Guild Wars 2

Necromancer is getting a lot of nerfs and the consume conditions recharge increase and vulnerability is the biggest. Yet, all I’m reading is stuff like, “Well, I guess I understand the change” or “It makes sense if…”.

No, just no. The necromancer is getting gutted with these changes. Necromancer will die easier than ever before.

The nerfs are bad enough but our trait lines are becoming utter garbage in the process. A minor trait that gives you and minions protection when exiting death shroud? “But Zefrost, even if you don’t have minions you still get protection!” I don’t care, this is horrible design/synergy. How does this even synergize with traits in the same tier like armored shroud or soul comprehension?

Answer: it doesn’t.

Then we have the blood magic changes. What on earth kind of balance is this? No one in the existence of ever has ever suggested these types of changes. Life transfer now teleports downed allies to your location and heals them?

WHY?!

That is a very strange (kittened) change. How about a trait that makes life transfer draw conditions from your allies to yourself? Yep – that seems necromancery (and we can already do it underwater) This is also something that has been suggested before by myself and others.

Anyone trying to defend the necromancer now is in a serious denial problem. I am ashamed to even have a necromancer now, let alone that the majority of my time was spent (wasted) on it. The necromancer is forever garbage tier.

Axe skill #2 now converts a boon into a condition – that’s a good change. Good job.

The entire thought process of every balance change that is happening is horrible balance and I feel like Johnathan Sharp was the glue that held this type of “balance” from happening. I would rather have no balance than this. You don’t just make everything baseline, combine traits together whilst buffing traits and then give players new and better traits to choose from.

You have butchered the game. Please bring back Johnathan Sharp.

PS. I will make it my mission in yolo que to use the trait that stops allies from bleeding out whilst /sitting beside my ally while the opponent holds a point.

Cool trait. I will use it.

Right they really did give use the ultimate troll tool….

Let’s nerf em but give em the ultimate troll your own team tool that won’t kitten with pvp games at alllllll

What’s the problem with the protection on leaving Shroud (BtV) trait? I’m really pumped for it. It may not synergize with the other 2 death magic minors, but hotkitten if it doesn’t synergizes with F1. (I’m not defending the necro changes).

Salamander.2504:

What’s the problem with the protection on leaving Shroud (BtV) trait? I’m really pumped for it. It may not synergize with the other 2 death magic minors, but hotkitten if it doesn’t synergizes with F1. (I’m not defending the necro changes).

The problem is its a grand master minor and is 3 sec protection when exiting shroud, which happens like once every 15-30 seconds realistically in a fight (sometimes longer).

Meanwhile:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Companion%27s_Defense

2 seconds of protection when you dodge roll which can happen 2-3 times in a 10-12 second frame (Master minor).

Essentially, like MANY necromancer traits, it’s balanced around this idea that we flash shroud, so the uptime SOUNDS good, based on cooldowns, but it’s completely unrealistic.

Lol love the thread title.

I think the change was mostly random and if the devs just spend a minute thinking about it they will probably agree that it makes no sense balanced wise. Unfortunately however, since this is about necro, the last mentioned eventuality will probably not occur in a couple of months.

Edit: I mean of course the change to consume condition.

How is Beyond the Veil bad design? It may be in the wrong place, but 3 seconds of protection on shroud exit is ideal since most players wait to spike and cc a Necro once shroud ends. There really isn’t a point to spiking in the middle of shroud when you can wait 5 more seconds and line up all your skills to finish a Necro off. That means whenever that happens you get 33% damage reduction. I would personally reverse it with Soul Comprehension and give SC something GM worthy on top of the 20% more LF on deaths.

Blood Magic changes are “ok” for PvP, but will be very good for WvW and the new open world/world boss focused PvE. Definitely not bad.

Mark of Evasion? 33-50% free uptime for Regeneration at the very least. 2 extra stacks of bleeds every 8 seconds for condi necros. Not bad for a first level Minor.

Blood Bond? Gives 5 Signet of Vampirism stacks for you and allies on a 10-15sec CD (still testing) every time you get 4 bleeds on target. Same scaling as SoV active. Oh look MoE provides two alone every 8 seconds. In PvP with healing power and bloodthirst being baseline, this will be 670ish healing per hit. 800ish in PvE . The stacks can be triggered by allies and work through DS. That’s 3350-4000 more or less healing every 10-15 seconds if you use up all the Vamps. Even with no power investment, you’re going to deal 1250ish extra damage from them too. That’s a very good Adept trait.

