Guild Wars 2

Bhawb.7408:

spoj.9672:

…

This is rather awful for a number of reasons. Obviously it is a very significant nerf to PvP builds, it also kills the synergy that Death Shiver and Bitter Chill had, it removes the double-boon removal, kills Axe/DS builds, and there are multiple traits that just aren’t in the right tier. It is way worse than the current setup is.

Beat me to it. Also just adjust your traits depending on the group and your build.

As they stand they are good you just have to make meaningful choices as to what you want to so in the situation which I’d what they wanted traits to be hence the smaller number. Smaller choice but more meaningful and bigger impact.

Bhawb.7408:

spoj.9672:

…

This is rather awful for a number of reasons. Obviously it is a very significant nerf to PvP builds, it also kills the synergy that Death Shiver and Bitter Chill had, it removes the double-boon removal, kills Axe/DS builds, and there are multiple traits that just aren’t in the right tier. It is way worse than the current setup is.

I wouldn’t say Death Shiver and Bitter Chill have synnergy, but it would be weird to have two vulnerability traits and Signet Mastery competing for the same slot.
I can see why spoj wants more damage modifiers and have them line up with other PvE traits, but would freeing up Spiteful Talisman really make that much of a difference? Not that moving some traits around is a bad idea in general, but I perhaps they should instead look at the idea of reviving our current Target the Weak (with some extra features) for gm Curses.

flow.6043:

Bhawb.7408:

spoj.9672:

…

This is rather awful for a number of reasons. Obviously it is a very significant nerf to PvP builds, it also kills the synergy that Death Shiver and Bitter Chill had, it removes the double-boon removal, kills Axe/DS builds, and there are multiple traits that just aren’t in the right tier. It is way worse than the current setup is.

I wouldn’t say Death Shiver and Bitter Chill have synnergy, but it would be weird to have two vulnerability traits and Signet Mastery competing for the same slot.
I can see why spoj wants more damage modifiers and have them line up with other PvE traits, but would freeing up Spiteful Talisman really make that much of a difference? Not that moving some traits around is a bad idea in general, but I perhaps they should instead look at the idea of reviving our current Target the Weak (with some extra features) for gm Curses.

Are people not planning to take spiteful talisman in pve? Is bitter chill that good for pve? You can stack high enough vulnerability without that trait in PVE for the crit bonus.

Yeah for a second I mixed up Bitter Chill’s effects (it is chill→vuln not vuln→chill), but regardless they are traits you could want in the same build. I do think we could use some trait changes to make us better in PvE, and I think there is a very good discussion to have about our over-loading of vuln/might/crit chance access, which ends up creating a number of traits that effectively invalidate each other at the cost of other damage modifiers.

I admit my main purpose for the reshuffle was to allow the damage mod traits + bitter chill. But another reason is because bitter chill actually synergises with spiteful talisman and in turn chill of death. Spiteful talisman reduces the cooldown of spinal shivers. And that synergises nicely with both bitter chill and chill of death. Which is kind of why i suggested having them in 3 seperate tiers.

Also i dont think its a bad idea to have two different vuln traits in the same tier. Having both in seperate tiers is probably over kill on the vuln if you were to take both (they can be kept strong if they cannot be combined). And having them in the same tier means you make a choice of which is more suitable for your build. For example. If you are spending a lot of time in DS then you will take death shiver. However if you plan to apply a lot of chill or want to get that vuln whenever you burst with chill of death then you obviously want bitter chill instead.

Read every post so far guys! My report is basically done, but I’m going to hold on to it for now until when I go to bed tonight (So like 10-12 hours from now). If you have any last thoughts that should make it into the report, now’s the time!

Darwec.3784:

Are people not planning to take spiteful talisman in pve?

I’m sure some people will use GS + X/warhorn.

spoj.9672:

Also i dont think its a bad idea to have two different vuln traits in the same tier. Having both in seperate tiers is probably over kill on the vuln if you were to take both (they can be kept strong if they cannot be combined).

The opportunity costs for using 2 trait slots for vuln stacking are rather high though.
So the fact that you can combine them to stack faster or higher doesn’t mean that each trait shouldn’t be strong on its own.

spoj.9672:

And having them in the same tier means you make a choice of which is more suitable for your build. For example. If you are spending a lot of time in DS then you will take death shiver. However if you plan to apply a lot of chill or want to get that vuln whenever you burst with chill of death then you obviously want bitter chill instead.

