Guild Wars 2

bumping to fix forum bug

If using axe as primary weapon, is there anything you would change as far as traits go? I just prefer axe, even if I know the DPS will not be the same.

Also, it’s not exactly clear, but was this guide current (meta at this writing) as of the December (2013) balance patch?

Yep its still up to date. Yeah if you do use axe a lot you could swap chill of death for axe mastery. I dont recommend using axe primarily so thats why I didnt mention it. But if thats what you want to use then axe mastery would definately be better than chill of death when using axe.

Thanks a lot spoj. Glad to see my choice to swap traits was correct.

She just reached 80 and now that I have been able to gear her in exotics I can start to appreciate the power of this build. A bit weak in crowds (although golem or plague blind spamming helps for that), but a lot of fun. Vets melt, and champs can easily be soloed.

Hi everyone. First off , I’m completely new to GW2 and never played The original one. I’m having the toughest time with all casters on this game so thanks for this guide it does help the learning some. I’ve played most classes to level 20 so far except the warrior or guardian or whatever it is and any caster. And I just can’t get through much as any of the three casters without dying a lot. It’s a very different play style compared to most mmorpg I’ve played. Generally I can’t do enough damage compared to what I’m taking. And I can’t even kill skelks or whatever they are called. The little swamp creature things that regen. They gain health faster then I can damage.

I have many questions still. But one big one Is what does this if you want to be min/max I see in many threads on classes abilities mean? It’s often related to builds or skills and equipment choices.

So what exactly is being min/max? What does this refer too? And why does it affect what I want on my character? In a post by dalanor to a question he said " if you are not a min/max type of guy take a necro. ". Also the original guide post says “to min/max damage Take berserker armor.” Just trying to understand what is meant.

Also to any that read this, if you could use a little less of the acronyms and special lingo I’d appreciate it. I know it’s done to save time and most people know what’s meant. But it’s just hard for me to follow as I know little to nothing about this game at all. Been playing maybe a week or so now. Thanks in advance for any info provided.

When we talk about min/maxing we mean we are trying to be as efficient as possible. This means squeezing as much dps out of the classes as possible and minimizing wasted stats and traits. What dalanor meant was that necro isnt the best class if you want to min/max for pve because its a very selfish class and is one of the least efficient classes in pve. However you can min/max the necro to be as efficient as possible even if another class would be better. Essentially if you really want to play necro because you enjoy the class but you still want to be efficient then go for it, but just be aware that other classes are better for maximizing efficiency. Sorry if that seemed a bit wordy. Hope that answers your question.

Thanks Spoj. That was explained very well. And it helped me understand why things were changing around depending on groups or solo and stuff.

Another question from the guide is what is meant by "equip your stacking weapons when about to clear trash mobs and then switch to main dps weapons once fully stacked. ". Does this refer to conditions or something? What are " stacking weapons"? It’s mentioned a few times.

Stacking weapons are weapons with stacking sigils such as bloodlust or perception. These give you stacks which increase your power or precision for every mob killed with them up to a maximum of 25 stacks. For perception 1 stack is equal to 10 precison, so with 25 stacks you have 250 extra precison. You cant stack perception and bloodlust at the same time or one after the other. The game only allows you to have one type of stack on you at any one time.

If you use a mainhand and an offhand with the same stacking sigils (so two perception sigils) you can get 2 stacks per kill. These stacks remain on you until you change instance or get downed. So you can fully stack up on groups of easy trash mobs and then switch back to your main weapons so you have more dps. There are many dungeons where stacking isnt really possible. So dont worry about it too much.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil#Stacking_on-kill_effect

Cool. Thanks again. I sort of saw that wiki section, and have been reading up on sigils as well. Just wasn’t sure what all was meant. But that cleared up a lot. Was about ready to give up on necro before I found this guide. So just trying to get as much out of it as I can. Already gave up on the elementalist. I Had no idea that switching up mid battle was a useful or required way to play and stuff.

Thanks for the explanations. Very much appreciated.

