Guild Wars 2

I’ve been messing around with the Reaper today and I have to say, I’m kinda struggling to see why what the Greatsword gives you that Realer’s Shroud doesn’t. Both have strong melee autoattack, both have a gapcloser (GS5 vs RS2, except RS2 is more reliable), some defense (blinds vs Stability), some AoE, some strong bonus damage against low targets, and some Chill. The big difference is that RS still seems relatively peppy whereas the Greatsword still seems slower than is really warranted.

So I’m wondering if Greatsword has any use at all. The Dagger mainhand is still going to give you better LF generation and taking it gives you space for the Warhorn. Thoughts?

Are you serious? Reaper Shroud damage is worse than our normal weapons. Greatsword damage is not garbage. So you use the greatsword unless you need to turtle in reaper shroud to wait for a heal to not die.

Reaper Shroud is kinda bad in PvE.

Currently, GS is used for AoE LF and Gravedigger for the 50% mark. Gravedigger alone makes it fantastic, and will make it meta for pve easy. It also offers a nice built in blind with Nightfall which is very awesome (For 50 fractals that’s very nice)

RS is starting to come together, I still think It needs a buff but It’s getting close. Matched with Dhuumfire/Reaper’s Onslaught the damage is pretty nice. You also can maintain 25 stacks of vuln in reapers shroud.

To wrap this up, DO NOT use GS auto for most of anything besides gaining LF in AoE fights. It’s melee is just too slow to beat out RS auto, It has better damage plain and simple.

Truefrost.6815:

Currently, GS is used for AoE LF and Gravedigger for the 50% mark. Gravedigger alone makes it fantastic, and will make it meta for pve easy. It also offers a nice built in blind with Nightfall which is very awesome (For 50 fractals that’s very nice)

RS is starting to come together, I still think It needs a buff but It’s getting close. Matched with Dhuumfire/Reaper’s Onslaught the damage is pretty nice. You also can maintain 25 stacks of vuln in reapers shroud.

To wrap this up, DO NOT use GS auto for most of anything besides gaining LF in AoE fights. It’s melee is just too slow to beat out RS auto, It has better damage plain and simple.

GS auto outDPS’ses reaper auto. It’s just harder to land in pvp and with CC heavy mobs.

If you’re using reaper shroud for DPS, you’re gimping your DPS.

Zenith.7301:

Truefrost.6815:

Currently, GS is used for AoE LF and Gravedigger for the 50% mark. Gravedigger alone makes it fantastic, and will make it meta for pve easy. It also offers a nice built in blind with Nightfall which is very awesome (For 50 fractals that’s very nice)

RS is starting to come together, I still think It needs a buff but It’s getting close. Matched with Dhuumfire/Reaper’s Onslaught the damage is pretty nice. You also can maintain 25 stacks of vuln in reapers shroud.

To wrap this up, DO NOT use GS auto for most of anything besides gaining LF in AoE fights. It’s melee is just too slow to beat out RS auto, It has better damage plain and simple.

GS auto outDPS’ses reaper auto. It’s just harder to land in pvp and with CC heavy mobs.

If you’re using reaper shroud for DPS, you’re gimping your DPS.

RS is better. Merely because of what it offers. Perma vuln, burning, personal might stacking and a second healthbar. You are welcome to believe what you want though. GS is just too slow and not worth it in single target.

Zenith.7301:

Truefrost.6815:

Currently, GS is used for AoE LF and Gravedigger for the 50% mark. Gravedigger alone makes it fantastic, and will make it meta for pve easy. It also offers a nice built in blind with Nightfall which is very awesome (For 50 fractals that’s very nice)

RS is starting to come together, I still think It needs a buff but It’s getting close. Matched with Dhuumfire/Reaper’s Onslaught the damage is pretty nice. You also can maintain 25 stacks of vuln in reapers shroud.

To wrap this up, DO NOT use GS auto for most of anything besides gaining LF in AoE fights. It’s melee is just too slow to beat out RS auto, It has better damage plain and simple.

GS auto outDPS’ses reaper auto. It’s just harder to land in pvp and with CC heavy mobs.

If you’re using reaper shroud for DPS, you’re gimping your DPS.

Have you done proper testing to back this up?

