Guild Wars 2

I haven’t been playing much for the last couple of months and I hear they are introducing new traits and changing the way critical damage works. Back when I used to play a lot, necros were considered the worst class for dungeons and fractals because they brought very little to the team compared to other classes while doing average damage. Is this still the case or have they been buffed to rival the top tier classes like Warrior and Guardian?

Put your tin hat on…this should be fun!

In pugs they can carry. in an organized group they are not to great

There is no change. They are still the bottom class.

Sadly still not very useful..

about as good as your average warrior pug

My guild organized 40+ fractal team laughed at me for like 10 minutes when I asked if I could bring my necro…

Your guild sucks

edit: Your guild sucks big time

Depends on the build you use for them. Vampirism Zerker Wellomancer seems to do just fine in it.

Everything does “just fine” in this game. :P

ZudetGambeous.9573:

My guild organized 40+ fractal team laughed at me for like 10 minutes when I asked if I could bring my necro…

But seriously, your guild sounds awful.

Everyone in PvE seems concerned with completion times and speed-running everything, and there’s an established meta already for that type of play that doesn’t include Necros.

If you want to be part of that community, you should probably just roll Warrior.

People are generally ignorant in this game. MY fav example is people saying:

OH COND necro only do 5k dps a tick with condition and then say WAR does like 10kDPS. What they all seem to forget is we do 5k COND damage and we probably do an other 5k in Normal attacks… so in reality we also do 10k dps a tick. GW2players are terrible at math.. i have a hybrid necro doing about 3-4k Condition damage a tick ( all the time ) not to mention an other 7-13k Damage with my regular attacks.

if you know how to play your class properly ( what ever one ) ->
you are more viable and better then 99% of the GW2 players no matter the class they have.

I play a necro in high lvl fractals and honestly i out live and out DPS most people i play with. Going FULL zerk in high lvl fractals is as efficient as killing a Bear with a Plastic knife while being naked.

I rather Live. and if your alive you out DPS any one dead. lol

What i like about the necro is that we arguably we have the BEST AOE in the game ( not best dps , but overall = range ( scepter+ staff+ DS) , area we cover (DS #4-5) + epidemic… ) and we can out DPS single targets more then Zerk war . Depending on the fight i have a couple sets of weapons in my bags.

Fractals = lots of AOE needed and lots of bosses have 2-3 MOBS , NEcro = wins.
if you get the phew single targets , you still burn ouT AMAZING DPS ( more then most classes.

Ralron.8124:

People are generally ignorant in this game. MY fav example is people saying:

OH COND necro only do 5k dps a tick with condition and then say WAR does like 10kDPS. What they all seem to forget is we do 5k COND damage and we probably do an other 5k in Normal attacks… so in reality we also do 10k dps a tick. GW2 players are terrible at math.. i have a hybrid necro doing about 3-4k Condition damage a tick ( all the time ) not to mention an other 7-13k Damage with my regular attacks.

if you know how to play your class properly ( what ever one ) ->
you are more viable and better then 99% of the GW2 players no matter the class they have.

I play a necro in high lvl fractals and honestly i out live and out DPS most people i play with. Going FULL zerk in high lvl fractals is as efficient as killing a Bear with a Plastic knife while being naked.

I rather Live. and if your alive you out DPS any one dead. lol

What i like about the necro is that we arguably we have the BEST AOE in the game ( not best dps , but overall = range ( scepter+ staff+ DS) , area we cover (DS #4-5) + epidemic… ) and we can out DPS single targets more then Zerk war . Depending on the fight i have a couple sets of weapons in my bags.

Fractals = lots of AOE needed and lots of bosses have 2-3 MOBS , NEcro = wins.
if you get the phew single targets , you still burn ouT AMAZING DPS ( more then most classes.

I made the importend thing fat for u. U should read and think about it.

7-13k dagger 1? Or Axe 1? Or Zepter 1? Or DS 1? Or Axe 2? IF it´s the last thing….just check what i wrote above.

7-13k dps is:—> DS 1 —> axe 2 --> LF1 Witch with proper rotation is none stop. ( also requires me to drop my 15-25 stacks of VUL and my 10-15 stacks of might to do that. ( im not full zerk so its not a perfect 25/25 stacks )

Axe 2 , go to DS #1 for 4 shots , axe 2 is back up . Jump to LF or rotate to Scepter for cond or even drop some wells ( depending on fight ) and epidemic ( on any fight with more then 1 mob ). Rinse and repeat.

An other thing for example , lets say I do 5k Cond DPS .. then spread epidemic to hit 2-3 other mobs in a 360* angle in 600 radius . im still hitting 50% more targets then a WAR doing GS #2 only hitting targets DIRECTLY in front of him.

