I continouslly see in these forums people talking about how OPed Terror trait is
I really don’t get the fuss about it… Honestly, I might consider it a bit lacking even
Our fears only last 1~1.5 Seconds, and we have like 3~4 of those with pretty long CDs … Terror probably does like what? 800 damage a second? I don’t see how it’s that good …
You’re welcome to enlighten me
It does quite a bit more than that in a full condi build. It is only overpowered because you can apply it, burning, and 10+ bleeds in under 3 seconds while having them essentially stunlocked with little to no difficulty.
They pop stability, you pop corruption boon, etc etc.
The reason people say it is overpowered is for three reasons:
1. They play WvW and don’t like to run stun breaks or condi clears so hate the fact a necro is going to insta-gib them while they backstab (example) lowbies for 10k.
2. They don’t have access to stability, and therefore have a really hard time countering it.
3. It can be easily (and is often) taking with freebie-fire. So that 1200 damage per second becomes 2000 damage per second if they don’t immediately clear it, all the while the necro is lol-whut auto attacking for more bleeds and poison.
In say sPvP, it usually does around 1k damage/s and with most Terrormancer setups you can achieve up to 4 seconds of chained fear, potentially more by corrupting Stability.
So from that, that’s already 4K+ damage just from using fear, which is anywhere from 20-30% of most players HP. Add a few stacks of bleed, burning, poison and that player will be almost dead and about to die from bleeds while CCed the entire time.
It’s pretty similar to a thief stun lock but ranged and in the form of conditions instead of direct damage. In a perfect scenario it can seem quite bursty, but that requires heavy condition application before the cherry on top (terror) is applied.
Like others have said, it isn’t Terror or fear itself. It is that we can fear-lock you with no way for you to avoid getting hit (try to dodge Doom), while stacking over 10 bleeds, and burning, and a ton of other cover conditions so by the time you blow:
1. Stun break to get rid of the fear
2. At least one full cleanse, or multiple small-cleanses
You’re left with almost nothing defensive left. And guess what, that entire rotation will be up again in 20 seconds, less than your defensive CDs will be.
They added DumbFire & Torment. Then a CC that did extra damage while your CC’ed, followed by the more condi’s than can be cleaned is un-fun to others. As there’s no counter play.
Terror/Fear has 2 counters, brake stun, and can be cleansed. And was fine before too many condi’s to clean bullkitten.
They added DumbFire & Torment. Then a CC that did extra damage while your CC’ed, followed by the more condi’s than can be cleaned is un-fun to others. As there’s no counter play.
Terror/Fear has 2 counters, brake stun, and can be cleansed. And was fine before too many condi’s to clean bullkitten.
There are many counter plays… You just need to counter them lol. As stated before stun breaks & cleanse mechanics will clean up a fear Necro. Besides it’s no worse than warriors, engineers, or any other class that has a stun chain.
I noonger run this build but man I always hate when people QQ about it, I mean what you didn’t bring a stun breaker… Or any way to deal with conditions… And your built for 0 vitality (maybe a little toughness lol) and you are confused how a NECROMANCER killed you!?
Yeah I’m sorry that the kings of conditions melted your 13k life like it was nothing, o wait.
Anything you have to take is potentially too strong. Not overall, but relative to other traits. And you almost have to take terror as a condimancer.
BTW, the ‘relative to other traits’ means there are a variety of solutions if the trait does turn out to be a problem, ranging from making the trait baseline greater marks style, to buffing other traits, to just an outright nerf. It just depends on how strong the professions other traits are and how strong the profession is overall.
If you’re not playing to win, don’t complain when you lose.
It really isn’t that overpowered. Compare 1k damage per tic to how much damage warriors do while keeping you stunned, or a thief performing a backstab combo on you while you’re stunned.
The part that makes terror build OP is just the combination of dire gear + access to burning, bleeding, torment, and poison all while fear is ticking. I personally think that burning should be removed, and we should have another way to apply torment.
