Guild Wars 2

So if I remember correctly, most people were kittened off by the changes to the curses trait line announced in the specializations livestream; they were disappointing/ ruined the whole tree. However I think that with some minor changes this has alot of potential, a major (at least for me) change was that Haemophilia is now merged with barbed precision, thus making room for Enfeebling Blood, which is great for obvious reasons.
Now, here is how the rest could be fixed:
-Terror takes its place back in master traits or is made to be the 3rd Minor trait, this is since Terror is a must have trait for any Necro condi build, hence the name “terrormancer”. The problem is that we have Terror with what is seemingly another absolutely must have trait: the revamped Lingering Curses, which received a major buff IMO.
-Path of Corruption to be moved back to GM eventhough to me, it doesnt compete with Lingering curses unless it corrupts saaay 4 boons?
-Target the Weak still contributes nothing to a condi build, I honestly think Path of Corruption (or Terror) would sit very nicely as a 3rd minor trait.
I think reshuffling the master and GM traits is a must, since Terror vs Lingering curses I think will do more harm than good to condi builds

MAN.9046:

However I think that with some minor changes this has alot of potential, a major (at least for me) change was that Haemophilia is now merged with barbed precision, thus making room for Enfeebling Blood, which is great for obvious reasons.

Weakening Shroud (Enfeebling Blood on DS entry) was actually nerfed, because they added a 25sec ICD to it, so I´m not all to happy about that

MAN.9046:

Now, here is how the rest could be fixed:
-Terror takes its place back in master traits or is made to be the 3rd Minor trait, this is since Terror is a must have trait for any Necro condi build, hence the name “terrormancer”. The problem is that we have Terror with what is seemingly another absolutely must have trait: the revamped Lingering Curses, which received a major buff IMO.
-Path of Corruption to be moved back to GM eventhough to me, it doesnt compete with Lingering curses unless it corrupts saaay 4 boons?
-Target the Weak still contributes nothing to a condi build, I honestly think Path of Corruption (or Terror) would sit very nicely as a 3rd minor trait.
I think reshuffling the master and GM traits is a must, since Terror vs Lingering curses I think will do more harm than good to condi builds

I think having to make a choice between Terror and Lingering Curse isn´t that bad. It is basically condi-“burst” vs more condi-damage over a longer period of time, which is fine I guess.
What I don´t like about Lingering Curse is that it probably will be very powerful in PvP, but pretty useless in PvE, because you can achieve 100% increased condi-duration by other means (food) very easily. I think they should keep the condi-duration increase the way it is now (33% base condi-duration; i.e. does not count towards maximum condi-duration) and just add the +150 condi-damage while wielding scepter.

The real problem is Parasitic Contagion, it doesn´t do enough for a GM trait (even with lets say ~7 stacks of bleeding, poison and 1-2 stacks of torment on your target the healing is laughable) and it really should be in Blood Magic not Curses.
That way there would also be room for a new GM trait in Curses useable by power builds (which we´ll lack otherwise, rendering Curses as a suboptimal choice for power builds).

Skoigoth.9238:

MAN.9046:

However I think that with some minor changes this has alot of potential, a major (at least for me) change was that Haemophilia is now merged with barbed precision, thus making room for Enfeebling Blood, which is great for obvious reasons.

Weakening Shroud (Enfeebling Blood on DS entry) was actually nerfed, because they added a 25sec ICD to it, so I´m not all to happy about that

MAN.9046:

Now, here is how the rest could be fixed:
-Terror takes its place back in master traits or is made to be the 3rd Minor trait, this is since Terror is a must have trait for any Necro condi build, hence the name “terrormancer”. The problem is that we have Terror with what is seemingly another absolutely must have trait: the revamped Lingering Curses, which received a major buff IMO.
-Path of Corruption to be moved back to GM eventhough to me, it doesnt compete with Lingering curses unless it corrupts saaay 4 boons?
-Target the Weak still contributes nothing to a condi build, I honestly think Path of Corruption (or Terror) would sit very nicely as a 3rd minor trait.
I think reshuffling the master and GM traits is a must, since Terror vs Lingering curses I think will do more harm than good to condi builds

I think having to make a choice between Terror and Lingering Curse isn´t that bad. It is basically condi-“burst” vs more condi-damage over a longer period of time, which is fine I guess.
What I don´t like about Lingering Curse is that it probably will be very powerful in PvP, but pretty useless in PvE, because you can achieve 100% increased condi-duration by other means (food) very easily. I think they should keep the condi-duration increase the way it is now (33% base condi-duration; i.e. does not count towards maximum condi-duration) and just add the +150 condi-damage while wielding scepter.

