Guild Wars 2

hello,

the only thing, that i would change is gravedigger spam below 50% of enemies life, becouse its boring in pve and to effective against downstates in pvp

Kulvar.1239:

@Nyth
Unfortunately, I wasn’t there during BWE1, I missed all but one beta weekend.
So, I wasn’t able to test the not spammable version of Gravedigger.

then maybe you shouldn’t start an unnecessary nerf thread if you are ignorant to the various reaper trait and skill iterations.

Spamming gravedigger on anything but a NPC vet or lower is like killing yourself. It generates no life force and has easy counterplay. A couple of them in a row is all I’d think of risking unless I knew I was totally safe to dps. I do not want to get into the habit of jamming number 2 whenever I can. My priority with greatsword after coming out of DS is rebuilding LF and reapplying conditions.

livlaender.8790:

hello,

the only thing, that i would change is gravedigger spam below 50% of enemies life, becouse its boring in pve and to effective against downstates in pvp

I don’t see how spamming 2 is more boring in PvE than the current meta which is spamming 1. Oh wait, actually the current necro meta is to reroll as an elementalist, never mind.

For PvP, gravedigger is far from OP, even on downstates. In the current “rez meta”, your enemy will be up before your gravedigger even hits. You need more frontloaded damage like hundred blades or even necro dagger for that matter.

Kulvar.1239:

Hi!

I’m here to talk about how to nerf Reaper.
As I do not know how it’ll be at the launch of Heart of Thorns, the beta make me feeling like it’s way too powerful O_O
And I’m playing an Asura Necromancer, I’ll welcome the Reaper as soon as it’s available.

In your opinion, if they want to reduce Reaper power, how should they do it?

As for my opinion on the topic, only two components actually make me think the Reaper is “too op”.

Major Master Trait: Decimate Defenses
Increase Critical Chance by 1% per stack of Vulnerability (downed from 2%)

Greatsword #2: Gravedigger
Recharge reduced by 50% against a downed or low health foe (downed from 100%)

No you dont play a necro, a real necro wouldnt do this thread.

Asking a nerf on something not even out … Human’s stupidity scare me a lil more everyday :/

Won’t waste time trying explain why and what about our class if you don’t either take time learning others profession before rush in our community and write such salty things.

Woah some of you guys are a bit over the line here. Sure the guy was a bit knee jerky but it doesn’t prompt this kind of response. There is no need to bloody insult the guy just because of this.

As to the topic at hand, I mostly agree with the posters who brought up blighter’s boon. If Reapers are ever found to be op then that is the first thing I would take a look at.

Greatsword in PvP will almost certainly be a niche weapon because is really really slow which is why the gravedigger nerf is not that great. Is mediocre/bad in the first place. PvE wise we found out in BWE that even a 90% cd reduction felt pretty bad but since you didn’t participate in it, is not surprising you felt is really strong, 100% cd reduction on a really high damage skill does look scary but is actually not as overwhelming as you think.

DD nerf is poor mainly because all it does in PvE is forces more berserker armor pieces. Reapers now can afford to take some valk pieces in PvE because we have so much crit, but if you nerf DD then all it does in PvE is that it forces all necros to Berserker only and lose vit to maintain the same outcome. I doubt people complain how necro survivability is too much in PvE.

PvP wise offense was never really the main thing people complained about reapers, it has always been the sustain granted via blighter’s boon and that weird kitten life force gen bug in certain maps.

So to the OP, the next time you think something is overpowered, give it a bit more thought and explain the reasoning behind your process eh?

While the reaper is awesome to play it’s nowhere near top tier atm. Chrono’s and Heralds are miles ahead.

Ithir Darkleaf.7923:

I would balance Reaper by bringing the other elite specs up to its level. Reaper is the benchmark of how an elite spec should be done. Period.

yeah god forbid the elite spec is actually worth using!

stupid topic.

Kulvar.1239:

Hi!

In your opinion, if they want to reduce Reaper power, how should they do it?

Hi. Obvious answer is to make the scythe foam and let the whirl finishers shoot out suctiony foam projectiles. That would be a proper nerfing.

