Guild Wars 2

Hey guys, i decided to make this thread after seeing a couple of power builds. Ive played necro since around release so ive tried quite a few methods but ever since the last feature pack i figured out what i believe Anets ideal power necro is.

The current meta i believe is 6/2/0/0/6 with zerker stats which I believe is way too squishy, especially against thieves.

I dont think necromancers should be squishy, I don’t believe the class is meant to work that way at all . Other classes except guardian can get away with it because they have a number of ways to escape. All it takes to be dominated is someone who is good at hit and run/block. I learned this the hard way.

I believe there is a point of diminishing return when it comes to damage, and i dont mean hard and soft caps on power, but a damage-survivability ratio that is effective.

Before the last feature pack, grouch explained that the necro is the class that weakens its opponents while gaining hp, essentially wearing your opponents down. Then look at the new traits and changes we got, specifically spec armour changes and unholy sanctuary. Those changes alone pretty much raised the necro’s level well over 9000.

The minor trait before unholy sanctuary raises power based on toughness so you can stack both and still get high enough power without investing in power primary stats so captain or knights.

Then there is the spec armour change, i made a post on this a while back, with this change, toss in rune of the forge, and you can now gain permanent protection. If you really look at the latest traits and all the traits in general and how they are placed:

buffing ds (tank skill) raises damage (ferocity), which gives you protection (last grasp)

buffing toughness trait also gives you, damage from grand minor as well as increases protection duration.

Buffing power gives you healing power and the last grandmaster heals you

It is very clear the ideal necro (solo) is a necro that can take several punches while dishing it out.

Here is what im talking about in a nutshell.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQRBHhhG1IHNt22YjtNs3mAZokeBigtNyAoAoMKCCA-TVCFwAl0BsU5HgTCggnAANVCyodgvSQm7PoSdHA-w

Do i have as much power as the meta build does? no, but will i notice the 200 power or so difference? not really. For comparison, the meta has less than 2000 armour, less than 20k hp with 2300 power or so and less than 40% crit with no food.

Think I’m gonna try something like this today! I don’t have the funds or resources to make it spot on (due to the ongoing crafting of Frostfang), but I should be able to get somewhat close. Looks interesting!

Well the entire point of the meta is to be overpowering (and thus squishy). Personally I use 0/4/0/4/6 because I found it more survivable and a better balance between being selfish (able to trait warhorn for 100% speed uptime) and helping the raid (still able to trait wells and bomb).

But that does look good for roaming, I got to try that sometime. The only thing I dont see the point of is the runes. If you use for example pack runes, you are a huge boon to a roaming party and yourself.

Dawdler.8521:

Well the entire point of the meta is to be overpowering (and thus squishy). Personally I use 0/4/0/4/6 because I found it more survivable and a better balance between being selfish (able to trait warhorn for 100% speed uptime) and helping the raid (still able to trait wells and bomb).

But that does look good for roaming, I got to try that sometime. The only thing I dont see the point of is the runes. If you use for example pack runes, you are a huge boon to a roaming party and yourself.

Sure that makes sense, but i built this assuming im being targeted by multiple people. In pvp, this build is a miracle, of course no mixed stats so i use zerker, but yet people think im hp or toughness stacking. Its worth mentioning that in this build the rune alone gives like 3/4 of all the guardians protection sources combined.

It looks good for roaming and multi-person skirmishes. I know that in my guild, I cry a little whenever we run into a little group, as the first thing they always say is, “Focus the necro!” Also, from my experience, the opposing groups do the same. I love being able to survive long enough for my team to pick them apart, although we necros are usually lucky if we live through those encounters to the end. I just want a good roaming build for Frostfang, and this looks extremely promising!

I think I want to try this build out, I have trouble finding a necro set up I like even when heavily customizing to my playstyle…

I do have a question though, can you show me the perma protection calculation, I’m not quite seeing it…13 protection on a 40s cd and another 15ish seconds on a 60s cd when you are below 50% hp.

Is the burning (1 per 60s at 50% hp) worth giving up for say Earth runes to remove the 50% hp limit on the protection (less protection up time from rune effect but increased protect duration all around)?

Just tried this out somewhat in wvw. My gear doesn’t match, but the traitline itself is solid! One thing i have found out, is that it is a COMPLETELY different method of life force management than what I’m used to, but it definitely has a great synergy to it. More practice, proper gear, and this will become my new build.

US is dog kitten. Your utilities suck besides SA, not very useful in a teamfight, you should swap that offhand dagger to go with axe and use warhorn with dagger. Seems like a dueling build but you won’t be able to beat a decent 6/2/0/0/6 necro or or even. 4/4/0/0/6.

I guess I’m having trouble figuring out what role this build is supposed to fill, no area denial, lacking dps, no group support(not like we can trait for that anyway).

Sorry for the criticism. But it is what it is.

I think the build overall is pretty good, but I need to know what kind of damage it does.

The stats look good, but on 6/2/0/0/6, close to death and DP is what makes do some really nice damage. Without at least on of those, I think it won’t do enough damage to successfully put enough pressure on the target for him to drop.

Holl.3109:

I think the build overall is pretty good, but I need to know what kind of damage it does.

The stats look good, but on 6/2/0/0/6, close to death and DP is what makes do some really nice damage. Without at least on of those, I think it won’t do enough damage to successfully put enough pressure on the target for him to drop.

It wont, and us is useless without any healing power. he’s attempting to make up for lack of dps with sigils, but the other builds use those sigils too, because he needs the offense he can’t use energy sigils and he’s got no vigor so just count the dodges watch for SA and its dead. He goes a little more into curse for crit chance but loses out on 100% crit chance in ds and loses out on ferocity as well as life force, missing that chill of death spike damage removal as well as the the huge dps increase from close to death.

Like I said it looks like a dueling build but I can’t see why it’s supposed to be dueling against.

