The 8k gravedigger (yes singular, ive only hit one so far in 5h) put a big smile on my face. So for pvp its pretty much safe to afk a game if u see someone wielding a GS.
But i ask poeple who know the PVE side more, is it same trash there? I heard the new mobs actually interupt, so rip necro and hi ele alt again?
Hasn’t been my experience at all. I usually start with a gravedigger on a mob/group of mobs then switch to RS or dagger to get down to 50% then spam Gravedigger for the win. Critting for 14-16k with the crappy beta gear so who knows what I could do with full ascended with proper sigils. There’s definitely been times when the mobs screw me over but thats all part of the fun. They finally got the risk/reward ratio down perfectly. If I could land these Gravedigger hits by facerolling, I would think they were a bit too strong. As it stands, I think its perfect.
I’ve run the numbers already, Gravedigger is a gain at the 50% health mark… Easily. Fully buffed with optimized group setup I was reaching 20k. Even with the cast time the damage is large enough to make it worth it.
Although that is the main reason GS will be meta in pve It also has some nice stuff such as very good LF generation in large groups of mobs, a bonus pull (Why the hell not) and low cooldown blind access, which is just fantastic.
Server: Yak’s Bend | Main: Aliah Raheim
Necro main since beta, MMO fanatic and avid beta tester.
It really all seems worthwhile until you compare the numbers to a burst class like Tempest, then it’s not even close. I made a glass canon ELE and it crushed the veterans compared to the Reaper. I stayed alive longer but we are cursed with the same absurd thing…it’ll die from boredom before you kill it meaning “raid viability is nil” . We are once again the bottom scrubbing class.
If I’ve missed a build or weapon combo or gear combo please feel free to pint it out.
Vini, Vidi, Vici, Viridis…I came, I saw, I conquered…I got a green??
So far in Verdant Brink, I prefer dagger/focus over greatsword.
Dagger is 8% LF gen on a shorter AA and is pretty steady. The siphon is also rock solid.
Focus is 3% LF per bounce for up to 4 bounces and can regenerate the LF pool quickly even against single opponents. Reaper’s touch is on an 18 sec ICD.
Greatsword is currently 0/0/2%, as near as i can tell, for AA. Gravedigger has 0% LF. Death Spiral supposedly has 2% on a 12 sec ICD. There is no LF on Nightfall and Grasping Darkness has 4% but on a 30 sec ICD.
I am going to look over the traiting to see if there is a way to boost this.
So far in Verdant Brink, I prefer dagger/focus over greatsword.
Dagger is 8% LF gen on a shorter AA and is pretty steady. The siphon is also rock solid.
Focus is 3% LF per bounce for up to 4 bounces and can regenerate the LF pool quickly even against single opponents. Reaper’s touch is on an 18 sec ICD.
Greatsword is currently 0/0/2%, as near as i can tell, for AA. Gravedigger has 0% LF. Death Spiral supposedly has 2% on a 12 sec ICD. There is no LF on Nightfall and Grasping Darkness has 4% but on a 30 sec ICD.
I am going to look over the traiting to see if there is a way to boost this.
If the auto attacks are giving 0/0/2, then it’s clearly a bug, and you shouldn’t base balance opinions on something that is very obviously working differently than the tooltip says it should. Though they seem to be giving 1/1/3 for me, for each target hit. Autoing 3 targets builds it up fast. Death Spiral is 2% per hit and hits 6 times per target, up to a potential 36% every 12 seconds. And Grasping Darkness also hits 4% on each target.
EDIT: after further testing, GS auto seems to be giving me 1/1/4% LF on autos. So it does seem to be not working properly, but in our favor.
In my opinion yes. You are slow but you hit hard, we are getting there with the risk/gain ratio. :-D
I only have 2 issues:
While doing smaller events in the VB with other players mobs melted so fast, and Reaper attacks are so slow, that I had trouble landing more than one hit. Sometime not even one hit since our mobility is not stellar and they died before I could get in range. :-/ A longer reach for the pull and/or a lower cooldown may solve the issue. Let us snatch the mobs first!
I know they are still working on CC condi & defiant bosses, but they have to make our debuffs as relevant as boons and vulnerability in PvE. Otherwise we have no chance to bring anything meaningful in PvE, short of buffing the Greatsword damage to the Icebow’s insane and broken levels. TL;DR: Make our chills and other debuffs matter.
