Guild Wars 2

spoj.9672:

Kitedyou.1720:

The thing I do have a problem is, is with people like Spoj that think everything you say is gospel and there can be no other answer.

Do you actually even read my posts? I said i only support nemesis because he has similar opinions to me. I dont take everything he says as gospel. Infact i disagree with alot of the viability and ways he traits some of his builds. I think my beserker build is better than his, but thats just my opinion. But the fact is someone who knows about the class (like nemesis) is going to have a more valid outlook on what the class is capable of. Which is why i often agree with him, not because its him but because i actually see it the same way…

Okay, just trying to make sure you weren’t baaaaah baaahing along just because he made some videos.

Relax a bit Spoj, that vein can only burst once.

Like I said before, I think it is good that he takes the time out of what must be a very busy schedule to make “tutorials” for the people that either don’t have the time or are too lazy to figure it out.

I just didn’t like how you tried to discount someone else’s post because they suggested using SoS. Your opinion, at the time, seemed to be predicated upon whatever Nemesis said.

Now, with all that being said, this pretentious thread has gotten far more attention than it deserves…

@Nemesis –

I tend to run CoF p1 daily on my necro, I’d be happy to join you for a bunch of runs. I don’t currently have the full glass cannon set-up, but I can get everything for the exotic version of your glass cannon build quickly. Or did you want only folks who have the ascended set-up?

Because I generally run a more tanky powermancer (something like http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/necromancer/?5.0|8.1g.h2.d.1g.h1|6.1g.h15|1n.a7.1g.a7.1n.a7.1g.a7.1n.a7.1g.a7|411.0.1i.67.1i.67.1j.67.1g.67.1i.67|u69c.p47.0.0.f6|0.0|3r.4d.4a.3u.4g|e), I imagine it may take a run or two to get into the groove of a full glass cannon. I’m not an expert player or anything, but I’d be happy to give it my best. I think it’d be a lot of fun.

One question about the video: Where did you get the music? What’s the song called? You may want to credit it with the video.

Why the hate on signet of spite? It is 180 free power? Is there some logical reason you hate that utiity? I am just curious, as I don’t freqently use my full zerker set, as I dislike the axe toolkit in WvW.

I get that it is certainly less flashy than using the wall and pulling a mob through it, but from the perspective of min-maxing damage, and making the fastest possible COF run, the biggest possible hits video, it seems like a no brainer.

Wall + pull gives you position, and chill, 10 vulnerability…. and….. ? It triggers 30 seconds of useless cooldowns… Its PVE anyhow, which means there are plenty of other options for positioning that don’t require you to waste a utility…. like putting the wall behind the mob and fearing it, in which case if they are melee they will go through it twice for 20 stacks of vuln…

I think these videos are fine in length, but I am long-winded and dont mind a long read/watch. Just don’t undertand the hate for signet of spite. I have run it on a single target boss in rampagers gear with sceptor, just for some bonus damage, because against some fractal single target bosses, nothing else is going to match what it can give in raw damage.

Even if i do 1/3 damage i can run all Dungeons in almost the same time. Most foes die so fast you cant even do any combo. Only the bosses live long enough. So whats the point of doing more damage? I don’t get it xD
And survivability is almost not needed in this game in pve. Just get a Guard in your team in position yourself well.. means don’t run into red circles. Job done
But still nice to see a necro can do as half of the damage of a warrior. =)

Nemesis.8593:

Emmm… the thread is getting a bit of course. I shouldn’t have said anything off topic myself, but the whole “worship” idea doesn’t bode well with me.

I wanted to inspire a bit new necromancers out there, so that they don’t fall to peer pressure when encountering other players that run the most popular dungeon at this moment: CoF.
Speaking of inspiring and CoF… i think i need 2 more berserker necromancers to set up a test run…

I would love to go, but sadly I’m NA and I can’t join groups from EU servers.

