bow if it was the same amulet. We also self stack might easier so it all adds up

Still trying to figure out why Axe Training

I pray that this got the blood magic treatment and was reworked after our feedback.

spoj.9672:

snip

Great look at coefficients, they aren’t at all amazing considering how much they talked about high damage. If its super slow it should be dealing high damage on the abilities that aren’t heavy on utility.

The Wizland.8435:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

1. Blast Finishers – It’s not happening. It’s super not-necro like. There are other ways to be viable.

The thing that bugs me here is we already have some skills that fit blast finishers. Blast finishers don’t need to be explosions or anything like that, just a pulse of force propelled outwards in a circle/sphere (like axe #3 hint hint). We even have explosions on a couple traits (for example; Death Nova literally has explosion in the description) and there are ways to make explosions necro-like. I’m not saying we need immense access, just a reliable skill for it. But apart from that, I’m liking the new stuff. Shouts are a bit underwhelming but everything else looked great. Having an instant cooldown skill is crazy and I love it.

What bothers me most about this is we already HAVE some blast finishers. They just suck.

Bhawb.7408:

spoj.9672:

snip

Great look at coefficients, they aren’t at all amazing considering how much they talked about high damage. If its super slow it should be dealing high damage on the abilities that aren’t heavy on utility.

spoj.9672:

Can we get CPC to self apply cripple or chill instead of weakness. This way we use it to setup a short range deaths charge.

Death’s Charge ignores movement slowing.

Yeah i remembered that and deleted the post just as you quoted me. xD

I’m wondering how these effects will work with larger hitboxes in PvE.

Well they arent impact style AOE’s so there shouldnt be any damage difference on larger hitboxes. Which is unfortunate. And means staff ele will still outclass everything damage wise by a huge margin.

Ive always wanted an AOE skill called Shadow Storm. Which is basically a copy of frostbow Icestorm but inflicts blind/gives lifeforce on impact and is maybe a dark field.

flow.6043:

Emapudapus.1307:

I am just worried what can condi necro get out of new reaper ds form. And we loose 1 minor trait because of this.

Which one?

Cogbyrn.7283:

I’m not convinced that Consume is objectively better. If you get a 3k heal + 5k LF, the 5k LF would effectively be what, 10k direct damage absorbed? Conditions would supplement that so it wouldn’t be quite 13k total potential health, but I don’t think it is as bad as people are thinking. But again, it goes much better with a siphon build. If you aren’t siphoning, it’s much less useful.

First of all, please hand in your necro-card for making the “lf = second hp” argument. :P

Also, with natural degeneration you can never put an exact number on how much damage life force will actually mitigate. But more importantly, life force can be generated a lot more reliably than regular hp. No one would care if this shout didn’t generate any life force at all, at best it’s a nice bonus.

Secondly, how is this skill better with a siphon build? Currently there is no reason for any build to take a different heal than Consume Conditions.

Hey now, I was very careful to not specifically say it was a second life bar. If it was, it wouldn’t degrade, and we would be able to go in and out of it at any time with no cooldown or requirement. Don’t lump me in with those people

And yes, LF can be generated more reliably, but with a build that is attempting to stay in RS as much as possible, and siphon life back with every attack while in RS, wouldn’t some extra LF play into that build’s hand? I say it works for siphon builds solely because siphoning is going to work through shroud, based on the stream. The LF you are receiving does effectively mitigate more direct damage, though even if you just mitigate an additional 5k damage in the extra 5k LF you get, that’s still an 8 – 9k effective heal? As of right now, that’s the equivalent of a 4 – 5 condition CC.

I wouldn’t use the shout in a 1on1, but it isn’t designed to be used in a 1on1. The shout also has a shorter cooldown, and I believe a shorter cast time? Not sure on the second part.

I can just imagine a scenario where it might be useful. Most of the time I’ll still take CC from the looks of it, but I like that this heal exists.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Blast Finishers – It’s not happening. It’s super not-necro like. There are other ways to be viable

This is the problem with necromancer, we are a class design around exclusions.

We can’t have blast finishers (yet axe 3 screams blast, warhorn 5 seems fitting, etc)

We can’t be mobile or have decent escape options.

We can’t have block, evade, invulnerable, or vigor.

We apparently can’t have instant shouts. (Like every single current shout in the game)

No other class is build with so many limitations and the two other elites announced actually cover their base class’s limitations. (Mesmers lack of AoE damage (plus more unique support) and guardians lack of decent range damage and damaging utilities.)

