Guild Wars 2

My main is ele. I currently run T4 fractals with the ele. However, since I mostly PUG, when in a group without sufficient support, I end up spending more time surviving than doing my optimal DPS rotation.

I have been considering switching to use a necro, since they are more survivable and often preferred in condi groups.

I was wondering do I need a condi necro? Can i run with power necro and still do competitive dps while enjoy the survivability? (since I can just move the gear from my ele to necro for power)

What’s Anet’s stance on necro being the T4 fractals PUG meta? Is a nerf coming?

In Nightmare fractal challenge mote Power can solo one of the Echoes when facing Siax with around half the time left to assist others. I can’t speak for Condi, but I’ll assume it can probably a lot easier. I use that as an example because it’s really the only place DPS matters in terms of content completion regarding Fractals.

Just don’t be that person and go into a condi LFG as power because that isn’t right =/

Use what you want, don’t let others dictate how you play :p

power necro in fractals is bad. especially 100CM because mobs have protection and ensolyss teleports around. even if you strip protection it still has some uptime and its dramatically reducing power dps. apart from that mobs in t4 fractals have more toughness. save power necro for dungeons i’d say. but you can play whatever you want as long as people accept you in their party (they most likely wont and if they do prepare for newbie fiesta)

Ehh, I see all kinds. I don’t really have that sort of issue though Sublimatio. I mean, the last time 100 mote was a bust for me was when it was still new, now I try to run it almost daily, usually without issue, save a wipe here and there. I don’t think player builds and skill level go hand in hand anyway. That is quite an… Odd comparison.

Sublimatio.6981:

power necro in fractals is bad. especially 100CM because mobs have protection and ensolyss teleports around. even if you strip protection it still has some uptime and its dramatically reducing power dps. apart from that mobs in t4 fractals have more toughness. save power necro for dungeons i’d say. but you can play whatever you want as long as people accept you in their party (they most likely wont and if they do prepare for newbie fiesta)

No, power necro in fractals is not bad… if its bad, then its the user. I have had absolutely no issues since I made my power set for necro and I run mine every day.

OP- play what you want. Both are prefectly acceptable. If you have issues surviving (hard to believe that could happen with a Necro…) then try condi. its a bit easier

yes it is bad. comparing to other classes it has terrible dps

“T4 – condi necros only” has been a thing for a long time, and I don’t think anet plans on nerfing necro because of it. On the contrary they have actually buffed condi necro during this time period.
It may not be the optimal setup for organised parties, but for pugs it is great.
As for power vs condi, run what you like but keep in mind condi is vastly superior in t4s. What with epidemic bouncing, you can melt just about any non boss in a matter of seconds. As for solo bosses, condi is still higher dps and can do so at range (with melee rs #5#4 combo and greatsword if you want to use it for perfect rotation).

voidvector.2780:

I have been considering switching to use a necro, since they are more survivable and often preferred in condi groups.

I was wondering do I need a condi necro?

If one of your driving factors behind switching to necro is to get into condi groups, then yes it helps to be a condi necro.

Although I guess that doesn’t stop people from joining condi LFG’s as a power necro and hoping nobody notices.

most of the time I just see “viper necro” in t4 pugs, and I get asked at times when I join if I’m condi build or not, so power isn’t too welcome in t4s, it has even lower DPS than condi and condi DPS is average/below average at best…

Also yes let’s nerf the last place where necro is welcome ^^
(then the class can get reworked)

Sublimatio.6981:

yes it is bad. comparing to other classes it has terrible dps

so DPS limit means a class is “bad” in fractals?

I dunno if you’ve ever done fractals before, but losing the equivalent of maybe 3 seconds on a boss fight doesn’t make a class bad… FYI, fractals aren’t timed by the way! You can fairly easily be high 20’s-low 30k dps if you learn the class.

learn to have a preference rather than pretend to be factual.

Chris Mavriplis.6517:

I dunno if you’ve ever done fractals before, but losing the equivalent of maybe 3 seconds on a boss fight doesn’t make a class bad… FYI, fractals aren’t timed by the way! You can fairly easily be high 20’s-low 30k dps if you learn the class.