Who knows what sort of buffs will other classes get so i’d say its too early to talk about nerfs although i wouldn’t be surprised if some do happen.

Gravedigger nerf would probably trash GS usefulness as the whole weapon is based around gravedigger spam. Beside big numbers dont mean a thing if one blind/daze/ what ever can trash it especially with that long cast time (easy to dodge).

Yeah its shame that OP didnt get to taste first form of reaper and GS as it was quite crappy and ever since then they buffed up dmg and other stuff.

Reaper doesn’t needs nerfs. Au contraire we need dps buffs to have a spot in raids.

vicious.5683:

Reaper doesn’t needs nerfs. Au contraire we need dps buffs to have a spot in raids.

Aren’t they taken anyway simply for boon removal? I don’t think chronomncer boon rip would be enough.

nearlight.3064:

vicious.5683:

Reaper doesn’t needs nerfs. Au contraire we need dps buffs to have a spot in raids.

Aren’t they taken anyway simply for boon removal? I don’t think chronomncer boon rip would be enough.

It is clear necro has one of the best boon rip of all professions. However, because they designed raids so that you don’t need a specific class, the amount of boon rip “necessary” cannot be too high. One thing they can do is having a lot of boons which are “preferably” removed, in which case necro would be fine, but other classes can still work.

Silverkey.2078:

nearlight.3064:

Aren’t they taken anyway simply for boon removal? I don’t think chronomncer boon rip would be enough.

It is clear necro has one of the best boon rip of all professions. However, because they designed raids so that you don’t need a specific class, the amount of boon rip “necessary” cannot be too high. One thing they can do is having a lot of boons which are “preferably” removed, in which case necro would be fine, but other classes can still work.

With Mesmers/Chronos being catapulted into god tier with the upcoming changes to companions (it basically eliminates the biggest weakness the class currently has in PvE), I’m afraid our boon removal capabilities will become even more irrelevant to the meta sadly =/

For PvP purposes, the only big improvement of Reaper over base necro is the sustain it has through Blighter’s Boon for its sustain build. The condi and power DPS builds are good, but they are countered much more easily and are basically chronomancer food with their super high burst right now.

If they nerf Blighter’s Boon, we might as well play base celestial signet since it is a stronger 1 v 1er than reaper since it has better pressure, more transfers, and is harder to kite.

I wouldn’t care too much if they nerf the damage on gravedigger since I am not using GS in PvP due to how easily counterable it is by any player worth their salt, but it is our only distinguishing feature for PvE that could make us desirable in raids. This is why that I hope any nerfs to the skill’s damage will be split between the two game modes.

“For PvP purposes, the only big improvement of Reaper over base necro is the sustain it has through Blighter’s Boon for its sustain build.”

This has very little to no effect in 1v1 situations tho, and in those base Necro has far better sustain.

Ravezaar.4951:

“For PvP purposes, the only big improvement of Reaper over base necro is the sustain it has through Blighter’s Boon for its sustain build.”

This has very little to no effect in 1v1 situations tho, and in those base Necro has far better sustain.

Indeed, I was taking about teamfight situations where teammates can spam boons on you.

Reaper finally puts the class in a good place, and you’re already trying to take this away from people? The specializations aren’t even out yet, the fact that this is even a topic is absurd. We all know which classes actually need to be nerfed, and necromancer is sitting at the bottom of that list. We all know that Ele/Guard/Mesmer/Warrior are going to be buffed infinitely, while reaper will probably be nerfed to oblivion (source: the past few years) can you just let us enjoy the time period where Reaper is actually a great specialization? As much as it pains me to say it, what’s probably going to happen is this good spot Reaper is at right now will soon be a memory. The general pattern is that necromancer’s point out flaws in the class, wait for a solution to that, and then an entirely different aspect of necro gets nerfed.

Ravezaar.4951:

“For PvP purposes, the only big improvement of Reaper over base necro is the sustain it has through Blighter’s Boon for its sustain build.”