SO whats better a WAR doing 10-15k DPS to 2 targets . or a NEcro doing 5k-10k to 5 targets?! ( its pretty dam close )

so like i said before its all about knowing how to use your skill and knowing WHEN to use them. we do lack some *burst DPS compare to war for example but we have plenty of other things we can do that helps the fights/team while the CD reset.

saying that a NECRO sucks is just ignorant. The only disadvantage to a NEcro is when you meat a other COND build and you guys consistently stack 25 bleeds witch kills off your own DPS. ( hence why im hybrid to prevent does situations soo when I see 25 bleeds i rotate to Direct DPS)

@ Norjena , sorry but i dont see your other post?!

Against single, high-value targets, Necro is not very good in group PvE because of boss immunities and condition caps. However, mopping up adds with AoE is where Necro rules.

For example, if you were around for the Aetherblade invasion or the Queen’s Jubilee, the best way to describe those events is bag city. Marks, wells, and siphon AoE really wrecked enemy NPC troops; particularly those with boons and conditions. Compare that to boss fights in dungeons or other traditional events where the boss ignores most of Necro’s CC and conditions are close to, if not at, the cap. A conditionmancer’s bleeds can get bumped off the stack by a direct-damage or bunker-build of any profession. This lowers the Necro’s dps. (The Necro can do the same to any other group member but Necromancers suffer more for it because condi-damage is an integral part of its dps.)

Ok well id just like to point something out. If a warrior is doing 10k dps and cleaving thats 3 targets so 30k dps. If a necro is doing 5k dps to 5 targets thats 25k dps.

Anyway condi necro is something like 7k dps but it has considerable build up time which is one of the many flaws of condi. Beserker necro has 11k-12k dps on single targets.

@ Abchoku

: hence knowing what skills to use in a fight. but necro do shine in LS with the AOE. I love it, I get so much loot compare to my other alts.

@ Spoj The Second :

thats just the condition, so im 5K DPS off using JUST COND but im also dropping wells and doing direct DPS to compensate for that 5K DPS lost ( witch is actually mroe then 5k).

Point being, its VERY CLOSE! and if your a better players ( witch is not hard to be ) you can out DPS and out live almost any class on a regular.

I know we have less BUSRT DPS then most but the realaty of it is: you dont need burst because by the time your party is done one rotation most mobs are alredy dead lol. ( burst can help on BOSS fights)

PS: Im using 5K cond DPS as an exampe cause thats what I do as a HYBRID necro i also do allot of Direct DPS.

Build: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKcDOIgEGLU

No the 7k is including the direct damage. Condi necro does about 3.5k dps with conditions.

Spoj The Second.7680:

No the 7k is including the direct damage. Condi necro does about 3.5k dps with conditions.

hmm i do 3k with bleeds. 1k with burn and 1k with poison

Ok maybe its a bit higher then. Been a long time since i did the math.

How many bleed stacks are you maintaining? and how much are they doing per tick.

Ralron.8124:

Spoj The Second.7680:

No the 7k is including the direct damage. Condi necro does about 3.5k dps with conditions.

hmm i do 3k with bleeds. 1k with burn and 1k with poison

in order to get 1k burn dps you will need around 2.7k condi dmg.
with that condi damage your bleeds will do 178 per stack so about 17 stacks are needed for 3k dps.
your psn will tick for 350 dps.

if you can get that kind of damage solo please tell me how to get 2.7k condi damage.

http://gw2.hazno.net/ use this site to get your condition calculations. it does not have torment
Edit, also in order to get 7k dps you will need 3500 condi damage + 25 bleeds/100% burning uptime/100% psn uptime

Burn dps is usually not 1k because a guardian is enough for perma burning. So it´s ~ 700 (if u tick for 1k) party dps win.
Poison the same.

i like how he linked nemesis build, and no way it can do the numbers he mentioned…at least without 25might stacks..
Condition Damage is one stat, Power/Prec/Crit dmg are 3…You cannot expect condi build to come close to dmg against zerk. And because i use the nemesis hybrid build, the damage mentioned by ralron is wrong… i’d say in my opinion the dps is like 3,5-4k constant with some spikes up to 7k maybe (talking about dps not max hit). Which is mostly aoe and pretty good imo. + you have weakness blinds chills, and you can switch your weaps without destroying the build, because there is a good trait adaptability..

3k bleed, 1k poison? No chance in hell.

To the OP, you can beat almost all the PvE content in this game with any build and comp. It’s just a question of how much time you and your party are willing to spend. Most folks want it to be done as quickly as possible, and so the ‘circlezerk’ phenomenon manifests. A power build still puts out respectable damage, and with wells, boon strips, and ease of soft CC + Weakness the Necromancer can fill a decent niche. But it’s not a class for diehard speedrunners.