This choice still remains if those traits aren’t in the same tier.
So imo this is more a question of which type of build should be able to pick which alternative if either of those builds feel they’d be overstacking with both vuln traits combined. Obviously there’s synnergy between Bitter Chill and Chill of Death, and for Shroud heavier builds you get to pick Death Shiver and Reaper’s Might.

Yeah exactly. The only trait that really suffers from the current setup is spiteful talisman. Because you cant get it to synergise with bitter chill. If we dont get it moved id atleast like to see it buffed to 10% damage. I kind of hope for that regardless though.

The thing is you can reshuffle quite a few traits in spite. Because the only trait that absolutely should stay in grandmaster is close to death. Signet mastery, spiteful spirit and axe training definitely arent strong enough to be forced into certain tiers currently. And the others can quite easily be shuffled a bit. Most of the traits in the spite line are pretty equal and they have a lot of synergy so it kind of makes it difficult to choose the perfect place for them to rest.

It was merely a suggestion based on a personal wish for one variation i would like to see possible. I dont really expect them to change it. As people have pointed out they quite like the current setup. Its only one minor issue which i can live with so im not too fussed either way. But it would be cool if they could come up with a solution which allows all synergistic variations. Which is why i thought it was worth bringing up and discussing.

The straits are somewhat going to be put in their lines so they have themes and synergy correct? same as how the elite specs have been? Spite almost fits this as it is.

1. Bitter chill > Chill of death > close to death they all fit
2. Spiteful talisman > axe training > spiteful spirit all for boon removal so they all fit
3. Reapers might > deathly shiver > signet mastery?? only signet mastery doesnt fit in here. since it does nothing for death shroud. If it allowed signets to persist through shroud would be useful.

flow.6043:

The opportunity costs for using 2 trait slots for vuln stacking are rather high though.

This. ANet seems to have gotten this idea that we were sad we weren’t good at being selfish so they were like “we’ll show you selfish, you can perma stack vuln/might while having 100% crit chance, and have traits left over!”. So now we have the ability to have 160% crit chance, 60 stacks of might, and 50 vuln, instead of making any one of those few traits into % damage modifiers, or something else more helpful. If we weren’t limited to so few traits it wouldn’t be bad because we could mix/match whatever was useful at the time, but now it can actually hurt us by meaning we don’t get other traits.

The more I think about it, I really don’t enjoy the GS cd reduction with gravedigger… It’d be great for PvE where it hardly matters anyways and in pvp (spvp) you will likely rarely get much benefit from it, where you’d need it most. Like, I’d love a way to reduce the CD on the pull, which is really the main thing that you’d want it for since most of the CDs are already short… But if you can’t hit high mobility targets that’s sort of moot. The idea behind his just seems off to me. Of course… I’ll probably just use chilling force anyways since it benefits all weapon types and RS. I think the GS trait needs looked at, maybe it’s just me (I haven’t gone through all of the replies).

I feel like at this point we all have a lot of suggestions, but we just really need an actual physical build to test with.

I think the biggest gripe so far has been the GS’s limited use cases depending on numbers? And that is the problem everything is so dependent on numbers. Just need something real.

I’m wondering what nerfs the report includes?…I’m still reading through the thread (so many replies) but my standpoint is that we should be more hesitant to suggest that X needs nerfing before we really get to see how X performs (play it for ourselves).

Sure, suggesting some nerfing to seemingly overpowered traits/skills/etc… might help with balancing, but until we really get our hands on the new content, I believe these nerf suggestions may be doing more harm than good (as they imply that something is unbalanced when it very well could be more balanced than it looks on paper).

Take, for instance, the common misconception many make that the Death Shroud mechanic (currently) is overpowered because it acts as a secondary health pool. On paper, this mechanic seems rather overpowered; however, once players were able to play the necromancer, they found out that the Death Shroud mechanic is not as reliable of a defense mechanic as they originally believed.

Edit: I’m not saying discussion is not welcome nor that we should all be sitting ducks while we wait; however, from what I’ve seen so far, there have been a great deal of posts in which players are already suggesting nerfs to the class (which to me is quite frightening).