Meanwhile on a 100b warrior build rolls eyes

Kitedyou.1720:

LameFox.6349:

Nice to see you’ve learned video editing though lol. The ratio of intro to content in this video is quite astounding.

LOL! This is for stroking kitten.

Do this solo…without the constant fury, 25 stacks of might, 25 stacks of whatever your sigil is and the warbanners and the constant regen and the aegis. The 25 stacks of vulnerability you can keep because that is pretty easy for a Necro, alone, to do.

Only then should it deserve the pretentious “highest hit” title.

I do, however, want to say “thank you” for helping people understand the mechanics of the class and taking the time to do that.

Well put.

Rennoko.5731:

Why the hate on signet of spite? It is 180 free power? Is there some logical reason you hate that utiity? I am just curious, as I don’t freqently use my full zerker set, as I dislike the axe toolkit in WvW.

Its like saying signet warriors are good. Passive 180 power is nothing. You get twice that from taking BiP (Which also does damage and applies some bleeds). The only time it should ever be considered is if you 100% know that you will get full might stacks from another source. But even then you could take something better which boosts your damage/support/utility. I always run around with both damaging wells because they scale very nicely with beserker builds. This leaves me with one situational slot. Signet of Spite is not good enough to make me waste that slot on it.

spoj.9672:

Rennoko.5731:

Why the hate on signet of spite? It is 180 free power? Is there some logical reason you hate that utiity? I am just curious, as I don’t freqently use my full zerker set, as I dislike the axe toolkit in WvW.

Its like saying signet warriors are good. Passive 180 power is nothing. You get twice that from taking BiP (Which also does damage and applies some bleeds). The only time it should ever be considered is if you 100% know that you will get full might stacks from another source. But even then you could take something better which boosts your damage/support/utility. I always run around with both damaging wells because they scale very nicely with beserker builds. This leaves me with one situational slot. Signet of Spite is not good enough to make me waste that slot on it.

He is in a group that can genearate 25 might…. ?

What do you mean its nothing? Its the equivalent of 18 stacks…. so stacks are nothing also? Not to mention that it stacks on top of everything else… including stacks you may already have, whatever might you already have….an unlike blood is power, it is up 100% of the time.

If it was 90 power I might agree, but 180 is twice as significant as it used to be. Situational utilities can be better situationally, but this is not a bad signet…. not in PVE, where you don’t really need any fancy utilities, like he is using in the video.

Signet warrior is also a silly comparison…. that is sinking 3 utilities and your elite into signets… not using one signet… there are plenty builds for warriors that use 1-2 signets effectively, just like thief builds that can run 1 signet effectively.

Am I wrong here? I guess I can accept that if you make a decent argument, but that hasn’t happened yet. I don’t claim to know power builds, but if I had a signet that gave 180 condition damage, I would use it with epidemic and BIP no questions asked… in PVE

Nemesis said he didn’t take Signet because frankly, it isn’t that good in an actual build, and while the point of this is to merely do a high hit, he realizes many people would completely skip the introduction and just go “omg, signet of spite 2gud!” if he used it.

Personally I like the long duration of your tutorial videos. With so many choices going in to whatever is chosen for a build, making something so comprehensive is bound to take forever. I know that if I were to explain all of the synergy that results from my builds, it would take an hour, too. Maybe it is just a holdover from college, but I can listen to someone with a foreign accent explain things for endless amounts of time. In fact, whenever I read your posts I automatically sub-vocalize it with your voice.

I prefer that to things like “Look at the highest max hit I can get!” stuff. This is a holdover from when I used to argue about balance in Runescape many years ago, and the big thing I always had to get past people was that the maximum hit that someone can do in some circumstance isn’t representative of the overall performance. This still shows up in these forums a lot, when people point at a channeled skill on a warrior or thief and say “Look at how big these numbers are! They obviously aren’t fair to #insert class here# that can’t hit that high”. And yet, so many don’t pay attention to the other things that contribute to that hit, such as if support classes gave them maximum might or the vulnerability stacks or if that enemy takes more damage or if that hit just happens to be a ton of crits.