Axelwarrior.9084:

Zenith.7301:

Truefrost.6815:

Currently, GS is used for AoE LF and Gravedigger for the 50% mark. Gravedigger alone makes it fantastic, and will make it meta for pve easy. It also offers a nice built in blind with Nightfall which is very awesome (For 50 fractals that’s very nice)

RS is starting to come together, I still think It needs a buff but It’s getting close. Matched with Dhuumfire/Reaper’s Onslaught the damage is pretty nice. You also can maintain 25 stacks of vuln in reapers shroud.

To wrap this up, DO NOT use GS auto for most of anything besides gaining LF in AoE fights. It’s melee is just too slow to beat out RS auto, It has better damage plain and simple.

GS auto outDPS’ses reaper auto. It’s just harder to land in pvp and with CC heavy mobs.

If you’re using reaper shroud for DPS, you’re gimping your DPS.

Have you done proper testing to back this up?

I’m not about to dig a thread 1-2 pages back because you people won’t bother looking up the recent coefficient postings be they by Silverkey or spoj, Red Archnid also did some as well.

Axelwarrior.9084:

Zenith.7301:

Truefrost.6815:

Currently, GS is used for AoE LF and Gravedigger for the 50% mark. Gravedigger alone makes it fantastic, and will make it meta for pve easy. It also offers a nice built in blind with Nightfall which is very awesome (For 50 fractals that’s very nice)

RS is starting to come together, I still think It needs a buff but It’s getting close. Matched with Dhuumfire/Reaper’s Onslaught the damage is pretty nice. You also can maintain 25 stacks of vuln in reapers shroud.

To wrap this up, DO NOT use GS auto for most of anything besides gaining LF in AoE fights. It’s melee is just too slow to beat out RS auto, It has better damage plain and simple.

GS auto outDPS’ses reaper auto. It’s just harder to land in pvp and with CC heavy mobs.

If you’re using reaper shroud for DPS, you’re gimping your DPS.

Have you done proper testing to back this up?

There is no need because mathematically its true that i you will do more damage with GS auto than with RS auto. The difference isnt huge. Infact its quite small if you take dhuumfire even without condi damage.

The real difference is in solo ability, high toughness mobs/ protection granting mobs, and the encounter itself. It is far more self sufficient due to being able to grant might, vuln and burn. Also any encounter where mobs will either remove/transfer debuffs, remove boons etc etc, RS would come out on top because of what it can be traited to do. Not only that but your true hp is protected while you are at it, something i feel is overlooked alot.

I will state this first before Zenith says “high end” blagh, “solo garbage blagh”, “migh and vuln redundant” blagh that in the current set of pve encounters GS will always do better because of their lazy and bad design. We have no idea what the new things in high end pve will require but we do know mobs will have better stats that scale and mechanics that may make it better to use RS rather than just auto with GS.

Zenith.7301:

Axelwarrior.9084:

Zenith.7301:

Truefrost.6815:

Currently, GS is used for AoE LF and Gravedigger for the 50% mark. Gravedigger alone makes it fantastic, and will make it meta for pve easy. It also offers a nice built in blind with Nightfall which is very awesome (For 50 fractals that’s very nice)

RS is starting to come together, I still think It needs a buff but It’s getting close. Matched with Dhuumfire/Reaper’s Onslaught the damage is pretty nice. You also can maintain 25 stacks of vuln in reapers shroud.

To wrap this up, DO NOT use GS auto for most of anything besides gaining LF in AoE fights. It’s melee is just too slow to beat out RS auto, It has better damage plain and simple.

GS auto outDPS’ses reaper auto. It’s just harder to land in pvp and with CC heavy mobs.

If you’re using reaper shroud for DPS, you’re gimping your DPS.

Have you done proper testing to back this up?

I’m not about to dig a thread 1-2 pages back because you people won’t bother looking up the recent coefficient postings be they by Silverkey or spoj, Red Archnid also did some as well.

You could simply say “yes”.
Brazil has been using RS instead of GS autoattacks in his Reaper videos, but I guess it could be for might and vuln generation.

Sigmoid.7082:

The real difference is in solo ability, high toughness mobs/ protection granting mobs, and the encounter itself. It is far more self sufficient due to being able to grant might, vuln and burn. Also any encounter where mobs will either remove/transfer debuffs, remove boons etc etc, RS would come out on top because of what it can be traited to do. Not only that but your true hp is protected while you are at it, something i feel is overlooked alot.

This is an unfair thing to point out because it only describes potential and it also costs traits/specialisations which have their own (opportunity) cost.