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Read every post so far guys! My report is basically done, but I’m going to hold on to it for now until when I go to bed tonight (So like 10-12 hours from now). If you have any last thoughts that should make it into the report, now’s the time!

I just want to say in light of all the work you did, and Robert Gee even mentioning the community’s feedback on stream, you deserve a round of applaus and a cookie.
/hands-over-special-necro-cookie

There’s one more thing I had in mind for the feedback:

In regards to Reaper vs core necro:
The new Reaper’s Shroud really is a wonderful mix of all the things a necro could dream of. The ice field and finishers combined with the chill synnergy of the Reaper specialization, the faster attack rate, the scaling defense, the pulsing stability… it basically puts the regular Death Shroud to shame in almost every single way.
The advantages of DS: range, torment, immobilized. That’s pretty much it.

So the way I see it, the current versions of both Shrouds doesn’t really make core specs vs Reaper a fair choice. Instead people will think: which core can I afford to drop for Reaper? Or any approach to creating a new build will be: Reaper and which other two core specs?
I don’t know if it’s intended that the elite specialization overshadows the others by this much. But in this case it seems unintentional, because it’s not like the core spezializations will be worse by themselves but rather any combination of 3 core specs means you can’t have Reaper’s Shroud.

So, solution: Death Shroud should get something that makes it able to keep up with RS.
And my biggest concern here is not any possible synnergy with vamp traits or chill application, as has been discussed at length already.
But the real game changer for the Reaper will be Infusing Terror, that pusling stability.
3 sec stability, 1 pulse per second, 8 sec duration. It’s not just the general stability uptime you can have with this skill, but the biggest advantage here is having a safe stomp (and rez) on a relatively low cooldown.
This is absolutely huge for necros in PvP because up to now the inability to provide safe stomps in team fights (except when you sacrifice an elite or make some weird Wurm/SpecWalk juke combo) has been one of our biggest issues.

My suggestion: 3 stacks of stability for 3 seconds on Tainted Shackles.
I think with Infusing Terror we’re long past the “necro shouldn’t have too much stability” debate, especially if you can get Foot in the Grave in addition to that.
And Tainted Shackles is a long cooldown skill anyway. Plus, it would give some nice synnergy with the skill itself if the stability covered the time when torment is applied until the immobilized hits in the end.
Imo this would not be the biggest buff, but just enough to make pure core specs not feel bad about themselves for not picking the Reaper.

flow.6043:

In regards to Reaper vs core necro:
The new Reaper’s Shroud really is a wonderful mix of all the things a necro could dream of. The ice field and finishers combined with the chill synnergy of the Reaper specialization, the faster attack rate, the scaling defense, the pulsing stability… it basically puts the regular Death Shroud to shame in almost every single way.
The advantages of DS: range, torment, immobilized. That’s pretty much it.

I’d like to agree with this and add another suggestion…As of now, it seems that reaper seems to benefit much more from Dhuumfire, Unyielding Blast, and Reaper’s Might due to the low cast time of the Auto Attack in Reaper’s Shroud.

Suggestion: Reduce Life Blast’s cast time (to 1/2 like in plague blast). If this proves to be too powerful, then the damage could be reduced a bit but then Life Blast might need a further effect (transfer 1 condition like in plague blast maybe?).

flow.6043:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Read every post so far guys! My report is basically done, but I’m going to hold on to it for now until when I go to bed tonight (So like 10-12 hours from now). If you have any last thoughts that should make it into the report, now’s the time!

I just want to say in light of all the work you did, and Robert Gee even mentioning the community’s feedback on stream, you deserve a round of applaus and a cookie.
/hands-over-special-necro-cookie

This. But i think its important to mention Rising Dusk also did a huge report on the necro more focused on PvE. So huge props to him aswell. And really glad the balance team is making good use of our feedback. So props to them as well.

Necro vs Reaper is not a hard choice, sure necro is ranged of nature but it’s easier to take him down while his damage is slower to build up,execute and profits less from it’s own core traits. I’m supporting the 1 sec ICD per attacker on siphons with increased base numbers and scaling,the addition of projectile destruction,utilities working in DS that’s a big one and don’t forget Parasitic Contagion working in DS too. By siphon I hope they allow siphon from venoms,runes and sigils also. Core specializations needs some polishing just like core skills.