Ele is one of the more tricky classes to get used to. But they are pretty rewarding once you do. They feel really weak while leveling until you get the lightning hammer. Although thats a rather simple and boring way to play. If you decide to give ele another go I would refer you to zelyhns or DEkeyz guides in the ele subforum.

Anyway goodluck on finding a class to level all the way.

Yeah I found out the elemental class was quite different and difficult when I just jumped into the game. I will definitely check out those guides as I’ll give the ele class a try again. Once I started reading on the ways to play the class I figured it would be of benefit for me to play other so to say easier classes just to get a grip on this game and the mechanics and stuff.

Thanks for all the help.

Out of curiosity, how viable is this build in PvE compared to other classes? I just came back after a year break because I got bored; used to play a thief. I decided to swap from Thief -> to Necro due to the fact that the condition build back then isn’t as viable anymore compared to the pure power/crit and the fact I don’t want to change all my gear ;_;.

With that all and said, how would you rank this build for DPS compared to say… Engineer, thief, etc. Also, is going scepter/dagger or staff any good (condition wise), or would this build still be better? One other thing, how well does D/D do?

Well currently the main downside to necro is they bring nothing special other than dps and thats not good enough to warrant taking them in dungeons over other classes if you have the choice.

Currently the ranking for dps is something like ele and thief way up top. Mesmer with phantasms maintained not far behind. Then all the rest are quite a bit lower but around the same compared to each other. With guard being a bit higher, closely followed by warrior and necro. Ranger is a bit lower and engi is at the bottom. This is purely a dps ranking under optimal conditions with full buffs. In real play it would be a bit different depending on how well your group shares buffs. Something necro cant do very well.

As far as conditon goes, its pretty terrible in many dungeons. But seeing as necro isnt in a great place anyway If you really enjoy conditions you may aswell stick to it. Just bare in mind its completely useless for dungeons like coe and some fights in other dungeons. And when pugging you may lose alot of damage to other condition spec players.

spoj.9672:

Well currently the main downside to necro is they bring nothing special other than dps and thats not good enough to warrant taking them in dungeons over other classes if you have the choice.

Currently the ranking for dps is something like ele and thief way up top. Mesmer with phantasms maintained not far behind. Then all the rest are quite a bit lower but around the same compared to each other. With guard being a bit higher, closely followed by warrior and necro. Ranger is a bit lower and engi is at the bottom. This is purely a dps ranking under optimal conditions with full buffs. In real play it would be a bit different depending on how well your group shares buffs. Something necro cant do very well.

As far as conditon goes, its pretty terrible in many dungeons. But seeing as necro isnt in a great place anyway If you really enjoy conditions you may aswell stick to it. Just bare in mind its completely useless for dungeons like coe and some fights in other dungeons. And when pugging you may lose alot of damage to other condition spec players.

Interesting. Well, I’ll stick to it anyway. I’m enjoy the class quite a bit, it’s almost similar to my thief in a sense. I just get all down when I see people saying “Zerk Necro is the worst DPS.” Note: I saw this on other forums when I was looking over Engineer/thief and deciding if I should continue Necro. They put Necro at like bottom.

spoj, thanks for this guide and your comments.
Since I am very new to necro, this info is a great resource.

I leveled a condition necro specifically for the new 3-headed wurm world boss event in Bloodtide Coast. If you are familar with this event, 3 parties of 4-5 conditionmancers are required (1 party for each wurm head) to deal with the champ husk spawns.

These champs have a huge buff vs direct damage, so the only way to take them down efficiently is with condition damage. Thus the need for a party of heavy condition damage builds with nercos and engineers. This is all we do, take down husks, then do what we can during phase 2 on the decapitated head.

I know you focus on PvE power DPS builds, but anything you might suggest for min/max necro condition build would be great.

This is what I current use during the wurm event:

Armour: all carrion with runes of the scavenger
Trinkets: all rabid with crest of the rabid
Weapons: all rampager scepter (bursting) / dagger (corruption) with staff (force)
All of the above are exotic.