The real problem is Parasitic Contagion, it doesn´t do enough for a GM trait (even with lets say ~7 stacks of bleeding, poison and 1-2 stacks of torment on your target the healing is laughable) and it really should be in Blood Magic not Curses.
That way there would also be room for a new GM trait in Curses useable by power builds (which we´ll lack otherwise, rendering Curses as a suboptimal choice for power builds).

I rly love the new lingering curse , would be a bummer if it got nerfed. And I didn t know Weakening Shroud got an ICD

Player.8373:

I rly love the new lingering curse , would be a bummer if it got nerfed.

It is a matter of preference I guess. I prefer increased base duration over higher duration overall since afaik base duration can´t be increased by any means other than traits.

Player.8373:

And I didn t know Weakening Shroud got an ICD

Yeah, it really sucks =/ It will be dagger off-hand #5 on DS entry basically, hence the 25sec cooldown. I doubt they will take it back, because then it wouldn´t fit their new “effects caused by traits should correspond to weapon/utility skills”-philosophy anymore.

Regarding the topic of Curses GM traits, a lot of really solid suggestions have been made already in other threads. Two option I´d like are…

• Reworked Withering Precision: Chance for weakness on crits (no ICD), 10% increased damage against weakened foes
• Renamed version of the current Target the Weak (“Cull the Weak” maybe?): 2% increased damage for each condition on a foe

But that of course still requires the removal of one GM trait (preferably Parasitic Contagion), or merging two traits in the line.

Skoigoth.9238:

Player.8373:

I rly love the new lingering curse , would be a bummer if it got nerfed.

It is a matter of preference I guess. I prefer increased base duration over higher duration overall since afaik base duration can´t be increased by any means other than traits.

Player.8373:

And I didn t know Weakening Shroud got an ICD

Yeah, it really sucks =/ It will be dagger off-hand #5 on DS entry basically, hence the 25sec cooldown. I doubt they will take it back, because then it wouldn´t fit their new “effects caused by traits should correspond to weapon/utility skills”-philosophy anymore.

Regarding the topic of Curses GM traits, a lot of really solid suggestions have been made already in other threads. Two option I´d like are…

• Reworked Withering Precision: Chance for weakness on crits (no ICD), 10% increased damage against weakened foes
• Renamed version of the current Target the Weak (“Cull the Weak” maybe?): 2% increased damage for each condition on a foe

But that of course still requires the removal of one GM trait (preferably Parasitic Contagion), or merging two traits in the line.

They could still simply remove the CD from the trait-version but otherwise keep it enfeebling blood. Whats way worse is that the falldamage trait now gives you self weakness cause it is the stupid, useless CPC. And you have to take it if you want that CDR.

Well iirc they will not only change traits, but skills aswell, so maybe CPC won’t be as useless as it is now… (Yeah right, as if).

@Shiki: Yeah, I think most Necros can agree that the self-weakness on CPC is absolutely terribad and needs to be changed to something else. Otherwise the skill and with that also the associated trait (Fall damage reduction, cast CPC on landing and 20% Corruption skill recharge) will not be worthwhile taking most of the times.

Changing the effect to self-poison or self-torment would be decent maybe, but in addition to that the skill should get buffed a bit more I think. I play the game since launch and I believe I´ve never thought to myself “kitten ! if only I had slotted CPC right now!!”. Not. Even. Once.

Adding projectile block to CPC was suggested a couple of times and I like the idea. We need more utility and more active defense. And having a field that blocks projectiles on fall damage would be really nice while roaming in WvW, jumping down a cliff to escape a pack of LB-rangers, hungry for blood =P

I never got the self poison/self bleeding crap we have to deal with. I mean, its not like we are outtputing huge amounts of damage that we too have to suffer. Hahaha they give us weak skills and then we take the same amount of damage in return. Design failure, and ill thought out

Gryph.8237:

I never got the self poison/self bleeding crap we have to deal with. I mean, its not like we are outtputing huge amounts of damage that we too have to suffer. Hahaha they give us weak skills and then we take the same amount of damage in return. Design failure, and ill thought out

I actually like the interactions with corruptions as the necromancer synergizes with them very well. You aren’t actually hurting yourself be afflicting yourself with conditions. I always pop corruptions all at the same time then use off hand dagger to pass them off to add even more stacks of conditions or staff’s mark to turn all the conditions I’ve put on myself into boons. You could also use them to set up a bigger heal, pass them on using the signet, or again give yourself a bunch of boons using a well.

