Guild Wars 2

In pvp how can they make necro death shroud equal to repear shroud in terms of its strength? My ideas

DS 1 No change. It is fine how it is
Ds 2 Needs to be a ground targeted skill with a blast finish at the end of it similrmto repear shroud 2
Ds 3 No change
Ds 4 Now grants 3 stacks of stability for 5 seconds when this skill is started
Ds 5 Now gives off 6 stacks of poison, 2 per pulse, in addition to the torment stacks

thoughts and ideas?

currently base necro sucks because repear shroud is so much stronger than regular necro shroud. These changes should help with this

They need to implement something for sure.

The autoatack needs to have a higher firerate. It was shut down since launch and is redundant after hot.

Ofc other abilities need to compete against a leap and stability, but theres no point in being ranged otherwise.

Topic made with good intentions for sure but sadly its a waste of time. If you’ve been following Anet’s practices you will know that they have no intention of making DS as good as RS. Doing that would make RS not an elite. Doing that actually would make RS less appealing to use because then there is one less slot you have to use if you want to be more effective

When they announced the Elite lines i initially thought that there was going to be an elite slot where everyone will have to pick an elite line in addition to the 3 cores. So in future they would release more Elite lines and then we would get to swap them out, since each would change the class in some way fundamentally. why did i give so much money to completely illogical designers.

I pre-purchased HoT and still haven’t played it because my main class makes no sense.

O btw you should know that the studio actually doesnt know which direction they want to take the classes. The changes they make arent part of some master plan that was created when the game was released, not even when HoT was planned. For most changes they don’t know what they are until about a week or so before they release it.

Ragion.2831:

If you’ve been following Anet’s practices you will know that they have no intention of making DS as good as RS. Doing that would make RS not an elite.

You’re misunderstanding something here.
“Elite” is just the name. It’s not supposed to be better, but an alternative.
And in case you didn’t see the last stream, they are actually going to buff Death Shroud.

Ragion.2831:

When they announced the Elite lines i initially thought that there was going to be an elite slot where everyone will have to pick an elite line in addition to the 3 cores. So in future they would release more Elite lines and then we would get to swap them out, since each would change the class in some way fundamentally. why did i give so much money to completely illogical designers.

Illogical design?

First of all, they made it very clear from the moment they announced the expansion that the new specs wouldn’t be a 4th spec to have in addition to the 3 cores.
Secondly, in a game where buying the expansion is optional and where HoT plus non-HoT players would mix in pvp, why would they allow one part of the player base to have this huge advantage over those who didn’t purchase the expansion? That would be the definition of pay to win.

Rickster.8752:

Ds 4 Now grants 3 stacks of stability for 5 seconds when this skill is started
Ds 5 Now gives off 6 stacks of poison, 2 per pulse, in addition to the torment stacks

I’d rather have that stability on DS 5.
RS doesn’t only come with much longer and pulsing stability, but the really good thing about it is that you’re free to do other stuff, like stomping, rezzing or casting other skills.
If you put stability on DS 4 you’re basically blocking the entire stability uptime with the channeling of Life Transfer.
Tainted Shackles, on the other hand, has a short cast time so a 3x 5 sec stability would actually be usable in more ways, including an uninterruped DS 4.

Honestly the shroud is a mechanic that was never fully fleshed out or developed.

In the betas before launch it was originally something you built up to be used as a mechanic that kept you going for a limited time when you were put into the downed state.
That proved to be impossible to balance so they hastily moved it to something you could activate at any time while up then have done nothing but nerf it overall since.

If they really wanted it to be a balanced mechanic and had the time to they would redesign it from the ground up as a proper resource that could be used in a wide variety of ways.

Sadly while they likely want it to be balanced they are unwilling to take the time to redesign it completely.

DS1 must have faster cast and some sort of small aoe/multi target. Maybe bounce to 2 additional targets?!
DS 2 instead of projectile that eventually hit and teleport us to the target, make the necro travel to the target(like projectile) and evade all attacks during the travel. The skill will be the same, but we will get evade on top of it. If it doesn’t hit, teleport back to the starting point.
DS 3 is fine as it is, maybe comparing it to RS, lower the CD a little, 18s?
DS 4 Add some stability.
DS 5 Targets take more damage(20%) while bound to you(during the 4 sec. animation). Alternatively, 1sec. cripple pulse per sec for the duration of 4sec. When finish if not evaded or out of range, not only immobilize but 1/2 sec daze all affected targets.

