Guild Wars 2

http://www.gw2build.com/builds/simulator.php#1.5.2.7.13.0.1.5.5.0.106.118.125.126.128.4.4.1.304.0.0.317.322.326.332.338.0.346.0.0.0.0.0.10.30.20.10.0

Cookie cutter condition PvP/PvE build, how do you all feel about it today?

Engies still do it better, so I feel it is just as useless as any other build. It may work better than most builds for our class, but still doesn’t work as well as even a decent Engi… (Also, try using signet of spite with that build. May work out for the better imo)

@DoctorWhy, I highly doubt engineers can hit 20 bleeds on around 40 targets like I can, each ticking for 140+, plus the poison I put out.

Try using Blood is Power, it will give you 10 stacks of might which buff condition damage, then send the self bleeds from it to your main target then Epidemic.

I find on my condition necro that I am more durable and have higher damage output than anyone else in my dungeon groups (yes, I have compared stats) I had higher armor and health than a tank specced guardian while still doing over 2.5k to 3k dps from my conditions alone.

Signet of spite is terrible imo, might be ok for pvp, but a lot of those conditions are useless or pointless in PvE. I would recommend either Well of Suffering or Well of Darkness for PvE. Well of Darkness really helps against trash mobs or just pulling a ton of enemies for a epidemic combo.

Let me first say that I think you are talking out of your kitten or playing with really bad players. I have created several other characters (everything but a ranger), and I can’t get tankier than my guardian she is not even min-maxed. Being able to put on 20 stacks of bleed is nothing, given that every class has a way to get rid of them, and thieves usually get 25 stacks on before I can get any (considering they always seem to initiate, because of their mobility). The point is not to put on a giant stack at once, but to be able to consistently put conditions on them so they have absolutely no way of getting rid of all of them. Condition engies are the scariest thing I have gone up against, and I generally use consume conditions and plague signet.

I don’t doubt you have a better necro build than me, but I have tried various builds that people say are viable here on the forum, yet my other characters can do one or the other better.

Your build probably works rather well for PvE, though.

@Thor Rising

You cannot put 20 bleeds on 40 targets. There is an AOE cap at 5 enemies, so even if you do stack 20+ bleeds on a target you’re only ever putting those bleeds on 6 targets via epidemic.

Signet of Spite is trash for PvP. At least with Plague Signet, you can send your own condi’s onto others.

The only issue with condi’s that I feel is exactly what some are addressing in this thread: They are too easily removed.

I want to know what jerk designed a profession around one viable build that is so easily trolled by every other class.

It seems like a huge design flaw that you can spend so much time putting condi’s on your target and other targets, only to have them naturally fall off in a few seconds, or have them wiped clean almost instantaneously.

There are two options with this issue:
1. Make condi’s easier to apply, and faster (this would probably make condi’s OP)
2. Give the Necro (as we are the prof that is supposed to focus on condi’s more than others) an ability/trait that doesn’t allow their condi’s to be wiped off for a given amount of time, or have severe penalties that will further degrade the enemy player, and also buff the Necro, for wiping them off.

Point being: it’s way too easy to stop conditions from having a real effect and dealing a viable and competitive amount of DPS in PvP (PvE it’s a bit better but c’mon).

Any class that runs good condition removal and good heals with lots of toughness gives me (condition necro) a run for my money. We are not good at 1v1 in a fight with a char that decked. But we are good at holding a point till people can come help. We are good an laying down TONS of support. At least thats how I play.

men.. necromancer is quite good.. it’s a team game.. u are strong if ur team is it!!
we are pretty good tank and our conditions make their job very nice.. with 27k of life and 2k of armour u can go 2vs1 and the victory is not too far!!
u reach quite simple 18 stacks of bleeding ( and we are bugged), plus poison, chilled, blind and crippled.. then with epidemic everythink gonna be allright.. with about 140 damage at bleeding pulse, after a few second of combat we are a true dps.. using DS propoerly grants good bonus.. i don’t see our necro so bad.. in each case.. if u want a dps or a blaster THIS one is not ur class..
necro is hard to play.. but can give a lot of good time

Sparda: Necromancer CAN be good, yes. But there are just 2 builds that work well, and other classes do them better: Condition and power/crit. We don’t have a single thing that is better than another class. So even if we can be “good”, we can’t be “great” at anything. That is our problem. We want the necro to be unique and fun to play. But with all the bugs and current balance/ANets blind faith in DS, necros are not as viable as other classes. I just want another class to be “Oh kitten, a necro. I am not sure if I can take them”. Right now, it is “Oh, a necro? Let me just quickly kill them. Oh, you went into DS… well, your damage is miniscule, and your health still melts, so oh well. Oh, you did a power build? I can still out DPS you and eat through both of your bars of health before you can eat through mine”. <—- Assuming a decent player with almost any other class.

