Guild Wars 2

I think the GS is actually a really good weapon, except, the AA.

I’m doing quite well with the GS in unranked conquest and stronghold, and the way I see it, the GS is a ‘bookend’ weapon. Its the weapon I use before I go into DS, and the weapon I use when I get out.

Skill 3 is a great skill to use before getting into reapers shroud. Skill 4 is excellent for contesting conquest points. Skill 5 is a bit too slow to be a great skill but has decent utility with the pull.

Gravedigger can pretty much replace your AA when you have your opponent on the ropes.

This leaves my dagger warhorn as my AA weapon of choice. It is quite risky having no ranged weapon but I think the two weapon sets compliment each other nicely. I think if you consider the GS as less of a main combat weapon and more of a situational support weapon it is one of the best weapons we have.

The thing is, I feel the GS1 AA gives the weapon its weight and feel if you know what I mean. Popping into GS to only use its utilities and possibly get a gravedigger off feels kind of hollow.

Only 3/5 skills working is pretty bad imo. What’s worse is the two skills which are key to having fun with GS in PVP (AA and GS 5) are broken.

I was looking forward to chilling things with GS 1 AA and peeling enemies off my teammates with GS5 claws… eh well…

I love the GS look and the whole reaper feel, but in practice, when I’m honest with myself, PVP with GS isn’t that fun – even in team fights where it was supposed to shine even more.

The only reason I came back to GW2 was to pvp with a GS as a necro.

And I’m sure many felt the same way. I’m sure I’m not the only one who wanted to be a dark/death knight of sorts.

So yeah… whacking away in Reaper Shroud doesn’t really fulfill that fantasy…

I’m with you Anubris.8591. I came back to GW2 when I saw the pre-HoT Necro greatsword hype. Even made a brand new Necro and had him at 80 for the expansion. Then I joined a beta test and saw how sluggish and unreliable GS AA really is vs people. Compared to other GS auto hits its in slow-mo. The Guardian for example swings much faster but we must be fair and acknowledge his AAs also do lower damage. Perhaps we just have to take it as it is and adapt somehow because even if I do want a faster GS AA on my Reaper, they’d probably reduce the damage in order to speed it up.

I would rather have faster hits and smaller damage, as opposed to slower hits, high damage, gimmicky chill on 3rd chain swing…and not hitting people at all. Remember if we don’t land GS auto, we’re starved of lifeforce. Which is often the case with GS Reapers.

My idea for the GS AA would be (and in order to keep it slow and thematic)

The chill happens at the end of the 2nd attack, second attack cast time increased by another 1/4, and 3rd hit stays the same, but higher life force and damage.

Yes, I also think more chill would do the trick. Perhaps on all 3 hits ( 1s on the first, 2s on second, 2-3s on third ) or at least on two hits. We need something to tie in all 3 auto attacks regardless if its more speed or more chill, in order to create an actually smooth attack chain. Now it feels disconnected

GS in PvP?

I saw a DareDevil, then I press2 with expectation of seeing a big red number but unfortunately that DareDevil just landed me 4 Vault which is equal to my dead. So I just dug my own grave. Very name fitting there.

Siva Mira.3546:

GS in PvP?

I saw a DareDevil, then I press2 with expectation of seeing a big red number but unfortunately that DareDevil just landed me 4 Vault which is equal to my dead. So I just dug my own grave. Very name fitting there.

Haha yea probably not the best choice vs a fast, evading class.

The problems in my opinion:
-AA is to slow. If they separate the Chill between 2nd and 3rd strike might get better.
-GD need a little bid wider range 200-220. Also if it can hit twice instead of once. First hit when it swing to the right(lower damage then the 2nd) and again when the character spin, the execution strike. This way will deal at least
some damage even if the enemy dodge the rest.
-Grasping Darkness is still showing odd behaviour, the range is ok now.

Ofc GS for pvp is working . What are u guys think exactly? 9k and 10k crits are so sweet to pass . and no i dont agree with dagger GS build . Staff + GS all the way ! <3 P.s u know u can move around as u cast GD ? I didnt have any problem landing to any class lol

I really like the idea of putting chill on 2nd strike of chain. Might need to tweak numbers but that would probably help a lot with landing 3rd strike (for damage & LF generation). Maybe shave a little damage off of 2 just to compensate.

