Guild Wars 2

My biggest issue with WvW roaming with necros is they seem to have no escapes.

If I get immobilized, i have to pop my heal to get out or i get downed very fast.

I seem very vulnerable to conditions and what not

What does everyone run that they find effective and they can still escape. If i get 2 backstab thieves on me I seem to die so fast and I can’t really escape, I can just throw down as many AoEs as i can in hopes of protecting me

So I need some advice, how do you roam with your Necro?

If you go back a few pages I made a long video of me roaming as a Necro. The best advice any of us can give who have been Necro mains since release is once you decide to roam understand that there is no getaway button. Sure you can hide fleshwurm somewhere, or fight near keeps and run in to them quickly to get away. Once combat starts or I begin running 1 or 3 people down, I give it everything.
Once you start to realize this your I am sure you will see how much better you can do. I have won ALOT of my fights by not running when another enemy decides to jump in, I just continue to focus one person till he is down then work on downing the other. The punishment system in this game for dying is so laughable that honestly I will sometimes throw myself into hopeless situations just to see what I can handle. But instead of trying to run away, just fight like the hell. Better then dying with your back to an enemy and it makes me smile every time I manage to kill at least one player in a group of enemies when its just little old me =D

i roam with my necromancer in wvw most of the time and yes, if you’re engaged by the enemy just try your best to kill it. imo, when you’re solo roaming as a necro, learning when to enter or not to enter a fight is pretty much the only tip i could give you.

Necro is the worst roaming class. Can you roam? Sure, but more often then not, you will fail, and fail often.

Kravick.4906:

Necro is the worst roaming class. Can you roam? Sure, but more often then not, you will fail, and fail often.

+1

not because we can’t 1v1, but due to limitations in disengaging when 1vX where you have no chance of winning.

Hehe true, I fail quite often as solo condition Necro these days. As Necro you are the prime target in this game, because of least avoidance against direct damage. Get used to it,

Well i think the main reason is, that the current meta is akittens peak. The focus in WvW seems to be exclusively on CC- and bunkerbuilds, specially for smallscale encounters. Eighter you are ragdolled around in a 1 vs x, or when solo you are fighting 99% bunker rangers, eles and permastealth thieves.

Fighting as the underdog can still be fun and more then often you may surprise your opponent. At least in WvW you are not pigeonholed into pointholding and can try to kite like a champ. Range is your friend! That said, i wish i would follow my own advice more often.

I would argue towards staying in melee range, as you have access to enough CC to hold any class in the game, (thieves with loads of stealth and shadow steps are a different issue that’s less reliable but whatever) burst strong enough to kill more or less anything in the game in 5 seconds, (only invulnerability can hard counter it, SG is your friend for most escapes or stunbreaks) and when that fails, you have high melee damage and naturally very high health, (when including DS) which gives you an advantage in shorter engagements.

Basically you can say sod off to the idea of attrition, we have the right tools to go for the complete opposite kind of fights.

Oh, and also I heavily recommend using foot in the grave. It’s extremely useful during a fight to block CC (and a lot of people seem to instinctively CC when you use life transfer) but the main selling point is to shroud stomp people. Being able to (fairly reliably) stomp people is often the difference between winning and losing, securing a kill, and making 1vX fights even possible.

Roamer classes/builds see necro as free kill because all of them can disengage and reset the fight while you can not.

The only build that can reliably break off from a necro if you build for it is a sword thief with shadow step (withdraw works as well actually). Nothing else can safely disengage, but you do have to build with this in mind.

War Mourner.5168:

The only build that can reliably break off from a necro if you build for it is a sword thief with shadow step (withdraw works as well actually). Nothing else can safely disengage, but you do have to build with this in mind.

GS Ranger, I dare you the necro you are talking about and your ENTIRE freaking zerg to catch me!

you don’t have escapes outside of a few cheesy tricks. necros don’t run, they commit to the gruesome end 9 times out of 10. so choose your fights wisely.

the good news is that necros have an abundance of chill. learn every single chill you have and take as many as possible. you may not be able to run from a fight, but you can make sure that the enemy can’t run either.

