Guild Wars 2

I’ve been preaching this for a while, but I wanted to give it its own post. Here goes:

The Problem
The simple reality is the greatsword is not a good PvP weapon. In fact, it’s an absolutely abysmal one. The axe is more effective by a significant margin. It is very hard to land its attacks on players. Necromancers have little mobility, and most classes are not only faster than us, but about 90% of the time they’re in range they’re evading, invulnerable, blocking, stealthing, applying blinds, interrupting our long casts, or just moving so fast a GS attack will not land. I don’t know if a dev has sat down and seriously PvPed with this weapon, but it’s…pretty miserable.

Speeding it up ISN’T an option
It’s been made very clear the greatsword is supposed to be a slow, powerful weapon. If you speed it up, it will become very generic. Unfortunately, its slow speed makes it very non-viable in PvP. How do we solve this?

Give it slightly more range (Hear me out!)
I am not proposing we make the greatsword a ranged weapon like the necro staff, mesmer greatsword, or even the necro axe. It should be somewhere between melee and medium range akin to the Guardian staff, but shorter and broader. Several skills (GS3, GS4, and GS5) already have sufficient range for their function. Really only the auto attack and gravedigger need a range boost.

How to change these abilities
The first two swings of the auto attack should emit a small shadowy particle effect a short range in front of the caster in a broad cone (say 200-300 units). This could be a simple black swoop with some of the falling raven feathers we see on Gravedigger.

The third swing of the auto attack should be a frost nova-esque explosion at the point of impact, doing a radial chill effect with about 200-300 units.

Finally, Gravedigger should just get a small boost to its radius, (again 200-300 units). It does not have to be tremendous, but this attack almost never hits a remotely competent player in PvP who isn’t downed. Even when the cast does complete and an opponent is still in range, they’ve usually had ample time to block, evade, pop an invulnerability, interrupt you (no stability on greatsword or utilities), or have afflicted you with blind or weakness, making this attack that never lands score a very mediocre hit. It’s a huge amount of work for a very rare, very unreliable payoff.

If you are fighting a decent PvPer on a non-reaper class (reapers coincidentally being the only thing slow enough to ever eat a gravedigger), I can basically guarantee you will NOT land this skill even one time in 10-20 fights. It really shouldn’t even be on the bar for PvP as it is.

Would this be overpowered?
I’m almost 100% certain it would not. What I am proposing is a modest range boost that would only correct for a very small number of times that GD currently misses (those times when an extra 100 units makes the difference, and not block, dodge, greater distance, invuln, blind, etc – and I assure you these cause many, many of the missed attacks).

The simple fact is the greatsword is very weak at the moment in PvP, and in absolutely no danger of being overpowered. When it comes to its range and utility, there’s very little risk of overbuffing this.

I strongly feel changes comparable to this should be implemented. I also feel that, if they were, the general consensus would STILL be that the greatsword is far from an optimal SPvP weapon, because its design is just not appropriate for a fast-paced gameplay. However, this would certainly help it actually feel like a cleave weapon as opposed to a miss-a-bunch-and-die weapon.

Thanks for reading.

Agreed that a modest range increase would be welcome (thanks for the well-thought out post), but I vote against an AOE chill on the AA chain. There’s quite a bit of it already, and it would diminish the value of the AOE chills available from the Chillin Darkness trait.

Salamander.2504:

Agreed that a modest range increase would be welcome (thanks for the well-thought out post), but I vote against an AOE chill on the AA chain. There’s quite a bit of it already, and it would diminish the value of the AOE chills available from the Chillin Darkness trait.

This is a good point. I’d be fine if the 3rd swing only chilled the closest target. Really just want to see the damage actually land.

Salamander.2504:

Agreed that a modest range increase would be welcome (thanks for the well-thought out post), but I vote against an AOE chill on the AA chain. There’s quite a bit of it already, and it would diminish the value of the AOE chills available from the Chillin Darkness trait.

Ehh isnt the 3rd part of the auto already a aoe chill (3 targets)? Not that the auto would need a big chill explosion like the op proposed but the chill on the auto is already aoe.

