Guild Wars 2

So most of us agree the way DS works is one of the core problems of the class. Here’s some suggestions I’ve though about for a long time that- to me anyway- would alleviate a large chunk of Ds problems without being op and runing the class.

• During DS you take no damage from physical or condi attacks, but are susceptible to all forms of CC (hard and soft) still. The catch is that while in DS you are in a “shadow attunement” meaing you cannot damage anything that is also not in shadow attunement with you. Bear with me I will explain more of this in a min.
• Life Force degens as it always has
• You can regen health while in DS but only through regen boon and ally heals. In other words you cannot throw a well of blood then pop DS and sit in it for full heal. Siphon heals are allowed while in DS.
• Now to the nitty gritty: While “shadow walking” in “shadow attunement” – hereafter referred to kitten and SA respectively – you can banish targets to the shadow realm with you by a new DS skill that can replace a current DS skill (or hey maybe even give us one for the utility slots now yay!). This allows you to damage them but it also allows them to damage you, but they can recieve no outside help while the two of you are in this “dance of death”. This enables the necro to retain the attrition role and the “fight till one dies” aspect of it the devs want. The damage you take while in DS still goes to your life force so you have to pick your targets wisely and use skill to win the fight before being forced out of DS. note that DS now prevents point captures to prevent SW abuse.
• Life transfer will change to be an AoE version of the shadow banish skill (however that is implemented, hopefully though a utility slot being used while in DS). This tags up to 5 targets around you for SA, doing damage per tick and holding them in SA with you for the duration of the skill. It will not refill life force as it previously did (poorly I might add).
• New elite skill- [spectral skill] Shadow Ripple: all DS skills and attacks do more damage to targets attuned to shadow for “x seconds”. While outside DS the necromancer gains life forceThis would have to be a pre-casted skill, casted before going into Ds and have an aura or colored effect so enemy players can know a spike is coming. It will have an appropriate elite cooldown, something like 150 or 170 seconds.
• All other DS traits work as they previously did unless there’s one you guys think might be too op.

The main focus of these changes is to ensure necros have a viable, renewable, sustain mechanic. With this new DS the necro has enough risk vs reward to prevent it from being the “nuke” skill that makes it op. Remember necro cannot damage anyone unless they are attuned, which now allows the necro to be damaged. They are also still susceptible to CC while in DS just not damage, so they can still be shut down until LF runs out (this would require traits like vital persistence to be removed though and LF degen adjusted accordingly to find a nice middle ground).

• Take note, these changes are all BASELINE they should not be a specialization or a new trait gimmick. This is a DS Fix

Enter thoughts, concerns below. Thanks for reading.

A few other changes I thought of and wanted to add.

So siphons currently are not the only mechanic we lack in DS, but also our signets.

• Signet passives should work in DS, which will bring in some team support play I’ll discuss in a sec. As long as they have not been activated while out of DS, the passives will remain while in DS
• This will give some team play if we can get a trait that basically turns our DS into a land version of the water DS (with some tweaks to tone it down because water DS is op right now for condi builds). This allows some team play through plague signet passive . The Life Blast would be the underwater version which would transfer out 1 condi per hit. This would replace unholy martyr of course with underwater DS, so the unholy martyr trait could be replaced by this new condi DS trait and the function of UM rolled into the function of gathering plague, giving you life force back per condition (since gathering plague does no damage it can be allowed to regen LF- whereas my new proposed life transfer does do damage and has powerful spike potential with shadow ripple and therefore should not be allowed sustain potential too).
• As for the sig of vampirism passive, this would have to be disallowed because it counts as a heal skill and would be too op considering you take no dmg in DS under my propsed changes, same for blood fiend. It will not destroy blood fiend but you will recieve no healing from it.

Very interesting and creative. Some might argue it’s a bit too complex, but I like the general idea of a “dance of death”, or a duel. It encourages the Necromancer to be a reaper of death, which I think is befitting. Could be a little too OP in the right hands, but that’s also true for Necros right now.