Being tanky is ok, but I too have doubts about a power necro spec being that tanky while sacrificing power and raw damage boosting traits. I think the spec can probably work decent for solo roaming. But you likely don’t pump out enough dps to help out any large scale or GvG situations.

Remember in the GWEN WvW meta, necros are useful for their high raw spike aoe damage and boon stripping. You lose that high spike damage, you are simply not as useful as what you’re wanted for.

Snow.2048:

I think I want to try this build out, I have trouble finding a necro set up I like even when heavily customizing to my playstyle…

I do have a question though, can you show me the perma protection calculation, I’m not quite seeing it…13 protection on a 40s cd and another 15ish seconds on a 60s cd when you are below 50% hp.

Is the burning (1 per 60s at 50% hp) worth giving up for say Earth runes to remove the 50% hp limit on the protection (less protection up time from rune effect but increased protect duration all around)?

Good questions. The protection calculation is a little complicated so there are a few things you should keep in mind:

-3 sources of protection, Spectral armour, last grasp and rune of the forge.

- Spectral mastery affects both last grasp and active spetral armour skill, dropping the cooldown from 50 to 40 seconds.

-The near perma protection is based on a real battle scenario not a guaranteed calculation.

So at the start of a fight, you pop spec armour that is 13 seconds, in that 13 seconds you lose 50% hp (likely scenario in hard fights) last grasp kicks in for another 13 seconds as well as rune for 15 seconds.

Now from the time you popped spec armour 41 seconds have passed so spec armour is ready again, so you use it again for another 13 seconds. By now you have healed up and in that 13 seconds you have been hit below 50% hp. Since the last activation of last grasp 13 (from last grasp) +13 (from 2nd spec armour) + 15 seconds (rune) have passed which is 41 seconds so last grasp is out of cooldown so it activates for another 13 seconds. Now you have 54 seconds of protection.

At this point there is a problem, the rune has a 60 second cooldown so there is a 6 second gap, which is why my version is near permanent not permanent but you easily fix that with spec wall instead of grasp, which still works in WvW since you gain a lot of life force from people dying all over the place. 6 seconds pass rune is out of cd and now you have 15 seconds.

Finally since the last activation of spec armour, 13 (from second spec armour) + 13 (from second last grasp) + 15 ( second rune) + 6 (from the gap) have passed. A 3rd spec armour should pop again while in the middle of the second rune activation. And the cycle repeats.

About the earth rune im not too sure. You only gain a 2 second increase from your combined spectral sources the protection from rune is about 7 seconds which has a low chance of activating compared to a guaranteed 15 seconds that can cycle. However that magnetic aura is not bad, because of unholy sanctuary it can be pretty useful for bursting and/or retreating.

gavyne.6847:

Being tanky is ok, but I too have doubts about a power necro spec being that tanky while sacrificing power and raw damage boosting traits. I think the spec can probably work decent for solo roaming. But you likely don’t pump out enough dps to help out any large scale or GvG situations.

Remember in the GWEN WvW meta, necros are useful for their high raw spike aoe damage and boon stripping. You lose that high spike damage, you are simply not as useful as what you’re wanted for.

Here is the thing, if you come at my thief with a squishy build like the meta, you will die. I will evade majority of your skills. I will out kite, I will hit and run, you will miss and i will cleanse.

The life blast the meta depends on so much will not be able to hit, the staff that was shoveled into a power meta even though it is a condi weapon will be evaded. I say this from my experience especially in pvp.

The reason for this is because the meta damage/survivaibilty ratio is badly unbalanced. All the damage in the game wont help if you can’t hit or even see your target or if you are being focused.

Here is a simple scenario. You are strolling in WvW with your friends and all of a sudden a thief appears from no where and bursts you. You have less than 2000 armour you will for sure lose well below 50%, hp, so what if there is a second person? say an ele with stab.

You are about to be focused, fear wont help you, thief has gone invisible preparing for a 10k backstab and ele is about to smack you with lightning. If you are lucky and you manage to heal, you would have lost 25% more hp even with ds.

NeXeD.3042:

US is dog kitten. Your utilities suck besides SA, not very useful in a teamfight, you should swap that offhand dagger to go with axe and use warhorn with dagger. Seems like a dueling build but you won’t be able to beat a decent 6/2/0/0/6 necro or or even. 4/4/0/0/6.

I guess I’m having trouble figuring out what role this build is supposed to fill, no area denial, lacking dps, no group support(not like we can trait for that anyway).

Sorry for the criticism. But it is what it is.

Criticism is welcome. Aside from spec armour the utilities and weapons are flexible, i was more focused on the stats and protection. If i want more damage to really damage assist, i can switch the grasp to blood is power which gives almost 2500 power at 50% crit (70 with trait).

Area denial for just over a second is really pointless considering the damage staff does. The fear only serves as an interruption of a particular skill, like heals. It makes more sense to interrupt with spec grasp which gives 22% life force and closes the range for your much better damage skills. Just use ds if you are worried about area defence.

When i do all my builds, the main question, is how much damage do i really need? Being able to kill in 10 seconds sounds nice but theres endure pain, stealth, all those blocks and invulns out there where people take no damage. I have none of that, no mobility so it really makes no sense being a glass tower.

It is especially obvious to me when i come up against other power necros, all my protection and ds negates most of the benefits of their damage.

You get 100% crit with life blast, ok, thats nice but meanwhile you are exaughsting ds while other classes are blocking while attacking or in stealth waiting for you to get out of it

Ragion.2831:

NeXeD.3042:

US is dog kitten. Your utilities suck besides SA, not very useful in a teamfight, you should swap that offhand dagger to go with axe and use warhorn with dagger. Seems like a dueling build but you won’t be able to beat a decent 6/2/0/0/6 necro or or even. 4/4/0/0/6.