This would have been the perfect time to have reapers shroud use life force as an energy (burned by the skills) not life. Then because we don’t have the two terrifying heathbars they could give GS and RP a block/evade/invulnerable. (As an example Fade could be our own little distortion – Reaper temporarily becomes incorporeal (evade) or something like the RS shadow armour skill’s concept but acting as a block.)

This new shroud would allow them to balance reaper like a normal melee and necromancer more like a caster. (Although I still think the base class deserves much more effort then has been given.)

spoj.9672:

I already posted this in the dungeon forums. But i thought it might be useful for it be here aswell.

I worked out the damage coefficients of the skills by using the tooltips shown on the stream. You could work out his power by adjusting your ingame power to match the BiP tooltip damage shown on stream. Estimate of power he had was 1950. It was heart of the mists so i assumed exotic greatsword which means a weapon power of 1000. Heres the coefficients i got.

Greatsword

Dusk Strike – 0.861
Fading Twilight – 0.861
Chilling Scythe – 1.013

Gravedigger – 2.027

Death Spiral – 0.912

Nightfall – 0.731

Reaper’s Grasp – 1.013

Reaper’s Shroud

Life Rend – 0.608
Life Slash – 0.608
Life Reap – 1.216

Death’s Charge – 1.013

Soul Spiral – 2.787

Executioner’s Scythe – 1.520, 2.027, 2.533

Other Stuff

Shouts – 0.345

Elite Shout – 1.379

Chilling Nova – 0.137

So yeah the greatsword coefficients arent amazing. Neither are the Reaper shroud ones to be honest. Also take into account that necro has less damage modifier traits than other classes. These probably arent high enough especially as they are quite slow.

Chilling Scythe should be atleast 1.2 coefficient. Guard greatsword has a better auto attack than this currently. Its also faster and gets more modifiers through traits.

Check out the wiki to compare coefficients on other classes. And remember most of them have way more and way better damage modifier traits. So we need high coefficients as base just to be equal.

PS. I understand these might change. Just though it would be useful to give feedback on what sort of numbers we think we should get on a few skills. Some of them i think are fair. Some are a bit lackluster especially considering how slow and clunky many of them are.

Sorry for being ignorant, but how does this compare to our current coefficients (dagger auto, life blast etc.)?

dagger is 0.9, 0.7, 1.2 and life blast is 1 over 600 range and 1.4 under 600 ranger

OlliX.1705:

spoj.9672:

I already posted this in the dungeon forums. But i thought it might be useful for it be here aswell.

I worked out the damage coefficients of the skills by using the tooltips shown on the stream. You could work out his power by adjusting your ingame power to match the BiP tooltip damage shown on stream. Estimate of power he had was 1950. It was heart of the mists so i assumed exotic greatsword which means a weapon power of 1000. Heres the coefficients i got.

Greatsword

Dusk Strike – 0.861
Fading Twilight – 0.861
Chilling Scythe – 1.013

Gravedigger – 2.027

Death Spiral – 0.912

Nightfall – 0.731

Reaper’s Grasp – 1.013

Reaper’s Shroud

Life Rend – 0.608
Life Slash – 0.608
Life Reap – 1.216

Death’s Charge – 1.013

Soul Spiral – 2.787

Executioner’s Scythe – 1.520, 2.027, 2.533

Other Stuff

Shouts – 0.345

Elite Shout – 1.379

Chilling Nova – 0.137

So yeah the greatsword coefficients arent amazing. Neither are the Reaper shroud ones to be honest. Also take into account that necro has less damage modifier traits than other classes. These probably arent high enough especially as they are quite slow.

Chilling Scythe should be atleast 1.2 coefficient. Guard greatsword has a better auto attack than this currently. Its also faster and gets more modifiers through traits.

Check out the wiki to compare coefficients on other classes. And remember most of them have way more and way better damage modifier traits. So we need high coefficients as base just to be equal.

PS. I understand these might change. Just though it would be useful to give feedback on what sort of numbers we think we should get on a few skills. Some of them i think are fair. Some are a bit lackluster especially considering how slow and clunky many of them are.

Sorry for being ignorant, but how does this compare to our current coefficients (dagger auto, life blast etc.)?

Dagger autoattack chain is 0.9*2 , 0.7, 1.2.