This has very little to no effect in 1v1 situations tho, and in those base Necro has far better sustain.

Actually, if you run spite traits it will have a very significant effect on you in 1v1s, and even without that, your comparison is pointless considering necromancer (and reaper) is conditionally the strongest 1v1 build in the game, conditional on the variable that is the amount of life force you have before engaging in that 1v1.

Meanwhile you’re right about blighters boon in teamfights, it makes reaper work synergistically with most of the major teamfight builds on other classes.

In sPvP tho compared to WvW you rarely have a good amount of Life Force enetering a fight… rarely. And yes Spite traitline with its Might-Stacking helps but its NOTHING compare from the Boons u get from being near classes like Guards,Rev,Ele so its hard to say its OP trait the Blighters Boon cause its only very strong when u get Boons from other sources then your own.

As I said 12stax Poison on Soul Spiral is abit to OP, but imho Blighters Boon isnt… it just increases highly in strenght when u get Boons from allies.

Andlat Helsonr.1284:

Ravezaar.4951:

“For PvP purposes, the only big improvement of Reaper over base necro is the sustain it has through Blighter’s Boon for its sustain build.”

This has very little to no effect in 1v1 situations tho, and in those base Necro has far better sustain.

Indeed, I was taking about teamfight situations where teammates can spam boons on you.

yes in Team fights and lets say fighting on Point its very strong borderline OP… but howto nerf something that isnt very strong in 1v1 ? that balance is hard to get.

Reaper doesn’t need a nerf.

Necro finally gets something half decent and he’s screaming nerf…. I bet he mains ele or warrior too….

Reapers are in a phenomenal spot right now, but the fact is – we don’t know how Reapers would perform once HoT is live. If it turned out that Reaper is seen as overpowered by the majority of players, then Reapers would receive a nerf (isn’t that how it is?). With due respect, the majority of posters here concurred that the Reaper Elite Specialization shouldn’t be brought down (i.e. nerfed), instead the other Elite Specializations should be buffed. I disagree with this notion, because the chance of the neglected Elite Specializations being brought up to the gold standard of the Reaper is quite low. And, it would probably never happen. With that said, I do agree with OP that Reaper needs a slight nerf.

Kulvar.1239:

Major Master Trait: Decimate Defenses
Increase Critical Chance by 1% per stack of Vulnerability (downed from 2%)

2% critical chance per stack of Vulnerability is actually too much for a master-tier trait. When coupled with Death Perception, it gives Reapers up to 100% critical chance with NO precision gears. Reapers have so many methods to apply Vulnerability – 100% critical hit chance is pretty much a given. When geared in full Valkyrie body armors and Cavalier trinkets, Reapers gained “zerker status” at no cost to survivability.

Many posters already pointed out that Blighter’s Boon is a bit too strong, and I agree with them. You could literally go into Reaper Shroud with 10% health and come out of it with 100% health. When it comes to short-lived boon generation, Reaper is the best at it. The amount of Might stacks that a Reaper can generate by itself is insane (gaining boon above the threshold stack will still trigger Blighter’s Boon). This slight edge that the Reaper has is further strengthen by Fried Golden Dumpling. As many of you are aware, Fried Golden Dumpling has no internal cooldown. In other words, the Might proc can trigger more than once if you’re hitting more than one target. With everything taken into account, I feel like the healing output from Blighter’s Boon should be reduced by 33%, from a base healing of 133 down to 88 per boon. And, I feel this subtle nerf is justified if it means Blighter’s Boon won’t receive an internal cooldown as a nerf in the future.

As it is now, we have two choices – a subtle nerf now or a BIG hammer nerf in the future. Pick your poison.

The food thing with blighters boon isnt something id worry about due to class balancing not being focused around wvw(food throws a kink in things for every class). As for it making the reaper omg so op sustain, it really isnt unless your ina 1v1 against another class with no burst. The reason being that as of right now in pvp the best way to kill a necro is to just slowly dps him out of ds/wait for him to drop ds and then cc+burst him while its on cd. People might not realize but…Blighter’s Boon does nothing to change this and even if u manage to survive their burst and enter shroud your teammates would literally have to spam all the boons they could ever give out to get ur hp healed enough to matter unless the team doesnt just dps pressure you right back out of shroud.