Buffs: toxic focusing crystals / super veggie pizza

Build: 30/30/0/0/10
Spiteful Spirit; Spiteful Marks; Dhuumfire
Weakening Shroud; Master of Corruption; Lingering Curse
Vital Persistence

Healing: Consume Conditions,
Utilities: Signet of Spite, Corrosive Poison Cloud, Epidemic, Plague

When not doing the Wurm event, I swap out to dagger/warhorn and axe/focus and change trait options to something more like your power build. I do not re-trait as I do the Wurm event almost every day .

You use pretty much what I use for that event. So you are definately on the right track.

The only changes I would make is in spite I would take chill of death instead of spiteful marks and signet mastery instead of spiteful spirit if you use SoV and SoS. SoV is actually pretty effective at nuking the husks when enough people are hitting it. On curses I would probably swap lingering curse for hemophilia. As this will effect all sources of bleeds (including weakening shroud). Lingering curse is hardly worth it. Finally for soul reaping I take path of midnight. This trait is so good for every type of necro build so i pretty much always have it. You have lower cd on tainted shackles and dark path which is really nice when you get lots of husks grouped up.

For utilities I personally used SoV for heal but consume works well aswell. Blood is power is really good so I ran that along with epidemic and signet of spite. However I didnt think about CPC so that is actually a pretty good choice instead of signet of spite. Plague is nice for the defense but i ended up running golem for the burn phases and the cc.

Carrion with rabid trinkets and rampager weapons was the combo i found most effective for regular mobs when trying to optimize condi damage. However on husks If you truly want to maximise just for them you should probably go full dire + scavenger (I dont think its worth it because even on the defense team you help with the grubs aswell as husks and having crit chance improves your extra bleed procs). Also keep in the mind the damage difference isnt going to be noticable enough so you may aswell stick to carrion + rabid. Especially as its only one encounter in the whole game and carrion + rabid would be more effective than dire in other parts of the game.

Thanks for the quick response and suggestions!
This was my first condition build. so good to know I was on the right track!

I looked into Dire, but figured it wasn’t worth the difference, and yes, I did want to try some other content in the game on this necro besides the wurm event. Carrion/rabid/rampager seemed the better mix.

I like the necro class so far, at least for group content, but not a fan of the minions. If I want a pet, I will play my ranger.

Thanks for the suggestions, and will give them a go when next at wurm.

“use whatever utilities you need and you should adapt for each situation.”

Quote of the game for every proffesion!

Anyway thanks have been looking for some build inspiration for my necro as he approaches 80

So Brazil did a video version of the max dps version of the build. For those of you who like to see the core info in video format here it is: http://youtu.be/RgRH-tiRSjU

I recommend path of midnight instead of speed of shadows. Simply because tainted shackles is a dps increase. But its up to you. Everything else in the video is correct.

Solaristics.4692:

Out of curiosity, how viable is this build in PvE compared to other classes? I just came back after a year break because I got bored; used to play a thief. I decided to swap from Thief -> to Necro due to the fact that the condition build back then isn’t as viable anymore compared to the pure power/crit and the fact I don’t want to change all my gear ;_;.

With that all and said, how would you rank this build for DPS compared to say… Engineer, thief, etc. Also, is going scepter/dagger or staff any good (condition wise), or would this build still be better? One other thing, how well does D/D do?

Just my own 2 cents but with this build I can solo champs in PvE I love, love, love this build.

i might try it if i ever actualy care to run a non minion master build on my necro (was building a full arah armor zerker set for fun as an alternative to my minion master power toughness Healing power set wich prety much overheal all damage within seconds) I always find interesting to read about meta build even if i wont necesarely use them.

This build look like something interesting but i dont like having to go to melee range at all time for my dps more then necesary as i prefer to circle around placing debuffs on mobs spamming regeneration and focus vulnerability for my pets to get things done right. Id rather leave the melee role to warrior guardians and thief and im willing to part way with damage for a sustain build necro.

