Guild Wars 2

Since the last patch that allowed stability to be stripped simply with CC, many skills and traits lost or gained value. After reading the forums for the last few days it seems that all the necro community is in agreement that FitG is definitely not worth the opportunity cost of Death Perception. Some even said they would not take it even if it was an adept trait! I made this thread so we can discuss how the trait can be brought back from the grave, and hopefully devs will read it and not buff revenant but look at necromancer. (in b4 you must be new here comments). Anyways I thought of a few ways it could be made viable, any one of these would be a sufficient buff:

1) Simply increase the stacks to 3
2) Make death shroud enter/exit not interrupt resurrects and stomps. This may bring other problems that I haven’t given thought to but it would be a MAJOR Quality of Life improvement for all necro builds.
3) Add a stunbreak to the trait (would not be OP as you either have to save your DS for stuns or be stunned while in it.
4) Remove it to master trait line
5) Your suggestion?

I suggested making it the DM 3 point minor in the pvp forums. The reason I think this would be good is because it would allow necros to invest 3 points to get a little bit of stability. For me, this trait has always been something that requires you to adjust your playstyle too much to get a lot of effectiveness out of it. If it was a minor, you would still get a bonus, but not feel bad by not utilizing it to its full effectiveness. It’s never been a good gm imo, just the only source of stability necros have. If necros had access to a utility that gave stability, no one would have ever taken this, and that means to me it simply isn’t a gm.

DS enter/exit doesn’t interrupt res/stomping I thought?

Also I think this trait would be much better if it pulsed X stability every Y seconds. I’m becoming more and more a fan of rewarding staying in DS.

Edit: making it the DM 3 trait is a great idea too.

I really liked using FitG in a deathshroud spectral build… Thank you Anet….

Bhawb.7408:

DS enter/exit doesn’t interrupt res/stomping I thought

I´m pretty sure it does.

Since lacking group utility/support is one of our biggest weaknesses at the moment, why not make it a “shout”-type of effect?

e.g.

• 3 stacks of stability for 7 seconds
• 5 targets
• radius 600

Skoigoth.9238:

Bhawb.7408:

DS enter/exit doesn’t interrupt res/stomping I thought

I´m pretty sure it does.

Since lacking group utility/support is one of our biggest weaknesses at the moment, why not make it a “shout”-type of effect?

e.g.

• 3 stacks of stability for 7 seconds
• 5 targets
• radius 600

I’ll try and use anet logic to say why that won’t happen.

Anet Logic: Necromancers are supposed to be a selfish class, therefore, no.

Bhawb.7408:

Also I think this trait would be much better if it pulsed X stability every Y seconds. I’m becoming more and more a fan of rewarding staying in DS.

I agree with this. Perhaps making many “on ds entry traits” pulse while in ds instead would make them more useful.

I would much rather have stab when exiting ds to cover our long cast times and most obvious heal. Having stab when entering ds makes sense because its meant to absorb damage, but cc is the main counterplay element against ds. It would suck to not have it easy when ds-stomping people but the tradeoff is so worth it imo.

Bhawb.7408:

DS enter/exit doesn’t interrupt res/stomping I thought?

Also I think this trait would be much better if it pulsed X stability every Y seconds. I’m becoming more and more a fan of rewarding staying in DS.

Edit: making it the DM 3 trait is a great idea too.

So far we have seen that the pulsing stability method is only available to elites, which makes sense. Of course hallowed ground is an exception but that was like that before the patch. Maybe it could give us 1 stack of stability every 5 seconds as long as we stay in the shroud.

To warrant being a GM trait it really needs to be either pulsing, or grant more initial stacks and uptime. If it were pulsing I would make it probably 1 stack with a gap between uptime and the next pulse (to differentiate and make it less effective compared to elite stability pulsing).

I like a few other ideas in this thread too like area stability or making other on-enter DS traits pulsing effects too.

I have always felt that at least self-buffing stability should have been a feature of the Necro class. It seems to be the missing link in much of our functionality and was likely kept out of our design, because of what appears to be Necro + Boons = Bad mentality.

Stand The Wall.6987:

I would much rather have stab when exiting ds to cover our long cast times and most obvious heal. Having stab when entering ds makes sense because its meant to absorb damage, but cc is the main counterplay element against ds. It would suck to not have it easy when ds-stomping people but the tradeoff is so worth it imo.

+1 This guy gets it.

Three stacks would make it worthwhile I think. Of course I’d would prefer more but I think it would work then.