PvE Reaper shines brightly on sustained fights. I did Ascalonian Catacombs with a friend (duo run). I kept the Spider Queen and Kholer at bay like a boss. Vampirc wells + aura + GS trait, gives you good sustain even in Berserker gear while dealing full damage. I hope raids will make this kind of play relevant.
Overall I’m happy with were they are going but a couple of issues are worrying me. Keep up the good work and make justice to this profession for the first time since release.
Don’t know how the hell I managed it but I got a 35k crit on Grave digger as my highest so far. Got it on one of the champions in Silverwastes after void walker. Swiftly followed by a 32k. Around 12-18k is the ‘normal’ though.
GS 4 and 5 definitely feel better, though i think 4 could do with a little DPS increase.
GS3 feels much better, again maybe a slight increase in damage
Gravedigger can hit like a truck but the animation still feels a little too slow. Id prefer the damage to drop a little per hit but speed of the hit increase.
GS1, still feels too clunky and slow for the sake of being slow. I just think the final hit needs speeding up just a little.
Overall it’s an improvement, but fast moving mobs can still ‘interrupt’ it.
Overall it’s an improvement, but fast moving mobs can still ‘interrupt’ it.
Tip: Movement doesn’t interrupt GS2 and GS3. Chase them to ensure you hit. Keep going and pass trough the enemy model after hitting to avoid the enemy attack. Gravedigger is not rooted like 100blades, take advantage of this. :-)
Don’t know how the hell I managed it but I got a 35k crit on Grave digger as my highest so far. Got it on one of the champions in Silverwastes after void walker. Swiftly followed by a 32k. Around 12-18k is the ‘normal’ though.
It was probably on one of the spinning poison trail Thrashers, they take double damage from behind.
Oh I understand that, but it’s still possibly for mobs to changed direction or start moving near the end of the cast so you can’t react in time.
Also realised I’m not so keen on Nightfall starting with a small area and slowly getting bigger. It starts just a little too small (seems like it’s radius 130 ) but seems ok by the final tick. I’d also prefer if it moved with you similar to Locust swarm.
I haven’t tested reworked GS in PvP this time yet, but I did in wvw and pve and I can say it’s a suicide stick in wvw. Might as well mail them loot and save them some time. Pve though it feels a whole lot better, I don’t think the life steal in the trait is noticeable but we need it for the recharge part more anyway so I could care less about it. I still feel slow but some of the changes have made it feel more skill based which is good. Knowing when to sit in a spin-to-win or not makes or breaks you. Still not done testing it yet and I would like to get some solid PvP feedback on it.
I can pull off 14-15k hits with GD, and maintain 3k-5k crits with the other GS skills. I hit a 30k crit on the Wyrven… GS is pretty beastly for PvE. The improvements to Grasping Darkness and Nightfall from the first BWE are a outstanding.
I can pull off 14-15k hits with GD, and maintain 3k-5k crits with the other GS skills. I hit a 30k crit on the Wyrven… GS is pretty beastly for PvE. The improvements to Grasping Darkness and Nightfall from the first BWE are a outstanding.
I did still notice a few ground pathing bugs with grasping, but otherwise a lot of the previous issues have been ironed out. I am pleased with it as-is in pve right now. It feels smoother and has a much better feel for a rotation, at least to me. I still don’t see it as a competitive weapon, but I will keep trying to figure out a way to make it work. If it never sees competitive play though I won’t be heartbroken over it.
GS is bloody spectacular in PvE, but it should only be used against foes under 50% HP. Otherwise you should be using RS.
For context, with full vuln and might, full berserker, Signet of Spite, and Force/Air sigils I was critting for 20k with Gravedigger on vet Risen Giants. Eat your heart out, Elementalists.
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I was hitting it at around 9k on average. Or 4k non-crit. At Teq I managed to get 29k crits easily. Considering its cast time and the damage, that’s extremely good. But gravedigger isn’t going to make or break the weapon. Overall the GS is a very good weapon for PvE.
The highest crit I’ve seen so far: 40k with gravedigger. Absolutely awesome.
I’m sure I had 25 might + 25 vuln + food and extra buffs from the surrounding players.
Outside this occasions, I’m seeing 9-13k crits. The main problem with GS is the lifeforce generation.
Well 40k when the wivern is stuned is pretty low… since damage are serverly uped chen the thing is stun.
I tried the GS and it’s disappointingly slow. There is now way it’s PvE worthy. The shroud rock, though. To be Okay, gravedigger would have to do 16k dps (which mean it’s damage divided by overall cast time and aftercast) when your are full buff. I don’t think it’s the case. (and even if it’s the case, it feel so slow, it’s unbearable)
No core profession should be balanced around an optional elite specialization.
