Guild Wars 2

I’ve been trying to find the best set up for a condition reaper. There was a number of new options introduced with the expansion that give some interesting options.

What i’ve found so far is the following(PvE only):

Viper > Sinister > Rabid

The extra condition duration always trumps condition damage up to the cap (100%).

Calculations: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Sinister-vs-Viper/

For a full ascended set (armor/weapons/trinkets) you gain 40% condition duration. Combined with 30% from food/utilities gives you 70% base condition duration. Bleed and chill get 20% from traits, bringing them to 90%.

I run bursting/malice on scepter/dagger to bring that up to 100% bleed/chill, and 80% all other conditions.

The more confusing choice is for runes. There are a number of different options:

1. Undead
2. Afflicted
3. Berserker
4. Thorns
5. ???

Afflicted was what I was previously using as it allowed me to cap bleed and gain extra poison duration. However bleed is already capped with Viper’s gear now so that is wasted. There is also no one stand out condition anymore on reaper. Bleed is the standard condition for necro, but reaper is able to get strong damage from bleed, poison, burn, torment, and chill, with the best rotations having a decent amount of each.

Unfortunately everything is broken right now. It also doesn’t seem like Anet is in a hurry to fix anything either. Berserker 6th rune bonus doesn’t work at all. Thorns wasn’t working for me either. Viper doesn’t actually apply the condition duration.

Someone can try and do the math for those runes, but i’d like to actually test them out. Hopefully all this stuff gets fixed soon.

Viper works. Still no Ascended Viper trinkets though.

I feel like your post contains everything needed to justify using Nightmare runes: Condition duration trumps other stats until cap, and the lack of focus on a specific condition. Nightmare runes have flat 15% increased duration, which will bring up general condi duration to 95%. It seems like a huge disservice to not min-max for dhuumfire and poison.

The patch yesterday did indeed fix viper stats, so that’s good.

I think nightmare may actually be a perfect set of runes for this build. 95% of all conditions, plus fear and chill if you happen to get hit.

There is an amulet rewarded for finishing chapter 4 story achievements. I’m hoping that will let me choose viper stats. For the time being i’m using sinister. I hope they introduce these in the upcoming patches or in raids.

Isn’t it always advantagous to run nightmare x4 + trapper x2 and switch out the excess duration with sinister gear? Stat wise the lost 100 condition duration from not running a full set, is lower then the gained condition duration from trapper since it is worth 150 expertise. The loss in power is also not a problem since our condition builds (outside dhuumfire reapers) have a terrible power scaling. Plus we gain a returnin condition damage from the investment in precision thanks to target the weak.

It still won’t solve the question if you need to invest beyond 80% condition duration or not though.

Tim.6450:

Isn’t it always advantagous to run nightmare x4 + trapper x2 and switch out the excess duration with sinister gear? Stat wise the lost 100 condition duration from not running a full set, is lower then the gained condition duration from trapper since it is worth 150 expertise. The loss in power is also not a problem since our condition builds (outside dhuumfire reapers) have a terrible power scaling. Plus we gain a returnin condition damage from the investment in precision thanks to target the weak.

It still won’t solve the question if you need to invest beyond 80% condition duration or not though.

Interesting question.

Hi!

Does anyone of a screenshot or video of condimancer’s condition damage? I am considering switching to a condition build instead of my valk/cav power reaper setup.

Also, if i do not have sinister trinkets but used rabid instead. Will i suffer heavy loss in damage?

EDIT: btw, whats the 2 different weapon sets to be used as a condimancer?

I used to play condition only and than switched to power….

I did not tested condition reaper yet, just power… but I had a nice meeting with a cond reaper in wvw and now I really think going back to condition, pretty strong.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

The patch yesterday did indeed fix viper stats, so that’s good.

I think nightmare may actually be a perfect set of runes for this build. 95% of all conditions, plus fear and chill if you happen to get hit.

There is an amulet rewarded for finishing chapter 4 story achievements. I’m hoping that will let me choose viper stats. For the time being i’m using sinister. I hope they introduce these in the upcoming patches or in raids.

Is it really fixed?
If so I’m making dat viper gear right now!