War Mourner makes a good point that the necro has some impressive burst potential, which, in my experience, enemies often seem unaware of or unprepared for. one fun little infonugget is that the necro’s dagger autoattack has higher base damage than the thief’s. if you’re ballsy enough to go glass, you will enjoy bursty life blast spam at 900 range. i’m usually more satisfied roaming with some type of power build (whether soldier or zerker) rather than condi.

I don’t, I run in zergs or parties. I have full arrow cart upgrades and 3 tiers in cannon so most times I defend walls when I am solo. I If I am forced to roam (say from one place to another) I will wait till someone on my side is heading in the same direction and join them. Maybe with the upcoming patch I can roam solo, but for now I don’t like large repair bills so I play it safe.

I really consider it an achievement that my only toon with World Completion is a Necro. It was hard, they are not good roamers.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAodWjMah7VaWbMcKApCPPpgbvjegsyMTVAeA-jEyAYMBRyCA9JiJwioxW1KiGrmBTVSEV7RKiWtMA+LA-w

Something like this?

I roam alot on my necro, and pretty much Hybrid, Power, or condi, always above 2.2k armor (So not glassy, but not always tanky). Honestly, the DPS we have is always good, and I can escape and disengage in some cases, but its very rare. In most cases, I found that mesmers are the tough ones to fight, No matter what spec, and while they can’t exactly CC you down, they are mobile enough to just catch you (although if they are running greatsword, they can stop you and will).

If you are playing Necromancer while roaming, You really just have to go all in. Kill or Be killed is the game and anything else has a percentage lower than 4% of happening. I can’t really say which spec damage type I prefer because they all have their ups and downs.

For example, for me I enjoy the play of power, but mesmers who use staff will kitten you almost every instance unless you play flawlessly, while other classes are a trade game (anyone can win). With my version of hybrid (D/D), I can burst some players down real easy, but bunker eles and those who dip in both HP and toughness heavily are an eyesore. Personally, I find condi to be the most successful. While you are slow and dont have much burst or LF generation , in the meta right now its mostly about outlasting, and Terror spec is good against almost every class as you not only interrupt players with fears but punish them with additional high damage.

Overall, realize that because of mobility you are at a disadvantage. Roaming can be done, but do not expect to win every fight, because you will find lots of failure. That said, still never give up and push through. Two things I will suggest is learning to shroud stomp with foot in the grave and trying out spectral grasp. Currently, I pretty much run spectral grasp is every build I do in WvW because its a free 10% LF, chills, and pulls the target. It may be wonky and work horrid sometimes, but it does help.

And for anyone reading this who possibly plays a tanky power necro (above 2.5k armor and 20k HP), I would really like to hear how it is for you to roam.

Sure Cempa I can’t outrun you, but if you try and disengage from a fight, you won’t be able to break. For GS ranger in particular, DS 2 is of note (gets you out of roots without wasting time and can’t be blocked by the gs block skill) and wail of doom which is also unblockable. Other then that, a d/d ele is more difficult to hold.

War Mourner.5168:

The only build that can reliably break off from a necro if you build for it is a sword thief with shadow step (withdraw works as well actually). Nothing else can safely disengage, but you do have to build with this in mind.

I disengage reliably from necros on my dagger/dagger thief. In fact, I can’t remember a single instance of a necro being able to keep me in a fight, ever.

I think the necromancer is one of the best classes for 1vX fights. The key skill is (obviously) epidemic and never underestimate our AoE fear; it’s probably one of the best CCs in the game I’d say.
Not too long ago four enemies were camping the EB JP at the top of the arena. I used my AoE bleeds immediately and used epidemic on a ranger pet. I jumped them with Plague form and kept them all blinded when two of them were downed from the bleeding. A thief tried to stealth ress the ranger but I left Plague Form and used my AoE Fear to interrupt the thief AND down him. Their warrior tried to kill me with vengeance but failed miserably. At this point I had THREE kills (ranger, mesmer and warrior) and I was just about to stomp the thief when another warrior jumps me from nowhere (out of stealth) and CC chains me. I end up getting downed from not having DS ready, I had already used it to keep the other warrior away from me. I did all this without even having to use my heal; that’s how powerful our AoE capabilities are.