It sounds a lot more complex on paper than it does in practice. It wouldn’t be much different than flashing into DS and casting a skill. Most people already do that with DS > doom it’s like they think of both skills as 1. Same thing I’m doing here. it would be DS > banish

I’ll try to make up a more simplified explanation later for those tl;dr people.

TL;DR version:

Death Shroud-
Assume a spectral form and gain new skills, turning your life force into health. All physical and condition damage negated outside of the shadow plane. This does not apply to CC effects (hard and soft CC)
New skills -
* Life Transfer no longer returns some life force, instead it pulses damage on 5 targets and puts them in shadow attunement with you so you can deal damage for “x seconds”. The damage pulses of this skill lasts only as long as the channel but the shadow attunement is on it’s own timer.
* Utility Slot 1 Banish- banish target to the shadow plane, allowing you to do damage to the target while in Death Shroud but also recieving damage yourself if attacked.
* possible adjustment for balance- This effect consumes 1% Life Force every 2 seconds (on top of the natural LF degen)
* Utility Slot 2 To be determined
* Utility Slot 3 To be determined
Things that now work in DS:
* heal effects from regen boon or allied heals only
* Siphons
* signet passives
* Both of the above does not apply to heal skills which are disabled while in Death Shroud
New trait replacing Unholy Sanctuary-
* Death shroud skills have been changed to mimic underwater Death Shroud form. Gathering plague now functions like Unholy Sanctuary.

These are Baseline changes, not band-aid traits or specializations

I went kind of harsh for the tradeoff for the necro while in DS and attacking because I think that makes it more fair and easy to balance. Consider that you either have to use DS to sustain, or attack. It would no longer be possible to halfway do both the way we do now. This removes that problem of “scaling sustain vs more foes without also scaling up kill potential”. It removes a lot of AoE play from DS, which I’m sure some people might not like, but it opens up so much more sustain and skilled play. This will raise the difficulty level of paying necro by a lot at first I imagine, but if people give it time to learn the rotation and how to manage DS for sustain vs damage I think it will work out far better than this “wanna-be jack-of-all-trades” DS we have now. It would also allow for condi play with my suggestions which is HUGE for necros since right now it seems DS is kinda pointless for condi builds.

Wow. This idea is fantastic.

Too bad it probably would never happen ):

Also. Life transfer would make up to five people able to focus you, (And they’d be immune to your non SA allies?) which seems counter productive.

If I understood it correctly, this is probably the most unique Idea for DS I’ve ever heard. At least in PvP this could actually change how people view necromancers. For pve there’s still the dancing component so you could avoid damage every 10 seconds. Still, being pve based game, I’m doubtful they’ll introduce a system that doesn’t reach even nearly it’s full potential in generic open world encounter.

Confusing to new players. Better slap 15% more Death Shroud and call it a day.

No, but seriously, creative idea. Only things are:

1. What do you mean by “no outside help” for banished targets? No boon sharing or out-heals?

2. We would need to add way more PvP modes and make conquest very optional. DS denying point capping would leave Necro absolutely defenseless and useless for point holding/capping. We could assist at best.

3. It’s…eh, it’s creative and I give you that, but what it can do is basically deny whole pressure. If Warrior activates Rampage, Necro Lich or Thief/Mesmer want to burst you down, you hop into DS and deny them 100%. With outsource healing, it would be walking nightmare.

4. Doesn’t really utilize much of Life Force potential as a resource. And I’m a big fan of using that, or health.

Malchior.1928:

Wow. This idea is fantastic.

Too bad it probably would never happen ):

Also. Life transfer would make up to five people able to focus you, (And they’d be immune to your non SA allies?) which seems counter productive.

Yeah I did consider that problem with the LT, would need to be something that was ironed out. Consider though that it’s a short duration, when the skill is over it cancels itself. Could perhaps put it on a toggle instead (still have a duration but also toggle-able) also while they are in shadow they recieve no outside help either including condi clears, heals, ect. This isn’t perfect I know, and something I will have to think about more. Perhaps the skill needs a whole new function but i wanted to retain at least one mild AoE skill for DS.