Vampiric and Vampiric Master combined into one master minor? More space for other things.

Vampiric Presence? Stacks with Vampiric for double the siphoning and affects allies. Could be better scaling, but they said they will look at it like a lot of other Necro things after the patch is live for a while.

Last Rights? 150 healing power always, 300 at 50-75% and 450 extra below 50%. What’s not to like about that? It basically is 1/3 of the total healing power any build that concentrates on it currently has. Allies within 300 range can’t degen, making any of their non-bandage downed heal skills OP.

Vampiric Wells? Now triple triggers siphons on any well.

Transfusion? You can look at this as a downside to the skill if you play badly. But being able to damage in a potent AoE, gain 27% life force over 3 seconds , heal allies 2-5K over 3 seconds, revive 18% of downed allies downed bar over 3 seconds, teleport players to you within 3 seconds (really the first 1.3ish seconds), then have them benefit from Last Rites and your remaining revive healing, while a Necro in DS revives you is pretty OP.

Now there’s obviously some changes that are lackluster and counter productive because Anet got a bit cautious (MoB change, not upping siphons until after it goes live) or whimsical/clever (CC change etc.) for our own good. It’s also quite probable our changes don’t keep up with the healing and power creeps going on with other classes. Honestly I would rather be behind when this patch goes live so the other classes get nerfs and we get buffs, rather than the other way around.

The Blood Magic changes are definitely a fairly important step in the right direction. At the very least, Blood Magic’s Revivomancer tricks will be a huge boon to WvW and open world PvE (which is basically all of HoT) as I mentioned before. The best part is that we don’t even need to spec healing power for the revive heal mechanics.

The only real nerf is to consume conditions. Pretty much everything else is a huge improvement.

Sigmoid.7082:

The only real nerf is to consume conditions. Pretty much everything else is a huge improvement.

What about plague and lich? plague is practically unusable for condi buids.

Tim.6450:

Sigmoid.7082:

The only real nerf is to consume conditions. Pretty much everything else is a huge improvement.

What about plague and lich? plague is practically unusable for condi buids.

I’m off the opinion the changes to those two aren’t that bad. Especially not bad enough to ignore the new things we now have and they even. They still have synergy with a wide variety of builds.

Tim.6450:

Sigmoid.7082:

The only real nerf is to consume conditions. Pretty much everything else is a huge improvement.

What about plague and lich? plague is practically unusable for condi buids.

Lich got gutted pretty bad, I can’t defend that. Its duration was unimpressive before, and now, even with the trait, it’s still unimpressive. Plague’s nerf isn’t honestly as big a deal as people make it out to be. The pulsing 2 second self bleed means a permanent 2 stacks of bleeding on yourself, while at the same time, you get approximately double health and quadruple toughness. 2 permanent bleeds while you’re running around with 40,000 health is not going to kill you. And, of course, Plague now gets a huge 33% cooldown reduction trait, and plague sending can trigger while in plague in case you do get loaded up with bleeds.

Zefrost.3425:

Necromancer is getting a lot of nerfs and the consume conditions recharge increase and vulnerability is the biggest. Yet, all I’m reading is stuff like, “Well, I guess I understand the change” or “It makes sense if…”.

No, just no. The necromancer is getting gutted with these changes. Necromancer will die easier than ever before.

The nerfs are bad enough but our trait lines are becoming utter garbage in the process. A minor trait that gives you and minions protection when exiting death shroud? “But Zefrost, even if you don’t have minions you still get protection!” I don’t care, this is horrible design/synergy. How does this even synergize with traits in the same tier like armored shroud or soul comprehension?

Answer: it doesn’t.

Then we have the blood magic changes. What on earth kind of balance is this? No one in the existence of ever has ever suggested these types of changes. Life transfer now teleports downed allies to your location and heals them?

WHY?!

That is a very strange (kittened) change. How about a trait that makes life transfer draw conditions from your allies to yourself? Yep – that seems necromancery (and we can already do it underwater) This is also something that has been suggested before by myself and others.

Anyone trying to defend the necromancer now is in a serious denial problem. I am ashamed to even have a necromancer now, let alone that the majority of my time was spent (wasted) on it. The necromancer is forever garbage tier.

Axe skill #2 now converts a boon into a condition – that’s a good change. Good job.

The entire thought process of every balance change that is happening is horrible balance and I feel like Johnathan Sharp was the glue that held this type of “balance” from happening. I would rather have no balance than this. You don’t just make everything baseline, combine traits together whilst buffing traits and then give players new and better traits to choose from.