As for roaming; I think we’re decent. We can win pretty much any 1v1 fight and we have a decent chance of winning outnumbered because of our awesome AoE capabilities and AoE CC. We can solo cap supply camps without any problems. Heck, I’ve been interrupted by enemy players when taking camps and still end up taking the camp and killing the player.

As for escaping… I don’t think it’s impossible. Just difficult. Since we have zero mobility and lots of CC, we have to use the latter to our advantage when trying to get away. I usually try to use DS2 on random critters for a teleport; it has saved my life a few times… but it usually doesn’t help very much because the projectile is so slow.

Plankie, not sure if serious.

The last cpl. Months i’ve played against roamers from SFR, Deso, Elona, Piken. What you just described, would never happen against the smallscale crowd there.

1 v 3 against a capable Mesmer, Ranger and Warrior i wouldn’t even get a skill off. I sometimes get wtf situations too, when people just drop around me, but that sure as hell is not the rule.

1 v 1 is mostly balanced. You win some, you lose some, how it should be.

Don’t get me wrong, the JP campers were TERRIBLE. None of them had any condition removal, or at least didn’t use any, which is why I killed them so fast… And they all were nice enough to bunch up so I could chase them all in Plague Form. But I’m saying, we have the tools to deal great AoE damage so with some luck you can certainly win 1vX.

We also have the tools to win 1v1 vs pretty much any class/build. Of course a more skilled opponent will win but as a condition necro I feel like I don’t have any direct counters. Overly tanky classes with lots of condition removal are annoying but I still feel like we have the edge. I don’t ever feel like I didn’t stand a chance. But I think we counter a lot of builds. Most melee builds are really easy to beat (lol warriors).

The closest I could ever get to roaming on my necromancer is hugging the cliffs on any map but eternal. Otherwise my guardian does a better job at roaming since she can fight off 1-2 somewhat decent opponents at the same time (though anything that can call itself a bunker will kitten on her day).

Sort of makes me wish Anet had more vertical areas on the wvw maps to give decreased fall damage traits and necromancers a proper place.

The best roaming classes happen to be your 1v1 counters. D/P thieves with shadow arts or S/D thieves with shadow arts. Phantasm mesmers. BM rangers, Engineers.

Zenith.7301:

The best roaming classes happen to be your 1v1 counters. D/P thieves with shadow arts or S/D thieves with shadow arts. Phantasm mesmers. BM rangers, Engineers.

To be fair, these builds pretty much counter everyone 1v1, with Phantasm mesmers being the god of 1v1.

Kravick.4906:

I disengage reliably from necros on my dagger/dagger thief. In fact, I can’t remember a single instance of a necro being able to keep me in a fight, ever.

That’s because next to no one builds for it, you can fit a huge amount of CC on a necro if you choose to, and you can reduce the CD on a great deal of it, but if you don’t, then plenty of builds have more escapes/shorter CD’s then you can counter.

That’s why sword thieves are the only ones that you literally cannot catch, if they choose so, since they have a stun break/condi cleanse/escape on no CD, which a good thief will have ready to use at all times.

War Mourner.5168:

Kravick.4906:

I disengage reliably from necros on my dagger/dagger thief. In fact, I can’t remember a single instance of a necro being able to keep me in a fight, ever.

That’s because next to no one builds for it, you can fit a huge amount of CC on a necro if you choose to, and you can reduce the CD on a great deal of it, but if you don’t, then plenty of builds have more escapes/shorter CD’s then you can counter.

That’s why sword thieves are the only ones that you literally cannot catch, if they choose so, since they have a stun break/condi cleanse/escape on no CD, which a good thief will have ready to use at all times.

Nope. All a D/P needs to escape you is Black Powder. No amount of cc you spec into will change that. He blinds you when he casts it and immediately gets 4 seconds of stealth. From there he can either blast it againt to stack or shadow step away while he’s untargetable and spam hardseeker some more away from you.

They still have to use HS to get stealth out of black powder, that gives you more then enough time to CC them after dropping the blind.

War Mourner.5168:

They still have to use HS to get stealth out of black powder, that gives you more then enough time to CC them after dropping the blind.

His BP is not only a blind field. It blinds YOU as well with a shot. So by the time you use an action to get the blind off he’s had more than enough time to HS through.

