Guild Wars 2

Cant put my finger on it, but I get that strange feeling a nerf is coming in that new balance patch for SPvP…

Anybody else intuition kicking in regarding that?

Get the feeling Eles wont be the only class getting a blunt smack from Nerf Bat. We will be joining them.

:-/

I dont know if my build is working correctly, or if some kind of bug is in play right now.

The only nerf I can see them even remotely justifying is a pvp related nerf about survivability versus other players in RS. I think they should just rework the shroud concept entirely regarding the hp sponge mechanic. That would remove all the justifications they have in their minds for all the restrictions and nerfs.

To fix eles they need to nerf burn. Nerfing burn will affect multiple classes. I wouldn’t worry about direct necro nerfs, I don’t see that coming. Everybody knows dd eles are the most ridiculous thing right now, it’s no secret, they can’t hide under the “omg reapers are op” or “omg heralds are op” threads.

Also they would either fix or nerf vamp runes, because right now it’s broken and creates very unbalanced pvp matches.

You add burn + broken vamp runes, you see why eles are the most broken class ingame at the moment.

Don’t see anything about Reaper they would nerf for being OP, except maybe Gravedigger’s damage if they really wanted to pick something (I don’t think its worth nerfing to be clear, but at 3.0 coefficient I could see some strange justification). Honestly though, the worst changes I can imagine is not enough changes to things that need them. Robert Gee has not only made good changes, he’s made really smart ones that I think are really fun to play with (ex: Death Magic actually has some really cool unappreciated synergy w/ toughness stacking into power conversion).

HOWEVER, Robert Gee hasn’t done us wrong yet, and I think allowing our abusive relationship with our ex-dev ruin our happiness in our new pairing with Gee would be a bad thing.

I suspect they’ll nerf Blighter’s boon (I dread an over nerf, though), and possibly grave digger damage.

All of which, if handled well, I’d be okay with if they can smooth out all the other areas. But in short, yes, I do get a bit of an uneasy feeling.

Implying we’ll get sPvP balance before 2016. =P

sPvP crybabies bitter about losing a 1v1 will probably push for nerfs, as they always do.

And PvE players on weak PvE classes will pay the price for it as usual.

Plague signet needs higher cd or less condi transfer. I am guessing this will be nerf.

Man, we are fine. Eles have been beyond broken ever since launch. I used to 1v6~7 on my D/D Ele like 2 years ago, no jokes! We are just fine.

Burn nerf affects everybody Dhuumfire is too wet on base shroud.

i wouldnt like gravedigger nerfed at all, you already can avoid it just by walking away

Robert gee seems to be conservative in his balancing decisions so I don’t see him ruining reaper. In any case it does matter if it happens it happens.

PlatinumMember.5274:

Robert gee seems to be conservative in his balancing decisions so I don’t see him ruining reaper. In any case it does matter if it happens it happens.

Just to be safe though, we should still offer a sacrifice to the gods. Quickly! Everyone! To the gem store!

We bin Nerfed constantly for 3y, we actually bin Nerfed 10x more then we bin Buffed since start so I doubt we get a Nerf now. The dmg feels in balance even slighlt UP in RS and considering our cast times not even OP on GS. The Nerf some non-Necs wanted is on Blighters Boon but saldy its weak outside on sPvP and in 1v1 situations, the whole trait relies on allies imho due to Necros inability to buff himself other then with Might.

I cant see Reaper get a nerf

PlatinumMember.5274:

Robert gee seems to be conservative in his balancing decisions so I don’t see him ruining reaper. In any case it does matter if it happens it happens.

Not so much conservative (his changes to Reaper and Necro traits were pretty significant) as wanting most things to be viable.

Bhawb.7408:

Don’t see anything about Reaper they would nerf for being OP, except maybe Gravedigger’s damage if they really wanted to pick something (I don’t think its worth nerfing to be clear, but at 3.0 coefficient I could see some strange justification). Honestly though, the worst changes I can imagine is not enough changes to things that need them. Robert Gee has not only made good changes, he’s made really smart ones that I think are really fun to play with (ex: Death Magic actually has some really cool unappreciated synergy w/ toughness stacking into power conversion).

