Guild Wars 2

As we all know, Axe is the worst weapon in terms of statistics for a Necro, which is sad considering our only other ranged weapons available is Staff and Scepter, which are both primarily Condition-based and would serve best on likewise builds. The Axe, however, was clearly created to be a Power-based ranged weapon, which also clearly failed miserably. Lets take a look at how it is now, and how I believe it should be ‘fixed’:

Currently:
Axe 1 (autos) has a solid 1s attack speed with around 800 damage per swing with a full Exotic Power Build (Zerker gear) or around 880 with the Axe Trait trained. The only benefit from the autos is stacks of Vulnerability.

Axe 2 is the only ‘good’ Axe skill that dishes out a frenzy of slashes designed to regen a nice 13.5% lifeforce while providing a sharp dps spike for a few seconds. This skill would be great, if it weren’t so easily interrupted/dodged and if it did more than simply stuff our faces full of lifeforce.

Axe 3 is by far the worst skill, it’s melee-oriented and requires the enemy to surround you in order to receive the full benefit of the Retaliation effect. Only 1 enemy, the Boon is practically non-existant. 2 or 3 enemies and you’ll be able to benefit from the Boon briefly. The only other added benefit of this skill is the additional Boon Conversion on enemies, but yet again this requires you to be within melee range (defeating the purpose of a ranged weapon).

My propositions:

Axe 1 should regen lifeforce per strike while maintaining the added Vulnerability stacks. The attack speed should also be reduced to 3/4s per strike or the damage should be increased to compensate for the slower DPS (I personally think it should be closer to around 1000-1200 per swing at the very, very least), doing so would justify the slower, more vulnerable attack chain.

Axe 2 should keep the lifeforce regen (though with the regen now on autos I believe the lifeforce regen on this skill should be reduced to compensate) and either Weakness, Cripple or Vulnerability stacks should be applied per strike. Any of the 3 works best for a Power build.

Axe 3 needs a complete rework, and I propose turning it into a one shot Axe throw designed to transfer Conditions from yourself onto your enemy. Max number of Conditions transferred: 3 (like Dagger off-hand). Outside of this effect, this could be where a healthy stack of Weakness or Cripple is applied (whichever it is can’t be on Axe 2).

This is how I believe Axe should be, as it currently stands Axe is a confused Power Weapon that needs to be sharpened and polished. What are you thoughts?

(My Power Build btw: GS (Main) and Axe/Focus (Secondary) with full emphasis on Shroud and lifeforce regen while maintaining maximum Power (Strength stacks) and Crit Rate/Damage (Decimate Defenses, Death Perception). I use Axe only when I have to disengage and regen lifeforce when the GS puts me in a difficult situation, then I’m back in with Shroud to cut away. The only other times I’ve used my Secondary set is just for quick weak mob clears or when I need to regen lifeforce on the fly.)

Would you be willing to give up the instant non projectile hits on #1 and #2? Because that is pretty much the reason why Axe will never be buffed into usefulness. The guy in charge of creating Reaper said as much (I forget his name).

If making Axe become a projectile based weapon means making it an actual good power weapon… Fine.. Make it so.

Lahmia.2193:

Would you be willing to give up the instant non projectile hits on #1 and #2? Because that is pretty much the reason why Axe will never be buffed into usefulness. The guy in charge of creating Reaper said as much (I forget his name).

I’m all for any change that benefits Axe, so long as it either remains ranged or Dagger gets turned into a ranged Power Weapon (I mean, considering every skill for Dagger is ranged except the autos……..). We just need a good, solid ranged Power Weapon, every other weapon is more Condition-based or is flat out melee.

How’s about Axe 1 be reworked to where you throw the Axe instead of it slicing and dicing? And for Axe 2, I honestly don’t know cuz I do love this skill but maybe make it unblockable? You got me there to be honest, I’ll put my brain to work for a bit and come back with a better response.

Okami.7049:

(My Power Build btw: GS (Main) and Axe/Focus (Secondary)

Same! Maybe another time we could talk about how to make Focus #5 more useful in PvE. :P I posted a thread about it a few days ago but not many people posted.

Anyway, I like your ideas. For #3 I would like a pulsing effect… Pulse 3 times instead of 1, transfer condis on 1st hit and maybe add weakness on the last hit? Does that sound OP? :P Or whatever, just make it more fun and have better damage…

Lahmia.2193:

Would you be willing to give up the instant non projectile hits on #1 and #2? Because that is pretty much the reason why Axe will never be buffed into usefulness. The guy in charge of creating Reaper said as much (I forget his name).

Ok so after some heavy thought I’ve come up with this: change Dagger to a ranged-weapon (in other words, fix the autos so they are ranged rather than melee) and make Axe a melee-weapon. That makes the Axe autos more useful on a power/melee-oriented build and Axe 2 can easily be a melee-frenzy type of skill when you channel and go on a hack n slash spree. I still propose the same benefit additions in my original post, but this is the best way I can see Axe being viable without the ranged issue. This also makes the current Axe 3 viable and Axe/Warhorn would be a strong combo.

Thoughts?

Mea.5491:

Okami.7049:

(My Power Build btw: GS (Main) and Axe/Focus (Secondary)

Same! Maybe another time we could talk about how to make Focus #5 more useful in PvE. :P I posted a thread about it a few days ago but not many people posted.

Anyway, I like your ideas. For #3 I would like a pulsing effect… Pulse 3 times instead of 1, transfer condis on 1st hit and maybe add weakness on the last hit? Does that sound OP? :P Or whatever, just make it more fun and have better damage…

I’ll visit your post and see what I can contribute, because I agree Focus also needs a slight rework on the 5. If Axe is turned into a melee-weapon, I’d love that pulsing effect (which means it would have to be a channeled skill) for the 3. Weakness I really feel should be added to the 2, on the 3 I’d suggest Torment for a pulsing skill or even Fear.