Though that video will help to appeal to those who discriminate against necros because they don’t appear to hit big, beefy crits. Of course, they ignore that in peak conditions the necro does up to 100k damage every 12 seconds with epidemic, or that a coated bullets engineer can do 27k damage per auto attack, or that the thief’s sword auto attack chain hits for 11k on 3 different enemies. I’m sure the ranger has something like that, too, but since I haven’t played one I wouldn’t know.

Good luck on the CoF run. As much as I’d love to team up with you, unfortunately neither of the equipment sets I have on my necro are zerker. Also I’ve never run Cof1 in my life.

Rennoko 18 stacks of might does not = 180 power. 1 stack of might is 35 power and 35 condition damage at lvl 80. 10 stacks of might is 350 power. 25 stacks of might = 875 power and condition damage. 180 power is pathetic. As others have said its not worth taking when you can get more useful utilities and might from your teammates. BiP > SoS. But BiP should only be used when you dont need any utility. Even in groups that generate max might stacks for the team its worth having your own might, as they often cant keep you on permanent 25 stacks.

Also a signet with 180 condition damage would be worse than BiP but obviously you could take both seeing as condition builds dont have that many strong utility choices in pve.

Take in consideration that BiP has around average uptime of ~40-50% depending on your boon duration. Assuming 50%, it translates to average gain of 175 power over time + negligible bleed damage in power builds. Signet is constant 180 power.

The reason for which i dislike the signet and i would never use it in my glass cannon build. Not only does it have condition damage which goes against the principle of a glass cannon, but it takes one slot that i need for something better.

The Well of Suffering = vulnerability and AoE power type damage… no questions there.

Spectral Wall = more vulnerability + protection which synergizes well with the minor trait in Soul Reaping which gives me some more protection. When you are squishy glass cannon and you don’t have leaps or charges or stealth, protection is for you…

Spectral Grasp = it synergizes well with the Spectral Wall, but yes that is debatable… you don’t need that much some would claim… has a high CD, why would you use it.
Well… it is required in my playstyle, and the playstyle i promote alongside the build that i have created…. the playstyle that fits the build.

We all know that necromancers don’t have a cleave attack, we also know that it does great damage with dagger 1… and good damage at range from the rotation axe 2 + DS 1 × 4 + axe 2 into dagger 2 + DS 1 × 4 + dagger 2…
To me that means that the glass cannon necromancer can do damage at all times either at melee, which is preferable, but also at range…

But wait… there’s more… since we don’t have a cleave, there is absolutely no reason for us to go near 4-5 mobs to attack one of it, so how about we bring it to us instead.
This concept combined with the fact that you can take to range any time you don’t feel safe, gives the power necromancer the ability to have almost 100% damage uptime… unlike other classes…

Ok… will updated the initial post with the people that have offered to come and are from Eu.

We will be giving the first attempt, if you all agree, tomorrow: Sunday the 9th of June…
Anywhere between 10PM CET up to 5PM CET…

Those that can make it tomorrow, send me a confirmation in game as an email.

Nemesis.8593:

The reason for which i dislike the signet and i would never use it in my glass cannon build. Not only does it have condition damage which goes against the principle of a glass cannon, but it takes one slot that i need for something better.

The Well of Suffering = vulnerability and AoE power type damage… no questions there.

Spectral Wall = more vulnerability + protection which synergizes well with the minor trait in Soul Reaping which gives me some more protection. When you are squishy glass cannon and you don’t have leaps or charges or stealth, protection is for you…

Spectral Grasp = it synergizes well with the Spectral Wall, but yes that is debatable… you don’t need that much some would claim… has a high CD, why would you use it.
Well… it is required in my playstyle, and the playstyle i promote alongside the build that i have created…. the playstyle that fits the build.