I guess I’m having trouble figuring out what role this build is supposed to fill, no area denial, lacking dps, no group support(not like we can trait for that anyway).

Sorry for the criticism. But it is what it is.

Criticism is welcome. Aside from spec armour the utilities and weapons are flexible. If i want more damage to really damage assist, i can switch the grasp to blood is power which gives almost 2500 power at 50% crit (70 with trait).

Area denial for just over a second is really pointless considering the damage staff does. The fear only serves as an interruption of a particular skill, like heals. It makes more sense to interrupt with spec grasp which gives 22% life force and closes the range for your much better damage skills. Just use ds if you are worried about area defence.

Grasp is buggy and the only reason its giving you lf is because you sacrificed ctd and dp. Use warhorn and ds 3 for interupts, I tried to make it work for a while after holl but he used it to get people in his wells, ds is not an area defense and I said denial not defense….. I wasn’t even talking about staff WvW gwen meta is wells necro. That said staff isn’t a condi weapon it’s basically another utility bar.

I really have no clue what exactly you are trying to combat here…. as for the theif engaging disengaging and reengaging there is literally nothing you can do about that against a good theif…. You can’t win a fight like that by trying to be tanky and out sustain him, best bet is to try and kill him in 2-3 seconds which is very possible if played right and it’s not a dire perplexity theif.

It seems like you are trying to reinvent our class as though no one has tried a build like this…. I know I have and I keep going back to my normal builds death magic just sucks currently. US is weak, rp isn’t very useful without terror and even on the builds it’s most useful people usually take greater marks Lately. Having the extra toughness is nice and all but if you couldn’t hit the target without toughness what makes you think you’ll hit them now?

What food do you run with this?

NeXeD.3042:

Ragion.2831:

NeXeD.3042:

US is dog kitten. Your utilities suck besides SA, not very useful in a teamfight, you should swap that offhand dagger to go with axe and use warhorn with dagger. Seems like a dueling build but you won’t be able to beat a decent 6/2/0/0/6 necro or or even. 4/4/0/0/6.

I guess I’m having trouble figuring out what role this build is supposed to fill, no area denial, lacking dps, no group support(not like we can trait for that anyway).

Sorry for the criticism. But it is what it is.

Criticism is welcome. Aside from spec armour the utilities and weapons are flexible. If i want more damage to really damage assist, i can switch the grasp to blood is power which gives almost 2500 power at 50% crit (70 with trait).

Area denial for just over a second is really pointless considering the damage staff does. The fear only serves as an interruption of a particular skill, like heals. It makes more sense to interrupt with spec grasp which gives 22% life force and closes the range for your much better damage skills. Just use ds if you are worried about area defence.

Grasp is buggy and the only reason its giving you lf is because you sacrificed ctd and dp. Use warhorn and ds 3 for interupts, I tried to make it work for a while after holl but he used it to get people in his wells, ds is not an area defense and I said denial not defense….. I wasn’t even talking about staff WvW gwen meta is wells necro. That said staff isn’t a condi weapon it’s basically another utility bar.

I really have no clue what exactly you are trying to combat here…. as for the theif engaging disengaging and reengaging there is literally nothing you can do about that against a good theif…. You can’t win a fight like that by trying to be tanky and out sustain him, best bet is to try and kill him in 2-3 seconds which is very possible if played right and it’s not a dire perplexity theif.

It seems like you are trying to reinvent our class as though no one has tried a build like this…. I know I have and I keep going back to my normal builds death magic just sucks currently. US is weak, rp isn’t very useful without terror and even on the builds it’s most useful people usually take greater marks Lately. Having the extra toughness is nice and all but if you couldn’t hit the target without toughness what makes you think you’ll hit them now?

I updated my last reply.

Re invent the class? this is what the class is, mitigating damage while dealing damage. I have used this build for months and this build only existed as of the last feature pack and there are still a lot of glass power necros roaming around.

For me, a duel and a gank is the same thing, a gank is only several duels happening at the same time.

What im trying to do is very simple, taking damage from multiple sources while dealing damage to one person.

The toughness allows you to inflict chip damage for longer periods on evasive classes. And Death magic is very far from bad. You can start a fear chain with reapers protection on thieves and mesmers for example and we both know fear chains can kill those classes. There is shrouded removal, which is actually really useful, for breaking fears especially. Then theres my favourite, unholy sanctuary, this doesnt even need an explanation.

Sure you can burst a thief in 3 seconds but thief might as well be afk because that is not possible against a skilled and properly built thief.

zaragoz.6351:

What food do you run with this?

Stuff for extra power or ferocity. You already have permanent fury with death shroud flashing for 70% crit, you dont need any more.

Decided to post the build with food.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQRBHhhG1IHNV32YjtNs3mAZokeBigtNyAoAoMKCCA-TFCFwALV+B4kAca/BBPBAaqEwXJYG9DqU3hUARs0C-w

With blood is power active thats 2700 power with 50% (or 70) crit chance with almost 200% crit damage and 2600 armour (which hits the hard cap of 3000 while channeling). Everything with permanent protection, its insane, i really dont understand how people use the meta.

Ragion.2831:

Here is the thing, if you come at my thief with a squishy build like the meta, you will die. I will evade majority of your skills. I will out kite, I will hit and run, you will miss and i will cleanse.

That just sounds like you’re better on your thief than your necro.
If played right, even the squishy power meta build (which isn’t at all as fragile as you make it out to be) has a clear 1v1 advantage against any thief.

Ragion.2831:

-The near perma protection is based on a real battle scenario not a guaranteed calculation.

In real battle scenarios people strip boons.

Ragion.2831:

Then look at the new traits and changes we got, specifically spec armour changes and unholy sanctuary. Those changes alone pretty much raised the necro’s level well over 9000.

Are we playing the same game?

