Guild Wars 2

fixing forum bug

spoj.9672:

Well yeah. 6/6/0/0/2 is the ideal trait allocation for both zerker and condi necro. So that simplifies switching a little. You can also just use condi necro traits on the zerker build and it wont affect you too much (just swap close to death).

My opinion on optimal condi necro has changed btw. You now go full rabid with aristocracy runes and a sigil of battle. And run 2-3 signets and BiP (2 if you need epidemic).

Thanks for the reply!

Yup, still using 6/6/0/02, with carrion armour / scavager runes, rabid trinkets, and rampager weapons.

Will look into full rabid.

Cheers!

Are Ogre runes not more viable than ruby orbs? And as a side, can anyone confirm that the Ranger runes + mini bug still works?

Theres no point wasting gold on ogre runes. Just go straight for scholar or ranger runes. Even eagle runes would be better than ogre. Ruby orbs are bad but if you dont have any money then they are basically the no cost alternative until you can afford scholar. The 4th bonus on ogre runes is just terrible and then the 6th is pretty weak compared to other dps runes so I would never recommend them. Best to save your gold for a bit longer and get the best.

I havent tested ranger runes since the last patch, but i havent heard anyone mention it being fixed. So it probably still works.

Hey spoj, you are getting very popular. Whenever I use dagger on my mainhand in PvE I always get asked if I am running spoj’s stuff, or I really should run if I wasn’t already running. Anyway, I was looking at the wiki today and noticed that Banshee’s Wail is listed as bugged: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Banshee%27s_Wail
It says, and I can confirm upon testing a bit, that traited Locust Swarm only damages foes for 12 seconds instead of 15 seconds, but the AoE cripple application and Swiftness last for 15 seconds. You will probably say that it is still good, but it was one of my favorite traits and realizing the bug disappointed me to use it in PvE. What alternatives can you suggest instead? Thank you.

Its still good just for the cooldown reduction. I thought they fixed that bug, obviously not. :<

For alternative traits withering precision or focused rituals can be decent. Spectral attunement is nice if you run with spectral walk a lot. And if you are using Well of Darkness then chilling darkness is another nice trait to have.

Spoj The Second.7680:

Put a perception sigil on your underwater weapon and you wont lose the stacks when you unequip your terrestrial weapon with perception.

Does this still work?

nin.1029:

Spoj The Second.7680:

Put a perception sigil on your underwater weapon and you wont lose the stacks when you unequip your terrestrial weapon with perception.

Does this still work?

Nope. There is a way to keep stacks and change weapons but its not possible in most dungeons and has a 50/50 chance for you to lose the stacks. I wouldnt recommend stacking anymore anyway.

Hi, thank you for your sharing. I think this build is awesome.
But I have a question: What is the difference between your build and Nemesis’s?
Nemesis’s build: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Toyhtj0HPU8https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Toyhtj0HPU8
I can see his build rely on the DS1 and the might more but yours rely on the dagger and focus.
What will be the difference in the playing style?
And in a proper rotation, which build will get a higher DPS?
Thank you again for sharing such a awesome build.

Dagger build will get higher dps in a semi decent group. It also means you dont have to worry about resource management on DS. You have more flexibily on the dagger build. But DS will do more damage in groups which dont share any buffs IF you can maintain DS. However if you want to use a DS build I wouldnt use the one on nemesis’s channel.

http://dulfy.net/2014/06/30/gw2-necromancer-pve-guide-by-spoj/
This guide has the DS build I would recommend and it explains a bit about each type of build.

Do You have a PVP guide you would recommended?

Nope sorry. I dont really do PvP.

Hi,

Thanks for the guide (and the version on Dulfy). I’ve been using these builds or something pretty close while I make my mind up about necro PvE. I think my future is casual open world play — kill some risen whostits, chop some trees, do some large and small events.

Your two builds seem about equally effective for me but I think dagger is more fun, so that’s what I’m going to concentrate on. So now it’s time to settle armour and runes…

For context, I have a set of exotic berzerker karma armour (came with Grenth runes). I’d like to standardize my characters on berserker trinkets for now, so they can share an ascended set. In my sort of play, I don’t expect to get buffs except occasionally, and I don’t expect to stay over 90% health. I spam peach tarts (magic find and some power). I guess I could use cheap maintenance oils or sharpening stones.

So I figure my choices, in order of cost, are:
- Use my zerk armour and put ranger runes on it for precision.
- Get assassin’s armour, scholar runes, energy sigils, and be very careful.
- Strength runes seem to be a universal panacea for disorganized play.

I’d appreciate a reality check on my thoughts. Are they sensible options at the price, and is there anything else I should think about?