HOWEVER, Robert Gee hasn’t done us wrong yet, and I think allowing our abusive relationship with our ex-dev ruin our happiness in our new pairing with Gee would be a bad thing.

Who was our former dev for this class? Was it Karl?

gavyne.6847:

To fix eles they need to nerf burn. Nerfing burn will affect multiple classes. I wouldn’t worry about direct necro nerfs, I don’t see that coming. Everybody knows dd eles are the most ridiculous thing right now, it’s no secret, they can’t hide under the “omg reapers are op” or “omg heralds are op” threads.

Also they would either fix or nerf vamp runes, because right now it’s broken and creates very unbalanced pvp matches.

You add burn + broken vamp runes, you see why eles are the most broken class ingame at the moment.

The Vamp runes are so OP they are banned in ESL (I think it was) So in offical tournements they are banned, shows how OP they are. It should be like the downed state Ele form. Immune to direct damage but still affected by CC and conditions.

nearlight.3064:

Who was our former dev for this class? Was it Karl?

I don’t think “profession devs” really existed before now. I believe the entire team worked on things because whenever we heard changes, we heard them from multiple sources (Sharp, Peters, Karl, etc.) instead of just one source. As a side note, Peters is gone so that’s another benefit to us in the balance department.

Nerfing Elementalist should be priority balance #1 for anet. The elementalist is tricky to balance with its low armor and low HP.

The best way to nerf elementalist is to buff its counter, necromancer, so that it is actually a counter and not just a 50/50.

Necromancers and Reapers are already dead meat against thieves, meditation guards, Range (and ranger), Hammer warriors, and this doesn’t change even with a few buffs. But a few buffs could keep Elementalists under control.

Hopefully usefulness fixes to axe, scepter, and focus are coming. If any of them are useable that’s a big buff.

Also, there was a lot of interest in the Reaper in the betas. Hopefully anet doesn’t kill this off with a nerf right away. The greatsword, in particular, is so clunky and telegraphed that the damage could still go up another 20-40% before it was OP. at its current damage output, it’s probably underpowered since it gives no team support, has little defense, and isn’t top tier DPS.

Plus Condi necromancer was ether-renewaled. It was over nerfed into the grave. You have to expect a “buff” that is really a slight un-nerf similar to the master of corruption fix is coming.

Finally, changes have a lead in time. The whole community, not just this forum but the pvp forum and reddit have noticed and complained about underpowered necromancers since May. With apologies to rangers its our turn.

This necromancer community hasn’t served the class well: we don’t agree on everything and there are a bunch of apologists who give anet the benefit of the doubt even after three years. The unanimous Elementalist + Warrior communities are better at communicating with the developers. They want everything buffed with no nuances and they get what they want.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

PlatinumMember.5274:

Robert gee seems to be conservative in his balancing decisions so I don’t see him ruining reaper. In any case it does matter if it happens it happens.

Not so much conservative (his changes to Reaper and Necro traits were pretty significant) as wanting most things to be viable.

Conservative in the sense that he doesn’t make rash decisions. He always has some somewhat rational reason for his decisions. His decisions makes sense to a logical degree unlike the others.

Nothing about Reaper felt op compared to anything that’s currently out there or will be after the other elite specs. Think it ‘soaked’ up damage while doing too much? Probably didn’t play a Rev, Daredevil, or Warrior.

Gravedigger doesn’t do too much damage. It’s a lot in a single hit, but has both a hideous aftercast, long cd if that single hit doesn’t land / is above 50%, and is the only thing on GS that hits hard (aside from standing inside nightfall for all 4 pulses). I think people were just shocked to see that number come out of a necromancer and are reacting to the ‘newness’ of things.

Being able to stomp effectively is just bringing necro into parity with other class abilities that already existed through stab on demand in RS / with CttB.

The only nerf I could see being necessary is either new Rise minions taking the place of old, so you can’t double up (or was this a bug?) and/or CttB having less effect in order to receive a lower CD. Maaaaaaybe BB receiving x procs per y seconds (and an increase in healing to normalize situations away from feast or famine issues).