What i hate is that they make shroud traits same for both DS and RS (like dhuumfire), while balancing them on only one of them (usualy based on RS since its performing stronger). So first they should make traits with double effects.
I really think the function of DS is near perfect.
If anything it would be better for RS to be nerfed to DS level than other way around. And if ppl want to have more stability (like RS have now), it would be more apropriate to create trait for it instead.

But if DS buff is the only option (not RS nerf) i would much rather have effect similar to distortion instead of extra stability somewhere, making shrouds even more distinctive from one another. Beside this they could pop some finisher here and there.
Also pulsing cripple on DS 5, if the enemy is linked to you, also sounds nice and general reduction to cooldowns, as mazut suggested.

Emapudapus.1307:

What i hate is that they make shroud traits same for both DS and RS (like dhuumfire), while balancing them on only one of them (usualy based on RS since its performing stronger). So first they should make traits with double effects.
I really think the function of DS is near perfect.
If anything it would be better for RS to be nerfed to DS level than other way around. And if ppl want to have more stability (like RS have now), it would be more apropriate to create trait for it instead.

But if DS buff is the only option (not RS nerf) i would much rather have effect similar to distortion instead of extra stability somewhere, making shrouds even more distinctive from one another. Beside this they could pop some finisher here and there.
Also pulsing cripple on DS 5, if the enemy is linked to you, also sounds nice and general reduction to cooldowns, as mazut suggested.

I kind of disagree. Compare both Shrouds and you will see that more or less the skills are similar. Traits can work good with both if DS skills get some changes.
That’s why I suggest DS auto attack to hit more then one foe(piercing is the worst of all possible aoe solutions, but the easiest to implement). All other skills are mirrors, more or less.
skill 2 in both is moving skills with finish if traited. RS skill is better, it can be used without target.
skill 3 is fear, where RS skill 3is obviously better.
skill 4 is aoe, where again RS skill is better in damage and utility. DS skill 4 need to be buffed. Either give it stability or increase damage and decrease cast time.
Skill 5 are not that similar, but both are snares. DS skill 5 need buff.

They need to add stability, a lil faster AA, lower cds on 4 n 5, and make powerful GM traits. Currently reaper has some nice variations, and dmg on chill us just too good to miss out on a condi pvp build. Reaper shroud also has more combos/utility going on, tho partly for being melee centric.

mazut.4296:

DS1 must have faster cast and some sort of small aoe/multi target. Maybe bounce to 2 additional targets?!
DS 2 instead of projectile that eventually hit and teleport us to the target, make the necro travel to the target(like projectile) and evade all attacks during the travel. The skill will be the same, but we will get evade on top of it. If it doesn’t hit, teleport back to the starting point.
DS 3 is fine as it is, maybe comparing it to RS, lower the CD a little, 18s?
DS 4 Add some stability.
DS 5 Targets take more damage(20%) while bound to you(during the 4 sec. animation). Alternatively, 1sec. cripple pulse per sec for the duration of 4sec. When finish if not evaded or out of range, not only immobilize but 1/2 sec daze all affected targets.

Ds4 needs a condition associated with it imo. Otherwise it will always be inferior to repears

flow.6043:

Ragion.2831:

If you’ve been following Anet’s practices you will know that they have no intention of making DS as good as RS. Doing that would make RS not an elite.

You’re misunderstanding something here.
“Elite” is just the name. It’s not supposed to be better, but an alternative.
And in case you didn’t see the last stream, they are actually going to buff Death Shroud.

Ragion.2831:

When they announced the Elite lines i initially thought that there was going to be an elite slot where everyone will have to pick an elite line in addition to the 3 cores. So in future they would release more Elite lines and then we would get to swap them out, since each would change the class in some way fundamentally. why did i give so much money to completely illogical designers.

Illogical design?

First of all, they made it very clear from the moment they announced the expansion that the new specs wouldn’t be a 4th spec to have in addition to the 3 cores.
Secondly, in a game where buying the expansion is optional and where HoT plus non-HoT players would mix in pvp, why would they allow one part of the player base to have this huge advantage over those who didn’t purchase the expansion? That would be the definition of pay to win.

when Anet creates a skill there are two ways they communicate it to players. The first way is the specs of it, what its about, damage and purpose. The second is its intended place in the grand scheme of things, almost like marketing. They may say this directly or indirectly. For example, the corrupt boon change, they announced what it does, which is corrupt 3 boons every 15 seconds. Then they announced how they want the skill to help position the necro relative to other classes which is to be able to move the necro into a more anti-class class or as they put it, boon corruption.

