Giver's Weapons
Isnt the condition duration capped somewhere at 100%?
Giver’s weapons are bugged and have no effect at all. That’s pretty awesome if you ask me.
Are you sure about that?
Are you sure about that?
Yep.
I tested this on my guardian extensively, its easier to run conclusive tests on that.
Max condition duration is 100%, excluding lingering curses which stacks over 100%.
Do yourself a big favor and avoid the giver’ weapons, not just because they are bugged (apparently), but because giving up your primary weapon stat (which is about 100 of your prime stat) for 10% condition duration is insane.
Think about it in terms of food. A food exists that gives 40% condition duration AND condition damage secondary. The highest primary stat food you can get gives 100 to that primary stat and the same as the condition food to a secondary stat.
Is 100 power/precision/etc worth 10% condition duration? If it was, logically we would have food in the game that would give 400 power/precision/etc. Assuming all things are equal. So given how easy it is to get condition duration from food I would avoid this.
EDIT: Or, if it is a 2her, you are giving up 180 primary stat for 10% duration…..
Btw, I think specific traits that increase duration, like lingering curse and hemo work multiplicatively, but i’m sure runes and sigils work additively.
The point of the Giver weapons is to hit 80% condition duration (100% for bleed) without points in Spite. That’s what I will be using them for. I will keep my Rabid scepter for times when condition removal is a factor.
The point of the Giver weapons is to hit 80% condition duration (100% for bleed) without points in Spite. That’s what I will be using them for. I will keep my Rabid scepter for times when condition removal is a factor.
Giver’s weapons are better for burn, which favors duration over condition damage. Condition duration is terrible if you have to sacrifice condition damage for it when used for bleed.
Well… Someone posed the question: Is 10% Condition Duration worth 100 of your primary stat?
The answer is harder than it seems. We’ll look at two very different skills to see when and if it is worth it.
The only time more duration is worth ANYTHING for a Bleed, is if it creates 1 more second of bleeding. Otherwise it won’t tick again.
First, the worst bleed in the game. Engineer Pistol 1. (Provides 1 Stack of 2 seconds.)
Needs 50% Bleed duration to hit the next tick. 2 Bleed Dutration sigils and 2 Afflicted, and 2 Krait runes will grant that 50%. This makes our bleed 3 seconds long.
Bleed damage, by the by, is:
2.5 + (0.5 * Level) + (0.05 * Condition Damage) per stack
So at level 80, you just got yourself……. 42.5+(0.05*Malice) damage over the normal shot. This is why people scoff at Pistol 1’s bleed and just build for Power/Crit. But that extra 42.5 damage is about equal to 42 more Power. Is it worth 2 sigils and 4 runes? No. Because you can get a good couple hundred there.
Now let’s look at Necromancer’s longest weapon bleed: Enfeebling blood. (2 Stacks, 10 Seconds each)
With even 10% Condition duration, we get that needed extra tick. With the same setup as the engineer above? We get 10 more total seconds of bleed out of the two stacks. So we just got (425+.5*Malice) more Enfeebling Blood damage from that setup. Now that’s pretty good. On an attack with a par-for-the-course 1 coefficient for power, you just gave yourself about 425+(.5*Malice) equivalent Power. That’s about 85 Power on each sigil, and 63.75 power per single Rune.
Unless you have more than 0 Malice… Which is likely true if you’r focusing on bleeding.
Worth it yet? Still, depends. Are we PvP, WvW, or PvE? Does the target have cleansing? Will the fight last long enough for the 5 extra seconds to mean something? It’s hard to say.
For a sustained fight, I’d say it’s worth it. For regular 1v1 mob-smashing, probably not. Basically, the longer the fight goes, the more valuable condition duration is. It’s not quantifiable due to all the variables involved. But can it be good? Certainly.
(edited by Wasdclick.1764)
Well… Someone posed the question: Is 10% Condition Duration worth 100 of your primary stat?
The answer is harder than it seems. We’ll look at two very different skills to see when and if it is worth it.
The only time more duration is worth ANYTHING for a Bleed, is if it creates 1 more second of bleeding. Otherwise it won’t tick again.
First, the worst bleed in the game. Engineer Pistol 1. (Provides 1 Stack of 2 seconds.)
Needs 50% Bleed duration to hit the next tick. 2 (Working) Giver’s weapons and 2 Afflicted, and 2 Krait sigils will grant that 50%. This makes our bleed 3 seconds long.