Rym.1469:

Confusing to new players. Better slap 15% more Death Shroud and call it a day.

No, but seriously, creative idea. Only things are:

1. What do you mean by “no outside help” for banished targets? No boon sharing or out-heals?

2. We would need to add way more PvP modes and make conquest very optional. DS denying point capping would leave Necro absolutely defenseless and useless for point holding/capping. We could assist at best.

3. It’s…eh, it’s creative and I give you that, but what it can do is basically deny whole pressure. If Warrior activates Rampage, Necro Lich or Thief/Mesmer want to burst you down, you hop into DS and deny them 100%. With outsource healing, it would be walking nightmare.

4. Doesn’t really utilize much of Life Force potential as a resource. And I’m a big fan of using that, or health.

1. Yes they can recieve no outside heals or boons, they can use their own heals though, which would prevent you from doing 100% lockdown.

2. Not able to cap points while fighting is already a necro problem, the only difference here is you can’t sit on the point in DS and cap, much like a thief can’t sit on it in stealth and cap. Don’t forget we still have many resources outside DS to help with on-point cap and popping into DS to absorb a burst wouldn’t ruin the whole cap. With this new DS you would be able to bunker down a point much easier and stall them there far longer so even though you might not be able to on-point cap right away you can still contribute by holding them there. I know this isn’t perfect but the devs are already terrified of a necro with actual sustain so offering this as a good gesture seemed right to me.

3. It wouldn’t be 100% lockdown, they still have many ways to CC us, but that’s also their own tradeoff. Since necros have on ways to chase, they need to decide whether that fight is worth seeing through or run away. Any class can disengage at will so it’s up to them to make that intelligent choice rather than just “pop elite + mash buttons + ? = win” . Moa would also still work to cancel DS like it does now and you’re still limited by how much dmg you can take by life force. It’s not an invuln skill like it sounds, unless the opponent are baddies and just want to button spam for wins. It forces both the necro and the opponent to use some measure of skill.

4. Yeah I agree, I was thinking that the DS trait Armored Shroud could be baselined into DS so that more LF meant more dmg reduction. I didn’t cover it too much though because there’s too much potential for LF use for me to speculate in one post, plus I wanted to see what ideas others came up with. There’s 2 utility slots I didn’t put in that could rely heavily on LF.

Keep in mind I understand this isn’t perfect, but it’s a step in the direction DS needs to go, imo. I tried to keep it balanced enough so that necro retains plenty of risk vs reward while still being effective. Like anything though, it would be subject to tweaking to find a spot that works for everyone. People will QQ their heads off any way you design it when necros get real sustain because they like their free kills the way they are now. But they will also adapt (the good players anyway) and find new ways to counter necros, which is how it should be.

Targuil.3741:

If I understood it correctly, this is probably the most unique Idea for DS I’ve ever heard. At least in PvP this could actually change how people view necromancers. For pve there’s still the dancing component so you could avoid damage every 10 seconds. Still, being pve based game, I’m doubtful they’ll introduce a system that doesn’t reach even nearly it’s full potential in generic open world encounter.

It would have to be balanced separately for pve, and I’m not one to attempt pve balancing, not really my thing. Perhaps increase LF decay and increase DS recharge or something? Yeah I can see how 10 second shield against braindead meat bags would be a bad thing, but you could still be CC’d which they seem to be introducing a lot more of from those HoT streams I watched. Then again it might be a fair tradeoff because you lose a lot of AoE potential at the cost of sustain and pve is all about AoE. There would have to be some rule made against banishing bosses of course, that would be way over the line. Maybe utilize one of the utility slots I left blank for a skill that gives you a charged up power attack when you leave DS so you can hop in, charge up, hop out, do a burst. Idk, grasping at straws here, I’ll leave the pve to the pve folk.