Speaking of. Am I the only one who thinks it’d be kinda nice if Gravedigger was split into 2 hits to better match the animation and an itty bit of blind protection? It already looks like it should hit twice and honestly wiffs often. Plus two hit might help a bit on the 1 shot side of issues too when stats are high.

ronpierce.2760:

Speaking of. Am I the only one who thinks it’s be kinda nice if Gravedigger was split into 2 hits to better match the animation and an itty bit of blind protection? It already looks like it should hit twice and honestly wiffs often. Plus two hit might help a bit on the 1 shot side of issues too when stats are high.

I never noticed it hit twice, but if so it is nice. I do love the GS, I feel the AA is the only thing that needs adjusted on it, and that’s just timing wise. Gravedigger is everything I hoped it would be now.

TheLastNobody.8319:

ronpierce.2760:

Speaking of. Am I the only one who thinks it’s be kinda nice if Gravedigger was split into 2 hits to better match the animation and an itty bit of blind protection? It already looks like it should hit twice and honestly wiffs often. Plus two hit might help a bit on the 1 shot side of issues too when stats are high.

I never noticed it hit twice, but if so it is nice. I do love the GS, I feel the AA is the only thing that needs adjusted on it, and that’s just timing wise. Gravedigger is everything I hoped it would be now.

It doesn’t hit twice, but the animation is such that suggests it would. Maybe it’s just me, but the animation hitting twice, but only making a single impact drives me a bit crazy.

Dead.5829:

-snip- long cd if that single hit doesn’t land / is above 50% -snip-

8s are a long cd now? Srsly? ^^
Gravedigger surely is a really strong skill, but it can stay as it is for the first time, I guess. But I don’t get why some guys say it is “countered” by simply going away. It doesn’t root you and your movement speed didn’t get lower (at least I didn’t notice something like that at the last beta).

ronpierce.2760:

TheLastNobody.8319:

ronpierce.2760:

Speaking of. Am I the only one who thinks it’s be kinda nice if Gravedigger was split into 2 hits to better match the animation and an itty bit of blind protection? It already looks like it should hit twice and honestly wiffs often. Plus two hit might help a bit on the 1 shot side of issues too when stats are high.

I never noticed it hit twice, but if so it is nice. I do love the GS, I feel the AA is the only thing that needs adjusted on it, and that’s just timing wise. Gravedigger is everything I hoped it would be now.

It doesn’t hit twice, but the animation is such that suggests it would. Maybe it’s just me, but the animation hitting twice, but only making a single impact drives me a bit crazy.

Oh sorry! I misread your post apparently, you have it’s instead of it’d.

TheLastNobody.8319:

ronpierce.2760:

TheLastNobody.8319:

ronpierce.2760:

Speaking of. Am I the only one who thinks it’s be kinda nice if Gravedigger was split into 2 hits to better match the animation and an itty bit of blind protection? It already looks like it should hit twice and honestly wiffs often. Plus two hit might help a bit on the 1 shot side of issues too when stats are high.

I never noticed it hit twice, but if so it is nice. I do love the GS, I feel the AA is the only thing that needs adjusted on it, and that’s just timing wise. Gravedigger is everything I hoped it would be now.

It doesn’t hit twice, but the animation is such that suggests it would. Maybe it’s just me, but the animation hitting twice, but only making a single impact drives me a bit crazy.

Oh sorry! I misread your post apparently, you have it’s instead of it’d.

I’m on my phone, it’s auto corrects correct things constantly. >_> I’m sure some of my longer posts that I’ve done on my phone are a pure eye sore, but I usually try to comb through it.

TheLastNobody.8319:

ronpierce.2760:

TheLastNobody.8319:

ronpierce.2760:

Speaking of. Am I the only one who thinks it’s be kinda nice if Gravedigger was split into 2 hits to better match the animation and an itty bit of blind protection? It already looks like it should hit twice and honestly wiffs often. Plus two hit might help a bit on the 1 shot side of issues too when stats are high.

I never noticed it hit twice, but if so it is nice. I do love the GS, I feel the AA is the only thing that needs adjusted on it, and that’s just timing wise. Gravedigger is everything I hoped it would be now.

It doesn’t hit twice, but the animation is such that suggests it would. Maybe it’s just me, but the animation hitting twice, but only making a single impact drives me a bit crazy.

Oh sorry! I misread your post apparently, you have it’s instead of it’d.