I’ve pretty much moved on from using this trait anyway. Its far too expensive as a GM trait to grant as little as it does.

Entering DS breaks stun leaving DS grants 2 stacks of stab for 2 secs.

There are a lot of ways I could be happy with this trait:

Foot in the Grave — Grandmaster Soul Reaping
Gain 1 stack of Stability for 10 seconds when entering Death Shroud.

This is a longer duration, low-stack variant. This could be very strong with boon duration and multiple entrance/exits into DS, allowing you to create a 2-3 stack buffer of Stability before engaging, but being easily removed once in-combat.

Foot in the Grave — Grandmaster Soul Reaping
Gain 3 stacks of Stability for 3 seconds when entering Death Shroud.

This is the more-stacks, lower duration variant most people have been clamoring for. I think this is the least strategically significant variant and the least exciting, but it would at least keep the trait relevant.

Foot in the Grave — Minor Master Soul Reaping (3 trait point minor)
Gain 1 stack of Stability for 3 seconds when entering Death Shroud.

Making this a lower tier minor trait but keeping its current functionality would be very strong and very awesome. I could survive its current functionality if it were more accessible to an assortment of builds.

Foot in the Grave — Grandmaster Soul Reaping
Break stuns when entering Death Shroud.

No Stability, but it now serves as a stunbreak instead. This would be pretty much my favorite approach as it means activating Death Shroud could help escape a CC chain. As nice as it would be to also have 1 stack of Stability on this version of the trait, having a potentially 7 second cooldown stunbreak is already incredible. This would probably need an ICD to be fair, but would be so worth it.

Rising Dusk.2408:

There are a lot of ways I could be happy with this trait:

Foot in the Grave — Grandmaster Soul Reaping
Gain 1 stack of Stability for 10 seconds when entering Death Shroud.

This is a longer duration, low-stack variant. This could be very strong with boon duration and multiple entrance/exits into DS, allowing you to create a 2-3 stack buffer of Stability before engaging, but being easily removed once in-combat.

Requiring +7~10 seconds ooc, impossible amount of +boon duration (and we don’t have that much boons to profit from it) and risking being ganked without death shroud to be effective, no thank you.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Foot in the Grave — Minor Master Soul Reaping (3 trait point minor)
Gain 1 stack of Stability for 3 seconds when entering Death Shroud.

Making this a lower tier minor trait but keeping its current functionality would be very strong and very awesome. I could survive its current functionality if it were more accessible to an assortment of builds.

Last gasp is stronger. Maybe death magic instead of soul reaping.

Foot in the Grave — Grandmaster Soul Reaping
Break stuns when entering Death Shroud.

No Stability, but it now serves as a stunbreak instead. This would be pretty much my favorite approach as it means activating Death Shroud could help escape a CC chain. As nice as it would be to also have 1 stack of Stability on this version of the trait, having a potentially 7 second cooldown stunbreak is already incredible. This would probably need an ICD to be fair, but would be so worth it.

First shroud dancing is not a thing. Second considering the revenant gets the same kind of trait and swapping legend at 10 seconds is not as hazardous as flashing death shroud (almost all migitation is gone) so stunbreak plus 1 stack of stab would not be op. Also remember for these 7 seconds we need a master and grantmaster and not using death shroud for an instant is a huge commitment therefore balanced.

Tim.6450:

Requiring +7~10 seconds ooc, impossible amount of +boon duration (and we don’t have that much boons to profit from it) and risking being ganked without death shroud to be effective, no thank you.

There’s play and counterplay, and that’s good. Also, all condi builds already go 4 deep into DM anyway, and Power builds will be using Deathly Perception instead of FitG (WvW builds will likely have traveler runes too, which gives 10%). I’ll admit I don’t think this variant is my favorite, but I do think taking advantage of the stacking nature of Stability with longer duration but lower stack Stability-granting traits is intriguing and powerful.

Tim.6450:

Last gasp is stronger. Maybe death magic instead of soul reaping.

Last Gasp is great, don’t get me wrong. FitG as a minor trait could also just as easily be in the SR5 trait spot, or it could be in the DM3 spot.

Tim.6450:

First shroud dancing is not a thing. Second considering the revenant gets the same kind of trait and swapping legend at 10 seconds is not as hazardous as flashing death shroud (almost all migitation is gone) so stunbreak plus 1 stack of stab would not be op. Also remember for these 7 seconds we need a master and grantmaster and not using death shroud for an instant is a huge commitment therefore balanced.