Ragion.2831:

Do i have as much power as the meta build does? no, but will i notice the 200 power or so difference? not really. For comparison, the meta has less than 2000 armour, less than 20k hp with 2300 power or so and less than 40% crit with no food.

Judging by your explanations about your stats I would assume you have Signet of Spite just for the passive bonus? I’m sure you know that signets don’t work in Death Shroud, so that’s less power half the time, also you have less ferocity and no 100% crit chance in DS. (not sure how you’re getting less then 40%with full berserker..?)
So, does one notice a difference in damage? Absolutely.

In general you have some decent ideas, and I appreciate that you’re trying a different approach. However, your rant about the current meta and your build having better synergy is in part unfounded.
For example:
If you want defense you need utility, not just a huge amount of armor (sidenote: for necros vitality>toughness). Yes, more stats help, but face tanking with a lot of armor or protection is far less effective than if you’d just take another defensive utility instead of Signet of Spite.
Also, your Death Magic traitline… Dark Armor and Reaper’s Protection. I get that you have to settle for poor traits in that line when you are not using a staff. But why not at least take Shrouded Removal and maybe Ritual of Protection with a well instead of the signet? I don’t know.. the whole line looks like a waste of points to me. Yeah, more toughness and boon duration stack with your rune and whatever, but it just seems like you’re very much overrating Unholy Sanctuary and are glad about scoring some power on the way there.

Anyway, perhaps you could enlighten us with a gameplay video or something? Or maybe a duel, in case you’re on EU? I’ll even fight your thief with the meta power build.

Ragion.2831:

NeXeD.3042:

Ragion.2831:

NeXeD.3042:

US is dog kitten. Your utilities suck besides SA, not very useful in a teamfight, you should swap that offhand dagger to go with axe and use warhorn with dagger. Seems like a dueling build but you won’t be able to beat a decent 6/2/0/0/6 necro or or even. 4/4/0/0/6.

I guess I’m having trouble figuring out what role this build is supposed to fill, no area denial, lacking dps, no group support(not like we can trait for that anyway).

Sorry for the criticism. But it is what it is.

Criticism is welcome. Aside from spec armour the utilities and weapons are flexible. If i want more damage to really damage assist, i can switch the grasp to blood is power which gives almost 2500 power at 50% crit (70 with trait).

Area denial for just over a second is really pointless considering the damage staff does. The fear only serves as an interruption of a particular skill, like heals. It makes more sense to interrupt with spec grasp which gives 22% life force and closes the range for your much better damage skills. Just use ds if you are worried about area defence.

Grasp is buggy and the only reason its giving you lf is because you sacrificed ctd and dp. Use warhorn and ds 3 for interupts, I tried to make it work for a while after holl but he used it to get people in his wells, ds is not an area defense and I said denial not defense….. I wasn’t even talking about staff WvW gwen meta is wells necro. That said staff isn’t a condi weapon it’s basically another utility bar.

I really have no clue what exactly you are trying to combat here…. as for the theif engaging disengaging and reengaging there is literally nothing you can do about that against a good theif…. You can’t win a fight like that by trying to be tanky and out sustain him, best bet is to try and kill him in 2-3 seconds which is very possible if played right and it’s not a dire perplexity theif.

It seems like you are trying to reinvent our class as though no one has tried a build like this…. I know I have and I keep going back to my normal builds death magic just sucks currently. US is weak, rp isn’t very useful without terror and even on the builds it’s most useful people usually take greater marks Lately. Having the extra toughness is nice and all but if you couldn’t hit the target without toughness what makes you think you’ll hit them now?

I updated my last reply.

Re invent the class? this is what the class is, mitigating damage while dealing damage. I have used this build for months and this build only existed as of the last feature pack and there are still a lot of glass power necros roaming around.

For me, a duel and a gank is the same thing, a gank is only several duels happening at the same time.

What im trying to do is very simple, taking damage from multiple sources while dealing damage to one person.

The toughness allows you to inflict chip damage for longer periods on evasive classes. And Death magic is very far from bad. You can start a fear chain with reapers protection on thieves and mesmers for example and we both know fear chains can kill those classes. There is shrouded removal, which is actually really useful, for breaking fears especially. Then theres my favourite, unholy sanctuary, this doesnt even need an explanation.

Sure you can burst a thief in 3 seconds but thief might as well be afk because that is not possible against a skilled and properly built thief.

If you are on NA I can prove to you the death magic and us is crap. I can also prove to you I can burst down a theif. If your on EU I’ll let flow and holl handle it.

flow.6043:

Ragion.2831:

Here is the thing, if you come at my thief with a squishy build like the meta, you will die. I will evade majority of your skills. I will out kite, I will hit and run, you will miss and i will cleanse.

That just sounds like you’re better on your thief than your necro.
If played right, even the squishy power meta build (which isn’t at all as fragile as you make it out to be) has a clear 1v1 advantage against any thief.

Ragion.2831:

-The near perma protection is based on a real battle scenario not a guaranteed calculation.

In real battle scenarios people strip boons.

Ragion.2831:

Then look at the new traits and changes we got, specifically spec armour changes and unholy sanctuary. Those changes alone pretty much raised the necro’s level well over 9000.

Are we playing the same game?

Ragion.2831:

Do i have as much power as the meta build does? no, but will i notice the 200 power or so difference? not really. For comparison, the meta has less than 2000 armour, less than 20k hp with 2300 power or so and less than 40% crit with no food.

Judging by your explanations about your stats I would assume you have Signet of Spite just for the passive bonus? I’m sure you know that signets don’t work in Death Shroud, so that’s less power half the time, also you have less ferocity and no 100% crit chance in DS. (not sure how you’re getting less then 40%with full berserker..?)
So, does one notice a difference in damage? Absolutely.