Tim.6450:

Sigmoid.7082:

The real difference is in solo ability, high toughness mobs/ protection granting mobs, and the encounter itself. It is far more self sufficient due to being able to grant might, vuln and burn. Also any encounter where mobs will either remove/transfer debuffs, remove boons etc etc, RS would come out on top because of what it can be traited to do. Not only that but your true hp is protected while you are at it, something i feel is overlooked alot.

This is an unfair thing to point out because it only describes potential and it also costs traits/specialisations which have their own (opportunity) cost.

No point to compare this let alone anything in a vacuum because thats the most unrealistic situation there is. The comparison may be “unfair” but its more realistic.

Besides, the standard reaper PvE spec already includes the traits Sigmoid is referencing because there are no better trait alternatives for PvE.

You cannot drop soul reaping because of the 5% damage modifier over the lf threshold, and you cannot drop spite because you lose 5% damage against mobs with no boons and 20% extra damage against targets below 50% hp.

Spite comes with the might on shroud 1 as a minor.

With soul reaping you will take unyielding blast because the alternatives are useless in PvE.

The only difference in build might involve Dhuumfire vs. Deathly Perception. You’ll use Dhuumfire in a group setting where 25 stacks of vulnerability have 100% uptime, but in an environment where vuln is not being stacked at high uptimes you might opt for Deathly Perception if you’re failing to cap crit.

Reaper Shroud is merely useful for Executioner’s Scythe for the frost field and occasionally the stability. Otherwise it’s just a form you turtle in to mitigate damage at a DPS loss.

Either way I disagree with Sigmoid in perspective. Reaper Shroud should be an undisputed upgrade in DPS. It is accessed by a resource you NEED TO BUILD UP, and it’s your class mechanic.

I don’t recall warrior burst skills nerfing their DPS nor any class except the mesmer’s shatter, which people already complain about in PvE.

Why should our class mechanic be any different? There should be a reward to building life force other than “go in this form to not die”.

Sigmoid.7082:

Tim.6450:

Sigmoid.7082:

The real difference is in solo ability, high toughness mobs/ protection granting mobs, and the encounter itself. It is far more self sufficient due to being able to grant might, vuln and burn. Also any encounter where mobs will either remove/transfer debuffs, remove boons etc etc, RS would come out on top because of what it can be traited to do. Not only that but your true hp is protected while you are at it, something i feel is overlooked alot.

This is an unfair thing to point out because it only describes potential and it also costs traits/specialisations which have their own (opportunity) cost.

You are going to take just the one spec and compare GS auto to RS auto because you have two other specs. If you are going to build around shroud you will take SR because thats the shroud modding line hence why its used in the comparison.

No point to compare this let alone anything in a vacuum because thats the most unrealistic situation there is.

The problem with that reasning is that by doing this that RS #1 will be only viable in a spite/soulreaping/reaper spec with dhuumfire and unyealding. Don’t ever think to take death magic or blood magic or using FitG because suddenly your RS#1 will lose those traits that made it balanced/competive. Skills have to be able to stand on their own especially class mechanic skills.

Tim.6450:

Sigmoid.7082:

Tim.6450:

Sigmoid.7082:

The real difference is in solo ability, high toughness mobs/ protection granting mobs, and the encounter itself. It is far more self sufficient due to being able to grant might, vuln and burn. Also any encounter where mobs will either remove/transfer debuffs, remove boons etc etc, RS would come out on top because of what it can be traited to do. Not only that but your true hp is protected while you are at it, something i feel is overlooked alot.

This is an unfair thing to point out because it only describes potential and it also costs traits/specialisations which have their own (opportunity) cost.

You are going to take just the one spec and compare GS auto to RS auto because you have two other specs. If you are going to build around shroud you will take SR because thats the shroud modding line hence why its used in the comparison.

No point to compare this let alone anything in a vacuum because thats the most unrealistic situation there is.

The problem with that reasning is that by doing this that RS #1 will be only viable in a spite/soulreaping/reaper spec with dhuumfire and unyealding. Don’t ever think to take death magic or blood magic or using FitG because suddenly your RS#1 will lose those traits that made it balanced/competive. Skills have to be able to stand on their own especially class mechanic skills.

Its because for now they are the best lines we have for PvE, for both condi and power builds. Even as condi you may drop spite for curses some some of the stuff in there and rely on others for might and vuln. FitG isnt a choice as a reaper because of RS#3 as well and lower cooldown stunbreak on the shout.