In short, coordinated burst still kills a reaper just as efficiently as a normal necro as we are still just as vulnerable to cc out of shroud(elite shout gives some stab but is also easy to counter…) and since rs is melee, if they see you go into it and are smart they will just focus you with soft cc(hard cc if infusing terror isnt on) and wait for your lf to drop then burst you.

Blighters boon would be most effective in bunker builds as they are less vulnerable to getting insta gibbed, but as to all the pwr reaper runnign aorund in maruader, yea…same old same old here.
Just my opinion

Papish.5806:

Blighters boon would be most effective in bunker builds as they are less vulnerable to getting insta gibbed, but as to all the pwr reaper runnign aorund in maruader, yea…same old same old here.
Just my opinion

Sentinel Reaper in sPvP is just silly. Against glassy builds, no dodge is needed.

I’m making a Reaper myself – in full Sentinel body armor and Soldier trinkets with Relentless Pursuit, Superior Rune of Hoelbrak, Lemongrass food, and Chilling Force. CC isn’t really an issue, and I eat glass builds for breakfast.

In PvE, Reapers don’t usually have to worry about being bursted out of Reaper Shroud (they also get life force from slain mobs), so there’s that.

Halcyon.5340:

Many posters already pointed out that Blighter’s Boon is a bit too strong, and I agree with them. You could literally go into Reaper Shroud with 10% health and come out of it with 100% health. When it comes to short-lived boon generation, Reaper is the best at it. The amount of Might stacks that a Reaper can generate by itself is insane (gaining boon above the threshold stack will still trigger Blighter’s Boon). This slight edge that the Reaper has is further strengthen by Fried Golden Dumpling. As many of you are aware, Fried Golden Dumpling has no internal cooldown. In other words, the Might proc can trigger more than once if you’re hitting more than one target. With everything taken into account, I feel like the healing output from Blighter’s Boon should be reduced by 33%, from a base healing of 133 down to 88 per boon. And, I feel this subtle nerf is justified if it means Blighter’s Boon won’t receive an internal cooldown as a nerf in the future.

As it is now, we have two choices – a subtle nerf now or a BIG hammer nerf in the future. Pick your poison.

Disagree, Blighter’s Boon simply gave necros what they rightfully deserve…heals within shroud. It made no sense with the previous design where necros could not receive heals while in shroud. This made things difficult for necros when waters being blasted and if you missed it, you don’t get healed. Blighter’s Boon simply fixed that badly designed aspect of necro shrouds so we could receive heals.

Receiving heals while getting boons really work best when you’re in a team situation in a group with guardians. It’s by no means overpowered when you’re solo and attempting to stack boons to heal yourself. Because when being pressed you’re still going to get knocked out of Reaper Shroud faster than you can stack boons. I’ve tried, the heals are amazing when in guardian groups, but they are small incremental heals. Thieves, mesmers, and even necro well bombs can burst you out of reaper shroud faster than you can get healed via Blighter’s Boon.

It’s worth noting also that you can’t camp Reaper Shroud forever, nor is it efficient to do so. Reason being that Reaper Shroud lack condi transfer/removal. You lose access to your utilities & elites. It also isn’t our highest dps form (that belongs to dagger auto and GS). So the idea that Reapers are going to be overpowered by staying in Reaper Shroud forever and getting healed is inaccurate. It sounds good on paper, but it does not work in reality, in real-time gameplay. This is the difference between theorycrafting vs actual gameplay.

I tried Blighter’s Boon with Soldier’s gear in WvW. I melted inside well bombs just the same, this is while playing with 40+ players and boons were flying everywhere. Reapers are still very susceptible to burst bombs, and without blocks and invulns that other classes have access to, and without being able to receive big water blast heals, you aren’t going to be in a better position than other frontline melees in large WvW combat. Blighter’s Boon give you good sustain, but it’s by no means big burst heals that sometimes you need in order to survive being bursted on.