In general you have some decent ideas, and I appreciate that you’re trying a different approach. However, your rant about the current meta and your build having better synergy is in part unfounded.
For example:
If you want defense you need utility, not just a huge amount of armor (sidenote: for necros vitality>toughness). Yes, more stats help, but face tanking with a lot of armor or protection is far less effective than if you’d just take another defensive utility instead of Signet of Spite.
Also, your Death Magic traitline… Dark Armor and Reaper’s Protection. I get that you have to settle for poor traits in that line when you are not using a staff. But why not at least take Shrouded Removal and maybe Ritual of Protection with a well instead of the signet? I don’t know.. the whole line looks like a waste of points to me. Yeah, more toughness and boon duration stack with your rune and whatever, but it just seems like you’re very much overrating Unholy Sanctuary and are glad about scoring some power on the way there.

Anyway, perhaps you could enlighten us with a gameplay video or something? Or maybe a duel, in case you’re on EU? I’ll even fight your thief with the meta power build.

Yes i stopped playing necro as much the past 4 months or so, so yes i am better on thief than necro.

For simplicity sake the protection is only based on you taking direct damage, because you can equally say in a real scenario you also gain protection from allies. the entire point is the possibility to gain very high protection uptime compared to other builds.

I personally dont use reapers protection but it is pretty useful. I prefer shoruded removal.

Personally i dont use wells, its too easy to avoid (for me at least). Like i mentioned earlier aside from spec armour the other 2 utilities are flexible as well as off hand weapons because at the end of the day it is really situational. I just personally would use power boosts in a WvW environment.

In pvp i use the same trait point set up but with zerker stats, the utilities spec armour, spec grasp and spec walk, and the trait shrouded removal.

Finally like i mentioned earlier, 100% crit in ds is nice, i would use it but the trade off isnt worth it for my playstyle. I tend to death flash for fury to use channel skills which do more damage than life blast but I cant do that while low on health without unholy sanctuary.

US has saved me quite a few times, soemmtimes im low on health, i try to heal but it gets interrupted, i quickly go into ds try and get to a spot i dont take direct damge remove shroud then heal again. A lot of times that second attempt fails, and where im supposed to die, US kicks in and then i have a 3rd shot at healing, which is often successful. This is PvP

In WvW it reall y depends on your playstyle, i prefer US becaue i can take more risk and i can also force others to over commit and burst while low on health, US triggers and the first reaction will likely be a surprised one.

I’m always up for duels

I have found that in a lot of cases, non-meta builds (whether via traits or utilities) can throw an enemy off balance. If I run into a necro in wvw, I can almost be certain it’s some sort of power build that normally I can defeat using my hybrid build (talking roaming and smaller skirmishes here). My build is more condi based with a lot of corruption 2/6/0/0/6. I can’t, however, get axe to synergize with it, be it due to my playstyle or general infamiliarity with the weapon. I miss the 900 range that scepter gives me. If axe was changed to have a 900 range, I would be one happy necro.

That said, this build, regardless of the less-than-optimal damage can soak a lot of damage and still keep the pressure on the opponent. In terms of powermancers and medi guards and even most d/d eles, once they blow their burst, they’re vulnerable. Sometimes I completely avoid that burst, sometimes I don’t. I am nowhere near the skill level of Holl and his amazing juking skills (LOVE the videos!), so I rely on dodges, toughness, and ds to carry me. I will tweak this build a bit more to see how it goes with my playstyle, but I definitely wouldn’t be so quick to criticize simply because it’s not meta. I completely understand the amount of damage the meta can cause and applaud those who are good with it! I just don’t like running builds that everyone knows how to counter.

Holl.3109:

I’m always up for duels

Damage, well it would take some time to do a video but you are welcome to try the build, if you want a damage comparison, it will be pretty close to zerker because the stats arent too far off.

As for duels, i havent used necro the past few months very much after discovering thief. It would take a couple days of only playing necro to be really fluent with the class again. Its so bad in pvp especially that i sometimes now have to look at my skill bar.

If i were to duel it would be with thief.

Alright, see you on your thief

Ragion.2831:

Holl.3109:

I’m always up for duels

Damage, well it would take some time to do a video but you are welcome to try the build, if you want a damage comparison, it will be pretty close to zerker because the stats arent too far off.

As for duels, i havent used necro the past few months very much after discovering thief. It would take a couple days of only playing necro to be really fluent with the class again. Its so bad in pvp especially that i sometimes now have to look at my skill bar.

If i were to duel it would be with thief.

I think you should get reacquainted with necro before attempting to “discuss” pvp builds with experienced pvp necromancers rather than just dismiss what we are saying to you =(

The damage of your build will not be anywhere near close to what the “sort of meta” build I use pumps out.

NeXeD, You play spectral right? 4/4/0/0/6?

Holl.3109:

NeXeD, You play spectral right? 4/4/0/0/6?

I play both 6/2/0/0/6 and the 4/4/0/0/6 depending on what the other comp is. I change my build and utils slightly while staying power necro in an attempt to counter comp, if I don’t think I’m going to be able to I’ll switch to my dd ele.

NeXeD.3042:

Ragion.2831:

Holl.3109:

I’m always up for duels

Damage, well it would take some time to do a video but you are welcome to try the build, if you want a damage comparison, it will be pretty close to zerker because the stats arent too far off.

As for duels, i havent used necro the past few months very much after discovering thief. It would take a couple days of only playing necro to be really fluent with the class again. Its so bad in pvp especially that i sometimes now have to look at my skill bar.

If i were to duel it would be with thief.

I think you should get reacquainted with necro before attempting to “discuss” pvp builds with experienced pvp necromancers rather than just dismiss what we are saying to you =(

The damage of your build will not be anywhere near close to what the “sort of meta” build I use pumps out.

reacquainted with necro? ive played nothing but necro for 2 years, i got 60 of 80 pvp ranks with that class, played quite a lot of it after the last feature pack. I wanted something new then switched to thief fairly recently. The way people play hasn’t changed, the only thing is ive rcently lost some fluidity with my skills but the build’s effectiveness is still the same.