Don’t get me wrong. I love my necro, and like her better than all the other classes I tried out, mainly because many games don’t have necros and I love the concept. I just want to feel as useful as a thief, guardian, mesmer, or engi does, in WvW and dungeons.

I expected Necro to excel at minions and life leech!

I actually play condition Engi as my main. Adding bleeds since the 4s -> 2s pistol nerf is not so easy anymore. One needs to use the rifle’s blunderbuss combined with the shrapnel grenade and the elixir gun auto-attack to reach 10, and there’s a lot of kit switching going on there, meaning that’s ALL an engineer is doing. Consider that the rifle is actually a power weapon, there is a lack of synergy there.

Condition engineer is about the combination of bleeds, burns, and poisons, conducted in melee to mid range, and at most half of that is AoE, and the AoE versions are weaker. So while engineers can do comparable damage to condition necro, I wouldn’t call it superior.

As for the OPs build, sorry no comment. I’ve only gotten my necro to level 27, much of it in WvWvW, so I haven’t even touched the second tier yet.

lol.. anyway, right now, i enjoy a lot with necro.. just tounderstand.. me too hope one day we’ll have some stronger, but atm i do my job.. and my team count on me for conditions theme..
i hope that DS will be change.. i like have a secondary life, but sometimes i cannot go in DS cause my build broken without my utility used to reach high DPS with bleeding..
but, yeah doctorwhy.. i cannot say that when somebody sees at me he says: let me shot him for first.. and it’s embarassing

I have spoken about this in other threads. but once again people are making the mistake of thinking necro is “master of condition damage” its master of conditions in the sense they have many ways to spread em, stack various disabling ones “higher amount of cripple/weaken/chill/fear” and the ability to transfer them off themselves or turn boons to conditions.

But damage? we have no burning. Burning is the highest damage condition and is found in large amounts on other professions. Engineer has access to plenty of bleeds, poison AND burning…AND confusion. So when bleeds are at 25, they’re getting tic’s off 2 other conditions. Also every profession can go condition damage, its not a unique trait of this profession…many professions can quickly stack bleed and/or poison.
anyway heres more info on the subject.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Condition-damage-mini-guide

I don’t like condition damage spec for a variety of reasons (PvE):

- Condition damage from multiple sources (players) don’t stack well, and if there’s more than 1 heavily condition damage specced player around, you’ll end up hitting the 25stack cap quickly and doing way less damage than you should.

- Condition builds are horrible vs objects.

- The best condition damage stats combo (Toughness + Precision + Condition Damage) is impossible to get on jewelry in PvE, and for armor and weapons you need to farm explorer mode dungeons to get those stat combos. Also since not every dungeon has those stats available, if you don’t like the look of those sets, you’ll have to farm double to get the set you like the look of + the set with the stats for transmutations.

- +% damage doesn’t work with condition damage. That means the grandmaster Spite trait that gives us +20% damage vs enemies below 50% HP does nothing for condition damage. Neither does the Potions of X Slaying (where X is whichever dungeon you’re doing, Undead for Arah, for instance), which gives +10% damage done vs X, and -10% damage taken from X. So condition builds only receives the -10% damage taken, not the extra damage done.

It’s a shame, really, because I happen to like the condition damage necro as a concept, but there are just too much kitten in the design, that I feel like I’m forced to play power necro in PvE.

Also doesn’t really help for condition necro that power necro builds up vulnerability stacks a lot faster, which is amazing in explorer dungeons.

I do however play a tanky condition spec in sPvP, which works fairly well for the most part.

well.. i cannot say to have studied all other professions like necro, but we can have an excellent CC.. try to think at the way to leave the conditions out from us.. with 3 ways to do rarely we have condi problem.. other classes can just heal, or share.. once..
we are not condi master, of course.. either we should have something likes " trasfer 5% of “X” in condition damage.. like mesmer maybe.. or " for the first 5 seconds the condition cannot be taken away by healing or other way" ( just to use immagination)..
anyway, i’ve never sees a mesmer with 26k of life

Purely spvp/tpvp, since I am level 15 atm:

Of all the classes I have tried, necro is strangely the one I like the most … and initially the one I disliked the most, and since it was a major char for me in GW1, the one I was most disappointed with.