So again, due to the fact that other classes get healed in their alternate forms just fine, Blighter’s Boon simply gave us the option (and forces us to trait it) to receive the same. If you look at it from this angle, you’ll realize Blighter’s Boon isn’t overpowered.

Halcyon.5340:

With that said, I do agree with OP that Reaper needs a slight nerf.

And you base that on 3 beta weekend events ?
Sorry but we’re going to have to see how this plays out first.
A lot of the reaper hype is due to the stark contrast to vanilla necromancer.

Halcyon.5340:

Kulvar.1239:

Major Master Trait: Decimate Defenses
Increase Critical Chance by 1% per stack of Vulnerability (downed from 2%)

2% critical chance per stack of Vulnerability is actually too much for a master-tier trait. When coupled with Death Perception, it gives Reapers up to 100% critical chance with NO precision gears. Reapers have so many methods to apply Vulnerability – 100% critical hit chance is pretty much a given. When geared in full Valkyrie body armors and Cavalier trinkets, Reapers gained “zerker status” at no cost to survivability.

Is the trait strong? yes

But you’re acting like we’re the only class to have these kind of mechanics.
Other classes tend to have a lot of damage multipliers that we lack. Those damage multipliers also make their gear stronger than it really is.

If some other class has say +20% extra damage that a necro doesn’t have. It means they can take 2-4 pieces of gear and change that to a survivability set and still be equal with a necromancer.

You can’t just take these talents in a void. That’s not how balancing works. You can’t say THIS TALENT IS TOO STRONG, without seeing the bigger picture.
Necro’s could have 100% extra crit and +50% damage for free; as long as our base damage isn’t high enough to be competetive that is all irrelevant, whether you have those benefits or not.

Halcyon.5340:

As it is now, we have two choices – a subtle nerf now or a BIG hammer nerf in the future. Pick your poison.

How about an effective nerf to the classes that deserve it once we know the state of the game?
How about we NOT nerf stuff before it’s even been released. The reaper has seen what, 8 days of gameplay?
The moment you nerf reapers and it turns out we’re actually still not that good; it’ll be an impossible feat to get necromancers buffed again.

IF ANYTHING, the last 3 years of GW2 has proven how obstinate the GW2 development team can be when it comes to class balance.
So let’s PLEASE not nerf stuff before it’s even out.

I just read OP and 2-3 other posts.
You must be kiddin’ me. Reaper OP?
in PvP it can be kite and never land 1 hit, in PvE not even close to the best DPS and no group utility, in WvW well I didn’t look at it tbh.
People only complain because it bring necro to the same place to other classes and after a couple of weeks you’ll understand that necro is still on the bottom tier of the game in most of the situations.

in BWE reaper feel strong because of all the flaws in the core spec. Exactly the opposite of why tempest and DH feel so weak. But it is just a l2p situation. Don’t ask for something as stupid as a nerf for a spec that give nothing that you can’t find in any other class of the game.

Nyth.3492:

And you base that on 3 beta weekend events ?
Sorry but we’re going to have to see how this plays out first.
A lot of the reaper hype is due to the stark contrast to vanilla necromancer.

One beta weekend, and I’m keen enough to know that Sentinel Reaper is capable of effectively contesting a point against a Cele-Elementalist in sPvP. Anyone worth his own salt will know what I mean.

Nyth.3492:

You can’t just take these talents in a void. That’s not how balancing works. You can’t say THIS TALENT IS TOO STRONG, without seeing the bigger picture.
Necro’s could have 100% extra crit and +50% damage for free; as long as our base damage isn’t high enough to be competetive that is all irrelevant, whether you have those benefits or not.

Halcyon.5340:

As it is now, we have two choices – a subtle nerf now or a BIG hammer nerf in the future. Pick your poison.