On the one hand I wish the greatsword auto were buffed a bit more, because playing a mainhand sword revenant shows you how much more autoattack damage they do on a faster weapon as well.
But on the other hand I prefer they leave the greatsword autos as is so they buff reaper shroud skills by 20-30%, which they need if I’m ever going to use reaper shroud.
That way, above 50% health, you use grave digger and greatsword #3, then switch to reaper shroud and DPS. At 50% health you go for the gravedigger spam.
It’d make for a much nicer rotation.
And that reminds me, the reaper auto should apply chill as well, or one of the reaper attacks that’s not executioner’s scythe.
Well 40k when the wivern is stuned is pretty low… since damage are serverly uped chen the thing is stun.
I tried the GS and it’s disappointingly slow. There is now way it’s PvE worthy. The shroud rock, though. To be Okay, gravedigger would have to do 16k dps (which mean it’s damage divided by overall cast time and aftercast) when your are full buff. I don’t think it’s the case. (and even if it’s the case, it feel so slow, it’s unbearable)
Currently, where GS stands Gravedigger is a damage increase from dagger auto… So yeah, It’s pve worthy. :P In optimized groups It was hitting for 20k+ crits which even with the slow cast speed that is HUGE numbers.
RS is in a good place but I feel still needs a slight increase in damage. I still need to run some more numbers cause Dhuumfire is a thing, you don’t need DP anymore with decimate defenses. (Since now we can sustain 25 vuln in RS with ease.)
Server: Yak’s Bend | Main: Aliah Raheim
Necro main since beta, MMO fanatic and avid beta tester.
Well 40k when the wivern is stuned is pretty low… since damage are serverly uped chen the thing is stun.
I tried the GS and it’s disappointingly slow. There is now way it’s PvE worthy. The shroud rock, though. To be Okay, gravedigger would have to do 16k dps (which mean it’s damage divided by overall cast time and aftercast) when your are full buff. I don’t think it’s the case. (and even if it’s the case, it feel so slow, it’s unbearable)
Currently, where GS stands Gravedigger is a damage increase from dagger auto… So yeah, It’s pve worthy. :P In optimized groups It was hitting for 20k+ crits which even with the slow cast speed that is HUGE numbers.
RS is in a good place but I feel still needs a slight increase in damage. I still need to run some more numbers cause Dhuumfire is a thing, you don’t need DP anymore with decimate defenses. (Since now we can sustain 25 vuln in RS with ease.)
this.
GS feels better and the numbers justify using it when mob is under 50%. the 12 vuln from the 3 skill is also very nice w/ decimate trait…which allows you to take Dhummfire over death perception (adds 1000+ ticks quickly even in a power build).
dagger/warhorn should still be main set for LF gain, tho
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Well 40k when the wivern is stuned is pretty low… since damage are serverly uped chen the thing is stun.
I tried the GS and it’s disappointingly slow. There is now way it’s PvE worthy. The shroud rock, though. To be Okay, gravedigger would have to do 16k dps (which mean it’s damage divided by overall cast time and aftercast) when your are full buff. I don’t think it’s the case. (and even if it’s the case, it feel so slow, it’s unbearable)
Currently, where GS stands Gravedigger is a damage increase from dagger auto… So yeah, It’s pve worthy. :P In optimized groups It was hitting for 20k+ crits which even with the slow cast speed that is HUGE numbers.
RS is in a good place but I feel still needs a slight increase in damage. I still need to run some more numbers cause Dhuumfire is a thing, you don’t need DP anymore with decimate defenses. (Since now we can sustain 25 vuln in RS with ease.)
this.
GS feels better and the numbers justify using it when mob is under 50%.
dagger/warhorn should still be main set for LF gain, tho
Start Dagger/WH with RS, then switch to GS for Gravedigger spam once it hits 50%. Seems pretty decent, actually.
Yet a Tempest and the Revenant hit in excess of 30 k + crits regularly. GS 2 and 3 are nearly useless and they do not fill up RS quick enough, in fact i found myself switching weapons just to build RS up enough to save my butt.
Vini, Vidi, Vici, Viridis…I came, I saw, I conquered…I got a green??
Yet a Tempest and the Revenant hit in excess of 30 k + crits regularly. GS 2 and 3 are nearly useless and they do not fill up RS quick enough, in fact i found myself switching weapons just to build RS up enough to save my butt.