Either way I disagree with Sigmoid in perspective. Reaper Shroud should be an undisputed upgrade in DPS. It is accessed by a resource you NEED TO BUILD UP, and it’s your class mechanic.
I don’t recall warrior burst skills nerfing their DPS nor any class except the mesmer’s shatter, which people already complain about in PvE.
Why should our class mechanic be any different? There should be a reward to building life force other than “go in this form to not die”.

I would say because being able to do comparable damage while having more utility on the ability ( might , vuln, burn ) while not taking any true damage is why. The damage really isnt that much lower but the utility is much higher.

Again i would disagree with comparing class mechanics like that. Also DS auto was lower dps than fighting outside of it already. RS really isnt different in that regard.

Guess we have differing opinions but such is life More opinions is better for rounded feedback as it is.

If they put a damage modifier on Blood Magic I’ll drop Soul Reaping without blinking.

I want my 20% cd reduction and protection from wells and Last Rites. If they ever get around to improving Vampiric Presence and Life Siphon, it’d be our best group support line.

Shouts are garbage so we still use well of suffering+corruption and signet of spite for our utilities.

I also think Quickening Thirst should apply to greatsword as well, Necromancer is so slow without signet of the locust, I miss running on my dagger mainhand set with quickening thirst ;(

With Dhuumfire GS is only ahead slightly, let’s not even count the fact It’s auto is hella slow and offers nothing. As I mentioned before, RS is gonna end better because of what it offers.

There is zero reason to take DP while you have decimate defenses. Reaper can sustain 25 vuln on It’s own. Which is 100% up time in RS. DP is pointless, Dhuumfire is the way to go.

As I’ve said in other posts. I still think RS should be buffed. It’s just a bit too weak, I understand Anet knows It offers a lot… But I feel like RS should still do more damage. It is our class mechanic and we’re already behind in damage vs other class.

Sigmoid.7082:

Tim.6450:

Sigmoid.7082:

Tim.6450:

Sigmoid.7082:

The real difference is in solo ability, high toughness mobs/ protection granting mobs, and the encounter itself. It is far more self sufficient due to being able to grant might, vuln and burn. Also any encounter where mobs will either remove/transfer debuffs, remove boons etc etc, RS would come out on top because of what it can be traited to do. Not only that but your true hp is protected while you are at it, something i feel is overlooked alot.

This is an unfair thing to point out because it only describes potential and it also costs traits/specialisations which have their own (opportunity) cost.

You are going to take just the one spec and compare GS auto to RS auto because you have two other specs. If you are going to build around shroud you will take SR because thats the shroud modding line hence why its used in the comparison.

No point to compare this let alone anything in a vacuum because thats the most unrealistic situation there is.

The problem with that reasning is that by doing this that RS #1 will be only viable in a spite/soulreaping/reaper spec with dhuumfire and unyealding. Don’t ever think to take death magic or blood magic or using FitG because suddenly your RS#1 will lose those traits that made it balanced/competive. Skills have to be able to stand on their own especially class mechanic skills.

Its because for now they are the best lines we have for PvE, for both condi and power builds. Even as condi you may drop spite for curses some some of the stuff in there and rely on others for might and vuln. FitG isnt a choice as a reaper because of RS#3 as well and lower cooldown stunbreak on the shout.

I drop soul reaping for pve for my condi build and I’m very keen on dropping soulreaping for blood magic in PvE (I like my quadruple well build) so there goes dhuum fire and unyealding blast. FitG isnt a choice as a reaper is certainly a choice for reapers since reaper shroud #3 has a window of 14 seconds without stability.

When ppl say u gimping your Dps by useing RS instead of GS Iam guessing/hopeing u talk about PvE cause in noway can u spam ANY skills on GS vs actually players that u can with RS.

RS is faster, actually lands, have much more potential and have good dmg when u fight players but u are VERY LUCKY to land even 1 Gravedigger on a player. Grave digger now has a dmg that finally makes that reward worth it tho when u actually land. But RS has the potential to stay on target like no other Necro mechanic and all it needs is abit of buff on AA and something done about its drain-ratio…

I personnaly used :

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRBIhtG1JzmQ1mY7mg3NA9mYRbwmCAJgDQcEcDGCpGBpgGFA-TRxFgAoq/Yr8DQJYm+hv9HAA-e

BM/SR/RP
In PvE it give you almost to much sustain on top of more than enough damage. You just have to build LF and jump in RS as soon as you can. RS#2 and RS#4 are devastating, love them they are awesome.
I don’t like GS… the more I try to use it the more I don’t like it. I think it’s just bad affinity.