I’m not sure if it’s good that shouts scale in offense but what about defense?

flow.6043:

My suggestion: 3 stacks of stability for 3 seconds on Tainted Shackles.
I think with Infusing Terror we’re long past the “necro shouldn’t have too much stability” debate, especially if you can get Foot in the Grave in addition to that.
And Tainted Shackles is a long cooldown skill anyway. Plus, it would give some nice synnergy with the skill itself if the stability covered the time when torment is applied until the immobilized hits in the end.
Imo this would not be the biggest buff, but just enough to make pure core specs not feel bad about themselves for not picking the Reaper.

If you want it to stand against reaper, I’m not sure giving it the same advantages is the best way to go. I would rather see a buff to whatever already separates them.

For example, DS is ranged. If the main projectile were flipped to increase damage with distance instead of proximity, and the teleport changed from a closer to an escape, it would better synergize with fear while keeping you out of melee to help extend shroud time. These easy changes would give it stronger contrast against the melee RS, letting them each contribute to different play styles.

apoidea.7095:

I’d like to agree with this and add another suggestion…As of now, it seems that reaper seems to benefit much more from Dhuumfire, Unyielding Blast, and Reaper’s Might due to the low cast time of the Auto Attack in Reaper’s Shroud.

The tooltip of Life Reap (the 3 hit in the aa chain) say it’s the only one that works with Life Blast traits. So Reaper would actually be a little slower but maybe gets more effective with the 5 target aoe?

Another thing I wasn’t sure about, does Infusing Terror inflict 2 sec aoe fear and then Terrify an additional 1 sec aoe, so basically two aoe stuns in one skill? Or was the tooltip wrong and you just get the fear on Terrify?

flow.6043:

apoidea.7095:

I’d like to agree with this and add another suggestion…As of now, it seems that reaper seems to benefit much more from Dhuumfire, Unyielding Blast, and Reaper’s Might due to the low cast time of the Auto Attack in Reaper’s Shroud.

The tooltip of Life Reap (the 3 hit in the aa chain) say it’s the only one that works with Life Blast traits. So Reaper would actually be a little slower but maybe gets more effective with the 5 target aoe?

The tooltips from the livestream disagree with you:
http://i.imgur.com/hoUDwYQ.jpg

Gulesave.5073:

flow.6043:

My suggestion: 3 stacks of stability for 3 seconds on Tainted Shackles.
I think with Infusing Terror we’re long past the “necro shouldn’t have too much stability” debate, especially if you can get Foot in the Grave in addition to that.
And Tainted Shackles is a long cooldown skill anyway. Plus, it would give some nice synnergy with the skill itself if the stability covered the time when torment is applied until the immobilized hits in the end.
Imo this would not be the biggest buff, but just enough to make pure core specs not feel bad about themselves for not picking the Reaper.

If you want it to stand against reaper, I’m not sure giving it the same advantages is the best way to go. I would rather see a buff to whatever already separates them.

For example, DS is ranged. If the main projectile were flipped to increase damage with distance instead of proximity, and the teleport changed from a closer to an escape, it would better synergize with fear while keeping you out of melee to help extend shroud time. These easy changes would give it stronger contrast against the melee RS, letting them each contribute to different play styles.

I get that, and putting a stronger emphasis on ranged attacks with DS is fine, but something like pusling stability for 8 seconds vs no stability at all is just too big of a difference to simply ignore or compensate with offensive features instead.
And keep in mind that with DS you’re almost as much a melee brawler as the Reaper. You have skills in DS that are more effective at closer range and you have Tainted Shackles which is entirely limited to 600 range. Also, when you’re fighting for capture points you sort of have to stay in close range of your opponents anyway, not to mention that most other classes have an easier time catching up with you than you being able to keep them at a safe distance.

Really, and i want to state this once more before the report gets pushed, the change for the curses minor trait from doing 2% damage per condition to 2% crit per condition is painful. Also, it has been stated by the gms that the curses gm trait does not need a power based GM, but if its meant to be the crit line, atleast give it a crit trait. Right now all the GM traits are condi.