I think you are confused of the use of GS. It was designed to be an AoE LF weapon, and It serves that purpose quite well. In groups LF gain with the auto is fantastic. Dagger will always be the weapon of choice for single target LF gain, It will also always out dps GS auto. Our intended sustained AoE comes from RS.
Comparing Necro to the other classes is a foolish thing to do. Currently, in the state of pve there is heavy imbalance and in order for that to change it will take time. As for Rev, It’s still in beta so It doesn’t surprise me.
We’re finally getting endgame content, which means Anet now has to ACTUALLY balances, so let’s save opinions until we see what they end up doing.
Server: Yak’s Bend | Main: Aliah Raheim
Necro main since beta, MMO fanatic and avid beta tester.
Yet a Tempest and the Revenant hit in excess of 30 k + crits regularly. GS 2 and 3 are nearly useless and they do not fill up RS quick enough, in fact i found myself switching weapons just to build RS up enough to save my butt.
I think you are confused of the use of GS. It was designed to be an AoE LF weapon, and It serves that purpose quite well. In groups LF gain with the auto is fantastic. Dagger will always be the weapon of choice for single target LF gain, It will also always out dps GS auto. Our intended sustained AoE comes from RS.
Comparing Necro to the other classes is a foolish thing to do. Currently, in the state of pve there is heavy imbalance and in order for that to change it will take time. As for Rev, It’s still in beta so It doesn’t surprise me.
We’re finally getting endgame content, which means Anet now has to ACTUALLY balances, so let’s save opinions until we see what they end up doing.
We’ve been waiting for pve class balance for over 3 years in PvE. The LFG’s haven’t stopped shouting “WARRIOR/ELE/GUARD/THIEF ONLY” in that time.
So I don’t know what the hell you mean by waiting for them to do class balance when nothing has changed for rangers and necromancers until a xpac 3 years later.
The whole point of beta is to give feedback, and classes don’t stand in a vacuum so saying your necro can do gravediggers for x when other classes can do y for more and without the easily interrupted slow animations, people should submit their feedback.
Yet a Tempest and the Revenant hit in excess of 30 k + crits regularly. GS 2 and 3 are nearly useless and they do not fill up RS quick enough, in fact i found myself switching weapons just to build RS up enough to save my butt.
I think you are confused of the use of GS. It was designed to be an AoE LF weapon, and It serves that purpose quite well. In groups LF gain with the auto is fantastic. Dagger will always be the weapon of choice for single target LF gain, It will also always out dps GS auto. Our intended sustained AoE comes from RS.
Comparing Necro to the other classes is a foolish thing to do. Currently, in the state of pve there is heavy imbalance and in order for that to change it will take time. As for Rev, It’s still in beta so It doesn’t surprise me.
We’re finally getting endgame content, which means Anet now has to ACTUALLY balances, so let’s save opinions until we see what they end up doing.
We’ve been waiting for pve class balance for over 3 years in PvE. The LFG’s haven’t stopped shouting “WARRIOR/ELE/GUARD/THIEF ONLY” in that time.
So I don’t know what the hell you mean by waiting for them to do class balance when nothing has changed for rangers and necromancers until a xpac 3 years later.
The whole point of beta is to give feedback, and classes don’t stand in a vacuum so saying your necro can do gravediggers for x when other classes can do y for more and without the easily interrupted slow animations, people should submit their feedback.
GW2 has never actually had REAL challenging pve content. Because of that Anet hasn’t really cared much for balancing, hell… Pve content hasn’t been addressed in so long It’s often staggering.
Reaper is a push in the right direction, It actually feels like Anet is trying to change things, I think that has a lot to do with having a REAL endgame. Anyway, we don’t even know what this raiding will be like, it could very well change the meta.
I’m not saying it was right of them to ignore this for so long, hell… I’m very vocal about how poor the necro is, but we should wait and see before saying anything. This is a big turning point for GW2, for years the devs have been deciding where this game is going.
Server: Yak’s Bend | Main: Aliah Raheim
Necro main since beta, MMO fanatic and avid beta tester.
I just wish the last part of the AA chain would also be 1/2 seconds, or alternatively grant ~1 stack of stability or sth so it won’t be interrupted every friggin time. I really don’t think it should be slower than friggin’ HAMMERS, and if they still decide to do that, it should at least be “slow and unstoppable”. Well, gravedigger could need 1 stack of stab too, but that would make it way too strong, i get that.