I like axe how it is now. I’d be fine with more damage or other goodies, but I wouldn’t change the mechanics of how it works.

Since the damage boost, my success rate 1v1 against roamers in wvw has gone from 50-60% depending on the day to 80%+ (warriors are kittening cancer man). I’m drunk on extra damage, but since I was able to kill people before, it’s an easier to use boost for me.

Hesacon.8735:

I like axe how it is now. I’d be fine with more damage or other goodies, but I wouldn’t change the mechanics of how it works.

Since the damage boost, my success rate 1v1 against roamers in wvw has gone from 50-60% depending on the day to 80%+ (warriors are kittening cancer man). I’m drunk on extra damage, but since I was able to kill people before, it’s an easier to use boost for me.

I honestly like how it works currently as well, my original suggestions are what I’d love to see done with the weapon. I just proposed an alternative idea in case other people felt Axe should be melee-oriented, which I don’t agree with but there is those options as well.

We have two melee weapons and a melee shroud. They’re all underwhelming except in niche circumstances.

Hesacon.8735:

We have two melee weapons and a melee shroud. They’re all underwhelming except in niche circumstances.

All the more reason to fix Axe and possibly bring a new Ranged Power Weapon to the table. I, for one, have had no problem with melee weapons (like I said my main weapon is GS) and melee Shroud is amazing for me and my playstyle. I only find Axe underwhelming, personally, considering Necro is traditionally about self-sustain (lifesteal and minions typically come to mind) and not about burst or tanking. Dagger I feel should be a ranged weapon due to the fact that the other two abilities on the Main-hand skills are only really effective at range while the autos require you to be up in the enemy’s face, Greatsword is actually pretty good but is pretty slow so as far as dps is concerned, you’ll most likely be using this weapon for flat out burst rather than reliable dps. Axe is the only ranged power weapon that needs a SERIOUS look at because of the fact that it’s the only ranged weapon that isn’t Condition-based, but the dps is clearly not as good as dagger and only has its viability as a safe lifeforce regen weapon or for closing gaps before you swap to a melee weapon. Shroud I feel is pretty good where it’s at, you’re completely immune to direct damage while in it and it acts like a second health bar, so by running Blighter’s Boon (which I do) and building the way I did to constantly gain Might at all stages of a fight, I have a solid way of healing while in Shroud and a solid way to regain lifeforce faster outside of Shroud.

Personally, the only weapon I feel is seriously underwhelming is the Axe, Dagger I feel needs to be touched on too but that’s for a different post.

IMHO Axe is perfectly fine. It is filling the role that it should; modest damage from range for Power Reaper.

It’s even difficult to say that Dagger or Greatsword need help. Sure, they probably do, but necromancers are not viable or unviable because of their skills; power necro as a whole is not viable because its traits aren’t good. Survival tools that necros get out of Blood Magic and Death Magic don’t pull their weight. Death Shroud is more of a tomb than a bunker; if power necro was healable in Death Shroud maybe that wouldn’t be the case.

Every time. Every time an axe thread comes up there’s always one who says “Just make it melee!”. And I hope to god the devs never listen to that suggestion. Necro Axe is one of my favorite weapons in the game in terms of aesthetics and concept. Its not perfect, but its way more interesting than a melee axe. For that matter, if they changed the auto to a thrown projectile that’d tick me off too. We have Ranger axe for that. Necro axe is unique, and the idea of a Necro slashing his axe to cause phantom claws to slice an enemy is WAY more thematic and fitting than throwing axes around.

Making Axe melee and Dagger mid-ranged seems even more odd. Axe was already a mid-range weapon at one point. And people despised it for being mid-range. I highly doubt dagger would be any better received if it got the same treatment. You’d be changing our current melee weapon to a mid-range weapon and changing our current power ranged weapon to a melee weapon. Basically just turning Axe into Dagger and screwing Dagger up while messing up builds and strategies for no real gain.

I would be all in favor of a revamped #3 skill on Axe for sure, though. Its a relic of the days when axe was a mid-range weapon. But a 900-range PBAoE would be a little much, so they can’t just increase the range to fit the current weapon. It needs to be (mostly) scrapped and add a new skill to Axe. I’d probably go for a ground-targeted AoE with a large radius (about the size of Healing Rain). Single hit. Decent damage. Keep the 2-boons-to-conditions aspect. Apply Cripple to enemies, double the duration on Cripple if the enemy has no boons. Blast finisher. Visually, I picture a large ghostly claw slamming into the targeted area from above.

The current Axe3 can stay for the trait that procs on entering Shroud, though. So the skill doesn’t just cease to exist altogether.

Axe may need more than that, but I’d start with that and see where it goes from there. A major skill revamp is a pretty big change.

Sarrs.4831:

IMHO Axe is perfectly fine. It is filling the role that it should; modest damage from range for Power Reaper.

It’s even difficult to say that Dagger or Greatsword need help. Sure, they probably do, but necromancers are not viable or unviable because of their skills; power necro as a whole is not viable because its traits aren’t good. Survival tools that necros get out of Blood Magic and Death Magic don’t pull their weight. Death Shroud is more of a tomb than a bunker; if power necro was healable in Death Shroud maybe that wouldn’t be the case.