Ralron.8124:

People are generally ignorant in this game. MY fav example is people saying:

OH COND necro only do 5k dps a tick with condition and then say WAR does like 10kDPS. What they all seem to forget is we do 5k COND damage and we probably do an other 5k in Normal attacks… so in reality we also do 10k dps a tick. GW2players are terrible at math.. i have a hybrid necro doing about 3-4k Condition damage a tick ( all the time ) not to mention an other 7-13k Damage with my regular attacks.

if you know how to play your class properly ( what ever one ) ->
you are more viable and better then 99% of the GW2 players no matter the class they have.

I play a necro in high lvl fractals and honestly i out live and out DPS most people i play with. Going FULL zerk in high lvl fractals is as efficient as killing a Bear with a Plastic knife while being naked.

I rather Live. and if your alive you out DPS any one dead. lol

What i like about the necro is that we arguably we have the BEST AOE in the game ( not best dps , but overall = range ( scepter+ staff+ DS) , area we cover (DS #4-5) + epidemic… ) and we can out DPS single targets more then Zerk war . Depending on the fight i have a couple sets of weapons in my bags.

Fractals = lots of AOE needed and lots of bosses have 2-3 MOBS , NEcro = wins.
if you get the phew single targets , you still burn ouT AMAZING DPS ( more then most classes.

What, exactly, are you smoking? (Aside from Nemesis’ kitten?)

Furienify.5738:

3k bleed, 1k poison? No chance in hell.

To the OP, you can beat almost all the PvE content in this game with any build and comp. It’s just a question of how much time you and your party are willing to spend. Most folks want it to be done as quickly as possible, and so the ‘circlezerk’ phenomenon manifests. A power build still puts out respectable damage, and with wells, boon strips, and ease of soft CC + Weakness the Necromancer can fill a decent niche. But it’s not a class for diehard speedrunners.

Exactly, we’re not that bad at all, we can do every dungeon (rush or not) every fractal level at a decent speed, you just have to know the mechanics (easy to learn)
People should look at experience instead of profession, because everyone knows that a non experienced warrior will almost be picked over an experienced necro every time, but with consequences, their rush will fail too n.n and we can have it done in our way after all.

A whole lot of misinformation in here around condition damage…. You don’t compete in dungeons in a condition damage build. A heavy condi build does low damage because of the following:

1. Your stats don’t synergize well. To get condition damage + other damage, you need to take Rabid/Carrion/Rampagers. All three give very weak returns on power damage because of no crit damage, so your power damage is very lackluster.

2. You don’t damage structures, at all… (though carrion/rampager does okay here)

3. Your weak returns from vulnerability.

4. You get your burns, and poison overridden by any other user that may have no control over when those things proc (like a guardian). These conditions are always first come first serve, and there is no priority system.

5. Your bleeds at 25 will get knocked off by any new bleeds, even your own, potentially sending a 30 second bleed packing for a 4 second crit bleed.

Are there places where conditions work well? Sure… but not nearly as many places as where zerker works well.

Are you hurting your team rolling a full condi build? Most likely, but it isn’t the end of the world, as most PVE is not so difficult as to REQUIRE zerker players (See old arah 4).

In the best case scenario you can make due with conditions, and in a poorly optimized party you can be downright useless (see a party with multiple mesmers proccing short bleeds in zerker gear or a double condi necro party).

What you should ask yourself: Is it right that I have to justify my spot in this group by my personal ability, and not the merits and advantages of my class?

Rennoko.5731:

A whole lot of misinformation in here around condition damage…. You don’t compete in dungeons in a condition damage build. A heavy condi build does low damage because of the following:

1. Your stats don’t synergize well. To get condition damage + other damage, you need to take Rabid/Carrion/Rampagers. All three give very weak returns on power damage because of no crit damage, so your power damage is very lackluster.

2. You don’t damage structures, at all… (though carrion/rampager does okay here)

3. Your weak returns from vulnerability.

4. You get your burns, and poison overridden by any other user that may have no control over when those things proc (like a guardian). These conditions are always first come first serve, and there is no priority system.

5. Your bleeds at 25 will get knocked off by any new bleeds, even your own, potentially sending a 30 second bleed packing for a 4 second crit bleed.

Are there places where conditions work well? Sure… but not nearly as many places as where zerker works well.

Are you hurting your team rolling a full condi build? Most likely, but it isn’t the end of the world, as most PVE is not so difficult as to REQUIRE zerker players (See old arah 4).