Another idea/thought I had was maybe to tack an attack speed increase for GS (Auto attack only) onto Reapers Onslaught. As of now it seems to be lacking a bit as a GM trait. I am not sure if 15% attack speed increase on GS Auto would be considered too strong but they can always tweak the numbers if they had to. I think it would help make it the best GM trait for damage builds while leaving Deathly Chill the choice for condi builds and Blighters Boon (hopefully fixed/unnerfed) as our sustain.

If anyone watched the recent hellseth vs leeto debate, beside top notch trash talk, the punchline went a little like this:

L: you dont understand, GS is gud.

H: Oh, yea? What can you with it? You press 4 then what?

L: Ugh um..

H: Yea you go deathshroud cz you cant anything else.

L: OK yea, youre right…But no, GS iz gud.

What if the greatsword had its executioner aspect reworked towards its auto attack. Say the auto gained more effectiveness towards under 50% health instead of grave digger.

Instead gravedigger loses the (no cooldown under 50%) and instead becomes the aoe skill of the weapon in truth. Gaining a wider range of effect or a double pulse type damage to make it less susceptible to blinds/aegis.

The idea would be so that the auto has a niche under 50% where as right now its just…gravedigger…gravedigger…gravedigger…gravedigger.

I really think the AA should be something like 1/2, 3/4, 1 second. Still gives it weight and a bit of build up, maybe the second hit could apply a small short cripple to make it hard for them to walk away from the 3rd aa

I think the auto is one of the skills that needs a minor PvP/PvE split. For PvP it definitely needs a range increase or an attack speed increase. It simply doesn’t hit. Even in Reaper duels no one is hitting the other with GS apart from a stray swing here and there.

But buffing the auto for PvE means dagger loses its place completely. So that’s not ideal. I really wish Anet would stop being afraid of splitting skills. So many problems would be solved by split skills.

I definitely think it needs to be better, but it doesn’t need DPS. Basically every GS in the game has a utility AA that is just used for filler, and I think the rest of GS is really solid (get rid of 2’s aftercast), all GS really needs is a slightly better AA, especially along the line of speeding it up a bit, since I think the rest of it, particularly the 2 skill, get across the idea of “slow but huge effects” well enough to not have a glacially slow AA.

Aktium.9506:

I think the auto is one of the skills that needs a minor PvP/PvE split. For PvP it definitely needs a range increase or an attack speed increase. It simply doesn’t hit. Even in Reaper duels no one is hitting the other with GS apart from a stray swing here and there.

But buffing the auto for PvE means dagger loses its place completely. So that’s not ideal. I really wish Anet would stop being afraid of splitting skills. So many problems would be solved by split skills.

Yup, nothing is more sad to see 2 Reapers fighting, both swinging GS, and neither are connecting. You realize just how bad it is, given that Reapers lack the blocks, evades, teleports, invulns, etc.. that more and more classes have.

GS is definitely held back by PvE and how easy it is to face tank npc’s that come grouped up to you, all ready to be cleaved down and gravedigger spammed.

How about if all 3 hits of the AA applied chill?

Bhawb.7408:

I definitely think it needs to be better, but it doesn’t need DPS. Basically every GS in the game has a utility AA that is just used for filler, and I think the rest of GS is really solid (get rid of 2’s aftercast), all GS really needs is a slightly better AA, especially along the line of speeding it up a bit, since I think the rest of it, particularly the 2 skill, get across the idea of “slow but huge effects” well enough to not have a glacially slow AA.

I agree that that AA doesn’t need a damage increase in the sense that the numbers shouldn’t be changed. But making it easier to land will increase effective damage in PVP. And I think that’s okay.

More importantly, it would make playing GS so much more fun.

You cant improve its dps. Greatsword auto is equal to dagger auto right now. Dagger is 0.01 coeff better and has the advantage of more reliable hits and more life steal procs. But greatsword has chill which when coupled with Deathly Chill and the assumption that you dont interrupt yourself too much it comes out on top by quite a big margin.