You can heal in Shroud, take Blighter’s Boon. Whenever you receive a Boon you heal, and since Shroud 1 grants Might you have a solid way to HoT your health back. I also run Strength Sigils and if you’re in a team, any ally that applies a Boon to you also contributes to healing you while you’re in Shroud. As a glass cannon, I fare quite well as a Power Necro and wouldn’t want to swap anything for ‘meta’ purposes; I may not be able to touch an Elementalist’s DPS but I do have nice sustain. I can solo the Lich in the Labrynth, by solo I mean I can stalemate the thing without fear of dying since it heals for more than I can damage but I sustain consistently enough to remain even with it.

Axe I agree I like how it is now, but it does need a buff. It’s the ONLY ranged power weapon we have yet it can’t compete with Scepter or even Staff, which are Condi-based weapons that wouldn’t benefit on/from a pure power build.

Now I will say I just recently swapped over to Dagger/Warhorn and have been doing better but there are plenty of times where I wish I had a strong, ranged power weapon to draw on (fast mob clear, when dealing with Bosses that I just can’t get into melee range or risk being targeted and mowed down such as the Labrynth Horror). As it stands, I just don’t see how viable it is compared to our other (limited) options.

Electro.4173:

Every time. Every time an axe thread comes up there’s always one who says “Just make it melee!”. And I hope to god the devs never listen to that suggestion. Necro Axe is one of my favorite weapons in the game in terms of aesthetics and concept. Its not perfect, but its way more interesting than a melee axe. For that matter, if they changed the auto to a thrown projectile that’d tick me off too. We have Ranger axe for that. Necro axe is unique, and the idea of a Necro slashing his axe to cause phantom claws to slice an enemy is WAY more thematic and fitting than throwing axes around.

Making Axe melee and Dagger mid-ranged seems even more odd. Axe was already a mid-range weapon at one point. And people despised it for being mid-range. I highly doubt dagger would be any better received if it got the same treatment. You’d be changing our current melee weapon to a mid-range weapon and changing our current power ranged weapon to a melee weapon. Basically just turning Axe into Dagger and screwing Dagger up while messing up builds and strategies for no real gain.

I would be all in favor of a revamped #3 skill on Axe for sure, though. Its a relic of the days when axe was a mid-range weapon. But a 900-range PBAoE would be a little much, so they can’t just increase the range to fit the current weapon. It needs to be (mostly) scrapped and add a new skill to Axe. I’d probably go for a ground-targeted AoE with a large radius (about the size of Healing Rain). Single hit. Decent damage. Keep the 2-boons-to-conditions aspect. Apply Cripple to enemies, double the duration on Cripple if the enemy has no boons. Blast finisher. Visually, I picture a large ghostly claw slamming into the targeted area from above.

The current Axe3 can stay for the trait that procs on entering Shroud, though. So the skill doesn’t just cease to exist altogether.

Axe may need more than that, but I’d start with that and see where it goes from there. A major skill revamp is a pretty big change.

I never wanted to change it to melee or dagger to ranged for that matter, it was simply a side discussion in response to someone else where we were thinking outside the box. As you can see to my comment to the guy before you, I just swapped out Axe/Focus for Dagger/Warhorn. My original post still stands as my final opinion about Axe, my comments throughout the thread have just been replies and brainstorming possible alternatives.

Your suggestion for Axe 3 is actually pretty awesome and I’d love to have it turned into something like that. Have the Necro slam the Axe down on the ground and, likewise, have that huge claw-hand mimic its master’s action. Seems perfect to me, as for the effect I’d say pretty much keep the effects it has now, though since it’s a single-target skill now I’d say convert Boons to Conditions but don’t have the damage scale per Boon, rather I’d say gain a stack of Might per Boon Converted. I love your idea and honestly would prefer this one over the others thought up to be honest, it makes the most sense and doesn’t really change much of anything except making it more ranged-oriented.

Lahmia.2193:

Would you be willing to give up the instant non projectile hits on #1 and #2? Because that is pretty much the reason why Axe will never be buffed into usefulness. The guy in charge of creating Reaper said as much (I forget his name).

Well as long as the Damage Values of Axe stay the same in all Game Mode, it won’t be buffed to be useful. Otherwise it will be broken in PvP.

But I wouldn’t mind, making the Axe Stuff into Projectiles and then bumbing the Damage, if Anet sees it as the only Way to buff Axe then.

I dont get why axe is so hated, damage is pretty good now especially for skill 2 and the fact that its not projectile works good since there is too much proj hate in the game. axe is not a weapon which you camp for dps, its used with focus to build life force fast from range. My only suggestion would be to add a block/proj destroy to the skill 3, which would synergize wonderfully with the spite trait

Pelopidas.2140:

I dont get why axe is so hated, damage is pretty good now especially for skill 2 and the fact that its not projectile works good since there is too much proj hate in the game. axe is not a weapon which you camp for dps, its used with focus to build life force fast from range. My only suggestion would be to add a block/proj destroy to the skill 3, which would synergize wonderfully with the spite trait

We have Shroud 2 for the Projectile Destroy and Shroud 3 for Stability (pretty much the same as Block but you take damage). I used Axe for the same reason you stated, however when compared to Dagger/Warhorn the LF regen isn’t comparable; Dagger/Warhorn regens more and faster than Axe/Focus. Not to mention Axe/Focus requires 2 Traits to be viable (with the CDs and damage boost) while Dagger/Warhorn doesn’t. If Axe autos would regen LF that alone would be perfect.