By default the heal rate for this necro build must also be quite unforgiving, necromancer heal / total health is terrible unless specialised for attrition and you are way less likely to recover from a hit using a glass cannon necromancer then a warrior or a guardian. Of course a build defence/damage ratio is based on the skill of the player who use it so if you can matrix dodge you will be all right anyway and wont need to heal constantly. I dodge fine but i prefer minimised risk with fairly good results when it comes to spellcasters.

You can run some minions with this build and use an axe on one of the weapon sets to suit your needs. I merely posted the optimal way to play it but feel free to adapt it as you see fit.

Are you going to update this for April 15?

Yep will be updating at some point this week. I need time to check things though.

Looking for a decent Fractal build if that is possible. Right now I am more power based than condi and I am in DS as often as I can. It works for me but I am always looking to improve or try new things.
(edit = My group are just getting close to doing level 20’s so nothing fanatical yet)

Im leaning towards 30/30/0/0/10 power as the probable new meta. I need to check if the 50 precision is worth more than 50 ferocity though.

Hey Spoj I can’t wait to see your update. I have totally enjoyed your original build. Thanks so much for continuing to post here.

Guide is updated. 6/6/0/0/2 is now superior in almost every situation.

Luv you man.Awesome job

Question:I’m kinda noob in necros but,would it be a really bad idea if on staff we dont use sigil of energy but perception.I’m asking because of the aoe

Updated the quick reference link at the end of the guide.

Is it still worth to use Signet of Spite? It only gives you 80 Power instead of 180.

Russelus.1397:

Is it still worth to use Signet of Spite? It only gives you 80 Power instead of 180.

Are you sure your not in a low level zone and being downscaled? Wouldnt make sense for them to nerf the passive on 1 signet and leave all other signet passives untouched.

Edit: If you were in Vigil keep when checking that would explain it. Gendarran fields is a lvl 30 zone and it scales down signets to 80 stat points instead of 180.

And yes its still worth taking the signet for the passive power even when downscaled. Theres not many other options. If you need more utility then you can swap it but otherwise you may aswell use it.

Do you recommend using Blood is Power now that it will still apply self-bleed with nothing targeted? Seems like the might stacks might be somewhat offset by the increased likelihood that you’ll lose the 10% scholar bonus – not quite sure what to think about this.

Love the build and guide by the way, been following this forum for a while. Got six 80’s but picked necro for primary purely based on how much fun I had playing a powermancer.

~Azrael.3805

You shouldnt lose much if you keep the bleeds on you. Plus they can still be used to get extra healing out of consume. Even if you dont heal and you take no extra damage from other sources the bleeds should never account for more than 10% of your hp. And the regen from focus should counteract any bleed damage you take. Just be aware of your scholar bonus when considering to cleanse/heal the bleeds.

Thanks for the advice, Spoj! I’m also curious what you like to use the staff + dps sigil for – you only really mention staff for cc while skipping in the build guide, and presumably you would use the staff + energy sigil for that.

~Azrael.3805

You have 2 sigil slots now so you may aswell take a dps sigil with the energy sigil. Also means it will be slightly better for wvw. My staff has force + energy so i can use it effectively in wvw. Also if you want to lifeblast stuff for whatever reason then having a dps sigil on a staff is good for that.

Hi Spoj, i don’t like very much zerker builds. I know that is the current meta, but because of this I do not like it very much, I want to use something different but not useless in dungeons or fractals.
What do you think about a DS build with valkyre (focused on might) set for dungeons and fractals?

I dont really see the difference. Your gear is just a reflection of how much damage you expect to take. If you are an experienced player and comfortable with the encounters then there is no reason to use valkyrie instead of berserker. You can use more defensive gear with this build if thats what you feel you need to do. Its completely up to you. Id personally never recommend DS camping builds for pve and especially fractals where you probably will be forced out of DS a lot of the time, but if you want to play one you can. Theres no real benefit to a might stacking build seeing as you cant grant might to your teammates.