Look if your pure glass necro works for you, well by all means have fun with it. This build is just meant to solve a particular problem with glass towers, dealing with multiple zerkers.

I have tried a variation of this build in sPvP, and I kind of like it. (4/4/0/0/6 with rune of forge, spectral mastery/attune).

With the extra protection, plus longer duration / shorter recharge spectral skills, I find I can both survive better and recharge DS faster; then still do decent damage in DS with close to 100% crit rate. Add Plague as an elite and you can hold a point for quite a while against multiple attackers, and maybe kill one of them before help arrives.
Probably not a “meta” worthy build but a nice change of pace with a fun gameplay to it.

Ragion.2831:

NeXeD.3042:

Ragion.2831:

Holl.3109:

I’m always up for duels

Damage, well it would take some time to do a video but you are welcome to try the build, if you want a damage comparison, it will be pretty close to zerker because the stats arent too far off.

As for duels, i havent used necro the past few months very much after discovering thief. It would take a couple days of only playing necro to be really fluent with the class again. Its so bad in pvp especially that i sometimes now have to look at my skill bar.

If i were to duel it would be with thief.

I think you should get reacquainted with necro before attempting to “discuss” pvp builds with experienced pvp necromancers rather than just dismiss what we are saying to you =(

The damage of your build will not be anywhere near close to what the “sort of meta” build I use pumps out.

reacquainted with necro? ive played nothing but necro for 2 years, i got 60 of 80 pvp ranks with that class, played quite a lot of it after the last feature pack. I wanted something new then switched to thief fairly recently. The way people play hasn’t changed, the only thing is ive rcently lost some fluidity with my skills but the build’s effectiveness is still the same.

Look if your pure glass necro works for you, well by all means have fun with it. This build is just meant to solve a particular problem with glass towers, dealing with multiple zerkers.

Your solution doesn’t solve the problems well enough to be worth it.

Trybil.1567:

I have tried a variation of this build in sPvP, and I kind of like it. (4/4/0/0/6 with rune of forge, spectral mastery/attune).

With the extra protection, plus longer duration / shorter recharge spectral skills, I find I can both survive better and recharge DS faster; then still do decent damage in DS with close to 100% crit rate. Add Plague as an elite and you can hold a point for quite a while against multiple attackers, and maybe kill one of them before help arrives.
Probably not a “meta” worthy build but a nice change of pace with a fun gameplay to it.

Thats not even close to being close to the same build, that one is actually decent since you don’t put any traits into kitten trait lines.

NeXeD.3042:

Trybil.1567:

I have tried a variation of this build in sPvP, and I kind of like it. (4/4/0/0/6 with rune of forge, spectral mastery/attune).

With the extra protection, plus longer duration / shorter recharge spectral skills, I find I can both survive better and recharge DS faster; then still do decent damage in DS with close to 100% crit rate. Add Plague as an elite and you can hold a point for quite a while against multiple attackers, and maybe kill one of them before help arrives.
Probably not a “meta” worthy build but a nice change of pace with a fun gameplay to it.

Thats not even close to being close to the same build, that one is actually decent since you don’t put any traits into kitten trait lines.

The only difference between his build and my pvp version is that he isnt using Unholy sanctuary, shrouded removal and dark armour. He also doesnt have the extra toughness from the DM trait line, if thats the case i am going to take a wild guess and say he is using knights, I use zerker. If he is using knights then he could get away with not going into DM.

The problem is much lower ferocity and power so he would be forced to go into Spite. In this case there is barely a damage difference with our builds, if anything i am probably doing more damage because of my ferocity.

If i’m wrong and he is actually using zerker, i have a hard time believing he is standing still and holding points against multiple people (not counting plague elite)

SO, Trybil which amulet are you using?

your joking right…… I can’t even respond to what you just said….. “oh the only difference is he didn’t go 6 into a trait line that I did” your 6 into that trait line is the only thing that makes your build bad, he also has dp and has chill of death…… 4/4/0/0/6 is a common setup for a spectral necromancer and it’s probably just as tanky as yours while also having a good deal more damage. I should know considering I have been playing that build for a very long time.

No one uses knights…… vitality>toughness. If he is using knights that that’s bad too. But I doubt it.

Here is the build I was talking about.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQNBmQDbkjmabLuxvG+bTgLUQ+mBQkhQJQdbEHPLA-TpBFwAFOIAtPCALeAAM3foaZAAXAAA

Berserker runes. Maybe it isn’t the most tanky, but it is tankier than the meta power 6/2/0/0/6 build I used to run. I like all the synergy going on to boost protection, which I took to be one of the features being promoted by the OP. And I can’t just stand on point to hold it, I need to actively juke around using spectral walk and flesh wurm

I have a guardian whose build I get up to 3300 armor, and at that level you start to be able to notice a difference, e.g. I can face tank Savnir. But a couple hundred armor isn’t really that noticeable, and necros effectively get a vitality multiplier via LF so I agree vitality > toughness.

I make no claim to be a pro, I just wanted to share some thoughts that have made playing a necro more enjoyable for me.

NeXeD.3042:

your joking right…… I can’t even respond to what you just said….. “oh the only difference is he didn’t go 6 into a trait line that I did” your 6 into that trait line is the only thing that makes your build bad, he also has dp and has chill of death…… 4/4/0/0/6 is a common setup for a spectral necromancer and it’s probably just as tanky as yours while also having a good deal more damage. I should know considering I have been playing that build for a very long time.

No one uses knights…… vitality>toughness. If he is using knights that that’s bad too. But I doubt it.