I like the design of axe being a non projectile weapon. but it definitely needs some form of aoe. And even more important: LFregen on autoattack

so how about that:

Auto: add 1% Lifeforce per strike

2: cut LFgain down to 1%per strike (->8% total), maybe add some chill every 2nd strike

3: make this an aoe skill, necro slams axe into the ground, creating green “groundline” to its target and strikes the area around it with an attack
keep the attack as it is, add a 3s immob on main target, add 3s of protection for each hit, max.range to target still 600

would that help?

edit: the trait on entering shroud doesnt get the targetting ability so its almost unchanged

DEATHsCLAW.1978:

I like the design of axe being a non projectile weapon. but it definitely needs some form of aoe. And even more important: LFregen on autoattack

so how about that:

Auto: add 1% Lifeforce per strike

2: cut LFgain down to 1%per strike (->8% total), maybe add some chill every 2nd strike

3: make this an aoe skill, necro slams axe into the ground, creating green “groundline” to its target and strikes the area around it with an attack
keep the attack as it is, add a 3s immob on main target, add 3s of protection for each hit, max.range to target still 600

would that help?

edit: the trait on entering shroud doesnt get the targetting ability so its almost inchanged

I like your suggestion as well, so instead of it being a ranged AoE like Dagger 5 it would be more like Revenant’s linear AoEs that extends from the caster? That would be pretty cool, it would keep its viability in close-quarters while still being effective as a ranged skill.

What do you mean by your edit by the way? I’m confused, your wording threw me off (my apologies).

the edit was referring to the spite grandmaster trait which casts axe#3 on entering shroud

this would still cast axe#3 in a radius of 600 around the necromancer and not around its target (like it is now)

DEATHsCLAW.1978:

the edit was referring to the spite grandmaster trait which casts axe#3 on entering shroud

this would still cast axe#3 in a radius of 600 around the necromancer and not around its target (like it is now)

Oh facepalm gotcha, gotcha sorry about that and I agree, it should remain unchanged for the Trait. Actually I can see how it would be a viable Trait for Reaper builds who are purely melee-oriented, so changing it would actually be another hindrance.

axe 2 should grant might per strike but a long one so its rewarding to stay on axe and upkeep high might

Sublimatio.6981:

axe 2 should grant might per strike but a long one so its rewarding to stay on axe and upkeep high might

I like this one too! along with other changes tho

Sublimatio.6981:

axe 2 should grant might per strike but a long one so its rewarding to stay on axe and upkeep high might

Nice, never thought of it in a Boon sort of way, that would make perfect sense and reward players for building the Vulnerability stacks (which takes a LONG time to do). So if the autos applied a stack of might and vulnerability per strike and we gained like 1% lifeforce per strike then that’d perfect the Axe in my opinion, I mean I can easily make do with how Axe 2 is right now and Axe 3 does flat out suck but, again, can be doable on a Power build (just use it right before engaging with melee), I think it was primarily the autos that made Axe such a bad weapon. I mean, sitting there just slowly building Vulnerability stacks? I can easily cap Vulnerability on my targets within a couple of seconds, so why should I sit back and just hold 1 for five minutes instead?

Great thinking, as it stands now I don’t think we have a weapon that grants us a Boon on our autos, and this would be a perfect ‘first timer’!

I have tested a bit with Axe. GS and Dagger and while my Gear isn’t optimal ( too much Zerker Stuff on the Necro ) I would say that the Gap between Axe and Dagger or GS is still high. There was a 5k Gap between Axe and GS Rotation ( even GS Autoattack is better than an Axe Rotation ) in my Tests.

I’m improving my Gear so I can see the Values more precicely but right now for Axe to be competitive in Raids, it needs a big Damage Buff.

Hope they bring dual axe for necro with melee damage aoe with evades and lf generation.

Walhalla.5473:

I’m improving my Gear so I can see the Values more precicely but right now for Axe to be competitive in Raids, it needs a big Damage Buff.

The Axe isn’t meant to serve as a damaging weapon (why does everyone want every weapon to have high numbers?), it’s meant to serve as a support weapon. Rather than increase the damage, I’d rather increase the dps by lowering the cast time and adding a Boon to the autos. It’s a strong, ranged LF regen weapon but it still falls in comparison to the Dagger because Dagger autos regen LF, which means you don’t have a CD and can effectively fully refill your LF faster than Axe 2 can (since it has a CD). Not to mention Warhorn 5 is like a mini DoT shroud that also regens LF, so popping that and going in with Dagger autos will net you far more LF than a single burst of Axe 2.

GS I feel is a perfect power weapon, yeah it’s slow but it does hit pretty hard and the GS autos regen some nice chunks of LF as well (so Warhorn 5 then rotate in GS and you’ll also regen some nice big chunks of LF there as well). Axe I feel needs to just be sped up a bit, rather than increasing the damage, because even if you increase the damage you won’t be dealing enough to a fast moving/tough target because your attack speed is too slow. Greatsword even hits faster than Axe (only 3/4s per swing if I remember correctly with a 1s final swing) but it also serves a better purpose all around. GS autos can regen lifeforce and Chill (which, with the way I’m built, also applies Vulnerability stacks) whereas all Axe does is a steady flow of damage while stacking 1 stack of Vulnerability per strike. GS 3 will instantly apply over half the max stacks of Vulnerability within a second, whereas Axe is still trucking away trying to reach 10.

So, rather than increase the damage it needs to hit faster and have more side-effects to it. As it stands now, it’s a good starter weapon but once you get a Dagger you’re completely better off.

Okami.7049:

Hesacon.8735:

We have two melee weapons and a melee shroud. They’re all underwhelming except in niche circumstances.

All the more reason to fix Axe

I don’t think anything is wrong with it, it’s my favorite necro weapon and this last update made it into a great weapon for those who know how to use it.

Sarrs.4831:

Death Shroud is more of a tomb than a bunker; if power necro was healable in Death Shroud maybe that wouldn’t be the case.

I’d be satisfied if life steal worked in shroud. It fits the theme and would be a simple-but-not-gamebreaking boost.