BTW,
does anyone know if Lingering Curse trait goes beyond 100% condi duration cap?

removesoul.9670:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

The patch yesterday did indeed fix viper stats, so that’s good.

I think nightmare may actually be a perfect set of runes for this build. 95% of all conditions, plus fear and chill if you happen to get hit.

There is an amulet rewarded for finishing chapter 4 story achievements. I’m hoping that will let me choose viper stats. For the time being i’m using sinister. I hope they introduce these in the upcoming patches or in raids.

Is it really fixed?
If so I’m making dat viper gear right now!

BTW,
does anyone know if Lingering Curse trait goes beyond 100% condi duration cap?

It does. It applies to base duration.

So for example Scepter Poison AA lasts 6 seconds. The trait increase that by 50% to 9 seconds and if you had 100% poison duration that 9 would be increased to 18 seconds.

With its quick attack speed its just about the best condi weapon in the game. The #2 and #3 skill are great as well.

What is the build for the vipers setup?

Sleyer.7516:

What is the build for the vipers setup?

Its a bit tricky at the moment due to no Viper’s jewellery but I have been experimenting with a glass cannon Necro using Spite/Curses/Reaper. It’s basically a Scepter condition build that weapon swaps offhands to maintain high Chill uptime.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRArd7YjM0Q1N2cDe3A7NWwFs4rYXcMCNACAtgoNQHYEA-TByCABNqEEgDCgCnAAnV+R1+AhvwAyPBQ/Azq/QKgFVWB-e

Simply AA and pop #2, #3 and utilities on CD. Conditions might be an issue but you have flexibility in the utilities and heals. The 40% food is fine because half of that is being used as the Viper’s expertise.

In groups where might isn’t an issue can grab Decimate instead.

Once full Viper stuff is out grab that. There is a bit of overcap but you can switch out some Viper pieces for Sinister for that.

This is what i’m currently using and i’m quite happy with it now.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNArYGjc0QzNWdDe3YpYwi7hDxkIVTYKcriCADgEAA-ThyFAB7r+jwK/29BAg0+AVvwAvnAg11HcwRAAgDBwVKBDAcAsbdr7uBGf8xHf8xb3d3d3d3tUALqsC-e

2100 condition damage
88% condition duration (100% bleed/chill)
2000 Power
41% crit

The rotation is fairly complicated, and I am still fine tuning it. Right now it goes:

Scepter 2→dagger 5→CPC→Bip→Scepter 3→Dagger 4→Swap to staff→ Staff 2-5→RS 4→RS 5 → RS 1(x6) →Staff 2→ Scepter 1 (x3) →repeat.

Fill in scepter 1 while waiting for CD’s on repeated rotation. It’s a work in progress but seems to give pretty good damage. During burst phases it is almost always better to just spam RS1. The vuln application, high burn and high direct damage is very nice for burn phases, but it can not be sustained since a single hit will knock you out of RS.

New information I read on the forums. The ascended necklace you get awarded for completing all achievements in chapter 4 of the HoT story has Viper as one of it’s selectable stats.

By all accounts its not super hard either. So if your are dying for at least one piece of Ascended Viper jewellery you can get it.

If you use vipers then berserker runes are best. Assuming they work. If sinister then you want 5 nightmare runes and 1 antitoxin.

spoj.9672:

If you use vipers then berserker runes are best. Assuming they work. If sinister then you want 5 nightmare runes and 1 antitoxin.

Do they work? I tried them and they did not change my condition damage stat.

But yes once they release ascended viper trinkets then it may be better to use berserker runes and viper trinkets.

Nightmare + Trapper runes give a total of 25% condition duration. this is equivalent to 375 stat points. Plus you get +100 condition damage from 4/2 nightmare/trapper. That is a total of 475 stat points from the runes. Berserker runes (when working) give a total of 275 + 5% damage and 5% condition damage. That is roughly +100 condition damage and +100 power. So they give similar stats it seems.

Since viper gives more stats than sinister it should indeed be a net increase in power to take Berserker runes with Viper trinkets as opposed to nightmare/trapper runes with sinister trinkets.