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
GS is PvE worthy, not quite PvP worthy. Players don’t stand there and let you cleave on them with slow GS attacks. But npc’s do.
I’ll be honest, it seemed like all the super heavy animations they introduced is doing a decent job hiding at least Gravedigger decently well. There are so many animations emanating directly from the body that it often looks like a blob to me.
Doing the math I can say that a GS ‘rotation’ is beating dagger by about ~6.5%. Below 50% however, this increases to ~32% (which is pretty kitten huge). I can provide workings out if anyone asks.
I’m beginning to think the traditional shroud build that everyone is expecting to use on a zerker setup may not be the most optimal. Perhaps a Spite/Blood magic/Reaper could end up ahead, if not equally as viable (which I hope).
All I can say is what an amazing job Robert has done in tuning the GS so far. No nerfs or buffs are necessary at this point just more fluid animations.
GS while still needing a few small tweaks and other stuff is fine. I mean most of us are used to dagger/warhorn and staff weapon combinations and comparing everything to dagger dps. its like comparing an apple to an orange they are bolth fruit but fundamentally different in their own right. Play the GS learn its rotation and it will shine. So please put down the meta thinking this doesn’t look like it will scale with icebow either so it’ll be shunned by the closed minded idiots (metaheads) anyways right?
The 8k gravedigger (yes singular, ive only hit one so far in 5h) put a big smile on my face. So for pvp its pretty much safe to afk a game if u see someone wielding a GS.
But i ask poeple who know the PVE side more, is it same trash there? I heard the new mobs actually interupt, so rip necro and hi ele alt again?
Personally I would not take anyone’s word on something like that. I’d rather play it and see for myself
Well, I hit 12K on a gravedigger and was happy-shocked. I’ve never seen single hit crits like that on a necro before like that. I’d say that’s PvE enough for me .
screenie for the proofs, bottom left hand corner.
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Anvil Rock – Out manned, out gunned and no repair costs, so Leeroy up and dive in.
See you in Tyria.
I really like where reaper greatsword is at right now. Damage is great, skills are useful.
GS5 is a little finicky, but when it works it’s a blast. So I think reaper greatsword is a very viable weapon right now.
Great sword damage seems good enough right now but it needs more LF generation, particularly on Aa. The skills could also use a bit more range. Reaper’s low mobility means pulls and AoE range are crucial.
Tbh, as long as it does damage and you like the skills, then use it! That’s just my humble opinion :P
What he meant is that the average is much higher.
I was hitting Gravediggers for 16-18k on my berzerker necro.
And that’s because the bank account snapshot screwed me over, copying before I put all my ascended items on the bank.
If my necro had access to full ascended, I can see 18-20k being an average. On a fully buffed group with warrior banners and assassin’s presence, I can expect 22k+ Gravediggers.
There seems to be a bug in GS AA LF generation. On first AA, it generates 1% for the first two hits and 2% on the third but LF generation but sometime later it gets buggered and does not generate the 1%. When, exactly, this happens I cannot say, just that the 1% stops working.
I went to Cursed Shores for a comparison to Verdant Brink and started playing with the LF generation on GS. The great sword generally is as strong as, or stronger than, dagger but does not have as much sustain from LF or life siphon. Deaths, utilities like shouts, and traiting help improve LF generation so 1 vs many seems to work more in GS’s favor, provided there is enough of a crowd and enough death. The scaling feels functionally different than dagger. Great sword actually feels like it works a lot better with allies and in a crowd of enemies than dagger. Perhaps it simply needs help from allies to generate LF to help it keep doing maximum damage and sustain where dagger is closer to a solo experience.
One other thing I thought I saw was a difference in full LF when Reaper was selected versus when Reaper was not with the Reaper specialization being maybe 2K less. Can anyone confirm?
Great sword damage seems good enough right now but it needs more LF generation, particularly on Aa. The skills could also use a bit more range. Reaper’s low mobility means pulls and AoE range are crucial.
Not with how Blighter’s Boon works atm, if you’re willing to give up Reaper’s Onslaught. Let those Phalanx Strength Warriors and Revenants running Glint give you the LF generation your need
Nice to see that GS might be a thing in PvE (being a PvE’er myself), but I’m afraid I’m too hooked on my Dagger in mainhand… will I ever let go?
I think they buffed GS AA damage from the last BWE, making it the best AA chain and therefore the best direct DPS weapon necromancers have, Shroud notwithstanding. Dagger still has the superior LF generation though, and that’s before you even consider your offhand options.
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