We all know that necromancers don’t have a cleave attack, we also know that it does great damage with dagger 1… and good damage at range from the rotation axe 2 + DS 1 × 4 + axe 2 into dagger 2 + DS 1 × 4 + dagger 2…
To me that means that the glass cannon necromancer can do damage at all times either at melee, which is preferable, but also at range…

But wait… there’s more… since we don’t have a cleave, there is absolutely no reason for us to go near 4-5 mobs to attack one of it, so how about we bring it to us instead.
This concept combined with the fact that you can take to range any time you don’t feel safe, gives the power necromancer the ability to have almost 100% damage uptime… unlike other classes…

If you’re pulling one mob out of a balled up group, away from your team’s AoE — I won’t blame them for lynching you.

I’ll look forward to the video of four Liches spamming #1 in Time Warp (hopefully with Staff equipped).

Also, for your COF run, your Grasp+Wall combo will only work on one boss. So don’t forget to change utilities after the first boss fight.

Nemesis.8593:

The reason for which i dislike the signet and i would never use it in my glass cannon build. Not only does it have condition damage which goes against the principle of a glass cannon, but it takes one slot that i need for something better.

The Well of Suffering = vulnerability and AoE power type damage… no questions there.

Spectral Wall = more vulnerability + protection which synergizes well with the minor trait in Soul Reaping which gives me some more protection. When you are squishy glass cannon and you don’t have leaps or charges or stealth, protection is for you…

Spectral Grasp = it synergizes well with the Spectral Wall, but yes that is debatable… you don’t need that much some would claim… has a high CD, why would you use it.
Well… it is required in my playstyle, and the playstyle i promote alongside the build that i have created…. the playstyle that fits the build.

We all know that necromancers don’t have a cleave attack, we also know that it does great damage with dagger 1… and good damage at range from the rotation axe 2 + DS 1 × 4 + axe 2 into dagger 2 + DS 1 × 4 + dagger 2…
To me that means that the glass cannon necromancer can do damage at all times either at melee, which is preferable, but also at range…

But wait… there’s more… since we don’t have a cleave, there is absolutely no reason for us to go near 4-5 mobs to attack one of it, so how about we bring it to us instead.
This concept combined with the fact that you can take to range any time you don’t feel safe, gives the power necromancer the ability to have almost 100% damage uptime… unlike other classes…

It’s true for aoe purpose and I’ll definitely bring some wells in many situations.

However, if you want to make some impressive cof p1 time from your necro team, you may want to reconsider that. Since that dungeon is ALL single target kill except the first group. And survivability is next to useless in cof p1.

But I’ll leave the calculation to you, whether it’s more single target damage from the burst of well of corruption, or the sustained power from signet. It’s ~5 might stacks but unlike BiP, it’s 24/7.

Nice vid! Very good to see someone getting some spicy thoughts back in necros. ;-P

Oh baby, I’d worship you one more time, before Just Beva or whatever that annoyin guy is called ;-P

While were having pointless slightly off topic talky. OMFG why didn’t you use Sig of Locust? The vid would have been 4mins if ya moved faster ;-P

Afya.5842:

Nemesis.8593:

The reason for which i dislike the signet and i would never use it in my glass cannon build. Not only does it have condition damage which goes against the principle of a glass cannon, but it takes one slot that i need for something better.

The Well of Suffering = vulnerability and AoE power type damage… no questions there.

Spectral Wall = more vulnerability + protection which synergizes well with the minor trait in Soul Reaping which gives me some more protection. When you are squishy glass cannon and you don’t have leaps or charges or stealth, protection is for you…

Spectral Grasp = it synergizes well with the Spectral Wall, but yes that is debatable… you don’t need that much some would claim… has a high CD, why would you use it.
Well… it is required in my playstyle, and the playstyle i promote alongside the build that i have created…. the playstyle that fits the build.