Power Necromancer is substantially weaker than other classes, resulting in a lot more than 3 seconds lost. Even things like IP Thief do substantially more damage than a Necromancer, and are equally invincible. Power Necromancer is also less mobile and has less overall utility than other classes. Side note, I’d like to see a video of your 30k+ power Necromancer rotation with realistic buffs on the special forces golem.

Chris Mavriplis.6517:

Sublimatio.6981:

yes it is bad. comparing to other classes it has terrible dps

so DPS limit means a class is “bad” in fractals?

I dunno if you’ve ever done fractals before, but losing the equivalent of maybe 3 seconds on a boss fight doesn’t make a class bad… FYI, fractals aren’t timed by the way! You can fairly easily be high 20’s-low 30k dps if you learn the class.

learn to have a preference rather than pretend to be factual.

Or you can actually run fractals before you open your trap?

Do you know what the word ‘bad’ means? It depends on the context. In this case we are talking about utility AND damage. Power necro lacks in both.

Also 3 seconds on off a hallucination in 100 CM can wipe your squad. And yes, it IS timed. It’s the only fight where you are required as a power necro to run soul reaping in order to pull your weight.

Just because fractals generally isn’t timed doesn’t make something ‘not bad’. Or are you going to start arguing for celestial builds as well?

FrostDraco.8306:

Chris Mavriplis.6517:

Sublimatio.6981:

yes it is bad. comparing to other classes it has terrible dps

so DPS limit means a class is “bad” in fractals?

I dunno if you’ve ever done fractals before, but losing the equivalent of maybe 3 seconds on a boss fight doesn’t make a class bad… FYI, fractals aren’t timed by the way! You can fairly easily be high 20’s-low 30k dps if you learn the class.

learn to have a preference rather than pretend to be factual.

Or you can actually run fractals before you open your trap?

Do you know what the word ‘bad’ means? It depends on the context. In this case we are talking about utility AND damage. Power necro lacks in both.

Also 3 seconds on off a hallucination in 100 CM can wipe your squad. And yes, it IS timed. It’s the only fight where you are required as a power necro to run soul reaping in order to pull your weight.

Just because fractals generally isn’t timed doesn’t make something ‘not bad’. Or are you going to start arguing for celestial builds as well?

So the child in you gets triggered pretty easy, no?

Fyi, this thread is relevant for T4s (see the title) which in any lfg means dailies (not cm). To your point about the hallucinations- that is valid I agree! However, it’s 5 players vs 4 mobs… Do the math. Some are able to solo, and a condi can float between 2 helping them. Or do you expect the extra to fall asleep?

Gonna ignore your irrelevant celestial comment… Because, yeah not related lmao?

Ohh also, yeah I have no idea what the word bad means! Sucks right??? Smdh… some people….

Whoa! Please cool your jets everyone – there’s no need for accusations and name-calling in our friendly game forum.

@Chris Mavriplis I guess that celestial comment was aimed at me since I was talking favourably about that stat set in the other fractal thread FrostDraco was commenting on. Again @FrostDraco if you’d like to have a discussion on this topic I would be more than happy to oblige you, but I think perhaps it would be better to make it a separate thread since it would take a thread like this on a rather substantial tangent ::)

Realistic buff should mean something completely different in pug fractal.
You can’t expect you always have druid/warrior/chrono support(no constant might fury quickness). Power reaper can self generate a lot of might which is a strong plus in fractals. You also get boosted crit-chance in shroud. On top of that, It also has great survivability. I don’t see how it is ‘bad’ in any way in a fractal run.

Power is not bad, but condi is better. Since it’s not hard core PvE, anything should work. The reason why people prefer condi necro fpr T4 fractal is not about dps but how easy a to work with a viper necro . And so far I don’t think any gear give more points on offensive than viper at the moment.
Some reason I can see:
- range, if you can do range attack, you can do melee
- blood magic trait give some decent team support
- epi is a great Aoe
- provide condi clear (individual and team) if needed
- minion condi dmg scale with necro condi dmg (not power)
- simple rotation, don’t even need to swap weapon
- extra hp bar

….. So when it comes to pugs, viper necro is more forgiven (hope i use this word right) than other classes

To me, Fractal is more of a chore than anything else. So anything that makes it easier for my daily the better.