You have butchered the game. Please bring back Johnathan Sharp.

PS. I will make it my mission in yolo que to use the trait that stops allies from bleeding out whilst /sitting beside my ally while the opponent holds a point.

Cool trait. I will use it.

the consume conditions nerf was made because they made it a corruption. If they didn’t nerf it and still gave it the new categorization, it would have become over powered quickly.

protection when you leave death shroud is a lot more valuable than when you enter death shroud. I’d argue it synergizes with armored shroud because it covers the options that armored shroud doesn’t.

We got that, it’s called unholy martyr.

the teleport trait does seem like it leaves a lot of room for people to kitten with allies.

It’s weekend. They won’t read it.

striker.3704:

Zefrost.3425:

Necromancer is getting a lot of nerfs and the consume conditions recharge increase and vulnerability is the biggest. Yet, all I’m reading is stuff like, “Well, I guess I understand the change” or “It makes sense if…”.

No, just no. The necromancer is getting gutted with these changes. Necromancer will die easier than ever before.

The nerfs are bad enough but our trait lines are becoming utter garbage in the process. A minor trait that gives you and minions protection when exiting death shroud? “But Zefrost, even if you don’t have minions you still get protection!” I don’t care, this is horrible design/synergy. How does this even synergize with traits in the same tier like armored shroud or soul comprehension?

Answer: it doesn’t.

Then we have the blood magic changes. What on earth kind of balance is this? No one in the existence of ever has ever suggested these types of changes. Life transfer now teleports downed allies to your location and heals them?

WHY?!

That is a very strange (kittened) change. How about a trait that makes life transfer draw conditions from your allies to yourself? Yep – that seems necromancery (and we can already do it underwater) This is also something that has been suggested before by myself and others.

Anyone trying to defend the necromancer now is in a serious denial problem. I am ashamed to even have a necromancer now, let alone that the majority of my time was spent (wasted) on it. The necromancer is forever garbage tier.

Axe skill #2 now converts a boon into a condition – that’s a good change. Good job.

The entire thought process of every balance change that is happening is horrible balance and I feel like Johnathan Sharp was the glue that held this type of “balance” from happening. I would rather have no balance than this. You don’t just make everything baseline, combine traits together whilst buffing traits and then give players new and better traits to choose from.

You have butchered the game. Please bring back Johnathan Sharp.

PS. I will make it my mission in yolo que to use the trait that stops allies from bleeding out whilst /sitting beside my ally while the opponent holds a point.

Cool trait. I will use it.

the consume conditions nerf was made because they made it a corruption. If they didn’t nerf it and still gave it the new categorization, it would have become over powered quickly.

protection when you leave death shroud is a lot more valuable than when you enter death shroud. I’d argue it synergizes with armored shroud because it covers the options that armored shroud doesn’t.

We got that, it’s called unholy martyr.

the teleport trait does seem like it leaves a lot of room for people to kitten with allies.

Yet they put Master of Corruption to compete the choice between Terror and path of corruption. Way to kill Condition Necro more. Now unless some new synergy comes out, Condition Necro would be stuck with a 30 CD heal (which is already the most easily interruptable heal in the current meta) and gg.

Captain Unusual.9163:

Lich got gutted pretty bad, I can’t defend that. Its duration was unimpressive before, and now, even with the trait, it’s still unimpressive.

If you take the spectral trait it last 22.5s and has a cooldown of 144s and grants 20% LF when it ends.

Toxsa.2701:

Yet they put Master of Corruption to compete the choice between Terror and path of corruption. Way to kill Condition Necro more. Now unless some new synergy comes out, Condition Necro would be stuck with a 30 CD heal (which is already the most easily interruptable heal in the current meta) and gg.

Or, you know, you can take blood magic for blood bond and gain like 3k hp 15s or so and if you traited it you corrupt boons and gain might.

Captain Unusual.9163:

Lich got gutted pretty bad, I can’t defend that. Its duration was unimpressive before, and now, even with the trait, it’s still unimpressive. Plague’s nerf isn’t honestly as big a deal as people make it out to be. The pulsing 2 second self bleed means a permanent 2 stacks of bleeding on yourself, while at the same time, you get approximately double health and quadruple toughness. 2 permanent bleeds while you’re running around with 40,000 health is not going to kill you. And, of course, Plague now gets a huge 33% cooldown reduction trait, and plague sending can trigger while in plague in case you do get loaded up with bleeds.