So the only solution would be to reduce damage but improve speed. But i doubt the devs will do that.

spoj.9672:

So the only solution would be to reduce damage but improve speed. But i doubt the devs will do that.

That’s pretty much what we need in PvP. Otherwise you can put Godmode on the 3rd swing and insta death touch players, and it still won’t see usage. It’s just so hard to even connect just 1 hit at the current speed.

GS is fun and all but I would like to reliably generate LF while using it and not just use it for utility’s sake.

its AA doesnt need to be so powerful to force dodges…just need a usable AA

Do people really run around AAing each other in PvP that frequently, and is 5% LF over the course of 2.5ish seconds really generating you reliable LF from melee range? I feel like I very rarely AA unless it’s Scepter, and on a rare occasion Dagger. I’ll AA in DS/RS, but I’ve happily ignored AAs for other weapons without thinking the weapon is totally unviable in PvP.

The facts with GS in PvP:
- very slow life force regeneration (sluggish AA speed)
- slow AA makes it unreliable to use because it forces you to be AAing for way longer in the middle of a fight in normal form… (too risky and may result in insta death)
- not fun when you can’t hit any moving players with half a brain due to above reasons

Solution? Increase GS AA speed and reduce its damage. Slow casting speed/High damage of Gravedigger has already define the uniqueness of Reaper’s GS to other profession’s GS, no need apply this concept it for our AA as well.

TLDR: GS as of now is not a viable alternative weapon choice for high level PvP due to the sluggish nature of its AA.

Do mediguards autoattack with their GS?

Is mediguard GS “unviable”?

Stop trying to auto-attack with GS and you’ll find that it’s great.

Yeah if necro has taught me anything, it’s that shroud is all the damage and sustain and the weapon skills might as well be utilities designed to help use get into shroud.

While warhorn has overall better utility, as does staff, nightfall and grasping darkness are strong enough in their own right to make GS worth using.

While you may think it’s cool to talk down on other players and tell people “don’t use GS auto attack because x x x x”, you do realize we’re all necros/reapers and some of us are trying to get Greatsword to become better and more viable.

So next time you decide to be cool and post against the idea of increasing GS auto speed, please think twice before posting. Thanks. Just because you don’t use it for X reasons, it doesn’t mean GS shouldn’t be better for those that do want GS to become better.

Bhawb.7408:

I think the rest of it, particularly the 2 skill, get across the idea of “slow but huge effects” well enough to not have a glacially slow AA.

Badump Tss

gavyne.6847:

I would rather have faster hits and smaller damage, as opposed to slower hits, high damage, gimmicky chill on 3rd chain swing…and not hitting people at all. Remember if we don’t land GS auto, we’re starved of lifeforce. Which is often the case with GS Reapers.

Death Spiral isn’t bad for LF gain. But as a whole, GS feels quite slow at generating LF. Wish the trait for it remedied that a bit similar to how staff’s LF gen becomes WAY better traited.

gavyne.6847:

While you may think it’s cool to talk down on other players and tell people “don’t use GS auto attack because x x x x”, you do realize we’re all necros/reapers and some of us are trying to get Greatsword to become better and more viable.

So next time you decide to be cool and post against the idea of increasing GS auto speed, please think twice before posting. Thanks. Just because you don’t use it for X reasons, it doesn’t mean GS shouldn’t be better for those that do want GS to become better.

I can’t help but get the impression you’re telling people to not disagree with you. Should we always agree with all ideas that make everything better, despite it maybe not being necessary?

I was sincerely wondering how often people run around trying to auto in melee as a Necromancer, outside of shroud. Even with Dagger I found I rarely had a good opportunity for it personally, and it was never my main source of LF generation. With GS #3 potentially getting 12% LF on a target, I’m surprised to hear the auto is considered the way to generate.

It’s not about disagreeing. If you somehow had a magical way to hit people with GS auto, and explained it, I could understand and consider it. But you along with others are simply telling Reapers to not use GS auto because it’s THAT BAD. And you see something wrong with others asking for GS auto improvements to make the weapon more viable?

Makes no sense.