Thank you all for the input

Chris Mavriplis.6517:

Sublimatio.6981:

yes it is bad. comparing to other classes it has terrible dps

so DPS limit means a class is “bad” in fractals?

Yes

Sublimatio.6981:

Chris Mavriplis.6517:

Sublimatio.6981:

yes it is bad. comparing to other classes it has terrible dps

so DPS limit means a class is “bad” in fractals?

Yes

I’ll leave my last response as something that I think applies to lots of other classes in this game. If you are having issues being good at something, that’s fine- but it doesn’t make the class bad at it. The challenges that you come up against can be overcome, but you need to be willing to actually sit down and think for a few minutes on how you could improve it. obviously (others on this thread have supported power as being completely usable), the T4 fractals are easily completed by a power necro- that’s just a fact.

Now, when you start doing 100CM or certain raid bosses where overall squad/party comp plays a bigger role- its less viable ONLY because there are groups out there who sit on their thumbs and pray to metabattle rather than doing what the spec/class system was designed to do. It gives you clear possibilities to make different variances of the class which allows for different play styles.

Guild wars is built in a way that actually enables customization. They leave it up to the player to make it good.

dude of course you can complete the content with bad classes and builds, we talk here about power necro being bad and not whether it can clear t4 fractals or not lol

Sublimatio.6981:

dude of course you can complete the content with bad classes and builds, we talk here about power necro being bad and not whether it can clear t4 fractals or not lol

title of the thread……… “Fractal T4 necro gearing”

0_o

yeah, thats why the discussion is about encouraging condi gearing rather than power.

my point is that either works. I have no idea how this is so hard for you to get… sure, encourage the one you like but for T4 fractals they both work.

just because something works doesnt mean its good. condi outperforms power

My advice would be get a viper set first, then a power set. I often change my necro t4 setup after I get bored of one. Currently back to power (spite/blood/reaper, gs, a/f, full zerker).

why axe though, its extremely weak compared to dagger

Sublimatio.6981:

why axe though, its extremely weak compared to dagger

Actually axe does about the same dps as dagger, is ranged, and has extra boon stip. Dagger is worse than GS for dps. There is zero reason to ever run dagger now outside of preference.

no, dagger deals more dmg than axe. of course on power necro you should never leave GS but if you have to, dagger has immobilize (more breakbar dmg), corrupts 2 boons and not 1, has a 600 range heal if you need it. and the autoattack is almost on par with gs auto, while axe falls behind a lot and doesn’t cleave.

Sublimatio.6981:

no, dagger deals more dmg than axe. of course on power necro you should never leave GS but if you have to, dagger has immobilize (more breakbar dmg), corrupts 2 boons and not 1, has a 600 range heal if you need it. and the autoattack is almost on par with gs auto, while axe falls behind a lot and doesn’t cleave.

I heard dagger has some good LF regen too

Sublimatio.6981:

no, dagger deals more dmg than axe. of course on power necro you should never leave GS but if you have to, dagger has immobilize (more breakbar dmg), corrupts 2 boons and not 1, has a 600 range heal if you need it. and the autoattack is almost on par with gs auto, while axe falls behind a lot and doesn’t cleave.

Why use dagger when you can just use GS??…..Why would you need the immob when breakbars basically don’t exist for necro??? I mean seriously, reapers hroud has more cc than dagger, why not use that instead of gimping yourself with a lower dps weapon you honestly can play a power necro without ever using? Use flesh golem instead of dagger?

Axe strips 2 boons mind you, and dagger is not on par with GS. Idk where you heard that but GS has better damage than dagger. Maybe you should actually look up the benchmarks? Oh wait, you used an immob? Theres your dps on dagger gone. GS has more cleave, blinds, chills, vuln, and more dps. The only thing dagger has over GS is lifeforce regen, which you barely even need, even on a soul reaping build, GS is better to use than dagger.

Why do you need immob, when you can just switch to axe, have similar dps, and range!? It’s almost like you have zero clue.

Axe is also ranged, which is better than staff, and slightly worse than dagger (axe is about 21-22k dps, while dagger is 23k).

Edit: I put 3 as a typo, which was incorrect its 2 boons.