I love this idea. thw rough parts aside I honestly think this is the type of creative and unique directions a lot of classes need. I don’t play necro, but sir if you had designed them I would main it.

This would be enough to make it my main, as I am a sucker for good thematic stuff over optimum specs and build outs. I mainly PvP and even there I’d rather best my enemies with my choice of thematic spec (usually zerker on things most don’t like D/D ele).

This theme is 10/10 for me.

Druss.6917:

• You can regen health while in DS but only through regen boon and ally heals. In other words you cannot throw a well of blood then pop DS and sit in it for full heal. Siphon heals are allowed while in DS.

Considering you cant use heal skills in DS anyway, this means that everythiing heals except well of blood and sigils/runes.
Seems like two pointless exceptions to make.

Well of Blood isnt that powerful and i doubt it would suddenly become broken beyond recovery if it works in DS. I say allow it, then watch if it turns out too strong. Adjusting the numbers is easy enough.

Druss.6917:

New skills -
* Life Transfer no longer returns some life force, instead it pulses damage on 5 targets and puts them in shadow attunement with you so you can deal damage for “x seconds”. The damage pulses of this skill lasts only as long as the channel but the shadow attunement is on it’s own timer.

That would be cool only when you’re fighting alone and outnumbered OR if your whole team was Necros only (that would be OP as hell actually). I can’t imagine popping it in sPvP on a mid fight and making my team members unable to deal damage to the opponents for a period of time.
I like the idea in general, it’s very unique and creative but I’m not sure if it would work well in sPvP (not mentioning PvE, cause Necros would still be as useless as they are atm due to current meta + I don’t play PvE that much).

I think personally I’d simplify your idea and tweak some things.
First of all, being able to regenerate HP and receiving heals from allies is a must in Death Shroud and should be implemented anyway, scratching the Unholy Sanctuary trait. Exactly as you propose – Regeneration boon and heals from allies should work in DS. Personal healing skills, healing utilities and even siphoning should not work in DS.
That alone would fix some issues.

Even though it sounds amazing, I’d scratch banishing enemies into the shadow form completely – it would have to be some kind of a new condition or transformation (like Moa) skill. If it was a condition, anyone could cleanse it off of themselves easily. And as I mentioned before, if it was a transformation skill, It would affect other classes’ gameplay too much. And that would be kind of unfair.

As for not taking damage in DS – not sure about that. I’d much rather miss/block (due to being in a shadow form), let’s say, three CCs and reflect conditions back to enemies or consume them for a small portion of LF (makes sense that you can’t bleed or be crippled in a shadow form), BUT take normal damage. Or at least be more exposed to magical damage and less to physical damage (also makes sense, rite?). In return, we could deal less damage in Death Shroud.
This would fix the issue we currently have – not being able to disengage from combat and deal with focused fire.

Oh wait, just realized this whole discussion probably makes no sense as they’re not planning to fix our base Necro mechanics, hoping to address and cover our issues only with the new specialization. So yeah.

But anyway, thank you Good Sir for putting so much thought into the Death Shroud fix. As you can tell, it inspired me too (and others above) to hope for a better future of our sweet class

Yeah the more I look at my LT idea the more I don’t like it either. I’ll keep rolling around some ideas for it and if I can’t come up with a viable fix for it without making it an op nuke skill I’ll think up a suitable replacement for it.

Levitating Cat.8623:

I think personally I’d simplify your idea and tweak some things.
First of all, being able to regenerate HP and receiving heals from allies is a must in Death Shroud and should be implemented anyway, scratching the Unholy Sanctuary trait. Exactly as you propose – Regeneration boon and heals from allies should work in DS. Personal healing skills, healing utilities and even siphoning should not work in DS.
That alone would fix some issues.

No. If we have an entire trait line towards leeching, it needs to work through DS. Please refrain from advocating internal asynergy <3

Move DS skills to F2-F4. Keep weapon and utility bars in DS. Available DS skills should be based on your three spec/trait lines.