I’m going to be completely honest with you, most people that still don’t like Axe either haven’t actually tried the weapon anytime in the last 6 months or have no actual idea how to posture with it. If you are playing Power Necromancer, you have bad matchups, just like everyone else. Axe on its own, however, has pretty much gained a very nice niche of being a weapon that applies respectable ranged pressure whenever an opponent tries to peel off of you to sustain and reset. However, it folds heavily to melee pressure. It has its strengths, and it has its weaknesses, so you as a player need to learn how to most properly posture yourself to gain maximum effectiveness out of the weapon. All in all I’ve been pleased with its power level, as well as how fun it is to play Axe/Focus+Greatsword.

Hesacon.8735:

I’d be satisfied if life steal worked in shroud. It fits the theme and would be a simple-but-not-gamebreaking boost.

Life steal does work in shroud.

I don’t think it really needs much. I’ve been running A/D since some weeks before the patch (and for those who’ve seen me post before, GS since forever) and have had massive success with the mix. Good melee, good range, lots of utility and solid burst damage and burst LF gain.

Honestly, I think the only weak aspect of the weapon right now is LF generation. Giving the AA a three-part chain with 2 vuln → 3 vuln → 2% LF and no vuln (repeat) instead of just repeating the same skill with 2 vuln would probably set the weapon up for greatness. That little bit extra sustained LF generation would probably be just enough to keep it fair but make it seem worthy enough to keep around rather than GC’ing/burning utility and swapping or going into shroud ASAP just because it provides so little purpose otherwise.

Lahmia.2193:

Hesacon.8735:

I’d be satisfied if life steal worked in shroud. It fits the theme and would be a simple-but-not-gamebreaking boost.

Life steal does work in shroud.

Couple weeks ago I tested sigil of leeching, sigil of blood, and life steal food. None of them stole life in shroud. The damage part of life stealing still did damage, but I gained no health.

Hesacon.8735:

Lahmia.2193:

Hesacon.8735:

I’d be satisfied if life steal worked in shroud. It fits the theme and would be a simple-but-not-gamebreaking boost.

Life steal does work in shroud.

Couple weeks ago I tested sigil of leeching, sigil of blood, and life steal food. None of them stole life in shroud. The damage part of life stealing still did damage, but I gained no health.

I’m guessing the life steal only applied to your life force then? Not sure if it would redirect to there, just thinking out loud so don’t mind me.

Zero Solstice.9754:

I’m going to be completely honest with you, most people that still don’t like Axe either haven’t actually tried the weapon anytime in the last 6 months or have no actual idea how to posture with it. If you are playing Power Necromancer, you have bad matchups, just like everyone else. Axe on its own, however, has pretty much gained a very nice niche of being a weapon that applies respectable ranged pressure whenever an opponent tries to peel off of you to sustain and reset. However, it folds heavily to melee pressure. It has its strengths, and it has its weaknesses, so you as a player need to learn how to most properly posture yourself to gain maximum effectiveness out of the weapon. All in all I’ve been pleased with its power level, as well as how fun it is to play Axe/Focus+Greatsword.

Personally, I know how Axe is meant to be used. The reason why this thread was created to begin with is because Axe is the ONLY power ranged weapon available to us, and as such it’s not much of a power weapon at all. As far as lifeforce regen is concerned, it’s not nearly as good as most tend to think (me included) compared to Dagger/Warhorn. If I do go back to Axe, I’d run Axe/Dagger since Focus has only one way to regain lifeforce and it’s a pretty weak skill to begin with, since the Regen will only apply to you when there’s no other allies around and the Vulnerability stacks are counter-intuitive when Axe autos apply consistent stacks. Just my take on it, with Dagger you have a means to transfer up to 3 Conditions from yourself (which is extremely useful) as well as Blind multiple enemies at the same time. Dagger 5 also applies Weakness and Bleeding in a small AoE while Focus 5 is a single target Chill that only really benefits you when the enemy has Boons. Again, just my take on the matter.

Axe as is, right now, is a subpar ranged power weapon that is only there for the slight burst lifeforce regen (every 6s or so) and the Vulnerability autos (which isn’t even really needed considering GS provides better stacks and even hits faster while providing more lifeforce regen).

I think they really oughta make the Axe trait alot more interesting. A flat damage bonus that only applies to vulnerability is pretty lame.

How would you feel if they added an effect onto the trait where every successful attack with the axe would give you 1 stack of might for 5 seconds? Too much?

Okami.7049:

GS I feel is a perfect power weapon, yeah it’s slow but it does hit pretty hard and the GS autos regen some nice chunks of LF as well (so Warhorn 5 then rotate in GS and you’ll also regen some nice big chunks of LF there as well). Axe I feel needs to just be sped up a bit, rather than increasing the damage, because even if you increase the damage you won’t be dealing enough to a fast moving/tough target because your attack speed is too slow. Greatsword even hits faster than Axe (only 3/4s per swing if I remember correctly with a 1s final swing) but it also serves a better purpose all around. GS autos can regen lifeforce and Chill (which, with the way I’m built, also applies Vulnerability stacks) whereas all Axe does is a steady flow of damage while stacking 1 stack of Vulnerability per strike. GS 3 will instantly apply over half the max stacks of Vulnerability within a second, whereas Axe is still trucking away trying to reach 10.

GS is hardly a perfect power weapon. Axe is actually superior to GS in pvp and even WvW.