I can, and I will voice my concern when I feel an aspect of a class is too strong (isn’t that the point of the beta weekends?). I will even take kittens for it. Decimate Defense needs to be moved up into grandmaster-tier or see its effects reduced by half. +50% critical hit chance while OUTSIDE and inside Reaper Shroud is too strong. Death Perception only gives +50% critical hit chance while IN Reaper Shroud, AND it is a Grandmaster trait. Also, please don’t tell me that stacking Vulnerability on a Necro is difficult. It’s not.

Necromancers may not have access to some +10% damage modifiers that other classes have access to, but they have Might generation. I would gladly take 25 stacks of Might over a missing 15% damage modifier. Might generation also synergizes very well with Blighter’s Boon.

All and all, Reapers aren’t meant to be played glassy. They shine when you build like a bruiser and trait into Blighter’s Boon. With 30k health, 2% life force per second suddenly turns into 500 effective health per second.

Maybe the life force percentage from Blighter’s Boon may also warrant a 25% nerf, from 1% down to 3/4 life force per boon.
(Just kidding)

I will be the first one to admit that I haven’t played enough Reaper matches in PvP to know what I am talking about, mostly because I was still grinding for glorious gear sets at the time and beta characters didn’t provide track progress.

I think anybody who played the beta weekends will see Reapers are pretty good in PvP, overpowered? Maybe, I have seen both sides. Where reapers gets kited to death and where reapers down 1 in a 1v2.

However honestly my biggest concern with any reaper nerf really is that any PvP nerfs will transfer over to PvE. That is the one state where necro as a class greatly suffers and I really really don’t want to see the class go down the gutter again because of PvP nerfs when we are getting bit of hope with Reaper spec.

So really I am here mostly saying keep PvP and PvE separate o.O

Also I think in regards to the comment against vs cele eles. I honestly believe Reaper as a class should be the best at 1v1s due to lack of mobility. If I can’t catch people easily then I better win fights when they do get cornered. Although really I am also sure the ele might have played poorly, Reaper doesn’t shine nearly enough in a 1v1 compared to a teamfight.

Answer to the opening post : No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

The only thing even close to overpowered about reaper is the fast might ramp up time, which could easily be solved by splitting the might traits into other traitlines so we wouldn’t need spite/soulreaping/reaper in every single pvp build we make.

And like I’ve said before, reaper (and base necormancer) is conditionally the strongest 1v1 class, provided that you engage that 1v1 with full or mostly full life force, a condition that is dependent on you and your team being able to kill everyone else in an opening teamfight first, which can be a tall order against good teams since you don’t start with life force. Blighter’s boon and the right comp works around that weakness.

Best 1v1….u must be joking. Play all new spec during beta. Best new 1v1 spec will be choro, engi and revent. Reaper is on the same level as warrior and ranget new spec. Even the improvment reaper will still consider average. People just want nerco to remain low tier. Also king of 1V1 will still bt d/d ele. So what if a.reaper can genrate so many might when the base damage sucks

princode.2750:

Best 1v1….u must be joking. Play all new spec during beta. Best new 1v1 spec will be choro, engi and revent. Reaper is on the same level as warrior and ranget new spec. Even the improvment reaper will still consider average. People just want nerco to remain low tier. Also king of 1V1 will still bt d/d ele. So what if a.reaper can genrate so many might when the base damage sucks

If I enter a fight with 45K HP (or higher), (and actually good deathshroud skills with reaper) I have a significant advantage over the D/P thief with 11K HP. Have you not forgotten that condi/celestial/marauder necromancer has the most favorable matchup against D/D elementalist (usually considered to be the best 1v1 class) out of anything in the game? Part of this is because we have high debuff pressure and chill to kitten up water attune CDs, and part of it is because we can potentially enter the fight with much higher health than they have.

And yes, D/P thief could eventually win by resetting the fight repeatedly, but only if he was good enough to never make a single mistake, and by that point, it’d be worthless since a plus from either side should have entered the fight before it’d take that long.