We all know that necromancers don’t have a cleave attack, we also know that it does great damage with dagger 1… and good damage at range from the rotation axe 2 + DS 1 × 4 + axe 2 into dagger 2 + DS 1 × 4 + dagger 2…
To me that means that the glass cannon necromancer can do damage at all times either at melee, which is preferable, but also at range…

But wait… there’s more… since we don’t have a cleave, there is absolutely no reason for us to go near 4-5 mobs to attack one of it, so how about we bring it to us instead.
This concept combined with the fact that you can take to range any time you don’t feel safe, gives the power necromancer the ability to have almost 100% damage uptime… unlike other classes…

It’s true for aoe purpose and I’ll definitely bring some wells in many situations.

However, if you want to make some impressive cof p1 time from your necro team, you may want to reconsider that. Since that dungeon is ALL single target kill except the first group. And survivability is next to useless in cof p1.

But I’ll leave the calculation to you, whether it’s more single target damage from the burst of well of corruption, or the sustained power from signet. It’s ~5 might stacks but unlike BiP, it’s 24/7.

We should be able to kill everything in the time BiP lasts. Except maybe final boss.

spoj.9672:

Rennoko 18 stacks of might does not = 180 power. 1 stack of might is 35 power and 35 condition damage at lvl 80. 10 stacks of might is 350 power. 25 stacks of might = 875 power and condition damage. 180 power is pathetic. As others have said its not worth taking when you can get more useful utilities and might from your teammates. BiP > SoS. But BiP should only be used when you dont need any utility. Even in groups that generate max might stacks for the team its worth having your own might, as they often cant keep you on permanent 25 stacks.

Also a signet with 180 condition damage would be worse than BiP but obviously you could take both seeing as condition builds dont have that many strong utility choices in pve.

18 stacks of bloodlust was my implication (not might). If you make the claim 180 power is nothing, then the claim would also be, why waste your time running bloodlust stacks, since 18 is almost full stacks.

Well of suffering, yes, I agree would have a slot on any zerker bar. Beyond that, both wall and grasp are situational at best, and completely useless at worst. Take for instance the last boss in COF. Both of those utilities are completely useless in that scenario, or nearly so.

I would argue blood is power is way better in a condition build, than a power build. In my opinion, there are very few “good” utilities for a power necro in PVE at all. WOC/WOD/WOP are all situational at best, or a little damage boost with WOC if there are no conditions to flip. In fact I would take the power signet as the 2nd of three slots in a power build every time in PVE.

I just don’t understand where you come from with useful utilties, and the hate on spite. The active on spite is crap, and you should never use it in PVE or PVP, but the passive isn’t, and it trumps any utilities except for BIP and WOS.

What useful utilities are you talking about that I should rather have? Wall and pull are not useful, not in the extremely low level of difficulty of PVE as it stands in this game right now. This isn’t WoW where split pulling means the difference between wipe and success. The long vulnerability from wall is good assuming you can get the mobs through it, but you can only guarantee one through it with pull every cooldown timer, and that one mob is going to be dead in 10 seconds…. so why waste the time?

Rennoko.5731:

spoj.9672:

Rennoko 18 stacks of might does not = 180 power. 1 stack of might is 35 power and 35 condition damage at lvl 80. 10 stacks of might is 350 power. 25 stacks of might = 875 power and condition damage. 180 power is pathetic. As others have said its not worth taking when you can get more useful utilities and might from your teammates. BiP > SoS. But BiP should only be used when you dont need any utility. Even in groups that generate max might stacks for the team its worth having your own might, as they often cant keep you on permanent 25 stacks.

Also a signet with 180 condition damage would be worse than BiP but obviously you could take both seeing as condition builds dont have that many strong utility choices in pve.

18 stacks of bloodlust was my implication (not might). If you make the claim 180 power is nothing, then the claim would also be, why waste your time running bloodlust stacks, since 18 is almost full stacks.

Well of suffering, yes, I agree would have a slot on any zerker bar. Beyond that, both wall and grasp are situational at best, and completely useless at worst. Take for instance the last boss in COF. Both of those utilities are completely useless in that scenario, or nearly so.