Bleed damage, by the by, is:
2.5 + (0.5 * Level) + (0.05 * Condition Damage) per stackSo at level 80, you just got yourself……. 42.5+(0.05*Malice) damage over the normal shot. This is why people scoff at Pistol 1’s bleed and just build for Power/Crit.
Now let’s look at Necromancer’s longest bleed: Enfeebling blood. (2 Stacks, 10 Seconds each)
With even 10% Condition duration, we get that needed extra tick. With the same setup as the engineer above? We get 10 more total seconds of bleed out of the two stacks. So we just got 425+(.5*Malice) more damage from that setup.
Worth it yet? Still, depends. Are we PvP, WvW, or PvE? Does the target have cleansing? Will the fight last long enough for the 5 extra seconds to mean something? It’s hard to say.
For a sustained fight, I’d say it’s worth it. For regular 1v1 mob-smashing, probably not. Basically, the longer the fight goes, the more valuable condition duration is. It’s not quantifiable due to all the variables involved. But can it be good? Certainly.
The necromancer’s longest bleed is Blood is Power facepalm.
The necromancer’s longest bleed is Blood is Power facepalm.
Apologies. Longest WEAPON bleed. Happy?
-Snip-
I was mainly thinking for WvW.
When fighting against players I tend to assume they have condition removal so the way I see it is that it’s good to put a large amount of bleeds, and then use any form of disruption to keep them distracted while the bleeds do their job, and then repeat on recharge.
Something like Scepter 2, Dagger 5, Scepter 1 a few times and BiP, DS fear and DS2, switch to staff and 2-5 on top of them.
Scepter 1 has 4s of bleed so I would only need 25% more duration for an extra tic. But what about lingering curses? That kind of changes the formula.
-Snip-
I was mainly thinking for WvW.
When fighting against players I tend to assume they have condition removal so the way I see it is that it’s good to put a large amount of bleeds, and then use any form of disruption to keep them distracted while the bleeds do their job, and then repeat on recharge.
Something like Scepter 2, Dagger 5, Scepter 1 a few times and BiP, DS fear and DS2, switch to staff and 2-5 on top of them.
Scepter 1 has 4s of bleed so I would only need 25% more duration for an extra tic. But what about lingering curses? That kind of changes the formula.
I am quite certain Lingering Curse multiplies after all the gear durations are added together. That said, in the grand scheme of things just forget about it. There are a billion and one reasons where your duration might be shortened and what not, and going for that maximum 100% is a bit of a waste of time IMO. 50% or even 25% is good enough already.
You are missing the fact that once you hit a certain point, an extra tick of a bleed deals more damage than the condition damage you can get from a rune/weapon.
The break even point is somewhere below 700 Malice. That is a very easy threshold to meet with traits and the rest of your gear.
Each condition has its own threshold, but most often, getting an extra tick deals more damage than the amount of condition damage you can get from the equivalent slot.
Well… Someone posed the question: Is 10% Condition Duration worth 100 of your primary stat?
……
I have 100% bleed duration with zero points in spite and no giver’s weapon. I believe, that in and of itself should point out that I am better off avoiding that prefix. I do not know anything about engineers, nor am I in a position to comment on them. Necro can do that with food/runes and hemophilia, a staple in any condition build. I could give up 15% or 10% bleed duration for different runes, but no equivalent rune would give me anywhere near a reasonable matching of condition damage.
My point is that if you compare the places you can get bleed duration from, with the equivalent condition damage you get from the same slot, the givers’ stuff is weak by comparison.
If you were on the fence, set in stone on your build, and you needed 10% more duration to max out some DOT, then okay, sure, it may be worth it for you, but I would suggest you look closer at your runes/build if that is the case.
Mad King/Lyssa give 10% condition duration, and take up two rune slots. Can you point me to a rune that gives 100 condition damage for two runes? Taking that prefix is like shooting yourself in the foot.
If you end goal is condition duration, runes/traits/spite are the way to go. These weapons are not worth it. Again, point me to anywhere I can take two runes or one trait that gives me a reasonable equivalent in condition damage.
The two handed ones, like Staff, are doubly a rip off, since you only get 10% duration for a loss of 180 condition damage or whatever stat. Where as with a two weapon setup you could get 20% duration for the same 180 condition damage (losing 90 on main and off hand).
Still not very good.
The two handed ones, like Staff, are doubly a rip off, since you only get 10% duration for a loss of 180 condition damage or whatever stat. Where as with a two weapon setup you could get 20% duration for the same 180 condition damage (losing 90 on main and off hand).
Still not very good.
This has been omitted by Arenanet for ages now. Same with magic find lol.