War Mourner.5168:

They still have to use HS to get stealth out of black powder, that gives you more then enough time to CC them after dropping the blind.

You’re blind. You’re not getting any CC off on them.

either I’m not in melee range, in which case it’s a single blind that gets cleansed almost immediately unless I’m not attacking, or I use DS fear and weakening shroud will sponge the blind (which will work in melee range as well because instant cast), or if use non DS fear in melee range, and for whatever reason don’t back out of the field, dagger 1 is hitting twice per second, and locusts and well will both be ticking once per second when up, so it’s fairly likely (but not certain) that I won’t have my cc blinded there either. If nothing else, I can golem charge so long as the golem isn’t in the field, as soon as the field drops, and even if they do get the stealth off they’re still CC’d and I can stand ontop of them and hit them/cc them more.

Not saying this is foolproof, it is was it would be OP, but it does work rather well – D/P thieves are the most common foe I see in wvw.

I run a D/F, A/W (or staff) necro and roam quite a bit in soldier gear. I find that if I use wells, I can burst someone down real fast, but if they escape my root or become immune to my burst I’m pretty much screwed. Without wells, I do much better.

Roaming is about 30% solo fights, and yeah when you become outnumbered even by 1 it makes the fight an uphill battle. I have come out of it victorious, but it’s very rare. Unfortunately power necro’s can’t handle more than one person without mobility, stability or immunity. Condi specs have a better chance, but once your fears are used you are a sitting duck.

Other roaming professions have way more tools to handle 1vX fights, and necro’s are at the bottom. The only counter to my engi is a condi fear necro, but I know they are free bags if I’m with anyone else.

Deified.7520:

My biggest issue with WvW roaming with necros is they seem to have no escapes.

If I get immobilized, i have to pop my heal to get out or i get downed very fast.

I seem very vulnerable to conditions and what not

What does everyone run that they find effective and they can still escape. If i get 2 backstab thieves on me I seem to die so fast and I can’t really escape, I can just throw down as many AoEs as i can in hopes of protecting me

So I need some advice, how do you roam with your Necro?

Normally if i get immobilized, unless i need to heal i try and dark path to my target as it throws them off, by the time they realize where you are the immobilize has worn off.

Are you running Consume Conditions for your heal? It’s pretty much mandatory for WvW. If you find it’s still lacking use a staff and DS to transfer/absorb the conditions.

Anyone with 2 backstab thieves on them will die fast if they execute everything without a hitch. Dropping your wells and Life transfer will normally make them back off.

War Mourner.5168:

either I’m not in melee range, in which case it’s a single blind that gets cleansed almost immediately unless I’m not attacking, or I use DS fear and weakening shroud will sponge the blind (which will work in melee range as well because instant cast), or if use non DS fear in melee range, and for whatever reason don’t back out of the field, dagger 1 is hitting twice per second, and locusts and well will both be ticking once per second when up, so it’s fairly likely (but not certain) that I won’t have my cc blinded there either. If nothing else, I can golem charge so long as the golem isn’t in the field, as soon as the field drops, and even if they do get the stealth off they’re still CC’d and I can stand ontop of them and hit them/cc them more.

Not saying this is foolproof, it is was it would be OP, but it does work rather well – D/P thieves are the most common foe I see in wvw.

The time it takes you to autoattack to take that blind off, let alone enter DS, is more then enough for them to blast on the field. You’re fighting bad thieves that are stalling the blast.

What’s more, most good D/P thieves run S/D offset, so normally they put down an infiltrator strike circle for shadow return prior to switching to their dagger main when engaging so they can cc break at will.

As I said before, no one can hold a well played sword thief, sword 2 is too strong for that.

What blast are you talking about? Cluster bomb is the thief’s only blast; but between activating black powder and getting off a HS, you have almost one and a half seconds to react, enough time – if you’re quick on it.

According to the leaked patchnotes Shadow Return will no longer be a stun breaker.

I believe what you (War Mourner) are describing is a mediocre thief. But a good one will have the option to get away from you.

However, has anyone of you ever heard the story of the really good thief who had to run away from the necromancer because he couldn’t beat him?
Nope, you have not… because, while a thief has the option to run away, it still always ends in a fight to the death. The good thief will return and try to finish the job if he was forced to keep his distance earlier.