They announced the Elite (which includes, the traits, the weapon, skills and the profession mechanic changes) by telling us what it does and they positioned it as a trait line that makes the class better than it would be without it. They did this by calling it an elite, they did this by having the professions improve fumndamentally when the line was used and also 1 or 2 other ways i hope you recognise. So considering all this, you can’t say that their intention wasnt for RS to be better than DS. They will “buff” DS all they want but im very certain that they will not make it as good as RS just watch. If they do I will personally make a topic and say I was wrong.

As for their trait structure, having 2 cores and an elite slot that can be swapped for a core. I got my impression way back before they specified because i felt that anything else would just axe so many builds and that wouldn’t really be an upgrade. I see what they did now as illogical because in future how are they going to expand on the elite lines idea? how are they going to expand on traits lines in general. Are they not going to design more elite lines? and if they do are we going to be using multiple elite lines? really? They have the set up to allow for more trait lines, everything they’ve done points towards that but this restriction of just 2 cores and an Elite that can be swapped for a core only suggests that elites are supposed to be as good cores but thats not what they did now is it?

It would have been a lot better to have 3 cores so people keep their normal builds then an Elite slot only for elite lines which would be a true upgrade to the class not an alternative build. Then in future they can design class changing elite lines which people can swap out

While reaper is all about getting on top of and staying on your opponent, I feel Deathshroud should be more about zoning and controlling the space between you and your opponent with a combination of fears, pulls, and immobilizes.

DS1 could be fired at twice the speed for half the damage.

DS2 either should be a teleport, or even better I feel, a pull to keep in line with the core necromancer theme.

DS3 really I think is fine.

DS 4 I think could stand to be an AoE pull if you get the full channel off.

DS5, I think is fine.

TheLastNobody.8319:

While reaper is all about getting on top of and staying on your opponent, I feel Deathshroud should be more about zoning and controlling the space between you and your opponent with a combination of fears, pulls, and immobilizes.

DS1 could be fired at twice the speed for half the damage.

DS2 either should be a teleport, or even better I feel, a pull to keep in line with the core necromancer theme.

DS3 really I think is fine.

DS 4 I think could stand to be an AoE pull if you get the full channel off.

DS5, I think is fine.

2 different playstyles, yea i thought that would have been a good idea but that would make elites not as necessary for the class to be better. You would be as effective without using the elite. Anet can’t have that now can they. Thats why i don’t have my hopes up for this DS buff

DS skills have too much long cooldowns against RS skills and Life blast has too much long cast time.

DS is good but not as good as RS. Improving Dark Path’s completion odds for targets not countering it is enough for me. It is still slow for long distances and fails due to pathing too much.

I would like to see range increase to 1500 and reliability increase as well but would trade bleeds and accept a delay in chill application to make completion time the same regardless of distance.

Suggestions :

Change Life Blast to have the same speed and condition transfer ability as its underwater variant, Plague Blast. Also, make the piercing/vulnerability from Unyielding blast part of its base abilities.

Change Dark Path to a teleport or leap similar to Infiltrator’s Arrow or Jump Shot, and enemies near where you land/teleport are chilled and blinded.

Doom…Hmm. Sadly, the only ideas I have for this one are to either make it the underwater variant’s Wave of terror or make it like Infusing Terror… :/

Life Transfer siphons boons from enemies and conditions from allies per pulse.

Tainted Shackles gives stability for each foe bound at the skill’s use.

I don’t believe they will change much, for the same reason DH virtues are a lot more useful than Guardian core (you literally have no reason to activate them if not traited), even if they have cast time.

Nilkemia.8507:

Suggestions :

Change Life Blast to have the same speed and condition transfer ability as its underwater variant, Plague Blast. Also, make the piercing/vulnerability from Unyielding blast part of its base abilities.

Change Dark Path to a teleport or leap similar to Infiltrator’s Arrow or Jump Shot, and enemies near where you land/teleport are chilled and blinded.

Doom…Hmm. Sadly, the only ideas I have for this one are to either make it the underwater variant’s Wave of terror or make it like Infusing Terror… :/

Life Transfer siphons boons from enemies and conditions from allies per pulse.

Tainted Shackles gives stability for each foe bound at the skill’s use.

Good suggestions