Necromancers have a lot of ways to make corruptions completely beneficial or more deadly.

Dictan.4186:

or staff’s mark to turn all the conditions I’ve put on myself into boons.

Eeehm, that´s not how Putrid Mark works, or am I crazy?

Skoigoth.9238:

Dictan.4186:

or staff’s mark to turn all the conditions I’ve put on myself into boons.

Eeehm, that´s not how Putrid Mark works, or am I crazy?

Yea actually that is wrong. I mixed up the effects of well of power and putrid mark since I usually play with dagger/ dagger, staff and well if I am using corruptions. The point is necromancers have a lot of different skills to tear off or turn conditions into a positive. It’s not as if corruptions actually leave us at a disadvantage. Utilizing corruptions with out using condition manipulation is just asking for trouble outside of a power build using blood is power.

MAN.9046:

Target the Weak still contributes nothing to a condi build

1. Crit chance is good for all kinds of builds, especially for condition builds when you get Barbed Precision as a minor trait.
2. This trait somewhat compensates the loss of stats that were tied to the trait line.
3. One of the biggest issues with the Curses grandmaster traits: this specialization is not supposed to be exclusively for condition builds. There absolutely HAS to be a proper power trait in the gm tier, and of course universally usuable minor traits.

Skoigoth.9238:

Player.8373:

And I didn t know Weakening Shroud got an ICD

Yeah, it really sucks =/ It will be dagger off-hand #5 on DS entry basically, hence the 25sec cooldown. I doubt they will take it back, because then it wouldn´t fit their new “effects caused by traits should correspond to weapon/utility skills”-philosophy anymore.

If at least one person at Anet would play necro they’d have never implemented Weakening Shroud and Spiteful Spirit with icds. It’s inevitable that the cooldowns of Death Shroud and those traits will overlap in a way that the actual procs will exceed those icds by far, maybe by more than double.

Player.8373:

I rly love the new lingering curse , would be a bummer if it got nerfed.

It really wouldn’t. Think about it, LC is a gigantic double-edged sword if there ever was one.
Is it strong? Sure. But a lot of other duration extension lose their value because you intantly max out everything with this trait. Also, any further balancing would be done with the possibility in mind that you could just double up every duration with Lingering Curse. And that means that you’re screwed if you don’t use a scepter + LC.

And like Skoigoth already said, in PvE it’s just a flat nerf.

Skoigoth.9238:

I think they should keep the condi-duration increase the way it is now (33% base condi-duration; i.e. does not count towards maximum condi-duration) and just add the +150 condi-damage while wielding scepter.

I don’t mind the general duration buff, but 100% is just rediculous. And yes, they should keep the base duration increase.

Just fyi, it’s not 33%. In fact to this day I don’t understand why the tooltip would include this highly misleading number. All scepter conditions are increased by a different amount of full seconds, non of which by 33%. And since it modifies the skill itself you can again increase that amount by 100%. So for example 5 sec bleed on Blood Curse becomes 7 sec with the trait, so when you increase that by 100% you’ve actually gained 180% on your original 5 seconds.
Anyway, the tooltip should just say “increases the scepter’s durations”.

Skoigoth.9238:

The real problem is Parasitic Contagion, it doesn´t do enough for a GM trait (even with lets say ~7 stacks of bleeding, poison and 1-2 stacks of torment on your target the healing is laughable) and it really should be in Blood Magic not Curses.

I disagree.
I think it’s absolutely wrong to dump every healing trait in Blood Magic. For two reasons:

1. Healing shouldn’t be exclusive to a single specialization. If it is viable you’ll just make it a mandatory pick, if it isn’t you don’t have any sustain left in the other lines.