I would argue blood is power is way better in a condition build, than a power build. In my opinion, there are very few “good” utilities for a power necro in PVE at all. WOC/WOD/WOP are all situational at best, or a little damage boost with WOC if there are no conditions to flip. In fact I would take the power signet as the 2nd of three slots in a power build every time in PVE.

I just don’t understand where you come from with useful utilties, and the hate on spite. The active on spite is crap, and you should never use it in PVE or PVP, but the passive isn’t, and it trumps any utilities except for BIP and WOS.

What useful utilities are you talking about that I should rather have? Wall and pull are not useful, not in the extremely low level of difficulty of PVE as it stands in this game right now. This isn’t WoW where split pulling means the difference between wipe and success. The long vulnerability from wall is good assuming you can get the mobs through it, but you can only guarantee one through it with pull every cooldown timer, and that one mob is going to be dead in 10 seconds…. so why waste the time?

I wont be running either wall or grasp in the cof run. But one thing i can say is ive never though hmm i dont need this 3rd slot so ill take the signet. Whenever i dont need the 3rd slot i take BiP. Other slots are Well of suffering and well of corruption (99% of the time). WoC is actually very good damage, not as strong as WoS but still a hard hitter with a beserker build. Wall is very strong when you LoS the mobs through it (common speed clear tactic). Spectral walk is good for a stunbreak and skipping.

But the thing is people should be changing their utilities constantly to fit the next situation. Necro’s arent max damage dealers so they should focus on supporting the team while doing the max damage they can do (plague signet or WoP for condition control or well of darkness for hard hitting trash and so on). The only time i use grasp is for controlled pulls but generally the guard or mesmer can do it better so its not something i personally use often.

I also dont run bloodlust due to having to gain stacks everytime i enter a dungeon and some dungeons its just not efficient. When i have more money and less things to go for I may get a second weapon with bloodlust, stack up, then swap it out. But generally i tend to avoid stacking sigils.

I will point out i will probably use the signet + BiP when doing the gate, but thats it. Because WoC provides some nice burst damage + signet passive doesnt affect Lich form.

I don’t disagree with anything you have said, except that by the numbers… 180 power is going to deal more damage over anything you have suggested in that third slot…

And if you are running an all necro COF run, why would you not want more damage? Its COF, it isn’t hard, you dont NEED the blind from WOD, you don’t need spectral walk, you don’t need wall because there is nothing to LOS on that path.

For bursting purposes, and with all necros, I could see WOC/WOS/BIP being your setup choice… but if you had a decent stack of might in a more balanced group for that path, I would rather the signet over anything else in the third slot.

But I agree that you should change utilities in a normal dungeon often for the circumstances, but COF1 isn’t a normal dungeon, it is build around maximizing damage, and minimizing brain-power.

Rennoko.5731:

I don’t disagree with anything you have said, except that by the numbers… 180 power is going to deal more damage over anything you have suggested in that third slot…

And if you are running an all necro COF run, why would you not want more damage? Its COF, it isn’t hard, you dont NEED the blind from WOD, you don’t need spectral walk, you don’t need wall because there is nothing to LOS on that path.

For bursting purposes, and with all necros, I could see WOC/WOS/BIP being your setup choice… but if you had a decent stack of might in a more balanced group for that path, I would rather the signet over anything else in the third slot.

But I agree that you should change utilities in a normal dungeon often for the circumstances, but COF1 isn’t a normal dungeon, it is build around maximizing damage, and minimizing brain-power.

I will be running BiP, WoS, WoC. As we wont be might sharing. But yeah signet of spite is very situational and so I just never use it any more. If however signet of spite became a stunbreak on active or just gave a much better power build active. I would definately run it as my 3rd slot when i dont need any utility.

Yeah, a stunbreak and retaliation would be nice for an active… the active is really bad…