I’m not saying that thieves are stronger than necros, in fact I believe it’s one of the most balanced and exciting 1v1 match-ups in the game. But the scenario that a thief escapes and never comes back to finish the fight is just a super rare occasion.

flow.6043:

However, has anyone of you ever heard the story of the really good thief who had to run away from the necromancer because he couldn’t beat him?

I actually took the time to wrack my brain and think back…. I actually can’t think of a single time where a really good thief just let it go. In fact, I consider most thieves pathologically unable to let it go.

And every one of those fights ended with: Me eventually waypointing with no DS and running for my life, him getting backup, or me getting backup, and in the rare cases where one of us played it wrong, one of us dying (normally me).

Zenith.7301:

The best roaming classes happen to be your 1v1 counters. D/P thieves with shadow arts or S/D thieves with shadow arts. Phantasm mesmers. BM rangers, Engineers.

you can usually keel errything else though so it’s not that bad.

jalmari.3906:

Zenith.7301:

The best roaming classes happen to be your 1v1 counters. D/P thieves with shadow arts or S/D thieves with shadow arts. Phantasm mesmers. BM rangers, Engineers.

you can usually keel errything else though so it’s not that bad.

What’s the point of everything else when it’s these classes that you see roaming the most?

I don’t enjoy roaming with my Necro all that much because all too often a large group is just around the corner ready to stomp anything that moves.

If I am roaming I will use the fleshwurm and have spectral walk on my utility bar. I hate giving up any extra damage but, these two skill have saved me enough times to be my go to options.

I spend most of my time in the home BL map and have mastered using the cliffs as my other escape option.

Like most people have previously stated; as a Necro you pretty much have to commit to the fight unless you are always exercising caution. I tend to do this. I will avoid engaging in a fight I do not feel I can win and will find any means to get out of a hot spot unless I know back up is on the way or my efforts have a worthwhile purpose.

One thing I find with my Necro more than the other classes I play is there is a point in almost every fight where I wish I had one or more other utilities on my bar than what I have. If I have wells, I often miss spectral grasp, if I have epidemic, or BoP, or whatever, I tend to wish I had the wells and so on.

I find Necro utilities are designed more for group play than solo or small scale combat which is also why the Necro has become a staple in organized groups. Roaming is so much easier to do on other classes but the satisfaction of winning fights on my Necro is incomparable.

Plankie.6287:

Not too long ago four enemies were camping the EB JP at the top of the arena.

Those people are the scum of the earth. Balthazar bless you for kittening them up some.

Roaming on a Necro is possible, but you have to accept that you’re probably going to die a lot. It is a hallmark of the profession that we don’t have the best disengage, and since the safest way to deal with 1vX situations is to rapidly engage/disengage such that you’re really only fighting one target at a time, Necros can have a really rough time of it. Go into it expecting to fight like a honey badger and you’ll have a lot more fun. Flesh Worm and Spectral Walk can help and Plague form can save your bacon if you’re close to a tower, but generally approach fights as a to-the-death sort of thing.

For conditions, however, there are a few options. Runes of Lyssa can work really well with Necros. Both summoning Flesh Golem and causing it to charge trigger the rune’s #6 which clears all condis (though there’s a 45 or 60 second internal cooldown to that, I forget which), then there’s also Staff #4 and Dagger #4. Another trickier technique is to keep some Lemongrass Poultry Soup or Poultry and Leek Soup (if you’re a tightwad like me) and then eat it when fighting someone running condi spec. You can change your food at any time, even in combat, so that’s another way to deal with it. I don’t find that generally all that necessary, however, and -%condi duration foods activelly make Staff 4 and Dagger 4 worse, so there’s still a tradeoff to be had.

(Final edit, I swear: ) In general, I want to emphasize what chefdiablo said. Cliffs are another escape for us (if you have anything in your DS and it’s not on cooldown, jump off the cliff and flash into it as late as possible, since DS can absorb any amount of damage from a single big hit without wrapping over to your health bar), and roaming with a small group is probably your best bet. Necros prod some serious buttocks when they have a friend or two to help peel for them.