Actually it seems that without any condition duration the bleed from plague in exotic rabid would do around 9K damage to you with no might. So that is around 20~25% of your health lost for using plague and don’t forget that plague will stack a second condition if traited and if it damages as hard as the bleeds (not that dificult) then you are nuking yourself for 40%~50% health. Also plague sending will maybe remove 2 stacks from the 20 so that’s only 10% of the damage.

Now that I think about it Lich would have made a decent elite signet.

Signet of the Lich 90 sec CD
-Passive: Summon a jagged horror every 10 sec
-Active: #5 of normal Lich

Sigmoid.7082:

Captain Unusual.9163:

Lich got gutted pretty bad, I can’t defend that. Its duration was unimpressive before, and now, even with the trait, it’s still unimpressive.

If you take the spectral trait it last 22.5s and has a cooldown of 144s and grants 20% LF when it ends.

Toxsa.2701:

Yet they put Master of Corruption to compete the choice between Terror and path of corruption. Way to kill Condition Necro more. Now unless some new synergy comes out, Condition Necro would be stuck with a 30 CD heal (which is already the most easily interruptable heal in the current meta) and gg.

Or, you know, you can take blood magic for blood bond and gain like 3k hp 15s or so and if you traited it you corrupt boons and gain might.

You seem to think something is positive without realizing that your suggestion of just taking the spectral trait isn’t very realistic. So someone takes it? They’d miss out of Vital Persistence which has been pretty much a staple and mandatory for power builds, no to mention it now reduces cooldowns in shroud. I don’t think you’re going to be seeing many super-charged liches. And even if you do, the necro will be weaker for it.

I’m just saying, you seem a bit overly optimistic and I’m not sure (yet) thats it’s entirely warranted…

ronpierce.2760:

Sigmoid.7082:

Captain Unusual.9163:

Lich got gutted pretty bad, I can’t defend that. Its duration was unimpressive before, and now, even with the trait, it’s still unimpressive.

If you take the spectral trait it last 22.5s and has a cooldown of 144s and grants 20% LF when it ends.

Toxsa.2701:

Yet they put Master of Corruption to compete the choice between Terror and path of corruption. Way to kill Condition Necro more. Now unless some new synergy comes out, Condition Necro would be stuck with a 30 CD heal (which is already the most easily interruptable heal in the current meta) and gg.

Or, you know, you can take blood magic for blood bond and gain like 3k hp 15s or so and if you traited it you corrupt boons and gain might.

You seem to think something is positive without realizing that your suggestion of just taking the spectral trait isn’t very realistic. So someone takes it? They’d miss out of Vital Persistence which has been pretty much a staple and mandatory for power builds, no to mention it now reduces cooldowns in shroud. I don’t think you’re going to be seeing many super-charged liches. And even if you do, the necro will be weaker for it.

I’m just saying, you seem a bit overly optimistic and I’m not sure (yet) thats it’s entirely warranted…

Lich is pretty broken now, not that I used it a lot. Only on my full pvp power DPS builds. I would never personally take Spectral mastery over Vital Persistence for the sole reason of an elite. Especially since Vital Persistence now has the 15% reduced recharge for shroud skills in it.

Sigmoid is right about Blood Bond though. If you don’t spec Reaper, you should be able to trigger the 5 active SoV stacks by just using Dark Path then dodge rolling to proc MoE. So even power builds could easily (kind of) use it with no other bleed procs. Then spec Signets of Suffering and you’re pretty much using Dark Path for the same reason as Path of Corruption, just an extra step (dodge roll to trigger MoE when it’s not on ICD, which now has base 240 radius and 300 radius blast).

ronpierce.2760:

Sigmoid.7082:

Captain Unusual.9163:

Lich got gutted pretty bad, I can’t defend that. Its duration was unimpressive before, and now, even with the trait, it’s still unimpressive.

If you take the spectral trait it last 22.5s and has a cooldown of 144s and grants 20% LF when it ends.

Toxsa.2701:

Yet they put Master of Corruption to compete the choice between Terror and path of corruption. Way to kill Condition Necro more. Now unless some new synergy comes out, Condition Necro would be stuck with a 30 CD heal (which is already the most easily interruptable heal in the current meta) and gg.

Or, you know, you can take blood magic for blood bond and gain like 3k hp 15s or so and if you traited it you corrupt boons and gain might.