You have to think of all of the variables in a 1v1, and a necromancer has the potential to be either the best or the worst 1v1er based on how much life force it has when that 1v1 starts. Watch any top tier pvper stream, they tend to avoid (unless absolutely necessary) 1v1ing necromancers after the first minute of the game unless they know they have a conditional advantage over the necro.

nearlight.3064:

The only thing even close to overpowered about reaper is the fast might ramp up time, which could easily be solved by splitting the might traits into other traitlines so we wouldn’t need spite/soulreaping/reaper in every single pvp build we make.

And like I’ve said before, reaper (and base necormancer) is conditionally the strongest 1v1 class, provided that you engage that 1v1 with full or mostly full life force, a condition that is dependent on you and your team being able to kill everyone else in an opening teamfight first, which can be a tall order against good teams since you don’t start with life force. Blighter’s boon and the right comp works around that weakness.

My WvW roaming partner re-rolled into a Herald. Those boons from her eventually bring my life force to 100% while outside of combat. It feels so good to start a fight with 62k health and insane life force regeneration with Blighter’s Boon

After 3y ppl still compare LF-bar to a second health bar when its actually a mechanic to repalce thing like: Block,Immunity,Reflect aso…

wierd that no1 ever says “Endure Pain” is like a second health bar, yet it can be specced to pop twice for a Warrior and has the potential to soak up much much more dmg…

Ravezaar.4951:

After 3y ppl still compare LF-bar to a second health bar when its actually a mechanic to repalce thing like: Block,Immunity,Reflect aso…

wierd that no1 ever says “Endure Pain” is like a second health bar, yet it can be specced to pop twice for a Warrior and has the potential to soak up much much more dmg…

Don’t forget permablind and things like that

Reaper doesn’t need an ele or PS Warr to stack might, it doesn’t need a banner for crit chance, it doesn’t a guardian to survive.

@Kulvar.1239 we have played alone pretty long anyways with our necros and weren’t welcome in PVE for dungeons and stuff. so what’s your point? are you scared that your favorite class (another one maybe) is gonna be non meta?

Halcyon.5340:

Nyth.3492:

And you base that on 3 beta weekend events ?
Sorry but we’re going to have to see how this plays out first.
A lot of the reaper hype is due to the stark contrast to vanilla necromancer.

One beta weekend, and I’m keen enough to know that Sentinel Reaper is capable of effectively contesting a point against a Cele-Elementalist in sPvP. Anyone worth his own salt will know what I mean.

Funny you say that. Because I was watching Noscoc and Phantaram duel it out during BWE3 and basically with Tempest Phantaram lost most duels from Noscoc as reaper, but with traditional cele d/d spec Phantaram won just about every duel.

Thing is with reaper: You lose a TON of boon hate and condi transfer.
You have to give up the curses traitline, which includes: Plague sending; path of corruption and perma weakness.

I’m psyched for reaper and I think we’ll see it a lot in PvP with success. But I wouldn’t even be surprised if at the top tier of things some necro’s will go back to the old Spite/Curses/Soul Reaping setup, because it gives them everything they need.

Halcyon.5340:

Nyth.3492:

You can’t just take these talents in a void. That’s not how balancing works. You can’t say THIS TALENT IS TOO STRONG, without seeing the bigger picture.
Necro’s could have 100% extra crit and +50% damage for free; as long as our base damage isn’t high enough to be competetive that is all irrelevant, whether you have those benefits or not.

Halcyon.5340:

As it is now, we have two choices – a subtle nerf now or a BIG hammer nerf in the future. Pick your poison.

I can, and I will voice my concern when I feel an aspect of a class is too strong (isn’t that the point of the beta weekends?). I will even take kittens for it. Decimate Defense needs to be moved up into grandmaster-tier or see its effects reduced by half. +50% critical hit chance while OUTSIDE and inside Reaper Shroud is too strong. Death Perception only gives +50% critical hit chance while IN Reaper Shroud, AND it is a Grandmaster trait. Also, please don’t tell me that stacking Vulnerability on a Necro is difficult. It’s not.

Stacking vulnerability is easy as pie. But it takes a bit of time, which is what the trait is balanced around.
In PvE it means you’ll only see +50% crit chance vs anything staying up for more than say 10-15 seconds. Which means veterans and higher.
In PvP condi cleanse and the fact it takes a bit to stack this will result in you never really recieving the full benefit, unlike Death Perception which is instant full effect when you swap into shroud.