It’s not as bad as people make it seem either. I personally feel I have a 50/50 chance to take down a terrormancer on my thief, and I know that stun warriors countered the necro decently(at least pre-stun nerf). Some builds just get hard countered by condi necroes and thats no fun.
So basically it’s only that good for sPvP? because sounds like it’s only good for 1v1 :3
I personally would like to try a 30/20/0/0/20 build, though I really don’t know one, and I mostly WvW, I don’t like sPvP that much [Running 30/10/0/0/30 Powermancer]
Do you have any suggestions about a build for WvW? [And some demonstration videos would be nice…]
Btw I should probably mention I’m only playing Necro for about a month now, so I’m not familiar with all builds…
So basically it’s only that good for sPvP? because sounds like it’s only good for 1v1
Well, if huge condition aoe from epidemic combined with the ability to burst people down when necessary isn’t good for WvW then I suppose you’re right.. :P
It is the better build for smaller group battles, solo battles, and it can still deal nice pressure in large battles simply due to how fast we can apply conditions plus epidemic.
Epidemic alone validates the build in WvW, nothing can cleanse groups that fast.
There are many counter plays… You just need to counter them lol. As stated before stun breaks & cleanse mechanics will clean up a fear Necro. Besides it’s no worse than warriors, engineers, or any other class that has a stun chain.
I noonger run this build but man I always hate when people QQ about it, I mean what you didn’t bring a stun breaker… Or any way to deal with conditions… And your built for 0 vitality (maybe a little toughness lol) and you are confused how a NECROMANCER killed you!?
Yeah I’m sorry that the kings of conditions melted your 13k life like it was nothing, o wait.
Yeh… as I said, fear/terror has 2 counters. It had no issue being OP until we could throw more condi’s than can be cleaned.
War’s get more CC than stun brake can counter. (Especially if your a necro)
As you pointed out, toughness dose nothing vs condi, or damage on fear, or our siphon ‘heals’ damage.
It’s sad they have already nurfed terror, over a totally different issue. It’s sad that people still think it’s our ‘fear’ that makes us so cheap.
The fix is simple. Get rid of Dumfire/Torment. Or make cleanse keep up with the extra condi’s. Make siphon damage work like pretty much every other source of ‘direct damage’. (Rework torment to actually stop others running, as that was the idea of it, not to just help overwhelm the cleanse.)
Or, just keep nurfing all other necro ability’s till it’s deemed were just soo weak it’s fair. (The way it seems to be rolling)
The part that makes terror build OP is just the combination of dire gear + access to burning, bleeding, torment, and poison all while fear is ticking. I personally think that burning should be removed, and we should have another way to apply torment.
I see dire gear brought up alot when talking about terrormancer or P/D thief also. I was running a hidden killer build on my thief for about 2 days and the softest target are always terrormancers I would always average 8k+ backstabs on terror necromancers.
I actually never ran a hidden killer build usually went 0/20/30/20 2.6k armor is squishy! Mathematically we know dire will survive longer than rabid but it isn’t that much difference between the 2 in a terror build. Dire gear helps my P/D thief out much more than by necro since 30 points always go into the toughness tree.
The part that makes terror build OP is just the combination of dire gear + access to burning, bleeding, torment, and poison all while fear is ticking. I personally think that burning should be removed, and we should have another way to apply torment.
I see dire gear brought up alot when talking about terrormancer or P/D thief also. I was running a hidden killer build on my thief for about 2 days and the softest target are always terrormancers I would always average 8k+ backstabs on terror necromancers.
I actually never ran a hidden killer build usually went 0/20/30/20 2.6k armor is squishy! Mathematically we know dire will survive longer than rabid but it isn’t that much difference between the 2 in a terror build. Dire gear helps my P/D thief out much more than by necro since 30 points always go into the toughness tree.
I don’t use full dire, I like to keep my crit at around 30% for dumbfire and bleeds. But the added HP is great, I feel like a tank compared to rabid’s 18k.
As for p/d thieves, I feel dire isn’t necessary on them at all. They have plenty of survival already, better to have the added damage from carrion.