OlliX.1705:

The tooltips from the livestream disagree with you:
http://i.imgur.com/hoUDwYQ.jpg

Right, my bad…

flow.6043:

apoidea.7095:

I’d like to agree with this and add another suggestion…As of now, it seems that reaper seems to benefit much more from Dhuumfire, Unyielding Blast, and Reaper’s Might due to the low cast time of the Auto Attack in Reaper’s Shroud.

The tooltip of Life Reap (the 3 hit in the aa chain) say it’s the only one that works with Life Blast traits. So Reaper would actually be a little slower but maybe gets more effective with the 5 target aoe?

Look again. All three hits in the chain say they inherit traits that affect Life Blast.

I think the only major thing I’m still hoping for is some form of Endurance interaction in Blood Magic. I think it could fit well with the self-sustain vampire option (Drain endurance from enemies?), or vigor could be available somewhere in the minor traits.

I suppose it could also show up in the Death Magic line since that seems to be the other “For Defense” line? But Blood Magic just seems like it should be the self-sustain line, and getting dodges back faster seems like a form of sustain that’s high in demand for Necromancers.

Softspoken.2410:

I think the only major thing I’m still hoping for is some form of Endurance interaction in Blood Magic. I think it could fit well with the self-sustain vampire option (Drain endurance from enemies?), or vigor could be available somewhere in the minor traits.

I suppose it could also show up in the Death Magic line since that seems to be the other “For Defense” line? But Blood Magic just seems like it should be the self-sustain line, and getting dodges back faster seems like a form of sustain that’s high in demand for Necromancers.

Seems like blood magic is for healing / siphons. Death magic for tanking. So siphon buffs for blood magic preferably. Vigors/protections/immunes and other things to the other line if possible.

Darwec.3784:

Softspoken.2410:

I think the only major thing I’m still hoping for is some form of Endurance interaction in Blood Magic. I think it could fit well with the self-sustain vampire option (Drain endurance from enemies?), or vigor could be available somewhere in the minor traits.

I suppose it could also show up in the Death Magic line since that seems to be the other “For Defense” line? But Blood Magic just seems like it should be the self-sustain line, and getting dodges back faster seems like a form of sustain that’s high in demand for Necromancers.

Seems like blood magic is for healing / siphons. Death magic for tanking. So siphon buffs for blood magic preferably. Vigors/protections/immunes and other things to the other line if possible.

Let me siphon endurance.

apoidea.7095:

I’m wondering what nerfs the report includes?…I’m still reading through the thread (so many replies) but my standpoint is that we should be more hesitant to suggest that X needs nerfing before we really get to see how X performs (play it for ourselves).

Sure, suggesting some nerfing to seemingly overpowered traits/skills/etc… might help with balancing, but until we really get our hands on the new content, I believe these nerf suggestions may be doing more harm than good (as they imply that something is unbalanced when it very well could be more balanced than it looks on paper).

Take, for instance, the common misconception many make that the Death Shroud mechanic (currently) is overpowered because it acts as a secondary health pool. On paper, this mechanic seems rather overpowered; however, once players were able to play the necromancer, they found out that the Death Shroud mechanic is not as reliable of a defense mechanic as they originally believed.

Edit: I’m not saying discussion is not welcome nor that we should all be sitting ducks while we wait; however, from what I’ve seen so far, there have been a great deal of posts in which players are already suggesting nerfs to the class (which to me is quite frightening).

In the end, there’s a lot of information we don’t have, but highlighting the concerns we have or concerns that haven’t been addressed in the live stream help them out a lot. They have the ability to take our concerns, however baseless they might be with the information we have, and test them out early.

This time around, most of the feedback was

1. Blood Magic sounds cool, what’s the numbers on it?
2. What are core necros going to do without the expansion?
3. Necro self defense?
4. Minions need to be less lazy and disruptable.
5. Shouts are sort of lack luster
6. Greatsword is iffy on the damage/utility
7. Reaper’s Death shroud is amazing
8. Reaper traits are amazing
9. Other smaller concerns or interesting suggetsions (allied condition transfers being clunky, Vamp Mark on dark fields)

It seems that renewing blast (the trait that gave healing properties to life blast/plague blast) got removed from traiting. While it is true that the current state of the game makes the trait rather useless, I think it’d be an interesting idea to tweak the trait somehow…

Suggestion: Similar to how Robert had said that the devs are playing around with transfusion being able to revive allies, I think it would be interesting to allow renewing blast to do the same (heal downed or dead allies).