That aside, i think if changing the speed isnt a option increasing the range would be the next best thing i would guess. That said why do greatswords even have the same range then daggers (i think ranger gs is the only gs that has higher range then daggers)? I mean my greatsword has atleast twice the size my daggers have yet there is no range difference…

Jackalrat.5493:

Speeding it up ISN’T an option
It’s been made very clear the greatsword is supposed to be a slow, powerful weapon. If you speed it up, it will become very generic. Unfortunately, its slow speed makes it very non-viable in PvP. How do we solve this?

I’d like to point something out, you can get the feeling of being slow without actually having every ability be slow. Gravedigger fits the slow just fine, plus 3/4/5 all have the feeling that GS was supposed to deliver. I don’t think we need to then also have an extremely long AA chain that is unrealistic to finish. Furthermore the AA is entirely backloaded, if you don’t get the third hit you lose most of the power. Range won’t help this, only taking a bit off the last hit and speeding up the attacks a little bit will.

Now, if they refuse to speed it up, which I guess I can understand, then at the very least it can’t be the case that you have to land the last hit for the AA to even be worth using. It has 60% of the LF generation, all of the chill, and the hardest hitting attack.

Bhawb.7408:

Jackalrat.5493:

Speeding it up ISN’T an option
It’s been made very clear the greatsword is supposed to be a slow, powerful weapon. If you speed it up, it will become very generic. Unfortunately, its slow speed makes it very non-viable in PvP. How do we solve this?

I’d like to point something out, you can get the feeling of being slow without actually having every ability be slow. Gravedigger fits the slow just fine, plus 3/4/5 all have the feeling that GS was supposed to deliver. I don’t think we need to then also have an extremely long AA chain that is unrealistic to finish. Furthermore the AA is entirely backloaded, if you don’t get the third hit you lose most of the power. Range won’t help this, only taking a bit off the last hit and speeding up the attacks a little bit will.

Now, if they refuse to speed it up, which I guess I can understand, then at the very least it can’t be the case that you have to land the last hit for the AA to even be worth using. It has 60% of the LF generation, all of the chill, and the hardest hitting attack.

The increase in range would just allow for you to cleave on a point. So when you have multiple targets, even the first one getting away doesn’t eliminate the possibility of you hitting a secondary target to keep the chain going.

That’s nice for some situations in PvP, but doesn’t fix PvE’s huge problem.

The only cast time that feels excessively slow to me is the end of the autoattack chain. Skills 3, 4, and 5 are all pretty quick and to the point, and the first two autoattack swings feel good, but the extra quarter-second wind-up really throws off my rhythm when I’m swinging. I have to keep reminding myself to let it actually land before switching to another skill and that always feels like an eternity. So if I had to wish for one small change, it would be for the third swing to drop to 3/4. A bit more range might be kinda cool too, though the rhythm would still feel off.

Gravedigger… would be difficult to change. Its damage is so incredibly high that even though missing feels really bad, I don’t know that it deserves any more range than it currently has, and certainly not in PvE.

I would like to see the LF gain be more spread throughout the chain, the chill to be on the second hit of the AA chain, and the third to have another effect (a siphon, since that seems to be our thing?). Not only would this make the chill more relevant, and a better setup for the last swing, it would help the chain interact with Chilling Victory better.

A range increase on Gravedigger would be very welcome. With the all-or-nothing nature of the ability, you can’t just root/stun someone for 1 second then reliably get some damage from GD (like you can with other classes’ GS “long-cast” abilities), and 170 units is just not very much to step away from or account for lag when this ability is so central to the GS’s kit.

Also, that obscene aftercast really does wonders for making Gravedigger feel less fluid and enjoyable. :/ If that could get reduced/removed, I’d be a happy camper.

I don’t think an extra 50-75 units would matter much in PvE. Doubt it would make it OP or affect it much at all.

This thread is about PvP where this weapon is utter garbage. Something has to give. Range. Speed. Something.

I’m fine with GS in PvP and WvW and the build I use promotes GS use.

Although I had to completely adapt my play style to it’s use.

Honestly, there is a difference between being slow and being frozen. The 2 first hits of the AA are slow, the last one feels like i’m frozen in place. I am actually fine with most other skills. Yes, gravedigger is slow, but considering its damage, it’s a good thing. On the other hand, I never feel like the AA is paying of, especially the last hit. Make the last hit the same cast as the 2 first ones, even if this means reducing its damage, chill duration and LF generation.