Your thoughts are pretty much in line with what i would suggest. Assassins with scholar will help you deal with the low crit chance and will be optimum dps in most situations. Ranger runes will avoid the issue of staying above 90% hp (remember to take a mini pet for permanent #6 bonus). Plus they will give you more precision which will mean berserker armour is fine.

You could also go assassins with ranger runes if you never expect banner of discipline. Its probably a bit of an over the top investment in precision. But from a personal standpoint i hate missing crits so if you feel the same way theres no harm in going this route. Especially if its just for open world.

I wouldnt ever recommend strength runes for the dagger build. There simply isnt enough might generation for it to be worthwhile. So go with scholar or ranger runes.

One thing im hoping on is a siphoned power rework. If the devs indulge us and make it might on crit then strength runes could definately become the new best runeset for solo and casual groups even with the dagger build. Which would be very interesting. Although this is just my optimism speaking.

That doesnt seem likely. As it stands its about equal to dagger as far as i can tell. But then dagger rotation should pull it out on top. Theres also utility and safety situations you have consider. Generally you probably never want to sacrifice utility in fractals. Plague or golem are better for them. And then in arah you can use lich on a few bosses if you want. But that may mean no plague for skips. And thats risky if you arent comfortable with skips or you dont have a thief to carry you.

Ive tried well bombing with lich on a few fights in arah. It didnt really feel any more powerful than dagger rotation. The only times it seems clearly better is if you lack crit chance because of your group composition. I havent done the math either so i cant say anything conclusive. But ill look into after the feature patch. The coefficient changes will make it strong on higher power builds at the least.

Interesting. Something id like to point out. From my testing the dagger chain takes much closer to 2 seconds to repeat including aftercasts. And I dont know how much of an aftercast lich form has, but the repeatable damage should be more than 0.75 seconds.

If we assume 2 seconds and 1 second then the values are much closer. 1440 DPS against 1544 DPS. Thats just guessing Lich auto aftercast though. If we assume your numbers are correct then the gap is definately more than i expected. But im wondering how it compares in real fight situations with using the dagger offhand skills.

I havent really been playing recently. But i probably will look into this in a bit more detail after the feature patch. Dont have much motivation to do anything now. Especially when its going to change and make it easier to calculate dps after the patch. It definately seems safe to use in 80 dungeons for now though.

So i did some quick tests. It looks like the aftercast for deathly claws is about 0.1 seconds. Total repeatable time is about 1.18 seconds. Was only able to auto attack 17 times in the 20 second duration of Lich form. And for a quick test of coefficients i got a coefficient of 2.4 for the auto attack. This gives us about 2.04 coefficients per second. So post patch it seems lich form auto attack does a nice chunk more dps than dagger auto. Dagger auto has 1.4 coefficients per second for comparison.

I know for a fact that the dagger rotation does not contrinute that much sustained dps. So its safe to assume Lich is higher dps. However in very short fights the burst of reapers touch and tainted shackles should not be overlooked. So if using lich you should start the fight with locust swarm, reapers touch, tainted shackles and wells. This is because your starting burst is much higher than the sustained dps of Lich form.

EDIT: Just going by tool tip values the difference is slightly different. This is probably because Lich form doesnt use weapon strength. So im not sure exactly what value i should use for it. Even with the much smaller difference, Id recommend bursting and then lich auto attacking for short/medium duration fights.

spoj.9672:

So i did some quick tests. It looks like the aftercast for deathly claws is about 0.1 seconds. Total repeatable time is about 0.85 seconds. Was only able to auto attack 17 times in the 20 second duration of Lich form. And for a quick test of coefficients i got a coefficient of 2.4 for the auto attack. This gives us about 2.8 coefficients per second. So post patch it seems lich form auto attack is almost exactly twice the dps of dagger auto. Dagger auto has 1.4 coefficients per second for comparison.

I know for a fact that the dagger rotation does not double the sustained dps of dagger. So its safe to assume Lich is higher dps. However in very short fights the burst of reapers touch and tainted shackles should not be overlooked. So if using lich you should start the fight with locust swarm, reapers touch, tainted shackles and wells. This is because your starting burst is much higher than the sustained dps of Lich form.

EDIT: Just going by tool tip values the difference is much less. This is probably because Lich form doesnt use weapon strength. So im not sure exactly what value i should use for it. Even with the much smaller difference, Id recommend bursting and then lich auto attacking for short/medium duration fights.

I’m a little confused Spoj.

If it’s 17 attacks in 20 seconds, then we’re looking at ~1.176s per attack yes?
If the coefficient is 2.4 per attack, how is it raising to 2.8 per second if each attack takes longer than a second? Shouldn’t it be 2.4/1.176 and then a 2.04 per second coefficient?

Or am I just being dumb this morning?