Muchacho.2390:

Okami.7049:

GS I feel is a perfect power weapon, yeah it’s slow but it does hit pretty hard and the GS autos regen some nice chunks of LF as well (so Warhorn 5 then rotate in GS and you’ll also regen some nice big chunks of LF there as well). Axe I feel needs to just be sped up a bit, rather than increasing the damage, because even if you increase the damage you won’t be dealing enough to a fast moving/tough target because your attack speed is too slow. Greatsword even hits faster than Axe (only 3/4s per swing if I remember correctly with a 1s final swing) but it also serves a better purpose all around. GS autos can regen lifeforce and Chill (which, with the way I’m built, also applies Vulnerability stacks) whereas all Axe does is a steady flow of damage while stacking 1 stack of Vulnerability per strike. GS 3 will instantly apply over half the max stacks of Vulnerability within a second, whereas Axe is still trucking away trying to reach 10.

GS is hardly a perfect power weapon. Axe is actually superior to GS in pvp and even WvW.

If you actually read the words “I feel” within that sentence you’d realize that it’s my opinion and, as such, it’s the perfect power weapon FOR ME AND MY STYLE. I also don’t PvP nor do I WvW so that’s completely irrelevant. Besides, when up against someone with an Axe GS can easily pull them in, Blind/Cripple them with a DoT and apply 12 stacks of Vulnerability in seconds while Axe is busy hacking away trying to get 5 Vulnerability stacks going. Your 2 may be the only useful skill in that scenario, but it’d be foolish to even say GS is superior to Axe because you’d have a crap ton of variables to take into account as well (the type of gear, player experience, etc etc). Besides, last time I was in the PvP lobby (testing out my DpS on the immortal golem) everyone there was just typical arrogant PvPers who think killing each other is the only ‘fun’ way to play a game and all other modes are for scrubs. In other words: kids trying to act tough and failing miserably. Hence why I never PvP in MMOs, it’s never worth it and it’s its own community for a reason. WvW is essentially the same thing to me, just on a larger scale with a more PvE feel to it (pretty much 2 groups go to war is how I picture it).

I’m speaking only for my area of play which is PvE. I’m also simply speaking my opinion, just like you’re simply speaking yours. I personally find Axe to be the worst Necro weapon available, others may disagree but that is my rightful opinion.

Hesacon.8735:

Lahmia.2193:

Hesacon.8735:

I’d be satisfied if life steal worked in shroud. It fits the theme and would be a simple-but-not-gamebreaking boost.

Life steal does work in shroud.

Couple weeks ago I tested sigil of leeching, sigil of blood, and life steal food. None of them stole life in shroud. The damage part of life stealing still did damage, but I gained no health.

Ok so I just got back from my test and I can say with 100% fact that you CAN lifesteal in Shroud, however you have to have Blood Magic. I actually just ended up tweaking my build and now run Blood Magic, Spite, Reaper. Blighter’s Boon with Blood Magic is AMAZING considering how easy it is for you to gain Might; when you’re not in Shroud you’ll also regen a lot of LF so the way I’m built, yeah my Shroud doesn’t last as long as someone with Soul Reaping but I’m able to heal up extremely well in it (has allowed me to actually tank the Labrynth Horror and Viscount, haven’t tried the Lich yet) and hop in and out of it a lot faster. Since I’ve always used ‘Rise!’ that’s additional lifesteal as well as a damage reduction of 33% to me coming my way. It’s a solid self-sustaining build, and with Unholy Martyr from Blood Magic I’m actually able to stay in Shroud longer so long as my allies have Conditions for me to steal. If the Conditions get out of hand I can easily pop out of Shroud and use Dagger 4 to get rid of up to 3 of them, “Suffer!” to get rid of an additional one (or more depending on how many enemies are around me). Cooldowns for both are ridiculously low and the only time I’ve had to Rally so far tonight was when the Horror jumped us while we were finishing off the Viscount; I had to essentially take on both of them at the same time until King Candy Corn decided to finally die. I rallied a total of 3 times, the first was when the Horror caught me entirely by surprise and the other two were when I screwed up my rotation. We didn’t have any Doritos on the map to help so it was only like 5-6 of us. Not impossible, but painfully long lol

Anyways, you can lifesteal/regen while in Shroud, it just has to come from Traits not external sources such as Runes or Sigils.

Okami.7049:

Muchacho.2390:

Okami.7049:

GS I feel is a perfect power weapon, yeah it’s slow but it does hit pretty hard and the GS autos regen some nice chunks of LF as well (so Warhorn 5 then rotate in GS and you’ll also regen some nice big chunks of LF there as well). Axe I feel needs to just be sped up a bit, rather than increasing the damage, because even if you increase the damage you won’t be dealing enough to a fast moving/tough target because your attack speed is too slow. Greatsword even hits faster than Axe (only 3/4s per swing if I remember correctly with a 1s final swing) but it also serves a better purpose all around. GS autos can regen lifeforce and Chill (which, with the way I’m built, also applies Vulnerability stacks) whereas all Axe does is a steady flow of damage while stacking 1 stack of Vulnerability per strike. GS 3 will instantly apply over half the max stacks of Vulnerability within a second, whereas Axe is still trucking away trying to reach 10.

GS is hardly a perfect power weapon. Axe is actually superior to GS in pvp and even WvW.

If you actually read the words “I feel” within that sentence you’d realize that it’s my opinion and, as such, it’s the perfect power weapon FOR ME AND MY STYLE. I also don’t PvP nor do I WvW so that’s completely irrelevant. Besides, when up against someone with an Axe GS can easily pull them in, Blind/Cripple them with a DoT and apply 12 stacks of Vulnerability in seconds while Axe is busy hacking away trying to get 5 Vulnerability stacks going. Your 2 may be the only useful skill in that scenario, but it’d be foolish to even say GS is superior to Axe because you’d have a crap ton of variables to take into account as well (the type of gear, player experience, etc etc). Besides, last time I was in the PvP lobby (testing out my DpS on the immortal golem) everyone there was just typical arrogant PvPers who think killing each other is the only ‘fun’ way to play a game and all other modes are for scrubs. In other words: kids trying to act tough and failing miserably. Hence why I never PvP in MMOs, it’s never worth it and it’s its own community for a reason. WvW is essentially the same thing to me, just on a larger scale with a more PvE feel to it (pretty much 2 groups go to war is how I picture it).