Unfortunately right now the only viper trinket you can get is the amulet. Hopefully they release more soon.

The 5% modifier wont show an increase in stats because its not a 5% stat increase. Its a 5% damage modifier. Like bursting and force.

spoj.9672:

The 5% modifier wont show an increase in stats because its not a 5% stat increase. Its a 5% damage modifier. Like bursting and force.

Sigil of bursting is a stat increase.

If someone is slotting their stuff with Berserker runes, can you please only slot 5 at first and test direct damage and condi damage before adding that last one to see if and how the set bonus works? It didn’t occur to me in my excitement. I’m torn between trappers/nightmare and berserker runes.

What condi duration can you hit with full vipers + consumables? (30% extra from utility/food)

Been using full viper setup for 1 day now and its indeed awesome. When i say full im lying, but almost full. Using Rabid Back, Sinister Amulet, 1 sinister ring, 1 sinister accessory. 1 ring and 1 accessory is exotic viper with exquisite black diamond.
But the rest is ascended Viper.

With 4 nightmare + 2 trapper + malice + bursting it gives

63.13% condi duration
1633 condi dmg
2050 power
38.71% crit chance

This is without any food or traits boosting duration/condi dmg. So you can get +20% to bleed and chill + 50% to scepter + 20/25% from food + 10% from crystal. Overkill!
And ofc + 170-200 condi dmg from food + 150 for scepter if using curses.

Now to figure out what is best Spite vs Curses line. Reaper and Soul Reaping is kinda locked in but not sure for the 3rd line, im guessing it comes down to circumstances which line is better. Any input on Spite vs Curses would be appreciated

What’s great about necro and now with viper’s gear is I think build options are very flexible depending on situations. I would argue that hybrid is the way to play, which gives us tons of options regarding weapon and specialization setups.

I typically drop reaper for blood magic on major meta events, because transfusion and fast rezzes are really really good at saving lives (when it decides to target the downed guys, anyway). I guess you could swap out another spec but I find it hard to resist using my RS4 for DPS when I’m reaper, and plus, this gives us some solid ranged options, when that’s often a liability.

IDK, I just find Viper’s very attractive for supporting a flexible playstyle, though I’ve kept my dagger/warhorn/greatsword zerkers.

If you’re deciding between bursting and malice, I think malice is a superior choice on multiple levels. 10% condi duration is probably going to be worth more than 6% condi damage, and regarding a hybrid playstyle, if you swap to a power weapon set, you KEEP your existing condis durations, the same doesn’t hold true for bursting (if you swap sets and lower your condi damage, the damage of your dots is adjusted immediately). That said, it still might be preferable to have all weapons, even your power ones vipers stats in a hybrid build. IDK.

It’s so hard to tell without good tools for measuring damage.

Mohagi.2738:

Now to figure out what is best Spite vs Curses line. Reaper and Soul Reaping is kinda locked in but not sure for the 3rd line, im guessing it comes down to circumstances which line is better. Any input on Spite vs Curses would be appreciated

I guess for “regular content” Spite is probably best in conjunction with Soul Reaping and Dhuumfire because of RS #1’s good direct damage (more of a hybrid approach if you will). In instances where mobs have insanely high toughness values, such as high lvl fractals, Curses + Spite will probably win out. I personally would never drop Spite, it is just to good to give up imo.

Mohagi.2738:

Been using full viper setup for 1 day now and its indeed awesome. When i say full im lying, but almost full. Using Rabid Back, Sinister Amulet, 1 sinister ring, 1 sinister accessory. 1 ring and 1 accessory is exotic viper with exquisite black diamond.
But the rest is ascended Viper.

With 4 nightmare + 2 trapper + malice + bursting it gives

63.13% condi duration
1633 condi dmg
2050 power
38.71% crit chance

This is without any food or traits boosting duration/condi dmg. So you can get +20% to bleed and chill + 50% to scepter + 20/25% from food + 10% from crystal. Overkill!
And ofc + 170-200 condi dmg from food + 150 for scepter if using curses.