I hardly ever use Staff auto. I basically never used Axe auto in PvP when I used Axe. I hardly ever used Dagger auto, besides a few special cases. I’ll situationally use GS auto.

I’m arguing that nothing with GS is different from other weapons for me, so I’m trying to understand your playstyle, especially for PvP. Facing up against many classes in an auto-battle outside of Shroud sounds like a ticket to downed state, and if they are blowing dodges on your autos, that just means you can more easily land other abilities right after they dodge, like a GS #5 into GS #2 or something.

I’m just trying to understand why you’re spamming autos on an advertised slow weapon.

Cogbyrn.7283:

I’m just trying to understand why you’re spamming autos on an advertised slow weapon.

Maybe because every other attack on GS has a long cooldown? Perhaps because auto is the only chill application on GS, which supposedly is a key aspect of Reapers? Maybe because GS 5 is extremely unreliable, and GS 3 has such short range, and GS 4 is so painfully obvious that nobody stands in it, and GS 2 don’t land on anybody with a pulse.

You can’t compare reasons for using GS auto to Dagger auto, because people use different weapons for different things. Dagger auto is also used for siphons, and it’s advertised as reliable, fast damage. Fast swings work in a fast action paced game with active dodges. Slow swings just don’t work well. We, are trying to beg Robert Gee to fix that so GS can be more viable in PvP.

I was all for GS over the beta weekends. But now it’s obvious other elite specs got buffed, people know how to play their new builds better, and people definitely have learned Reaper moves. Trying to land slow attacks such as GS1, 2, Reaper Shroud 5, etc.. are harder and harder to do. People also have learned not to stand in the growing circle field. I still love Reaper, but some thing’s gotta change if GS is to be made viable in PvP.

If some silly reaper was chasing me around with his GS, trying to AA me to death, I would promptly turn around and put him on his as lol.

Cogbyrn.7283:

I’m just trying to understand why you’re spamming autos on an advertised slow weapon.

Most skills have a situational use, sometimes all that is left to get another player down before they manage to disengage and heal up is a tiny sliver and to get him there you put more or less everything you have on cooldown. Sometimes you just need some quick LF before others show up to the fight so you don’t die instantly. And there’s no need to use an actual dodge to avoid GS auto, you only need to sidestep or backpedal and it will miss.

I’m trying to understand why you aren’t using autos. Do you just sit in the back staring intently at the enemy until your team mates get them low enough that you can soar in like a little fairy and do a Gravedigger on them? Autos are meant to be a reliable source of pressure, either condi based or power based. As of right now they’re anything but. Anet advertised the skill being slow because it put Chill on the enemy but man, But since I started playing Reaper in the BWEs I’ve never gone “I really wanna put some Chill on that guy, I better use GS 1 on him”.

That said I really do like GS. But I feel like I would be better off just running dagger. As good as Nightfall is, a single skill on a 25s cooldown can’t viably carry the entire set.

GS #1 isn’t the only source of chill. GS #5 chills as well, as long as it hits (even if it doesn’t pull because of whatever bugness). GS #3 has a longer range than GS #1, and you’ll have to combo abilities to keep someone in GS #4. Even if you don’t you create several seconds of space, which in PvP can buy you key time. You can’t just run up and land GS #2 on anyone watching their screen, sure, but if someone dodges your really short cooldown nuke, that means they have 1 fewer dodge than before, which matters for a class with slow casts. If anything, them dodging #2 is fine, and you can probably even use #2 to reliably sheathe the ability, forcing a dodge without even forcing your full cooldown to switch into a different ability/combo.

As far as why I don’t use autos much, it’s because often, weapon abilities have been set-up to DS spike for me. Dagger #3 into Focus #4 into DS #1s with a DS #3 to keep the CC chain going when the immob is about to run out. In WvW with condition duration being broken, I would throw a Dagger auto chain in after #3 for the additional damage, but otherwise I’d only really use it to man-up against a Thief when I was at a comfortable health level and they were keen on only using dagger against me while revealed.