It’s not only that I rarely hit with my last AA skill, it’s that I’m getting bored during the cast!

I play all classes.
Agree that gs need’s some love on necro

( NERF rev hammer two but give them condi clense!!!!)

Most balanced way it could be, but might need some of these suggestions.

lolok

AirWick.1769:

All these qqers on gs in pvp. The way it is now its the most balanced way it could be..

This kind of logic sure did wonders for vanilla Necros over three years.

And by wonders I mean an absolute disaster.

Heaven forbid that the weapons on a class actually have niches that they work on!

To think, that the developers had the gall to not just give us 5 weapon skills, and whatever combination of weapons we equipped would be exactly those same 5 skills!

The shame of it all that there are mobs that actually require some planning and thought to approaching, and that just going 100% melee all the time against them may not be the best solution!

The horror of it all that they went out and gave PvE players a bone after nerfing PvE necro into the ground because PvP necro needed X or Y for 3 years.

GS is fine as is. It isn’t intended as a high level PvP weapon, and very clearly never was.

Hah. Gotta love how a very modest change requested, that would primarily impact PvP, results in a slew of overly generalized responses that completely miss the point, like the one above.

Ah well, I’ll continue to use the GS even if it’s dramatically subpar.

Klaeljanus.7695:

GS is fine as is. It isn’t intended as a high level PvP weapon, and very clearly never was.

Really? I dont recall any dev ever saying that it is not intended to be used in high level pvp.

The only intention i see (and which was stated by the devs) is that gs is a slow heavy hitting weapon that uses soft cc to keep its enemies close enough to hit them. And in theory the skill set exactly does that. The only problem is in practise it doesnt work out so well.

Sad to see no changes to GS in today’s balance patch, looks like we have to wait another week. Keep on pleading your cases.

It really doesnt matter if Gs gets buffed or not. If your changes got implemented today, the problems will still be there, you will still be wasting your time with everyone else that is constantly evading, invunerable, blocking etc. All that would happen is the changes will give people more reason to stack all these negates.

Do you know how i know this? because its how the studio makes its changes. What you will see if they d buff the weapon is a slight LF regen increase, maybe pulse interval on nightfall shortened or if we are lucky, a slight grave digger cast time decrease. Forget about the radius being increased by that much. Forget about any new animations for QoL.

What you are looking for is for the ability to punish classes that constantly stack attack negates. That unfortunately will not come from one weapon buff but from some traits being reworked and/or added.

My thoughts on GS.

4 – Perfectly fine. Maybe a bit strong. Love this ability.

5 – Very strong CC can be dodged if you are paying attention but it’s not hard to land this ability.

2 – Appropriate windup for the ridiculous damage this deals. Actually very possible to hit people with this if you bait out their dodge rolls first or time it so that it slaps them right at the end of a dodge roll. Just don’t lead with it unless you’re in a group and the other people are laying down CC. Best combo with Gravty Well.

3 – This could have better tracking for enemies that move to the side. Still not that hard to hit with due to the large hitbox and multiple hits.

1 – Holy god kitten this thing is slow as kitten. Almost never worth using unless everything else is on CD.

GS is bad in Pvp.

I dont think it was intended to ever be good in Pvp either. I think GS was just the Devs “how do we up Necromancer DPS from rock bottom to mid tier without breaking Pvp.”

If I’m wrong about this and greatsword was supposed to be playable, here’s my suggestion:

Increase the attack speed on the third hit of the autoattack. This makes the third hit a reliable execute, and punishes enemies for not avoiding the really slow first and second hits.

Ragion.2831:

It really doesnt matter if Gs gets buffed or not. If your changes got implemented today, the problems will still be there, you will still be wasting your time with everyone else that is constantly evading, invunerable, blocking etc. All that would happen is the changes will give people more reason to stack all these negates.

//

What you are looking for is for the ability to punish classes that constantly stack attack negates. That unfortunately will not come from one weapon buff but from some traits being reworked and/or added.

The only issues I’ve had with negates was a DD Daredevil when I didn’t have enough condi cleanse (I was so stacked full of stuff, I would die before I could do anything to its hp bar). What are the others giving problems?