Well, if gravedigger would hit twice, I think it should just get recharged for a strucked foe beyond 50%, if both hits were successful.

For reference, http://youtu.be/zp2HO0iSsjU at 16:04, the animation certainly suggests a multi-hit aspect, and it drives me nuts that it doesn’t hit twice. :P

ronpierce.2760:

For reference, http://youtu.be/zp2HO0iSsjU at 16:04, the animation certainly suggests a multi-hit aspect, and it drives me nuts that it doesn’t hit twice. :P

I really think this would lead to a nerf, because the requirement to get this skill recharged should be to hit with both of them. For the sake of counterplay, of course. If it would get splitted in 2 hits and you just have to get 1 of them successful, counterplay like aegis or blind wouldn’t work as effective as they should.

If it got split it’d be too strong as is, would definitely result in a nerf. It can already literally one-shot players if you pair it with double-crit sigils and CoD, glass vs glass.

Bhawb.7408:

If it got split it’d be too strong as is, would definitely result in a nerf. It can already literally one-shot players if you pair it with double-crit sigils and CoD, glass vs glass.

Bwawb the dream crusher everyone! (I mean that funnily, not attackingly, you’re one of the people that keeps us from going absolutely crazy in the necro forums)

Bhawb.7408:

If it got split it’d be too strong as is, would definitely result in a nerf. It can already literally one-shot players if you pair it with double-crit sigils and CoD, glass vs glass.

I’m all for balance, but I’m not sure your logic. In that it would become too reliable? If it was split, chances are the damage would be split with it, resulting in the same damage, assuming both hit. If anything, I’d suspect because there’d be a gap between the first and second hit, there’d be less one-shotting, though it would have better protection against aegis/blind being a two-part hit.

ronpierce.2760:

I’m all for balance, but I’m not sure your logic. In that it would become too reliable? If it was split, chances are the damage would be split with it, resulting in the same damage, assuming both hit. If anything, I’d suspect because there’d be a gap between the first and second hit, there’d be less one-shotting, though it would have better protection against aegis/blind being a two-part hit.

It would be significantly more reliable as two hits. Note that two hits would make it much better with all kinds of procs, depending on how they programmed crit it would be much more consistent with crits, it would obviously be better against aegis/blind, it would be able to proc things like CoD without sigils, get the extra damage from CtD on the second hit, there are a whole bunch of things it would do better. For every situation that the first hit and the second doesn’t (and so it does 50% less than before) there will be at least equal situations where the first would have missed and second hits, dealing half damage instead of nothing. I don’t think increasing reliability on a skill that is “overtuned” because it is inherently unreliable is the right way to go.

Bhawb.7408:

ronpierce.2760:

I’m all for balance, but I’m not sure your logic. In that it would become too reliable? If it was split, chances are the damage would be split with it, resulting in the same damage, assuming both hit. If anything, I’d suspect because there’d be a gap between the first and second hit, there’d be less one-shotting, though it would have better protection against aegis/blind being a two-part hit.

It would be significantly more reliable as two hits. Note that two hits would make it much better with all kinds of procs, depending on how they programmed crit it would be much more consistent with crits, it would obviously be better against aegis/blind, it would be able to proc things like CoD without sigils, get the extra damage from CtD on the second hit, there are a whole bunch of things it would do better. For every situation that the first hit and the second doesn’t (and so it does 50% less than before) there will be at least equal situations where the first would have missed and second hits, dealing half damage instead of nothing. I don’t think increasing reliability on a skill that is “overtuned” because it is inherently unreliable is the right way to go.

I tend to think the opposite, though, I’m not quite focusing on numbers, numbers wise I still think it might be a bit high, dare I say it.

I tend to feel like more consistent fighting, though, leans toward better balance. This would, yes, make it more consistent in some terms, but in other terms, it’d also give people the chance to avoid part (or all) of the hit, rather than it always being instant punishment of like 12k+ in a single hit. Similarly, with a minor pause between hits, it gives the person time to evade, blind, aegis for the second portion of the attack that would have otherwise been entirely front-loaded with no slight chance to recover. Just depends on your perspective. One is slow and unreliable, but highly punishing, the other is more consistent but has more chances to not eat the full amount of damage, if you see what I mean.