In the best case scenario you can make due with conditions, and in a poorly optimized party you can be downright useless (see a party with multiple mesmers proccing short bleeds in zerker gear or a double condi necro party).

What you should ask yourself: Is it right that I have to justify my spot in this group by my personal ability, and not the merits and advantages of my class?

From the way you are making this sounds, it seems that the condition damage system needs a rework. Rather than making each condition a special case where said source is dealing burn damage and not overlapping with another burn source, it is instead overwritten by other people applying the same condition.

The condition damage system could very much use a rework, but that isn’t really in the foreseeable future’s cards. There are too many technical/architectural issues for ANet to work through in order to fix it for it to be upcoming soon, if I recall.

They have claimed the issue is server load with self stacks instead of shared stacks. But yes, my implication was the system is to blame.

Come to think of it, I don’t think the system is even really an issue in PvP. There are too many other implications with regard to cleansing and raw damage potential (imagine if you could have multiple instance of Burning on yourself. Life would be really, really bad).

However, in PvE/on mobs, the system really shows its shortcomings. It sort of has a lot of signs of a system designed for PvP and shoehorned into PvE without fully thinking it through, especially with encounters that involve large numbers of people attacking a singular target.

It really depends on the dungeon or fractal. In some areas they can be fairly helpful. Others, it doesn’t matter so much, such as Cof path one. For the most part we aren’t bad, just not great.

One area we actually shine in is the Volcanic Fractal. Once you get the hang of it a condition necromancer can make the fractal much easier with its condition spreading as well as its well of power to convert burning into aegis.

Once Unholy Sanctuary becomes available, some of our weaknesses should be softened. But the major problem of defense is still going to be an issue.

After doing a lot of Arah/Sorrow with my Staff and D/F vampirezerker Necro, i think they are fine, hell they cant be worse than rangers with their pet dying one shot to every boss mechanics and killing their dps at the same time.

There is no way you are getting 3k per tick on bleeds I can maybe get off 2.5k per tick and that’s impossible to maintain I would say on average I make 1.7k per tick off of my bleeds. 3k is insane.

The thing about condis is:

1: You share condis with rest of the party. Warr and mes applies bleeding stacks, a engineer does all condis, guardian does burning. All these negates YOUR condition damage.

2: The biggest reason why people dont go condis is because of the build-up time. For you to get those lets say 2k+ ticks, a berserker warrior has already killed them mobs and went on to the next group.

3: Dont let people fool you. There are people here that just refuses to realize this. Trust me I have a lot of time on my condimancer, was my first alt and i did 100% map exploring on him, and I sure liked playing it. But when it comes to effiency and teamplay theres just no place for necromancers right now.

4: Ralron has no idea what he’s talking about. Axe 2 is a single target skill. And the rotation? just lol. Before you get that rotation of buddy the party have killed 3 more groups of mobs..

5: Feel free to play your necromancer for general PvE, WvW nad living story. But for fractals and speedruns try get another class. Im not saying this because I hate necros. Because I have two level 80’s myself. But there’s just no place for it right now.

The reason conditions are such a problem in gw2 is because they are constantly checking the source for the condition damage and updating the damage per tick in realtime. If anet had them as a constant damage on apply then they could probably address some of the issues and negate some of the server load. Either way i doubt they will ever fix the problem as its too late now.

Spoj The Second.7680:

The reason conditions are such a problem in gw2 is because they are constantly checking the source for the condition damage and updating the damage per tick in realtime. If anet had them as a constant damage on apply then they could probably address some of the issues and negate some of the server load. Either way i doubt they will ever fix the problem as its too late now.

Of course it depends on how much flexibility they have with the engine, but it’s never too late to make functional changes like this.

However, I find it semi-ironic that WoW is removing snapshotting in their upcoming expansion, while it might just be something GW2 could use to help manage its load. Again though, I’d only think this would be something they’d do for PvE specifically, lest more people complain about the power of Conditions in PvP.

I love my necro and can hold my own.

I don’t run a condition build as such. I do focus on keeping weakness on almost 100% of the time. I use the self-bleed for might. and then use DS skills, especially around mobs, clears them pretty quick.

I don’t think a necro would ever be for speed runs. (unless they change some major things/make conditions more viable). But we’re sturdy and can let out some hefty DPS when spec’d well.

They’re still looked down on, but I love this class and I’m not going to play another one just because warriors think they’re gods.

I would just like to remind everyone that, even with zero crit damage bonus improvement, base crit damage is still there at something like 50% extra damage. The precision in Rabid gear is not a waste without adding additional critical hit bonus improvement. It is that improvement that is being nerfed and it is being nerfed a lot more than 10% to get total berserker damage down by 10%. People tend to forget about base crit damage, which is not insignificant.