I dont understand how you can say someone who has 30% less protection duration than i do (from not going into DM) is as tanky as i am when he also has less than 2000 armour and i can often get mine to 2600, can condi cleanse better with shrouded removal and last much longer with unholy sanctuary. Sure dp guarantees life blast crits, but they are so irritatingly slow. I dont know how many life blast necros i have to out tank and out kite before they understand this. It is not that difficult to avoid being hit by life blasts if you kite properly.

What do you plan on doing against a good evade thief with life blasts? just say well thieves are op and accept the respawn? Even on necro i just need to switch to d/d drop weakness and protection then auto the life out of your death shroud while kiting and guess what you will miss most of them. Meanwhile you are draining DS and you can’t last long while out of it. When you run out and try to burst, i just need to switch to axe and channel, my DM trait kicks in for higher toughness, my protection will be up and your burst damage will be severely mitigated.

Trybil.1567:

Here is the build I was talking about.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQNBmQDbkjmabLuxvG+bTgLUQ+mBQkhQJQdbEHPLA-TpBFwAFOIAtPCALeAAM3foaZAAXAAA

Berserker runes. Maybe it isn’t the most tanky, but it is tankier than the meta power 6/2/0/0/6 build I used to run. I like all the synergy going on to boost protection, which I took to be one of the features being promoted by the OP. And I can’t just stand on point to hold it, I need to actively juke around using spectral walk and flesh wurm

I have a guardian whose build I get up to 3300 armor, and at that level you start to be able to notice a difference, e.g. I can face tank Savnir. But a couple hundred armor isn’t really that noticeable, and necros effectively get a vitality multiplier via LF so I agree vitality > toughness.

I make no claim to be a pro, I just wanted to share some thoughts that have made playing a necro more enjoyable for me.

I dont know how i feel about this build, I get why the wurm but i found that spec grasp is really useful if you need to quickly gain life force.

No axe, no soulmarks, so your choices here for life force is to do no damage with staff auto, risk standing in high damage range to gain life force from dagger with low armour or use your stun breaks.

Since no shrouded removal or off hand dagger sigil of generousity is necessary but then that means sacrificing fire and air sigil. sigil of strength im not completely sure helps very much without blood is power, you might be better off using sigil of fire.

At the end of the day it depends on how you play it i suppose. Here is mine

Edit: Corrected it.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQRAnd4Yjc00abtNG3webCkhS6FoD22IDgCgyoIIA-TJBFwACeCAM3foaZAAnEAA

Have you actually won a game in ranked against decent opponents? I can’t find you on the current or old leaderboards….. not that it matters that much…

Look your trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, and I think after playing enough ranked games you’ll figure it out.

These are the two builds I have been using lately,

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQRBHRhG2IHN90WdjtNc4mAXog8ACgI/gTg62IMeWA-TZBFwACOIAl2fYxJAoaZAAPBAA

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQRBHRhG2IHN902SjtNc4mAXog+ACgWIqPg6zIMeWA-TZBFwACOIA12fYxJAoaZAAPBAA

I have two more that I have been experimenting with but these are my “go to”

If you are having trouble with surviving against certain classes, builds, situations maybe I can help. When I was fist breaking into pvp I too attempted to go the tankier route and I too thought I was “right” eventually you figure out why the meta builds are what they are. It’s because they fill roles…. yours is attempting to fill a role better suited by eles and engis….. also you keep saying theives… as a power necro you should be like 2 shotting them…. if one comes near me when I have daggers out and he doesn’t have a stunbreak I’m going to kill him in 2 seconds. That being said I’m of the opinion that a good theives, mesmers, and medi guards give power necros some trouble…. but the theif has to play perfectly…. if he screws up I get to melt him.

Make a video of this! I want to see it in action! : )

I too would love to see a video, an unchopped one from ranked pvp, plz no hotjoin chopped to hell.

For WvW, I’m a big fan of the Death Magic trait line… from every minor to the staff traits and Unholy Sanctuary. The added toughness is also nice and synergizes with the last minor trait.

I really don’t understand how ppl can be unhappy with US (unless they’re always low on LF?). It pops me into DS every single time I need it. This allows for very aggressive play, especially in lich form (DS+stability = one of the best escapes). It’s also a solid counter vs gankers who catch you by surprise and try to burst you down. US is simply one of my favorite traits for necromancer.

Anyway, here’s my current version of the Powermancer. It has served me well in large scale fights in T2 and T1.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQNBmODbkjmeabpxmGOcTMMUSnCZQ5GVAQ9VEFJBA-TlCBAB9pRoSVCA4iAklyPLV3hRlgFt/Qe6CY4BAsxRAIAACwNvZ2sNDeuzduzduz5mP3mP3m3sUA6JMC-w

NeXeD.3042:

Have you actually won a game in ranked against decent opponents? I can’t find you on the current or old leaderboards….. not that it matters that much…

Look your trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, and I think after playing enough ranked games you’ll figure it out.

These are the two builds I have been using lately,

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQRBHRhG2IHN90WdjtNc4mAXog8ACgI/gTg62IMeWA-TZBFwACOIAl2fYxJAoaZAAPBAA

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQRBHRhG2IHN902SjtNc4mAXog+ACgWIqPg6zIMeWA-TZBFwACOIA12fYxJAoaZAAPBAA

I have two more that I have been experimenting with but these are my “go to”

If you are having trouble with surviving against certain classes, builds, situations maybe I can help. When I was fist breaking into pvp I too attempted to go the tankier route and I too thought I was “right” eventually you figure out why the meta builds are what they are. It’s because they fill roles…. yours is attempting to fill a role better suited by eles and engis….. also you keep saying theives… as a power necro you should be like 2 shotting them…. if one comes near me when I have daggers out and he doesn’t have a stunbreak I’m going to kill him in 2 seconds. That being said I’m of the opinion that a good theives, mesmers, and medi guards give power necros some trouble…. but the theif has to play perfectly…. if he screws up I get to melt him.