Zenith.7301:

Are you serious? Reaper Shroud damage is worse than our normal weapons. Greatsword damage is not garbage. So you use the greatsword unless you need to turtle in reaper shroud to wait for a heal to not die.

Reaper Shroud is kinda bad in PvE.

I’m not talking about numbers, but rather about functionality. We don’t seem to get anything from Reaper’ Shroud that we don’t get from Greatsword and vice versa; this means that one will always be fundamentally worse than the other. If the Greatsword is worse, then it’s not worth using. If RS is worse, then it’s only worth using because we’re stuck with it.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Zenith.7301:

Are you serious? Reaper Shroud damage is worse than our normal weapons. Greatsword damage is not garbage. So you use the greatsword unless you need to turtle in reaper shroud to wait for a heal to not die.

Reaper Shroud is kinda bad in PvE.

I’m not talking about numbers, but rather about functionality. We don’t seem to get anything from Reaper’ Shroud that we don’t get from Greatsword and vice versa; this means that one will always be fundamentally worse than the other. If the Greatsword is worse, then it’s not worth using. If RS is worse, then it’s only worth using because we’re stuck with it.

The idea is that since Reaper’s Shroud is a resource that needs to be earned, it should deal more damage and greatsword is what you use when you are out of life force. Think of it as a super mode in RPG, you fight normally and charge up, when you have enough resource then you use it in a burst to deal increased damage. Then when the mode is over, you have to earn it again to get the damage boost back. That should be the original intention and thus not really redundant.

Warscythes.9307:

Blaine Tog.8304:

Zenith.7301:

Are you serious? Reaper Shroud damage is worse than our normal weapons. Greatsword damage is not garbage. So you use the greatsword unless you need to turtle in reaper shroud to wait for a heal to not die.

Reaper Shroud is kinda bad in PvE.

I’m not talking about numbers, but rather about functionality. We don’t seem to get anything from Reaper’ Shroud that we don’t get from Greatsword and vice versa; this means that one will always be fundamentally worse than the other. If the Greatsword is worse, then it’s not worth using. If RS is worse, then it’s only worth using because we’re stuck with it.

The idea is that since Reaper’s Shroud is a resource that needs to be earned, it should deal more damage and greatsword is what you use when you are out of life force. Think of it as a super mode in RPG, you fight normally and charge up, when you have enough resource then you use it in a burst to deal increased damage. Then when the mode is over, you have to earn it again to get the damage boost back. That should be the original intention and thus not really redundant.

I disagree with this analogy because of how quick you can generate lf and how long you can stay shrouded. Super states only last a short while and have long cooldowns. If shroud had a set, low duration and a long cooldown then that would be fine and it could do more damage that anything else we have. This is not the case. Only changes it needs is #2 fixed to not rubber band and be smooth, #4 and #5 to do a tad more damage and that should be it IMHO.

Sigmoid.7082:

Warscythes.9307:

Blaine Tog.8304:

Zenith.7301:

Are you serious? Reaper Shroud damage is worse than our normal weapons. Greatsword damage is not garbage. So you use the greatsword unless you need to turtle in reaper shroud to wait for a heal to not die.

Reaper Shroud is kinda bad in PvE.

I’m not talking about numbers, but rather about functionality. We don’t seem to get anything from Reaper’ Shroud that we don’t get from Greatsword and vice versa; this means that one will always be fundamentally worse than the other. If the Greatsword is worse, then it’s not worth using. If RS is worse, then it’s only worth using because we’re stuck with it.

The idea is that since Reaper’s Shroud is a resource that needs to be earned, it should deal more damage and greatsword is what you use when you are out of life force. Think of it as a super mode in RPG, you fight normally and charge up, when you have enough resource then you use it in a burst to deal increased damage. Then when the mode is over, you have to earn it again to get the damage boost back. That should be the original intention and thus not really redundant.

I disagree with this analogy because of how quick you can generate lf and how long you can stay shrouded. Super states only last a short while and have long cooldowns. If shroud had a set, low duration and a long cooldown then that would be fine and it could do more damage that anything else we have. This is not the case. Only changes it needs is #2 fixed to not rubber band and be smooth, #4 and #5 to do a tad more damage and that should be it IMHO.

It’s a 10 second cooldown and I don’t know in what current PvE or PvP/WvW encounter you will be able to camp it.