You seem to think something is positive without realizing that your suggestion of just taking the spectral trait isn’t very realistic. So someone takes it? They’d miss out of Vital Persistence which has been pretty much a staple and mandatory for power builds, no to mention it now reduces cooldowns in shroud. I don’t think you’re going to be seeing many super-charged liches. And even if you do, the necro will be weaker for it.

I’m just saying, you seem a bit overly optimistic and I’m not sure (yet) thats it’s entirely warranted…

I was just stating a fact that you could take the trait , positive or negative I was nearly pointing it out. There is hardly any optimism I just am more neutral than anything but I suppose it appears to be optimism when compared to the overall pessimistic and negative tone this board has recently.

More excited to see the final cooldown ans numbets of the skills for Tuesday so I can see how effective certain things will be.

Sigmoid.7082:

ronpierce.2760:

Sigmoid.7082:

Captain Unusual.9163:

Lich got gutted pretty bad, I can’t defend that. Its duration was unimpressive before, and now, even with the trait, it’s still unimpressive.

If you take the spectral trait it last 22.5s and has a cooldown of 144s and grants 20% LF when it ends.

Toxsa.2701:

Yet they put Master of Corruption to compete the choice between Terror and path of corruption. Way to kill Condition Necro more. Now unless some new synergy comes out, Condition Necro would be stuck with a 30 CD heal (which is already the most easily interruptable heal in the current meta) and gg.

Or, you know, you can take blood magic for blood bond and gain like 3k hp 15s or so and if you traited it you corrupt boons and gain might.

You seem to think something is positive without realizing that your suggestion of just taking the spectral trait isn’t very realistic. So someone takes it? They’d miss out of Vital Persistence which has been pretty much a staple and mandatory for power builds, no to mention it now reduces cooldowns in shroud. I don’t think you’re going to be seeing many super-charged liches. And even if you do, the necro will be weaker for it.

I’m just saying, you seem a bit overly optimistic and I’m not sure (yet) thats it’s entirely warranted…

I was just stating a fact that you could take the trait , positive or negative I was nearly pointing it out. There is hardly any optimism I just am more neutral than anything but I suppose it appears to be optimism when compared to the overall pessimistic and negative tone this board has recently.

More excited to see the final cooldown ans numbets of the skills for Tuesday so I can see how effective certain things will be.

For all we know they have reworked Plague, CC and Lich due to the outcry. Anet has already proven themselves to be very liberal with these patch changes and listening to feedback, since they now they’re breaking the game balance with all these class changes at once.

Or they will leave them as is and use live servers as a lab test, which seems to be their plan for all classes by this point.

Balekai.6083:

Sigmoid.7082:

ronpierce.2760:

Sigmoid.7082:

Captain Unusual.9163:

Lich got gutted pretty bad, I can’t defend that. Its duration was unimpressive before, and now, even with the trait, it’s still unimpressive.

If you take the spectral trait it last 22.5s and has a cooldown of 144s and grants 20% LF when it ends.

Toxsa.2701:

Yet they put Master of Corruption to compete the choice between Terror and path of corruption. Way to kill Condition Necro more. Now unless some new synergy comes out, Condition Necro would be stuck with a 30 CD heal (which is already the most easily interruptable heal in the current meta) and gg.

Or, you know, you can take blood magic for blood bond and gain like 3k hp 15s or so and if you traited it you corrupt boons and gain might.

You seem to think something is positive without realizing that your suggestion of just taking the spectral trait isn’t very realistic. So someone takes it? They’d miss out of Vital Persistence which has been pretty much a staple and mandatory for power builds, no to mention it now reduces cooldowns in shroud. I don’t think you’re going to be seeing many super-charged liches. And even if you do, the necro will be weaker for it.

I’m just saying, you seem a bit overly optimistic and I’m not sure (yet) thats it’s entirely warranted…

I was just stating a fact that you could take the trait , positive or negative I was nearly pointing it out. There is hardly any optimism I just am more neutral than anything but I suppose it appears to be optimism when compared to the overall pessimistic and negative tone this board has recently.

More excited to see the final cooldown ans numbets of the skills for Tuesday so I can see how effective certain things will be.

For all we know they have reworked Plague, CC and Lich due to the outcry. Anet has already proven themselves to be very liberal with these patch changes and listening to feedback, since they now they’re breaking the game balance with all these class changes at once.

Or they will leave them as is and use live servers as a lab test, which seems to be their plan for all classes by this point.

Honestly think they will look at the abilities cooldowns. Particularly lich.