Now to figure out what is best Spite vs Curses line. Reaper and Soul Reaping is kinda locked in but not sure for the 3rd line, im guessing it comes down to circumstances which line is better. Any input on Spite vs Curses would be appreciated

Imo, spite for solo so you can be self suficient and curses for group content where the gorup can provide stuffs like might.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

This is what i’m currently using and i’m quite happy with it now.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNArYGjc0QzNWdDe3YpYwi7hDxkIVTYKcriCADgEAA-ThyFAB7r+jwK/29BAg0+AVvwAvnAg11HcwRAAgDBwVKBDAcAsbdr7uBGf8xHf8xb3d3d3d3tUALqsC-e

2100 condition damage
88% condition duration (100% bleed/chill)
2000 Power
41% crit

The rotation is fairly complicated, and I am still fine tuning it. Right now it goes:

Scepter 2->dagger 5->CPC->Bip->Scepter 3->Dagger 4->Swap to stafkittentaff 2-5->RS 4->RS 5 -> RS 1(x6) ->Staff 2-> Scepter 1 (x3) ->repeat.

Fill in scepter 1 while waiting for CD’s on repeated rotation. It’s a work in progress but seems to give pretty good damage. During burst phases it is almost always better to just spam RS1. The vuln application, high burn and high direct damage is very nice for burn phases, but it can not be sustained since a single hit will knock you out of RS.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNArYGjc0QzNWdDe34oYokF9Qf00mYKu1YAMAJAA-TRyFAB7+AA49EAwkyPb2fYR1fO4IAAwhAwN9BXpEMAwBwu1tu7Gwu7u7u7ubpA6btF-e

I run something like this.
Rabid gear with Undead runes.

The undead runes convert toughness to condi damage. Plus The tuning crystals also add to condi damage. Plus while in combat you get another small boost through Corrupter’s Fervor.

I can get average 3.5k bleeds, as well as 600-800 poison. If you use epidemic (which is a must in Dragons Stand) you can push that even higher. Just last night I hit 12k burning, 5k bleeds and 3k poison just from epidemic alone.

Im really into trying Viper gear and I will start to craft exotics (and change stats for ascended) soon. But I dont know what I should do with my Rabid acc. I am able to only buy two acc for bandit crests, I doubt that I will do any of Living Story achievements in near future. Is mix of 2 Sinister and 4 Rabid acc a good idea? I will loose some power but gain a little bit more of crit chance to trigger bleedings. However with full Vipers gear I will still be able to cap 100% condition duration. (Thats what I got for not doing achivs when SW was the only new map).

People overhype the spite line. Spite is only good for solo play, it loses all advantage in group play. I would say spite is a hindrance in group play.

The only thing spite does is provide insane self might and vuln. This is amazing for solo play because you see a nearly instant 50% damage boost. However in group play you should already be at full might and vuln so you see a 0% damage boost. I found in a solo situation taking spite over curses gave me ~5% more dps. (7000dps for curses, about 7300 for spite). However if curses is supplied 25 might and vuln from the group it skyrockets to ~10k dps while spite stays exactly where it was since it already had full buffs.

Personally i’ll be running Curses/SR/Reaper in raids.

Hmm, I don’t think this should be about Spite vs. Curses, it should be about Curses vs. SR.

The reason why I personally don’t pick Curses and SR together is that I either focus on maxing out Burns, which means I have to pick Reaper’s Onslaught, Vital Persistence and ofc Dhuumfire and camp Shroud for as long as possible, OR I focus on maxing out Scepter conditions (mainly Bleeds + a bit of Torment, Poison) and Chills, which means I have to pick Lingering Curse and Deathly Chill (ofc).

To me it is basically a Shroud build vs. Non-Shroud build discussion.

If you go for Burns and pick SR, you want to get as many Shroud autos in for as long as possible. This favors Spite as the third line imo, because of Shroud #1’s decent direct damage and the reduced time you actually spend on your Scepter/x set.
If you go for Scepter condis + Chill and pick Curses, Spite isn’t necessarily favored over SR, but because you can’t really pick Reaper’s Onslaught because of Deathly Chill, Dhuumfire looses a lot of value. Therefore I think Spite is the better choice as the third line here as well. Depending on the situation it offers additional Chills, boon corruption + Signet might (which works nice with Plague Sending if a lot of condis are thrown at you), or just flat personal damage increase which is never useless.