There are many counter plays… You just need to counter them lol. As stated before stun breaks & cleanse mechanics will clean up a fear Necro. Besides it’s no worse than warriors, engineers, or any other class that has a stun chain.
I noonger run this build but man I always hate when people QQ about it, I mean what you didn’t bring a stun breaker… Or any way to deal with conditions… And your built for 0 vitality (maybe a little toughness lol) and you are confused how a NECROMANCER killed you!?
Yeah I’m sorry that the kings of conditions melted your 13k life like it was nothing, o wait.
Yeh… as I said, fear/terror has 2 counters. It had no issue being OP until we could throw more condi’s than can be cleaned.
War’s get more CC than stun brake can counter. (Especially if your a necro)
As you pointed out, toughness dose nothing vs condi, or damage on fear, or our siphon ‘heals’ damage.
It’s sad they have already nurfed terror, over a totally different issue. It’s sad that people still think it’s our ‘fear’ that makes us so cheap.
The fix is simple. Get rid of Dumfire/Torment. Or make cleanse keep up with the extra condi’s. Make siphon damage work like pretty much every other source of ‘direct damage’. (Rework torment to actually stop others running, as that was the idea of it, not to just help overwhelm the cleanse.)
Or, just keep nurfing all other necro ability’s till it’s deemed were just soo weak it’s fair. (The way it seems to be rolling)
Sorry for the wall of quotes, You mentioned that a nice fix would be to buff cleanse mechanics… guess what happened in the 10/15 patch.
And honestly people who are calling terror OP are offering rediculas ideas to “nerf” a skill that was recently nerfed. The ability to stack conditions faster than you can cleanse them is what makes conditionmancer viable… think about it what would happen if we were unable to stack conditions so fast… we would do absolutely no damage, get steamrolled… and you would be happy.
Still dont even play this build myself but when i face a terrormancer i dont get peeved. I do get peeved when i fight a stunlock WAR or a bloody THF
30/20/0/0/20 is a pretty squishy and in WvW you need to be able to survive the hammer trains without running away from your group. Also dumbfire will proc on a random target not the one you select most of the time.
in WvW I think you should focus on AOE condi application with your skills and use epidemic if you want to get burning on targets.
Below are my stats for WvW which I think are enough to survive and deal out a decent amount of dmg. (SS was taken in Lions Arch)
30/20/0/0/20 is a pretty squishy and in WvW you need to be able to survive the hammer trains without running away from your group. Also dumbfire will proc on a random target not the one you select most of the time.
in WvW I think you should focus on AOE condi application with your skills and use epidemic if you want to get burning on targets.
Below are my stats for WvW which I think are enough to survive and deal out a decent amount of dmg. (SS was taken in Lions Arch)
Your build is great if you want to be tanky. It just won’t kill as fast as anyone with a condition build with 30 points in spite. You are are tanky but have worse life force generation than anyone with points in SR. I am not saying your build is bad because I know its not I have played it.
People can disengage from your build. That is what people say when it comes to dhuumfire. What it does is punish people for making a mistake if they stick around to long. Will also give a cover condition. Not just because you have the burns but you also have +30% condition duration than your build.
People have played without dhuumfire I have too. You can tell the difference when taking someone down. So the question is between your build and putting those points into spite. Is tanky condition vs quick kill condi. There is nothing wrong with having both. In good size battles you would hold up well. In roaming you would hold up well but more people would be able to disengage and reset with your build.
They really are 2 different builds that both happen to use condition damage.
A 30/20/20 build with the same gear setup but running runes of speed would still out dps your build on a single target all while having around 480 less condition damage but the same armor and close to the same hp -350 HP points.
If you’re running with a zerg i don’t recommend 30/20/0/0/20 purely for the fact that most of your tree will be useless. You don’t need LF gen in a zerg, most of spite is wasted, and your most valued weapon ‘the staff’ will be blocked. For zergs it is highly recommended to run wells and staff traits, as your purpose in a zerg is back lining.
This goes the same for Guild vs Guild, where a proper setup is mandatory.