2. Blood Magic will never be viable unless healing through Death Shroud is possible and 100% unrestricted. Before then every “let’s put this in BM..” is just a euphemism for “this trait sucks, let’s move it to a place where no one will ever use it”.

And btw, I actually think Parasitic Contagion can be a very decent trait and a viable defensive alternative to (a nerfed) Lingering Curse if you could heal through Shroud.

So just to make it my position on the matter clear again:
Parasitic Contagion (if you could heal through DS) and Lingering Curse (if the duration is reduced to ~30%) are appropriate grandmaster traits in Curses.
Terror is the one that needs to be merged with a minor trait, and in turn there should be a viable pick for power builds in the gm tier instead.

Target the weak helps Barbed Precision and sigil of torment and benefits from the nature of necro it’s worth staying. In an other thread I proposed replacing Reaper’s Precision with a 8% version of Parasitic Contagion that works in DS, CPC applies self torment, Lingering Curse gives a 180 AoE condition damage buff to you and allies 600 radius,reduces scepter CD by 20% and increase your condition duration by 33%, Terror gets a 10-15% damage boost and a new GM trait that increases crit damage based on condition on foes 3-4% per condition.

Edit: Don’t give the AoE condition damage buff to revenant.

flow.6043:

If at least one person at Anet would play necro they’d have never implemented Weakening Shroud and Spiteful Spirit with icds. It’s inevitable that the cooldowns of Death Shroud and those traits will overlap in a way that the actual procs will exceed those icds by far, maybe by more than double.

Yeah absolutely, it doesn´t make sense to have ICDs on skills that trigger on an ability that has a CD already. But as I said, I´m kinda pessimistic about that. Whenever A-net comes up with a “genius” new design philosophy they seem to be very reluctant to drop and revert it immediately, no matter how unhappy people are with it. The NPE changes e.g., seems like it took them about half a year to realize that what people told them already back in September was actually true.

flow.6043:

Just fyi, it’s not 33%. In fact to this day I don’t understand why the tooltip would include this highly misleading number. All scepter conditions are increased by a different amount of full seconds, non of which by 33%. And since it modifies the skill itself you can again increase that amount by 100%. So for example 5 sec bleed on Blood Curse becomes 7 sec with the trait, so when you increase that by 100% you’ve actually gained 180% on your original 5 seconds.
Anyway, the tooltip should just say “increases the scepter’s durations”.

Oh wow, I didn´t know that the tool-tip is off tbh, I don´t use Lingering Curse much these days since I only play Condi-Necro in PvP (and PoC is just more important to have there imo). Sounds like a “it´s a feature”-bug to me if anything, but I really don´t know enough about how the trait actually works currently to make a valid statement I guess.

Any further clarification on that would be greatly appreciated.

flow.6043:

I disagree.
I think it’s absolutely wrong to dump every healing trait in Blood Magic. For two reasons:

1. Healing shouldn’t be exclusive to a single specialization. If it is viable you’ll just make it a mandatory pick, if it isn’t you don’t have any sustain left in the other lines.

2. Blood Magic will never be viable unless healing through Death Shroud is possible and 100% unrestricted. Before then every “let’s put this in BM..” is just a euphemism for “this trait sucks, let’s move it to a place where no one will ever use it”.

I must admit, point #2 describes my general thought process in this matter pretty accurately X)
At this point, I´ve given up on BM ever becoming a useful trait-line for reasons other then just-for-fun, fluff and rp (“I r vampyr, can I haz teh blood?”).

flow.6043:

So just to make it my position on the matter clear again:
Parasitic Contagion (if you could heal through DS) and Lingering Curse (if the duration is reduced to ~30%) are appropriate grandmaster traits in Curses.
Terror is the one that needs to be merged with a minor trait, and in turn there should be a viable pick for power builds in the gm tier instead.

Yes I could see PC being not so horrible if heals through DS really become a thing, but I still don´t think it should necessarily be a Curses GM trait on its own. I am convinced it is to weak for that, nobody will ever take it.
Maybe it could be merged with the toned-down version of LC you suggested? Then we would have Terror as a “pure offense/burst-condi” option and ~30% Lingering Curse (with PC merged into it) as a mixed “sustained damage/sustained heal” option.

But either way, the most important thing is that SOMETHING makes room for a power-based GM trait in Curses. I think we all agree on that one =)