I tend to prefer more average consistencies than large swings. (That and the part where it’d actually sync with the animation better.) Most procs still have ICDs, so while it increases the chance to proc them, you wouldn’t be over proccing them. Again a bit more of consistency.

All of which, void of raw skill damage discussion, because it tends to hit fairly hard regardless. I’d certainly prefer two weaker hits to one instant-kill, as I’ve nearly one-shot thieves as it stands, where as they’re fast and reactive, the fights may have been a bit less about luck had it not be one big slow chunk. That’s my general thought on this.

First i dont think necros (or reapers) need nerfs but if i had to point a finger at something it would be the might generation of the spite line.

I would probably remove the minor that gives 2 stacks of might against targets below 50% (siphoned power) and make it a flat damage modifer on enemies that have the vulnerability condition on them.

Muchacho.2390:

First i dont think necros (or reapers) need nerfs but if i had to point a finger at something it would be the might generation of the spite line.

I would probably remove the minor that gives 2 stacks of might against targets below 50% (siphoned power) and make it a flat damage modifer on enemies that have the vulnerability condition on them.

Boy that’d be nice… For a lot of reasons…

ronpierce.2760:

Muchacho.2390:

First i dont think necros (or reapers) need nerfs but if i had to point a finger at something it would be the might generation of the spite line.

I would probably remove the minor that gives 2 stacks of might against targets below 50% (siphoned power) and make it a flat damage modifer on enemies that have the vulnerability condition on them.

Boy that’d be nice… For a lot of reasons…

Mhhh should i give some reasons why i come up with such a suggestion? I think there are some good arguments why this change is not that bad for us overall but it also would address alot of problems people have with reapers.

Muchacho.2390:

ronpierce.2760:

Muchacho.2390:

First i dont think necros (or reapers) need nerfs but if i had to point a finger at something it would be the might generation of the spite line.

I would probably remove the minor that gives 2 stacks of might against targets below 50% (siphoned power) and make it a flat damage modifer on enemies that have the vulnerability condition on them.

Boy that’d be nice… For a lot of reasons…

Mhhh should i give some reasons why i come up with such a suggestion?

You could, but I’m already with you on the idea. If they did this maybe they could also make Chilling Force not awful. :P

Well, if they were to take the complaints of people to heart they could nerf blighter’s boon so that they address the “reaper is too tanky in teamfights” criticism, and then nerf RS1’s attack speed to address the “reaper deals too much damage and has too much sustain from autoing in RS” criticism. I do not believe that those nerfs are necessary but – we will see how it goes.

ronpierce.2760:

Muchacho.2390:

ronpierce.2760:

Muchacho.2390:

First i dont think necros (or reapers) need nerfs but if i had to point a finger at something it would be the might generation of the spite line.

I would probably remove the minor that gives 2 stacks of might against targets below 50% (siphoned power) and make it a flat damage modifer on enemies that have the vulnerability condition on them.

Boy that’d be nice… For a lot of reasons…

Mhhh should i give some reasons why i come up with such a suggestion?

You could, but I’m already with you on the idea. If they did this maybe they could also make Chilling Force not awful. :P

Ah yes, the elephant in the room has reared it’s ugly head (I have nothing against elephants btw). Because reapers might requires nothing more that to hit with S1 it can stack might to max level quickly and, in essence, makes spite the go to favorite for any power build. This was less a problem when the S1 was slow as molasses, but reaper changed that. The +20 to -50 helps lots too, but as that is a grand master trait it is fine IMO.

Nobody wants to talk about nerfs seeing as we were the punching bags of classes for so long, but if they were to spread the love to the other trait lines it might give us a reason to want to take them. I am not saying we should gut the spite line but fair is afterall fair and when one minor far outshines all the others it is a problem.

Chilling force would be a nice start and increasing the duration of the might be one way of giving us a way out of having to take spite. Seeing as we have to hit a chilled foe for it to fire, makes it much harder to stack and makes using it more or a skill and less of an auto. The death magic line could also use some love here, and even if ANet does not want to remove the soul comprehension trait they could add to it.

If Robert is reading these forums I would suggest not to nerf us (if any was intended) but to even out the other trait lines so as to make them more viable to the average player.