Hey NeXed, I wanted to personally say thanks to that informative post and your links to your builds.

I changed my build which I definitely kitten and I’m surviving and putting out a lot more hurt from your first build.

I noly have WVW exotic gear mostly meh but your build helped strengthen what I was trying to do with the wrong build/traits, thanks again.

NeXeD.3042:

Have you actually won a game in ranked against decent opponents? I can’t find you on the current or old leaderboards….. not that it matters that much…

Look your trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, and I think after playing enough ranked games you’ll figure it out.

These are the two builds I have been using lately,

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQRBHRhG2IHN90WdjtNc4mAXog8ACgI/gTg62IMeWA-TZBFwACOIAl2fYxJAoaZAAPBAA

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQRBHRhG2IHN902SjtNc4mAXog+ACgWIqPg6zIMeWA-TZBFwACOIA12fYxJAoaZAAPBAA

I have two more that I have been experimenting with but these are my “go to”

If you are having trouble with surviving against certain classes, builds, situations maybe I can help. When I was fist breaking into pvp I too attempted to go the tankier route and I too thought I was “right” eventually you figure out why the meta builds are what they are. It’s because they fill roles…. yours is attempting to fill a role better suited by eles and engis….. also you keep saying theives… as a power necro you should be like 2 shotting them…. if one comes near me when I have daggers out and he doesn’t have a stunbreak I’m going to kill him in 2 seconds. That being said I’m of the opinion that a good theives, mesmers, and medi guards give power necros some trouble…. but the theif has to play perfectly…. if he screws up I get to melt him.

If you want to find out my skill level you are welcome to try an official challenge. I dont play for the leaderboards, i am content with spending my time in practice mode playing against other dragons, i go on ranked if im in the mood to handle the long queue times.

The meta is the way it is to fill roles sure but my role is i have no role, i had to build to fill no roles because of lack of communication in pugs. If im glass and im ganked by two people, it means there is a high chance i will die, so basically i will die because i was forced to fill a role i wasn’t built for.

If my teammate is downed and im glass i don’t have enough survivabilty to solo rez, does that mean that i have to wait for someone else who fills the “tank role”? the idea of roles is silly to me, play according to your playstyle, pick a target and focus it. If being a glass tower happens to be something you are good at surviving at then more power to you.

I keep saying thieves because i run a thief, and i rarely, very very rarely meet a necro that gives my thief build trouble. Not a terrormancer, not a minion master, meta power necro doesnt come close. Considering what i do to necros, i cannot build the same type of necro i run into daily.

On the flip side my necro builds are succesful aaginst thieves however things get complicated when there is a thief and another class.

NeXeD, he’s on NA so accept that challenge!
I wanted to duel him but I’m on EU

WvW and spvp are two very different things… I see a lot of discussion about spvp here that doesnt apply very well. Wvw you generally want different things, like enough survivability for all the splash damage and other traits like foot in the grave can become useful, while nuking single targets down becomes less important in the place of doing mass damage to many. Range is also significantly more important, so I would definately say take staff…

This is a good build. I have been using something similar for a long time. Here is my feedback.

(1). Use Superior Rune of the earth instead of Superior Rune of the Forgeman. Forgeman gives you +14 seconds of protection when you hit 50%, and triggers exactly when your spectral armor does. This is duplicative and unessary.

Superior Rune of the Earth gives you 6 seconds of protection every 30 seconds (and gives you a total of +60% protection duration). It looks like less at first, but it triggers off any hit including when you are in Death Shroud or Plague. In the real world, you will get a lot more protection from Earth. You also reflect projectiles when the #6 bonus triggers. When this #6 bonus is up and you are in plague form, you are an undying killing machine.

(2) You should not be roaming in WvW, you are a necromancer. Use plague form.

(3) Your weapon choices are wonky. Use Axe/Dagger and Dagger/Warhorn. Offhand dagger goes better with axe (for the ranged play style).

(4) Drop 2 points in Curses and pick up deathly perception. Your life blasts need to crit or you hit like a wet noodle. I know that you have fury on entering death shroud, but this is not a flashing build.

Also, now that you have Deathly Peception and don’t hit like a wet noodle, you can pickup the energy sigil that all necromancers need.

(5) Since you are not trying to roam on a no mobility class, and you are properly running witha group, drop the curses life force generation traits. You get gobs of life force for doing nothing in WvW. Instead, decide whether you want wells, and take targeted wells if you do. IF you want wells, there is also a trait in death magic that you can take to get protection from wells. If you don’t want wells, take chilling darkness.

Chilling darkness adds chill to your blinds. You have blind on your offhand dagger, and you have plague. You are taking this trait because running through a Zerg in plague form with protection chilling everything just wrecks face. You can also take snowball sigils for extra chill. At melee range, snowball sigil hits 5 times for a decently long chill.

(6) lose Dark Armor. It is a pointless trait. Your only channels are DS4 and Axe 2. Take shrouded removal. Shrouded removal seems to prioritize immobilize, which makes it very useful to you.

I dont think the build you posted is better than the meta one since,the differences is not that much,you could tank a little bit more,but do you want to tank? as in why tanking when you can kill faster and still tank a bit less? I mean necros have already big sustain,and I was never ever got beaten by thief on my necro(in WvW) and NEVER EVER got beaten by thief and ele in a “Surprise 2v2” like you described,winning 2v1 is very rare,you need to use terrain,and count on one of the two mistake,if thats not gonna happen I excpect anyone to lose. getting suprised attack on your thief tho,that is fatal for you more than to a necro,so why not ranting about that?

Holl.3109:

NeXeD, he’s on NA so accept that challenge!
I wanted to duel him but I’m on EU

Don’t worry, I am on NA and EU! I can easily replace him