I am using a condi-build much like the one posted, apart from epidemic (which I feel is a bit underwhelming) and signet. Since I use Spectral-skills instead, I have spend points to support that.

I have tried a few variations over this, tried power/crit and also tried support/hybrid-speccs. I don’t seem to have to problems I had initially, and just plain enjoy it. It has become everything I hoped it to be. Now I just have to get it to 80 … only 65 levels to go :P

PS: As for the “only 2 builds” … I am still just a noob at necro, but I did see this build in action (Team Paradigm):
http://www.gw2build.com/builds/simulator.php#1.5.7.2.0.13.31.1.0.29.106.108.110.123.130.6.6.29.0.0.0.318.317.0.332.334.0.348.0.0.363.370.0.0.20.20.10.20
And it worked more than ok (Mwiff). That certainly made me think a bit out of the box.

SgtSarcasm.1653:

- The best condition damage stats combo (Toughness + Precision + Condition Damage) is impossible to get on jewelry in PvE, and for armor and weapons you need to farm explorer mode dungeons to get those stat combos. Also since not every dungeon has those stats available, if you don’t like the look of those sets, you’ll have to farm double to get the set you like the look of + the set with the stats for transmutations.
.

You can get T/P/C armors for Karma. I do quite often WvWvW on necro and Karma gain is really fast. Only item I cant buy T/P/C is chest for Karma. Rest is there.

and yes you need to use transmutation stones as stats are spread among many different armors.

VictorTroska.3725:

SgtSarcasm.1653:

- The best condition damage stats combo (Toughness + Precision + Condition Damage) is impossible to get on jewelry in PvE, and for armor and weapons you need to farm explorer mode dungeons to get those stat combos. Also since not every dungeon has those stats available, if you don’t like the look of those sets, you’ll have to farm double to get the set you like the look of + the set with the stats for transmutations.
.

You can get T/P/C armors for Karma. I do quite often WvWvW on necro and Karma gain is really fast. Only item I cant buy T/P/C is chest for Karma. Rest is there.

and yes you need to use transmutation stones as stats are spread among many different armors.

However, outside of the Triforge Pendant, there is no rare or exotic piece of jewelry that has toughness and condition damage, at least according to the database.

The armor is possible to get — there is a dropped set as well, but jewelry is non-existant.

I firmly believe that condition damage should have a sigil for spvp that makes it deal more damage. There is 5% more crit, 5% more damage, there are none for conditions. Making condition duration actually does not increase their damage per second. I tested this out.

Say you have a 2,000 bleed for 10 seconds. Increasing duration by 10% = 2,200 damage for 11 seconds. Which is the same amount of damage, only that it lasts longer. I say making it last longer isn’t helpful compared to the whole point of conditions, the whole point isn’t to have a person stacked with 40 seconds of bleed with our necro utility skill. Because they can cleanse it, making it useless.

I think the whole point should focus on making condition damage for our trait tree deal more damage, or add a sigil that gives us 5% more condition damage. Change our trait tree from 20% increased bleeding duration, to 20% increased bleed damage, and the master slot at the end of it, make it 33% increased bleeding damage, instead of duration. Stacking duration doesn’t kill them any faster, stacking damage does. The damage the ticks do doesn’t stack up to how much raw dps any other class can put out.

If I stand still I can die to most classes in 5 seconds, how long would it take using the best necro condition damage build? 30 seconds if they stand still? a minute if they cleanse? see the issue? they have a higher chance of killing us.

I really like the idea of swapping out some of our condi duration traits to condi damage. That would help a lot of these issues.

The problem still remains that condi’s are extremely easy to remove (some classes don’t even have to DO anything for their passives to cleanse themselves in seconds) and have no drawback to removing them.

I hate to bring up “The Game That Must Not Be Named,” buuuuuuuut, in WoW, removing harmful spells from a player would result in a large loss in mana, as the spell would consume a lot, and depending on what was being cleansed, could have negative ramifications on the cleanser, e.g. receiving a “silence” debuff for cleansing off a harmful damage over time spell.

This would help a lot as well, especially in 1v1 scenarios, which like it or not, based on this being a “team” game, happens very often.