You should not under any circumstance attempt to balance the Necromancer based upon preliminary beta balance of a completely different class. Beyond that, Necromancer is already actually very strong.. We really shouldn’t be scoring stability and a stunbreak together on a potential 7 second cooldown. That’s too much.

I think simply adding a stunbreak to the trait (without ICD) is something ANet should look into, though. Even if it doesn’t make it to live, it’s something that should probably be tested internally.

Or move this to a minor trait. The rev has this as a minor trait which means with vigor he can have a lot of stability. Even with a stun break its not worth a grandmaster trait. We need something more.

#Bringbackshade

In all likelihood, the next time anet looks at this underwhelming trait (which is not necessarily the next balance patch), they will up the duration to 7 seconds for one stack f stability.

I think if it breaks stun with no stability (or at most the 1 stack at 3s) it would be fine as a GM, it also would fit DM 3 really well as is. The one thing I’d like to say though is if it moves places we need for the new SR GM that takes its place to be defensive, still. We are heavily lacking of decent defensive traiting at the GM level.

I would say yes to adding a stunbreak to it. Just adding stacks doesnt really solve the previous problem of it not being particularly worth the grandmaster slot due to it being dependant on wasting your class mechanic.

I like the idea to put it in DM and the one that gives it a longer duration. But as it stands now it’s not at all worth a GM slot. Hopefully this opens up an opportunity for Anet to make it useful, as I’ve said before.

Oh also the idea to make it give stability upon leaving DS to cover the heal was really smart, but not really enough on its own. Like if it gave 2 seconds on entry and 2 seconds on exit or something.

Frankly I think they should move it to Death magic & make it apply AOE stability to nearby allies upon entering & leaving death shroud (2 seconds each)

Fig should be a grandmaster minor and give 2 stacks. There’s honestly no point in deathshroud if you are being bounced around and continuously stun locked.

I like stun break with 1 stack, seems worthy. At least you can get up afterwards after being cc bombed.

Also if the stack was shared by allies would make the necro a bit more group friendly.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Frankly I think they should move it to Death magic & make it apply AOE stability to nearby allies upon entering & leaving death shroud (2 seconds each)

I don’t think I would want it in death magic, but I concur on the rest. As a VERY selfish class we could do with a bit of party support and making our FitG be an aoe (5 target) would go a long way towards making me want to take this (occasionally) over deathly perception. If you added in the stun break I would use it regularly.

You guys seem to be trying to take a baby step towards giving us a useful stability. I think our class godkitten warrants a powerful Stability skill in ds. We should be given shade especially when the rev can keep stab up almost constantly for him and part of his group. I’m tired of getting second class poorly thought out skills that we have to push to the max or kitten our builds to make us useful.

We take baby steps because the last time we were given too much at once we were nerfed over and over for months before they just removed what made us too strong and never gave us anything back.

I do hear what your saying Bhawb and like you I was there and experienced the excitement of the raw power we received, unaskingly. That said, I think our class warrants a skill like shade and here is why. We go into ds now and we are limited and actually, to some degree vulnerable, especially after the nerf to fitg. How when someone sees us in ds we are a ping pong ball to cc. Our skills are uber slow to fire and are heavily telegraphed. Channels are so easily interrupted, and ds 2 is so slow that it can be outran and dodged. The change to fitg really did ruin build diversity which makes our class even more predictable. How when you enter ds it’s even more of a call for enemies to burn you down because you can’t defend yourself and your life blasts hurt. For far two long we have suffered from being overly vulnerable to cc which effectively ruins our class mechanic and merely delta the inevitable – our quick death.

Even baby steps is a stretch if they cant even give us a few combo finishers.

Should either pulse stability or have a stunbreak in addition to its current effect. Another option is to make it an adept trait or a minor trait.

Yeah ITS A STUNBREAKER NOW! Thanks all, seems like we have another proof (besides revenant) the devs read our forum.

WOAH! They really DO read the necromancer forums! :o

TheLastNobody.8319:

Skoigoth.9238:

Bhawb.7408:

DS enter/exit doesn’t interrupt res/stomping I thought

I´m pretty sure it does.

Since lacking group utility/support is one of our biggest weaknesses at the moment, why not make it a “shout”-type of effect?

e.g.

• 3 stacks of stability for 7 seconds
• 5 targets
• radius 600

I’ll try and use anet logic to say why that won’t happen.

Anet Logic: Necromancers are supposed to be a selfish class, therefore, no.

Before gw2, there was gw1 which had different anet logic. This meant that necros could provide team support just with a more offensive/sacrificial based role.