So, the two condi focused builds I suggest running are:

• Spite/SR/Reaper with focus on Dhuumfire – hybrid Shroud build
• Spite/Curses/Reaper with focus on Scepter conditions and Chill – more condi management/boon corruption heavy Non-Shroud build

I’m currently running the SR dhuumfire build in the open world (new map meta events mostly) and plan on testing the latter in +70 fractals once I find the motivation to actually progress my fractal level that far =P

The reason I run Dhuumfire is actually because of deathly chill.

Scepter/Dagger dpesn’t really have any chill application. You can get 1s of chill from dagger 4 if you take chilling darkness, but that’s about it. This means to get good chill you need to swap to staff. So you swap to staff and spam 2-5. This gives you 10s of chill and takes 2s to apply. But now you have 7s of waiting for weapon swap to recharge. Best option is to go into RS and hit RS 4 and RS 5 to get an extra 5s of chill. Now you are left with 3s. AA on staff is useless so you use AA on RS instead. 3s is enough to get 4-5 stacks of burn up on the target if you took SR. Plus if you are low on health and are waiting for your heal to come off CD you can very very quickly ramp up damage with RS if you have burn, meaning that you won’t be losing dps just because you are forced into shroud.

Basically I like to think of SR/Curses/Reaper to be a more steady dps option. I can continue high dps in all situations. My normal rotation gives me something like 3k bleed, 2k poison, 2k torment, 2k burn, 1k chill. Each individual condition is pretty low intensity, but I can apply a lot of different conditions and keep my health and LF up by rotating in and out of them.

I don’t really consider damaging Chills to be the main selling point of the Spite/Curses/Reaper build I mentioned. It really is just the icing (möhöhöhö) on the cake. I expressed my thoughts on Deathly Chill in two other threads already and I think it is still a rather lacklustered trait in fact. I really only pick it because the Reaper line is lacking a better GM trait option for Non-Shroud condi builds. Reaper’s Onslaught just isn’t good without SR and BB isn’t needed very much in PvE right now in general imo.

That being said, I’m not trying to say that you absolutely can’t or shouldn’t go SR/Curses/Reaper if you prefer that (afaik ppl often pick this combination in PvP, right?), I just wanted to explain why I personally opt not to do so =)

Skoigoth.9238:

I don’t really consider damaging Chills to be the main selling point of the Spite/Curses/Reaper build I mentioned. It really is just the icing (möhöhöhö) on the cake. I expressed my thoughts on Deathly Chill in two other threads already and I think it is still a rather lacklustered trait in fact. I really only pick it because the Reaper line is lacking a better GM trait option for Non-Shroud condi builds. Reaper’s Onslaught just isn’t good without SR and BB isn’t needed very much in PvE right now in general imo.

That being said, I’m not trying to say that you absolutely can’t or shouldn’t go SR/Curses/Reaper if you prefer that (afaik ppl often pick this combination in PvP, right?), I just wanted to explain why I personally opt not to do so =)

Once we have a better idea of what raids are like I hope to do some testing between the different builds. Sustain Vs DPS Vs Burst.

I think the highest dps build is currently a maxxed out burn build. It has high direct and burn damage. The problem of course is sustain. If you take a big hit your dps drops down to almost nothing even if you are still alive.

I’m still hoping they introduce some sort of personal dps meter so these things can actually be tested out a little better.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I think the highest dps build is currently a maxxed out burn build. It has high direct and burn damage. The problem of course is sustain. If you take a big hit your dps drops down to almost nothing even if you are still alive.

As I’m not a math-person (I just test things and see if it works out for me) I can’t really comment on the “highest DPS build” part of your post, but, yeah, you are definitely right about the fact that getting hit in Shroud in a Dhuumfire build kinda equals DPS loss (getting hit > less lifeforce > less time in Shroud > less sustained Burning), which is a weakness of pretty much every Shroud focused build.

Not to mention a burn build requires melee range which is troubling for high DPS uptime.

Use CPC and then do RS 4 inside a mob for a huge burst of poison damage.