Andlat Helsonr.1284:

Well, if they were to take the complaints of people to heart they could nerf blighter’s boon so that they address the “reaper is too tanky in teamfights” criticism, and then nerf RS1’s attack speed to address the “reaper deals too much damage and has too much sustain from autoing in RS” criticism. I do not believe that those nerfs are necessary but – we will see how it goes.

Reaper Shroud is already weak and a DPS loss in PvE over camping greatsword, so if anything it needs buffs.

The only reason you people use reaper shroud in pvp is because landing skills without constantly being interrupted/bounced around by CC on a greatsword is an effort in futility.

ronpierce.2760:

Muchacho.2390:

ronpierce.2760:

Muchacho.2390:

First i dont think necros (or reapers) need nerfs but if i had to point a finger at something it would be the might generation of the spite line.

I would probably remove the minor that gives 2 stacks of might against targets below 50% (siphoned power) and make it a flat damage modifer on enemies that have the vulnerability condition on them.

Boy that’d be nice… For a lot of reasons…

Mhhh should i give some reasons why i come up with such a suggestion?

You could, but I’m already with you on the idea. If they did this maybe they could also make Chilling Force not awful. :P

Ok here some of my reasons:

First that i really wanted to reduce might stacking without hurting the pve necros too much. So i figured they would prefer a damage modifer over simple mights stacks. Afterall i recall spoj saying we should have more damage modifer. And the 25 might stack can still come from allies (firefields, phalanx warriors etc.) so i dont think its a big loss.

Second reason was that i wanted to reduce the synergy between reaper and spite in pvp without destroying it. With this change spite will still be good but reduces alot of synergy with blighters boon and thus would avoid a possible nerf. This would also give more incentive to use other lines then spite for reaper.

And as you said it would allow to increase the might duration of chilling force to make it better in pve but doesnt give to much synergy with blighters boon.

An other reason is that spite has alot of vulnerability traits so we would have a good synergy with my change.

It also would adress the concern some people have in the pvp subforum. Also the high sustain+high damage. It becomes harder to maintain 25 stacks in pvp and alot of the healing/lf of blighters boon without nerfing it.

I think i can even come up with more reasons but i think they a good start to have a good discussion.

Thing is might is universal for all builds because it increases all types of damage. A % damage modifier would only be useful to any build that has power damage. It would remove incentive for condi builds to pick the line.

Sigmoid.7082:

Thing is might is universal for all builds because it increases all types of damage. A % damage modifier would only be useful to any build that has power damage. It would remove incentive for condi builds to pick the line.

What about, and this was sort of an oddball idea I had based on how they are handling other traits on other classes like Roiling Mists, what if Might just had an increased effectiveness on the Necromancer with it instead?

Something like “Might is 33% more effective”, allowing for a maximum increase of 250 power/condi dmg I’m best case scenarios, but also be less easy to maintain the 25 stacks due to loss of the might under 50%. Also synergizes with the adept minor a bit better rather than just being more of the same.

Could be good idea or terrible. Figured this would be a good place to test the waters.

Sigmoid.7082:

Thing is might is universal for all builds because it increases all types of damage. A % damage modifier would only be useful to any build that has power damage. It would remove incentive for condi builds to pick the line.

I know but say that to the soul reaping gm minor…

You also could make it condition damage and dircet damage modifer like vulnerability is.

It’s a silly objection to be against % damage modifiers. Have them apply to condition damage as well as power. It’s the obvious solution instead of trying to dance around wrong design.

gavyne.6847:

To fix eles they need to nerf burn. Nerfing burn will affect multiple classes. I wouldn’t worry about direct necro nerfs, I don’t see that coming. Everybody knows dd eles are the most ridiculous thing right now, it’s no secret, they can’t hide under the “omg reapers are op” or “omg heralds are op” threads.

Also they would either fix or nerf vamp runes, because right now it’s broken and creates very unbalanced pvp matches.

You add burn + broken vamp runes, you see why eles are the most broken class ingame at the moment.

What about vamp exactly ? Missed something somewhere i think

Mistform with vamp runes reset ele’s downstate hp to 80%.

I see, need nerf asap then (lol)
Guard is kinda broken aswell about burn anyway soo the main prob is about the condition not a specific class