Nope you are right. I did 17/20 instead of 20/17. Fail. No idea why i didnt notice that. I guess my brain has been rotting for a while.

This explains why my tooltip values showed a smaller difference. Lich is 2.04 coeff per second and dagger is 1.4 coeff per second. Still, the end conclusion is the same. Open with burst and then use Lich form for short fights.

spoj.9672:

Nope you are right. I did 17/20 instead of 20/17. Fail. No idea why i didnt notice that. I guess my brain has been rotting for a while.

This explains why my tooltip values showed a smaller difference. Lich is 2.04 coeff per second and dagger is 1.4 coeff per second. Still, the end conclusion is the same. Open with burst and then use Lich form for short fights.

You would recommend to use your build for open world casual PvE? I don’t do dungeons or fractures.

I prefer dagger in open world personally. I know lots of people prefer the DS build when not doing dungeons though. They are both fine for casual PvE so just play what you prefer.

spoj.9672:

I prefer dagger in open world personally. I know lots of people prefer the DS build when not doing dungeons though. They are both fine for casual PvE so just play what you prefer.

thanks for the extremely fast response.

Spoj, out of curiosity, and assuming a solo scenario (no team), what do you think about a full Rampager set? I’ve been running full Rampagers solo with +100% condi duration and it certainly feels like (after ramp-up) I’m doing more DPS than my berserker set, especially considering exponential condi-cleave via Epidemic. Have you given this sort of build any thought?

In my testing I run 6/6/0/0/2 still, but I pack Terror in the GM Curses slot so that you benefit from the condition damage scaling.

Never really noticed much of a difference. And condi damage is always a pain to calculate so i cant really say anything conclusive. It probably is slightly better for longer fights or sub optimal groups.

But then you might be seeing better dps simply because of the precision main stat. Assassins gear is slightly better than berserker for the dagger build in pretty much all situations. Except for when using spotter and max precision food. Seeing as rampager has higher crit chance and necros have a decent amount of passive condi damage. The ferocity and condi dmg stats probably amount to roughly the same dmg increase. So i wouldnt be surprised if rampager and assassins are close to equal in terms of dps. Rampager pulling ahead in long fights and assassins in short fights.

hey spoj I was wondering how much of a dps difference the lifeblast build is compared to dagger build.

Hi spoj! I will craft my ascended gear soon and was wondering if assassin gear in conjunction with berserker trinkets and weapons is still the optimal way to build your necromancer.

Thanks in advance.

Thats what my calculates suggest last time i checked. But if you want to use the DS build a fair amount then you should go full berserker instead. The difference is minor. Its more important if you plan to optimise for solos etc.

@Tadsoul
I dont really play anymore so its been a while since ive done dps calculations for comparison. DnT have some numbers from a while back on their forums. They might have something more recent aswell. Builds havent really changed so those old numbers should be pretty accurate. Although they wont account for axe buffs in the DS rotation.

I’m currently using Assassin’s ascended weapons, Berserker’s armor, and Berserker’s trinkets simply because crafting ascended armor is effin’ expensive and half of the Assassin’s trinkets don’t exist currently (and the other half require completing the CM and Arah collections). I ran the calculations assuming non-optimized group compositions and it still shows favorably over running pure Berserker’s (assuming non-DS build).

I tend to assume less than optimal conditions when calculating for myself. Because i generally only min max my necro for solos or casual groups. And i really hate missing crits. As i said before the difference is minor. So it doesnt matter too much. My prev group calcs probably show a different result due to slightly different assumptions. If you hate missing crits like me then consider using some assassins pieces. If you dont mind then full berserkers is all good. But either is fine especially as its only a necro.

Although i just remembered when i was theorycrafting for my lupi solo months back. The builds which showed better damage in calculations performed worse than high crit chance builds. So dont trust calculations completely. Especially when you lack consistant critical hits. I think the discussion about this can also be found on the DnT forums.

Some valuable information, thank you.

My Necromancers Max Power under the perfect conditions

You would have more with death magic and in death shroud + minions and Corrupter’s Fervor. Sorry ^^

Edit: and some POWER+toughness item stats

I use death magic in my condition build not my power build, and i prefer wells over minions.

He was just pointing out that you can get more power with death magic. Because your post sounded like you were just going for as high power as possible.

i understand what he was talking about, using Deadly Strength and Corrupter’s Fervor would be effective for more power and toughness. yes i do use shroud but not minions. Death Magic has many benefits for both, but Soul Reaper already covers my needs with shroud, and since i use wells over minions Death Magic is not for me. i do appreciate the feed back and don’t mind to see more. i was just posting a visual to others on here looking at stats on a power build.

Spoj The Second.7680:

-snip-

Just curious as a new Necro user here if this guide is still accurate for DPS in PVE??

Thanks

The dulfy version is up to date.