Guild Wars 2

Dear gentlemen,

I have some questions concerning the new necro Reaper specialisation. Seeing how you can get 3 lines and have chill damage fear damage and burning in melee range it got me thinking that hybrid reapers might be a good choice. I am somewhat uncertain on which gear to use to get optimal results.

This may not even strictly apply to necros but to all hybrids. I will leave out celestial gear because they mentioned nerfing it also because necros don’t benefit from healing power and vitality as much.
Made for WvW roaming.

Here is the likely trait setup. Weapons are greatsword and staff.
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgQFvALsBug~
This is my gear and runes.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fREQNArYWjc0UTb5NG3wfDA-TBCEABQcGAY4BAksyvh1H0lSwJV/x49HA4QAQKAYmGB-e

The first question would be how much Condi dmg would be optimal to go with the power. I was initially going with 1k condi and i haven’t been able to find actual ratios on this to make it better. However with the ammount of traits invested into conditions i am thinking that this number should be higher.

Concerning how much power/crit/ferocity i have found this spreadsheet.

http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/19418960-math-balancing-power-precision-ferocity-based-on-ep
Basicly none of the optimal values listed seem in any way atainable. My conclusion that going for straight up power is the best choice.

Another dillema is that necros dont need any vitality and scale better with toughness. This makes carrion somewhat suboptimal. I was aiming for about 1.3k toughness.
As a final point there are some traits like Barbed Precision that would reward having some precission.

You might say that going straight up condi is the best idea with this setup, but most condi builds rely on kiting and avoiding damage while your condis are ticking. I am not sure how it will work out in the end and if condi build will not just be preferable but its worth a shot.

Any help in optimizing this, especially on the gear part since i am collecting those right now, would be greatly appreaciated.

actually I thought vitality worked better for necros than toughness since vitality translate to more lifeforce.

other than that, I think its a bit hard to suggest now for HOT.
But generally I feel that a hybrid build needs to:
1) figure out the minimum defensive stats (vit, toughness) you need to survive most enemy builds if they have the initiative and you need to stay alive long enough to return the pain
2) the rest goes into offensive stats, burst them down!

both your weapon choice of staff/GS are very slow weapons. I honestly feel that this is not a good choice for WvW roaming solo.

but really i think its too early to say XD

just that, don’t go cavalier.

Thank you for your reply!

I have read many topics on the subject of vitality vs toughness on necros.
From what i deduced vitality gives you a bigger hp pool in DS and as a result also increases the lf gain per 1% as well as the damage you take passively while being in DS.
Toughness makes you last longer out of death shround and effectively increases your heal. It also makes each 1% life force more valuable.

For me the winner is clearly toughness. As a build where i juggle conditions and could even add another condi transfer conditions seem like the lesser danger. Coupled with the fact that Neco already has a sufficient vitality base there seems little reason to increase this.
There are also many power builds prominent in WvW. For example thiefs, Medi guardians, GS warriors , Pew Pew rangers and Shatter mesmers. You do run into the odd condi build now and then but from my experience there is a power tendecy.

About the other points:
I agree that the weapons are pretty slow and depending on the results i might swap the greatsword for something like dagger dagger.
Im also with you about the focus on offensive stats, but i wonder specifcly about the rato between my power and condi.

Why not cavalier?

actually from what you said, i too think that perhaps for a hybrid necro, toughness is more important? we can transfer condis easily, but are weakest when out of DS and toughness will help allow us to survive better.

but is there a Condi(main) Power Toughness type of armor?

hmm well with low crit chance, ferocity in cavelier for Crit dmg becomes less significant.

Also I feel that 2K power should give you enough damage to break, say, a diamond skin ele.

the rest should go to condi and crit chance.

my current hybrid wvw solo roaming build → not applicable to HOT

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQNArYWjc0UbbnNO2wfbCchSqeA6FIAaho/gJIfB-TFDFABNq+jc7PAwRA43TAgAHCAkUKkm2AmUWAlSs40BolSQlfAABAQAmZZWmzMwRP6RP6RPa7cmHdnH9olCAmlVA-w

Pride.1734:

From what i deduced vitality gives you a bigger hp pool in DS and as a result also increases the lf gain per 1% as well as the damage you take passively while being in DS.

Yes.

Pride.1734:

Toughness makes you last longer out of death shround and effectively increases your heal. It also makes each 1% life force more valuable.

No.

Pride.1734:

Another dillema is that necros dont need any vitality and scale better with toughness. This makes carrion somewhat suboptimal.

The exact opposite.

EremiteAngel.9765:

actually from what you said, i too think that perhaps for a hybrid necro, toughness is more important? we can transfer condis easily, but are weakest when out of DS and toughness will help allow us to survive better.

but is there a Condi(main) Power Toughness type of armor?

hmm well with low crit chance, ferocity in cavelier for Crit dmg becomes less significant.

Also I feel that 2K power should give you enough damage to break, say, a diamond skin ele.

the rest should go to condi and crit chance.

my current hybrid wvw solo roaming build -> not applicable to HOT

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQNArYWjc0UbbnNO2wfbCchSqeA6FIAaho/gJIfB-TFDFABNq+jc7PAwRA43TAgAHCAkUKkm2AmUWAlSs40BolSQlfAABAQAmZZWmzMwRP6RP6RPa7cmHdnH9olCAmlVA-w

Yes the main difficuly with building a good hybrid is the lack of power thoughness condi gear.

You are right there are better choices than cavalier.

Adapting to what you showed me, this build should give me good condi dmg good vitality and toughness while sacrificing some power. I suppose praxis will tell if this actually works but i defenitely appreciate your feedback.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQNArYWjc0UbbnNO2wfbCchSqeA6FIAaho/gJIfB-TVBZwAzV/Bk+A57PATJIAlfBAQAIY0SBAzYL-w

@flow
It is an open discussion and even though i have already read much on the topic and also tested some things, I am always open to be convinced by well funded opinions but you have to give your reasons so that i can understand them.

So how well do you do with your new build? How long can you survive 3 people jumping on you?

I am still getting the gear. Also i want to wait for a bit more input and suggestions on my latest version. I suppose the final test will be when HoT releases.

Pride.1734:

@flow
It is an open discussion and even though i have already read much on the topic and also tested some things, I am always open to be convinced by well funded opinions but you have to give your reasons so that i can understand them.

First of all, the point of getting toughness is to improve healing effectivness against direct damage. And while you get deminishing returns on toughness the more you have because of how damage is calculated, vitality always scales linear.

Secondly, for necros most of their defense comes from generating life force and absorbing damage in Death Shroud. Lf regen is always percentage based so in that regard you don’t have to worry about healing effectiveness at all.
Also, necros have bad healing. Almost no sources other than a main heal that usually refills less than a third of their health pool.

So, after doing some math (here are some more detailed calculations) you realize that the effective hp of a carrion vs rabid amulet is only slightly in favour of rabid if you don’t have any extra toughness at all. But once you add about ~80 toughness carrion starts taking the lead. In case of the current condi meta build with 4 points in Death Magic, you start with 200 toughness over base stats plus another 170 in DS.

The bottom line is, rabid can still overtake carrion after some healing, but only if you take nothing but direct damage and don’t use Death Shroud at all. Non of which would actually happen in a real fight, because of course you’re using your life force as much as possible and you’ll always take condition damage, especially in the current cele meta.
Basically, the scenarios where toughness is a better defensive stat for necros than vitality will never happen in real PvP matches or WvW fights.