Other alternative builds for fractals that I would recommend over DS camping builds are condi builds. They arent perfect but they are effective enough in fractals and pretty safe in pug groups. But using condi in certain dungeons will render you completely useless in a few cases. Some dungeons have bosses which permanently clear condis or are completely immune to conditions and other times your groups will just overwrite your stacks.

This is an incredible guide all around. Thanks for reigniting my love of Necro. Quick question, though: Would Runes of the Ranger work well for this build alongside a Flesh Golem elite? My Necro is considered a secondary character and I don’t want to invest in Scholar runes.

One quick question: Sigil of Bloodlust or Perception? and why?

I did the math and perception is almost always better. The only time bloodlust is slightly better is when you have a ranger providing spotter. Necro tends to lack crit chance without perception and precision food. Different situations call for slightly different combinations but for simplicity I would just recommend precision food and perception most of the time.

@Makai
Ranger runes still work. I removed them from the list of options in the guide because they require a companion now. Flesh golem wont always be alive or wise to use in some situations so you would lose the bonus. However there is a bug where mini pets cause the bonus. So you could just carry a mini pet around and use ranger runes without issue. I didnt include this in the guide because it may be fixed soon.

This is probably a dumb question but you mentioned stacking perception with another weapon. But if I already have Strength on both warhorn and Focus, and Force on Dagger… How can I keep the stacks if the sigil is on another weapon? If I unequip that weapon the stacks will go away. So do I need to take off a sigil of strength for the perception ..or?

Put a perception sigil on your underwater weapon and you wont lose the stacks when you unequip your terrestrial weapon with perception.

Why strength sigils instead of +10% dmg?

Your mainhand would have +10% unless you are running force. You can put force or another 10% in your offhands if you want. But most groups who run with a necro arent going to perma cap might so strength is pretty nice for necro. Locust swarm + str runes work really well together. Its up to you what dps sigils you use.

I tend to only use my necro for solos so i only have offhands with energy sigils. But strength runes are a nice dps offhand sigil which will work well even in daytime dungeons.

Would it be a big loss to drop 2 out of SR and 1 out of Curses to get 3 Blood magic and vampiric precision + vampiric? I really like the small but steady sustain it gives and it’s also a free 36-80 armor ignoring dmg which with the fast dagger AA speed and WoS ticks is quite often.
I’m crap at math myself and can’t calculate these kinds of things properly, I just know that now that I’m playing your build I really miss those small dmg and heal numbers floating around :P

You would lose damage. But if you really want that sustain then that trait setup would be fine. And the damage wouldnt be too much to worry about in casual runs. 6/5/0/3/0 is the lifesteal variant i recommend if someone absolutely wants to lifesteal.

Thanks for the reply. Good to know it won’t be horrible if I choose to use vampiric

spoj, thanks for updating the guide!

Now for questions …

I posted earlier regarding a condimancer build for dealing with husks at the Wurm event. With the 15th April changes, I was wondering if what you suggested 3 months ago still holds?

Also related to the Wurm event …

Seems all Wurm spit can now be blocked, this includes the spit that spawns husks. The guilds that regularly do the Wurm event don’t know if this is a bug, or permanent stealth change. Regardless, with enough ele’s (or classes with point-capture prevention skills) this means fewer or no husk spawns, so little or no need for condimancers.

I have been doing this event for many months, with over 90 Wurm kills, as a condimancer, Now my guild now wants all the necros in the condition teams to go ‘zerker dps’, when necessary, but still have our condition builds available if some husks spawn.

As stupid as this seems to me, along with trying to completely swap out armour, trinkets, weapons and traits in the middle of a Wurm event, I thought I would ask if your DPS necro build would be a starting point for this.

Well yeah. 6/6/0/0/2 is the ideal trait allocation for both zerker and condi necro. So that simplifies switching a little. You can also just use condi necro traits on the zerker build and it wont affect you too much (just swap close to death).

My opinion on optimal condi necro has changed btw. You now go full rabid with aristocracy runes and a sigil of battle. And run 2-3 signets and BiP (2 if you need epidemic).