Nobody’s asking for a Lich or Rampage on a 10 second cooldown, just that it not be a DPS loss to normal weapons you can use all the time without restrictions.

Zenith.7301:

Sigmoid.7082:

Warscythes.9307:

Blaine Tog.8304:

Zenith.7301:

Are you serious? Reaper Shroud damage is worse than our normal weapons. Greatsword damage is not garbage. So you use the greatsword unless you need to turtle in reaper shroud to wait for a heal to not die.

Reaper Shroud is kinda bad in PvE.

I’m not talking about numbers, but rather about functionality. We don’t seem to get anything from Reaper’ Shroud that we don’t get from Greatsword and vice versa; this means that one will always be fundamentally worse than the other. If the Greatsword is worse, then it’s not worth using. If RS is worse, then it’s only worth using because we’re stuck with it.

The idea is that since Reaper’s Shroud is a resource that needs to be earned, it should deal more damage and greatsword is what you use when you are out of life force. Think of it as a super mode in RPG, you fight normally and charge up, when you have enough resource then you use it in a burst to deal increased damage. Then when the mode is over, you have to earn it again to get the damage boost back. That should be the original intention and thus not really redundant.

I disagree with this analogy because of how quick you can generate lf and how long you can stay shrouded. Super states only last a short while and have long cooldowns. If shroud had a set, low duration and a long cooldown then that would be fine and it could do more damage that anything else we have. This is not the case. Only changes it needs is #2 fixed to not rubber band and be smooth, #4 and #5 to do a tad more damage and that should be it IMHO.

It’s a 10 second cooldown and I don’t know in what current PvE or PvP/WvW encounter you will be able to camp it.

Nobody’s asking for a Lich or Rampage on a 10 second cooldown, just that it not be a DPS loss to normal weapons you can use all the time without restrictions.

(With the super state analogy……10s ist long at all. Super states have long cooldowns.)

But thats the entire point a few people have made. The first one is that its not much of a dps loss if at all situation dependent , secondly that dps isnt everything and shroud offers stuff normal weapons cant do; it has a lot of utility and can be traited for more and allows you not to take true damage while still dishing quite a lot out.

If it has similar dps yet more utility then what would be the point in normal weapons?

Its probably going to be easier to agree to disagree with you.

But it’s not similar DPS. It’s similar DPS to the greatsword auto alone. Mixed with Greatsword auto+ Gravedigger every 8 seconds, it’s a DPS loss. And that’s above 50% health.

Unfortunately DPS is everything in PvE in a game with no real trinity. I don’t know what your raiding experience in previous games is, but I don’t know how else to communicate to you that more DPS is never redundant and utility is only necessary to the point where you can bring the least amount required to complete an encounter while maximizing DPS.

Warscythes.9307:

Blaine Tog.8304:

Zenith.7301:

Are you serious? Reaper Shroud damage is worse than our normal weapons. Greatsword damage is not garbage. So you use the greatsword unless you need to turtle in reaper shroud to wait for a heal to not die.

Reaper Shroud is kinda bad in PvE.

I’m not talking about numbers, but rather about functionality. We don’t seem to get anything from Reaper’ Shroud that we don’t get from Greatsword and vice versa; this means that one will always be fundamentally worse than the other. If the Greatsword is worse, then it’s not worth using. If RS is worse, then it’s only worth using because we’re stuck with it.

The idea is that since Reaper’s Shroud is a resource that needs to be earned, it should deal more damage and greatsword is what you use when you are out of life force. Think of it as a super mode in RPG, you fight normally and charge up, when you have enough resource then you use it in a burst to deal increased damage. Then when the mode is over, you have to earn it again to get the damage boost back. That should be the original intention and thus not really redundant.

No, it absolutely is redundant. If it offers the same functionality except better, than you’d be better off with a regular weapon set that offered different functionality (thus giving you more total options) and faster Life Force generation, which Dagger/Warhorn would give you.

Sigmoid.7082:

I disagree with this analogy because of how quick you can generate lf and how long you can stay shrouded. Super states only last a short while and have long cooldowns. If shroud had a set, low duration and a long cooldown then that would be fine and it could do more damage that anything else we have. This is not the case. Only changes it needs is #2 fixed to not rubber band and be smooth, #4 and #5 to do a tad more damage and that should be it IMHO.

It shouldn’t be Lich Form-level damage but it should give you a small DPS boost since it’s somewhat limited.