Part of it is because I switch weapons frequently. Maybe it’s because I started as a Warrior who couldn’t give up Fast Hands, but I’m always switching weapons and taking advantage of what isn’t on cooldown on the weapons. If GS goes on CD with 3 – 5, I’m in Staff applying more chill, clearing condis, fearing. Once those tools are on CD I’m back in GS. Throw RS into the mix, and my 2 – 5 abilities are regularly off of cooldown in all 3 ability sets. I also go into Shroud almost on cooldown (though I should work on managing shroud-procs for sigils to get more out of my Energy sigils), so that’s more time for GS abilities to cool down without using GS #1.

I’ll use Shroud #1 for no-cooldown pressure, but almost never other autos. I hardly ever used autos on my Warrior, because there was always something else I could be doing. The only reliable source of pressure I’ve seen on an auto for Necro is Scepter, and I actually have to force myself to remember to auto, because I’m so used to not worrying about it. Dagger autos aren’t bad, but they are still very short range, so you’ll probably only get 1 cycle in before they backpedal or sidestep out of range. Otherwise, I don’t see a difference really, so long as you are able to use your mouse to continually face a target.

GS #1 may apply chill, and maybe it should be a reliable source of chill. What if they extended the 3rd hit into a cone in front of the Necro at some larger distance, like 300 – 400? Sure it’s still 1 second, but it’s easier to land and forces a dodge if the enemy doesn’t want to take the chill/damage.

I’m not sure a faster AA would even really solve the problem, unless it was Dagger-fast.

Cogbyrn.7283:

I hardly ever use Staff auto. I basically never used Axe auto in PvP when I used Axe. I hardly ever used Dagger auto, besides a few special cases. I’ll situationally use GS auto.

I’m arguing that nothing with GS is different from other weapons for me, so I’m trying to understand your playstyle, especially for PvP. Facing up against many classes in an auto-battle outside of Shroud sounds like a ticket to downed state, and if they are blowing dodges on your autos, that just means you can more easily land other abilities right after they dodge, like a GS #5 into GS #2 or something.

I’m just trying to understand why you’re spamming autos on an advertised slow weapon.

Because GS auto has chill and chill is tied to class mechanics and class theme.

Also GS auto isn’t even blocked or dodged. It being so slow causes enemies to move out of range before the chain even completes.

Which causes the chain to RESET.

So no, you’re not forcing anyone to dodge or block with GS auto. They just move out of the way.

Regarding GS 5, its even worse than GS auto. There’s no ground targeting and the skill clips with terrain. Good luck getting that to connect ever in pvp.

So what you’re left with is a weapon that’s built around chill application never being able to land a chill. EVER. In PVP.

Funny thing about GS 2 gravedigger is that I cast it a few yards before coming into attack range so the twirl completes right when I’m closed into an enemy. Result is that I can sometimes land it when people aren’t pay attention.

It’s kind of bonkers that I have better luck landing a slow wind-up finishing move than an auto attack chain. Great…

Last thing, GS auto serves an important cleave damage role (hits 3). If it’s broken like it is now, I might as well run dagger and hit 2 targets with auto.

I just think it’s odd you need STAFF for every build to sustain LF.

Most of the time when I’m out of LF I just spam staff skills to build up LF then use shroud again, just because it’s easy to hit and it has some AoE pressure effect plus CC.

GS is mostly viable for abusing low hp and downed enemies or just #4 for finishing. #5 doesn’t seem to work in most cases either ppl always have stability or it just doesn’t hit don’t know exactly what’s wrong with it, but I don’t mind because #2 is awesome and I’ve staff and shroud for everything else.

Cogbyrn.7283:

GS #1 isn’t the only source of chill. GS #5 chills as well, as long as it hits (even if it doesn’t pull because of whatever bugness). GS #3 has a longer range than GS #1, and you’ll have to combo abilities to keep someone in GS #4. Even if you don’t you create several seconds of space, which in PvP can buy you key time. You can’t just run up and land GS #2 on anyone watching their screen, sure, but if someone dodges your really short cooldown nuke, that means they have 1 fewer dodge than before, which matters for a class with slow casts. If anything, them dodging #2 is fine, and you can probably even use #2 to reliably sheathe the ability, forcing a dodge without even forcing your full cooldown to switch into a different ability/combo.