For core necromancers, this would work out if each time the life blast hit an enemy, a small-radius field showed up at necromancer’s location (or the monster’s location, but idk how that would work with bosses) that granted X amount of healing.

I have no idea how balanced this would be and for that reason it might be a terrible idea, but the thought seemed intriguing enough to share. This would give reapers a unique party support while still playing into the necromancer theme of master of death/resurrection. Still, this trait would heal only allies rather than yourself and can only be used in the midst of combat close to the necromancer, so it might still be balanced if numbers are played around with.

I think we could really use some access to Vigor. All other classes have either Invulnerability, Block, Evasion, Stealth, Vigor, or multiple of those, along with heavy armor. And that’s absurd. As a light armor class, the least we should have is access to vigor for a few extra dodges. It makes more sense too. Why would heavy armor classes be able to dodge more, and a light armored class be able to dodge less? Makes no sense.

Currently I’m less worried about the Reaper, and more worried about our core class. If they don’t up the numbers on life stealing, it might only be decent on the Reaper, and still rubbish on the base necro. While no doubt the expansion will cause everyone and their mother to roll a Reaper, the core class should not be so clearly inferior to Reaper.

Yeah im still concerned about the core specs. I know they have been reworking a lot of things thanks to our feedback. But I would like to get some info about what exactly they have changed sometime soon. That way we can give a second wave of good feedback. And hopefully less stuff will need to be addressed with it. At the moment its kind of difficult to give any more feedback because we know they are changing a lot of stuff on the core specs but we dont know what exactly.

For the record, Gates, your report topics mostly line up with my last two, so I think the double whammy will be particularly helpful to them. I’m not discussing minions so much, and am more focusing on the traits and their synergies and where the issues are there. That said my next report is heavily focused on the Reaper, so that will be relevant as well.

flow.6043:

I just want to say in light of all the work you did, and Robert Gee even mentioning the community’s feedback on stream, you deserve a round of applaus and a cookie.
/hands-over-special-necro-cookie

Feels

Rising Dusk.2408:

For the record, Gates, your report topics mostly line up with my last two, so I think the double whammy will be particularly helpful to them. I’m not discussing minions so much, and am more focusing on the traits and their synergies and where the issues are there. That said my next report is heavily focused on the Reaper, so that will be relevant as well.

flow.6043:

I just want to say in light of all the work you did, and Robert Gee even mentioning the community’s feedback on stream, you deserve a round of applaus and a cookie.
/hands-over-special-necro-cookie

Feels

Sorry, didn’t mean to exclude you xD
Spoj already stepped in to extend our gratitude to you as well.

Rising Dusk.2408:

For the record, Gates, your report topics mostly line up with my last two, so I think the double whammy will be particularly helpful to them. I’m not discussing minions so much, and am more focusing on the traits and their synergies and where the issues are there. That said my next report is heavily focused on the Reaper, so that will be relevant as well.

flow.6043:

I just want to say in light of all the work you did, and Robert Gee even mentioning the community’s feedback on stream, you deserve a round of applaus and a cookie.
/hands-over-special-necro-cookie

Feels

-hugs-

Don’t worry they love you, too.

Bahaha, it’s okay, I just really wanted to use an “I’m being ignored” gif in my post after reading it.

I recommend siphoning endurance again in Blood Magic,utilities working in DS so we don’t have wasted traits capabilities and yes another stream for core specializations would be really appreciated.

Still think reapers and Necros in general need a reflect or some way to block the barrage of range attacks that can slap us around due to our terrible mobility. Again, I’m not asking for mobility, just a way to temporarily handle range as a slow moving blob that our class is. Seems like necro should have some sort or ability to reflect which would aid in PVP and pve

Thematically we don’t fit blocks reflects etc and was said those things wouldn’t be given to us since they didn’t fit the class. Also inherently ranged damage would be the weakness of the close combat class reaper is.

We have tools to avoid being stunned from range now with the extra vuln and the trait relentless pursuit to help us keep marching at people till can pull or slow them down.