I’m speaking only for my area of play which is PvE. I’m also simply speaking my opinion, just like you’re simply speaking yours. I personally find Axe to be the worst Necro weapon available, others may disagree but that is my rightful opinion.

Well then consider what i wrote as my opinion.

And in my opinion it is ignorant to call greatsword perfect when it is in such a pitiful state in pvp/wvw.

Also the way you talk about pvp is pretty arrogant aswell, so you are probably more similar to those “typical arrogant Pvper” then you may like.

But going back to your proposed axe changes.
The important one first, giving axe a condition transfer is certainly interesting but i dont think Anet would ever give a main hand weapon a condition transfer, when we already have a offhand weapon with condi transfer. If they really would give axe a condition removel it would probably more a skill that “consumes” them and gives health or boons back. But honestly i think they are ok with the current unholy feast, since it is a good skill (though i agree with you that axe is not the best place for it).

For rending claws and ghostly claws if i understand correctly you want simply better versions of them and some lifeforce from ghastly claws put on rending claws, so why not.

Hesacon.8735:

Lahmia.2193:

Hesacon.8735:

I’d be satisfied if life steal worked in shroud. It fits the theme and would be a simple-but-not-gamebreaking boost.

Life steal does work in shroud.

Couple weeks ago I tested sigil of leeching, sigil of blood, and life steal food. None of them stole life in shroud. The damage part of life stealing still did damage, but I gained no health.

None of those are actual life steals. They just do damage and heal you. I’m talking Blood Magic Vampiric/vamp aura/vamp wells here.

Okami.7049:

Sublimatio.6981:

axe 2 should grant might per strike but a long one so its rewarding to stay on axe and upkeep high might

Nice, never thought of it in a Boon sort of way, that would make perfect sense and reward players for building the Vulnerability stacks (which takes a LONG time to do). So if the autos applied a stack of might and vulnerability per strike and we gained like 1% lifeforce per strike then that’d perfect the Axe in my opinion, I mean I can easily make do with how Axe 2 is right now and Axe 3 does flat out suck but, again, can be doable on a Power build (just use it right before engaging with melee), I think it was primarily the autos that made Axe such a bad weapon. I mean, sitting there just slowly building Vulnerability stacks? I can easily cap Vulnerability on my targets within a couple of seconds, so why should I sit back and just hold 1 for five minutes instead?

Great thinking, as it stands now I don’t think we have a weapon that grants us a Boon on our autos, and this would be a perfect ‘first timer’!

You ever tried Axe with Strength sigils + runes? It’s already set up in a way that grants tons of might when done right. So I think it would be better if it wasn’t might that it gave us but rather fury or something.

I really like Axe, but Axe#3 feels stinky poo.

Maybe for each target hit that has no boons, you convert one of your conditions into a boon.

@: Muchacho (because I can’t even quote properly)

Well then consider what i wrote as my opinion.

And in my opinion it is ignorant to call greatsword perfect when it is in such a pitiful state in pvp/wvw.

Also the way you talk about pvp is pretty arrogant aswell, so you are probably more similar to those “typical arrogant Pvper” then you may like.

But going back to your proposed axe changes.
The important one first, giving axe a condition transfer is certainly interesting but i dont think Anet would ever give a main hand weapon a condition transfer, when we already have a offhand weapon with condi transfer. If they really would give axe a condition removel it would probably more a skill that “consumes” them and gives health or boons back. But honestly i think they are ok with the current unholy feast, since it is a good skill (though i agree with you that axe is not the best place for it).

For rending claws and ghostly claws if i understand correctly you want simply better versions of them and some lifeforce from ghastly claws put on rending claws, so why not.
__________________________________________________________________

Back to the PvP/WvW stuff, I clearly said I’m speaking about PvE and it’s clear GS is the best Power weapon for PvE at this time (considering you only have that, Dagger, and Axe to choose from). Dagger/Dagger (my now current setup) is great for Condition Removal and lifeforce regen, but doesn’t come near the power GS has (though the attack speed is lacking). Axe is ranged, which makes it useless in melee fights (which, even as a ranged weapon, it doesn’t do nearly enough damage when GS can finish off an enemy in half the time). Our opinions clearly differ on this topic, and it’s not really for this thread so I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

Just because I’m REPEATING what I witnessed in the PvP Lobby has nothing to do with how I am, especially since I don’t play PvP to begin with. That’s like me saying the same to you just because you play PvP. It’s ludicrous. Ever heard of don’t shoot the messenger? PvP and WvW, like I said, I could really care less about. They need their own servers with their own patches, frankly. ‘Balancing’ one thing in one mode will have a negative effect on that same thing in other modes. It’s always been like that, and until they decide to fix the system it will always be like that.

Thank you, and I feel like Unholy Feast should do just what you suggested based off of the name alone. Consume a Condition (or more) for lifeforce (for health would be a bit OP in my opinion, just imagine having Stacks of Bleed, Poison and Torment and just easily consuming them all for lifeforce, there’d be no way to DoT you).

Yannir.4132:

Okami.7049:

Sublimatio.6981:

axe 2 should grant might per strike but a long one so its rewarding to stay on axe and upkeep high might

Nice, never thought of it in a Boon sort of way, that would make perfect sense and reward players for building the Vulnerability stacks (which takes a LONG time to do). So if the autos applied a stack of might and vulnerability per strike and we gained like 1% lifeforce per strike then that’d perfect the Axe in my opinion, I mean I can easily make do with how Axe 2 is right now and Axe 3 does flat out suck but, again, can be doable on a Power build (just use it right before engaging with melee), I think it was primarily the autos that made Axe such a bad weapon. I mean, sitting there just slowly building Vulnerability stacks? I can easily cap Vulnerability on my targets within a couple of seconds, so why should I sit back and just hold 1 for five minutes instead?