“Now, when you start doing 100CM or certain raid bosses where overall squad/party comp plays a bigger role- its less viable ONLY because there are groups out there who sit on their thumbs and pray to metabattle rather than doing what the spec/class system was designed to do. It gives you clear possibilities to make different variances of the class which allows for different play styles.”

Mavrip – your dog may hate you, your family may hate you, hell yout deity may hate you, but i freaking love you for that sentence

On topic – if you want easier time in your life i’d say condi, because that’s also raid meta – so one gear set for both fracs and raids without having issues with ppl cussing at you.
If you like power necro and got a set of big and hairy ones, then bite the bullet and go power. Generally play what you like, that’s what the game is about

also first time i hear axe corrupts 3 boons, last time i checked that was something focus did, axe at best deals with 2.

FrostDraco.8306:

Sublimatio.6981:

no, dagger deals more dmg than axe. of course on power necro you should never leave GS but if you have to, dagger has immobilize (more breakbar dmg), corrupts 2 boons and not 1, has a 600 range heal if you need it. and the autoattack is almost on par with gs auto, while axe falls behind a lot and doesn’t cleave.

Why use dagger when you can just use GS??…..Why would you need the immob when breakbars basically don’t exist for necro??? I mean seriously, reapers hroud has more cc than dagger, why not use that instead of gimping yourself with a lower dps weapon you honestly can play a power necro without ever using? Use flesh golem instead of dagger?

Axe strips 2 boons mind you, and dagger is not on par with GS. Idk where you heard that but GS has better damage than dagger. Maybe you should actually look up the benchmarks? Oh wait, you used an immob? Theres your dps on dagger gone. GS has more cleave, blinds, chills, vuln, and more dps. The only thing dagger has over GS is lifeforce regen, which you barely even need, even on a soul reaping build, GS is better to use than dagger.

Why do you need immob, when you can just switch to axe, have similar dps, and range!? It’s almost like you have zero clue.

Axe is also ranged, which is better than staff, and slightly worse than dagger (axe is about 21-22k dps, while dagger is 23k).

Edit: I put 3 as a typo, which was incorrect its 2 boons.

wow you’re so emotional i can’t even comprehend. first of all, if you put me in quotes maybe first read what i wrote (“on power necro you should never leave GS”)

Having run both ele and necro in T4 for two weeks now, I found that ele is better in encounters where boss doesn’t move around or boss mechanics is relatively simple because ele can easily do full rotation in those cases thus yielding high DPS. Necro is better in most other situations especially with random group composition (pugging or ragtag guild group) as ele would either have hard time keeping rotation or hard time aiming ground-target skills. Of course, with a “decked out” group composition (i.e. chrono & druid supporting ele), some of the more complex boss mechanics can totally be ignored, ele would be better than necro in those situations.

As for power vs condi, I have gone with condi because I already have full set ascended power gear on my ele. The reason I chose to gear necro was to allow myself to swap gears between the two characters in the future (for power necro or viper ele).

Going back to the op’s original, I can understand the frustration of t4 fractals being difficult on various classes. I’ve done t4 fractals as a berserker, scrapper, herald, daredevil, and tempest, and found that reaper is the easiest. I’ve done it with berzerker stats: works just fine. Made the switch to carrion just to try it out: works just fine with a lot more survivability. Either way, you can pretty much just facetank bosses and go get a cookie.

I’ve never consulted metabattle for fractals because there are many viable builds.

Oogabooga.3812:

Going back to the op’s original, I can understand the frustration of t4 fractals being difficult on various classes. I’ve done t4 fractals as a berserker, scrapper, herald, daredevil, and tempest, and found that reaper is the easiest. I’ve done it with berzerker stats: works just fine. Made the switch to carrion just to try it out: works just fine with a lot more survivability. Either way, you can pretty much just facetank bosses and go get a cookie.

I’ve never consulted metabattle for fractals because there are many viable builds.

Might as well just go viper. I think you and meta battle, and most good players, have different views on what viable means.

Just because you can get away with using something bad, doesn’t make that thing good or viable. It just means you got carried. There are plenty of viable builds that aren’t on meta battle, like commander chrono, but carrion necro, certainly isnt one of them.