Thematically group buffs, mobility and evades do not fit the necro. Blocks and reflects are a completely different story.

spoj.9672:

Thematically group buffs, mobility and evades do not fit the necro. Blocks and reflects are a completely different story.

And where would they fit? Besides spectral wall or CPC for projectiles ??

He’s not saying it would necessarily fit on current skills, just that there is no reason it couldn’t fit on new skills. Though WoD would also fit it.

I could also see Spectral Armor absorbing projectiles shot at you, while Spectral Walk could cause the trail left by your movement with the skill active to reflect projectiles. Spectral skills in general outside of Spectral Grasp feel as though they could have a reflect/block component.

Bhawb.7408:

He’s not saying it would necessarily fit on current skills, just that there is no reason it couldn’t fit on new skills. Though WoD would also fit it.

This is exactly what i meant.

But we do actually have plenty of fitting skills already. CPC, spectral wall, spectral armor, WoD and enfeebling blood could work as a projectile block just like ring of earth does.

And death magic is also the perfect line to add reflects/blocks to deathshroud. Its our defensive line. How about we actually get traits which make DS more defensive?

I see no reason why a slow moving heavy hitter would not have some defense against missles/arrows/ranged attacks, and why we would be precluded from such defense mechanisms, given our limited access and deathshroud dependent defense. Especially since we are not asking for group buffs, mobility buffs, or anything else, nor will we receive such items. Just need some way to mitigate these classes that can just stay so far away and we have no hopes of catching given our limited mobility etc.

I don’t see why we have to be weak vs range as a “themantic” aspect of our class.

I think when we jump forward on the new DS/KS #2 it should reflect missles, or perhaps on existing skills like spectral wall (seems totally possible it should block projectiles, as well as spectral armor absorbing them (and not reflecting for damage back at the attacker.

I am not really even asking for reflects per say but a way for these abilities to absorb the hits (and not really return damage).

Projectile destruction not reflects, it’s all good reaper shows potential as well possibly base necro but seriously the lack of scaling defense is day 1 problem and we’re supposed to be an attrition. About trait lines spite could receive that retaliation heals based on damage,curses parasitic contagion,death magic weakening conditions and boons(yes boons),blood magic siphon and soul reaping…DS. Stop overestimating DS we are weak(er) with 0 LF.

About reaper it was kind of disappointing it did not get taunt or more pulls if it’s supposed to be weak vs range let it find some defense in core specializations.

Considering theyre doing dragonhunter pvp – with builds the comunity speculated on will be good,
I think it would be nice to see reaper pvp, too see how much its actualy worth.

• xxxxxx necro vs 606060 thief (panic + exe + shadow arts bull + new -50% dmg stealthed)

• xxxxxx necro vs shoutbot 2.0

• xxxxxx necro vs mesmer (can be chrono interupt or 1 line defensive if its worth it)

Basically its needs to kill the teamsupport bunker of shoutbot , and ofc not losing to the most mobile zerkers – whats the point of slow fortress if it loses to fast fly ?

I’m hoping the Dragonhunter PvP is done with some of the other announced specializations in the same game. I want nothing more than everyone to be complaining about DH just to watch it get absolutely demolished by a Reaper.

Rising Dusk.2408:

I could also see Spectral Armor absorbing projectiles shot at you, while Spectral Walk could cause the trail left by your movement with the skill active to reflect projectiles. Spectral skills in general outside of Spectral Grasp feel as though they could have a reflect/block component.

TRON Deathcycle – I like it. Make it block movement, too.

Anchoku.8142:

Rising Dusk.2408:

I could also see Spectral Armor absorbing projectiles shot at you, while Spectral Walk could cause the trail left by your movement with the skill active to reflect projectiles. Spectral skills in general outside of Spectral Grasp feel as though they could have a reflect/block component.

TRON Deathcycle – I like it. Make it block movement, too.

That would be a genuinely hilarious way to stop people from escaping, although would be pretty abusing in WvW zergs.

But aren’t spectral skills about ghostliness in which case shouldn’t you lack the solid body to reflect/block projectiles anyway…(Sorry just commenting on the assertion that reflect/block fits into spectrals but I still do agree that we need some way to handle projectiles).

Guess we’ll just have to deal with infusing terror (stability) + Spectral Armor to absorb the damage as gaining life force until then orz…