As far as why I don’t use autos much, it’s because often, weapon abilities have been set-up to DS spike for me. Dagger #3 into Focus #4 into DS #1s with a DS #3 to keep the CC chain going when the immob is about to run out. In WvW with condition duration being broken, I would throw a Dagger auto chain in after #3 for the additional damage, but otherwise I’d only really use it to man-up against a Thief when I was at a comfortable health level and they were keen on only using dagger against me while revealed.

Part of it is because I switch weapons frequently. Maybe it’s because I started as a Warrior who couldn’t give up Fast Hands, but I’m always switching weapons and taking advantage of what isn’t on cooldown on the weapons. If GS goes on CD with 3 – 5, I’m in Staff applying more chill, clearing condis, fearing. Once those tools are on CD I’m back in GS. Throw RS into the mix, and my 2 – 5 abilities are regularly off of cooldown in all 3 ability sets. I also go into Shroud almost on cooldown (though I should work on managing shroud-procs for sigils to get more out of my Energy sigils), so that’s more time for GS abilities to cool down without using GS #1.

I’ll use Shroud #1 for no-cooldown pressure, but almost never other autos. I hardly ever used autos on my Warrior, because there was always something else I could be doing. The only reliable source of pressure I’ve seen on an auto for Necro is Scepter, and I actually have to force myself to remember to auto, because I’m so used to not worrying about it. Dagger autos aren’t bad, but they are still very short range, so you’ll probably only get 1 cycle in before they backpedal or sidestep out of range. Otherwise, I don’t see a difference really, so long as you are able to use your mouse to continually face a target.

GS #1 may apply chill, and maybe it should be a reliable source of chill. What if they extended the 3rd hit into a cone in front of the Necro at some larger distance, like 300 – 400? Sure it’s still 1 second, but it’s easier to land and forces a dodge if the enemy doesn’t want to take the chill/damage.

I’m not sure a faster AA would even really solve the problem, unless it was Dagger-fast.

I think I made that same suggestion in another thread. Give GS auto third hit a cone aoe. Or make it castable without target so the whole chain doesn’t reset when chasing enemies who slip in and out of range.

At least that way I can do the first two hits, and if it misses, I can use stab or something else to try to close the gap and land the last hit.

I slightly agree with the OP. I think the 3 is much worse than the 1, but the 1 being good would make that not matter.

I’ve pvp’d a ton on necro since HoT and the 2, 4, 5 are actually really good. Sigil of int → weapon swap GS is extremely potent for 5→2 or just 2 off of CttB or RS 5. Soldier’s necro crits 5-7k on a GS swap with this.

4 and 5 are both solid, although the cooldown on 5 is a bit brutal. comboing the 5 onto 1-2 players into your own aoe or a DH’s can easily assure kills. The blind well is never not good.

1 and 3 are both bad, and it’s not much to do with damage. The big problem is life force regen. This one issue is why dagger /x is so much better. Spvp is blind-spam city right now, and the dagger 1 cuts right through that with much higher attack rate which translates into reliable lifeforce and pressure.

The GS skill 1, 2, and 5 have ranges that are too low.
GS 1 and 2 should be 250 or so and GS 5 should be 900.

Cogbyrn.7283:

GS #1 isn’t the only source of chill. GS #5 chills as well, as long as it hits (even if it doesn’t pull because of whatever bugness).

Was late when I posted, I didn’t mean GS1 is the only source of chill, I meant the only source of chill not on a long cooldown timer that misses all the time on moving targets. Because GS 5 is so unreliable and has such a long cd, devs advertised GS auto as our “reliable” source of chill.

In fact chill on GS auto was their reason for holding GS auto back. But yet rarely do you ever get to apply the chill because you just don’t connect with GS auto much at all. I think most people would rather GS auto either have faster attacks or longer range.

Also as I said in the BWE3 thread awhile back. The design philosophy of Reapers is to keep people near us, to pull people to us. So GS 5 pull has to be reliable, but at the moment it just isn’t. Even when the pull triggers, often players are pulled down rather than to you. Leaving you again in a distance disadvantage. They need to either make GS 5 reliable, or to compensate give us faster and/or longer GS auto attacks.