Great thinking, as it stands now I don’t think we have a weapon that grants us a Boon on our autos, and this would be a perfect ‘first timer’!

You ever tried Axe with Strength sigils + runes? It’s already set up in a way that grants tons of might when done right. So I think it would be better if it wasn’t might that it gave us but rather fury or something.

I currently run Sigils of Force and Sigils of Strength on both of my weapons with Strength Runes as well. Getting Might is stupid easy for me so I understand your point. If it were Fury, though, that’d be a bit broken imo simply because we have Might stacks, now Fury, hell our entire offense just took a dozen steroids. Plus, how would that work with Decimate Defenses? It would make that Trait (or the weapon skill) pretty pointless, wouldn’kitten What if instead it granted us some form of small Regen?

Redfeather.6401:

I really like Axe, but Axe#3 feels stinky poo.

Maybe for each target hit that has no boons, you convert one of your conditions into a boon.

How would that work on enemies? If the Labrynthine Horror (for example) has stacks of Weakness and Cripple, would that convert those stacks into Might and Swiftness? It’s clear to me you meant allies-only, but I’m just wondering since you said ‘target’ rather than ‘ally’.

Okami.7049:

Hesacon.8735:

Lahmia.2193:

Hesacon.8735:

I’d be satisfied if life steal worked in shroud. It fits the theme and would be a simple-but-not-gamebreaking boost.

Life steal does work in shroud.

Couple weeks ago I tested sigil of leeching, sigil of blood, and life steal food. None of them stole life in shroud. The damage part of life stealing still did damage, but I gained no health.

Ok so I just got back from my test and I can say with 100% fact that you CAN lifesteal in Shroud, however you have to have Blood Magic.

(…)

Anyways, you can lifesteal/regen while in Shroud, it just has to come from Traits not external sources such as Runes or Sigils.

Lahmia.2193:

Hesacon.8735:

Lahmia.2193:

Hesacon.8735:

I’d be satisfied if life steal worked in shroud. It fits the theme and would be a simple-but-not-gamebreaking boost.

Life steal does work in shroud.

Couple weeks ago I tested sigil of leeching, sigil of blood, and life steal food. None of them stole life in shroud. The damage part of life stealing still did damage, but I gained no health.

None of those are actual life steals. They just do damage and heal you. I’m talking Blood Magic Vampiric/vamp aura/vamp wells here.

Blood magic is terrible. It defeats the purpose if the good forms of life steal are broken.

50% Chance on Critical: Steal Health
(Cooldown: 5 Seconds)

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Blood

Your next attack after swapping to this weapon while in combat steals some health. (Cooldown: 9 Seconds)

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Leeching

Nourishment(30 m): 66% chance to steal life on critical.
+70 precision
+10% Experience from kills

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Omnomberry_Pie

All steal life. Except they’re far better than blood magic.

So yeah, it’s broken.

In your opinion, that is. I find Blood Magic to sustain me nicely, especially when coupled with Blighter’s Boon. If all you want is to go in and auto away and steal enough health to essentially act as a free Healing Utility then sorry, that would be broken and I hope they never implement that.

This is a discussion for a separate thread, considering it has nothing to do with Axe or how to improve it. So please go make your own thread about the matter or hop back on topic with us. Thank you.

Okami.7049:

Lahmia.2193:

Would you be willing to give up the instant non projectile hits on #1 and #2? Because that is pretty much the reason why Axe will never be buffed into usefulness. The guy in charge of creating Reaper said as much (I forget his name).

I’m all for any change that benefits Axe, so long as it either remains ranged or Dagger gets turned into a ranged Power Weapon (I mean, considering every skill for Dagger is ranged except the autos……..). We just need a good, solid ranged Power Weapon, every other weapon is more Condition-based or is flat out melee.

How’s about Axe 1 be reworked to where you throw the Axe instead of it slicing and dicing? And for Axe 2, I honestly don’t know cuz I do love this skill but maybe make it unblockable? You got me there to be honest, I’ll put my brain to work for a bit and come back with a better response.

how about just swapping axe and dagger for functionality? i’d much rather swing an axe than a dagger. make ghastly claws a melee whirl or something.

Lightsbane.9012:

Okami.7049:

Lahmia.2193:

Would you be willing to give up the instant non projectile hits on #1 and #2? Because that is pretty much the reason why Axe will never be buffed into usefulness. The guy in charge of creating Reaper said as much (I forget his name).

I’m all for any change that benefits Axe, so long as it either remains ranged or Dagger gets turned into a ranged Power Weapon (I mean, considering every skill for Dagger is ranged except the autos……..). We just need a good, solid ranged Power Weapon, every other weapon is more Condition-based or is flat out melee.

How’s about Axe 1 be reworked to where you throw the Axe instead of it slicing and dicing? And for Axe 2, I honestly don’t know cuz I do love this skill but maybe make it unblockable? You got me there to be honest, I’ll put my brain to work for a bit and come back with a better response.

how about just swapping axe and dagger for functionality? i’d much rather swing an axe than a dagger. make ghastly claws a melee whirl or something.

The general consensus seems to be: don’t make Axe melee and don’t make Dagger ranged. I can see where the OP is coming from, and I honestly don’t want to change how they’re used at all, though personally Dagger being ranged would make far more sense to me considering its only melee ‘skill’ is its autos.