THAT itself is the balance that ANet had in mind with this trait. If they want to adjust it, fine. But claiming that it’s OP by default is, once again, looking at the trait in a vaccuum and not seeing how it’s playing out in practice.
This trait is meant to have full effect in a raid setting, without giving the reaper instant full power in shorter term fights.

Halcyon.5340:

Necromancers may not have access to some +10% damage modifiers that other classes have access to, but they have Might generation. I would gladly take 25 stacks of Might over a missing 15% damage modifier. Might generation also synergizes very well with Blighter’s Boon.

I love my self sustained 25 might stacks; it’s complete boss, especially with reaper.
But an extra 15% flat damage modifier would make us actually viable in a ton of group content where we’re currently excluded from. Especially in situations where might is being handed out like candy anyway.

Gristo.4816:

@Kulvar.1239 we have played alone pretty long anyways with our necros and weren’t welcome in PVE for dungeons and stuff. so what’s your point? are you scared that your favorite class (another one maybe) is gonna be non meta?

Why everyone think that I MUST play an other profession?
My favorite character is named Kzatt, an Asura Necromancer.
You don’t believe me? I’m on EU Server, come and check, but stop spreading this unwarranted accusation.

I have great hopes for Reaper, but I have a feeling that a big nerf will come soon.
You’re free to call it a “phobia”, but I have a lack of faith in game designers to attune classes strength sparingly.
Even with the newly created ESL Guild Wars 2 Pro League that should make balancing a great concern for Arena.net.

This topic was not intended to ask for a Reaper nerf, but to gather others soon-to-be Reapers feelings about the specialization and wonder, IF devs want to nerf Reaper, HOW they should do it to not push the Reaper in the depth of uselessness.

You’re also free to expand the topic with ideas of improvement for weak designed components as others did. It’s not because there are things that could be weakened that others can’t be enhanced.

The feedback given by Nith just above this message for example is a great insight.
If I just wanted to tell the devs what they should do and only care about my opinion, I would had send them a letter.
Gathering everyone knowledge, thoughts, feelings about the Reaper will help making a consistent and complete overview of the specialization, with all the shades different players preferences can add.

Kulvar.1239:

I have great hopes for Reaper, but I have a feeling that a big nerf will come soon.

And the reason for it is, that guys like you mean this and this are OP but they are not…
There are more things on other classes are OP and nobody complain about cuz it belongs to the classes etc bla bla…

Necro has not that much traits that make him strong like other classes… so hey! Why shouldn’t we remove this too because nobody wants to play with that weak class, so nobody cares!

Gah! Srsly?

I like pizza, so we have to make it less tasty? Because steak is much better?

Kulvar.1239:

Gristo.4816:

@Kulvar.1239 we have played alone pretty long anyways with our necros and weren’t welcome in PVE for dungeons and stuff. so what’s your point? are you scared that your favorite class (another one maybe) is gonna be non meta?

Why everyone think that I MUST play an other profession?
My favorite character is named Kzatt, an Asura Necromancer.
You don’t believe me? I’m on EU Server, come and check, but stop spreading this unwarranted accusation.

Don’t blame us for thinking that. You are making a thread with this topic, what did you expect?

please check what other classes are capable of concerning dmg and support and things that a Necro doesn’t have.

I appreciate the sentiment behind this thread and understand the reasons behind your post. It is mostly anxiety that now that we got something cool and desirable, it will get taken away from us and nerfed to the ground.

Celestial signet has been around ever since the balance patch and, for the time being, they have left it alone. So A-net clearly wants the necromancer to have cool tools. I find it fairly funny that the necromancer forums are the only ones that have this type of a thread, though. I think it is just another display of the victim complex this community has developed over the past three years :p.

Chill, boys. We are in a good spot in PvP right now, and Reaper is going to branch us out into other viable playstyles. It is such a sidegrade compared to Chrono or Herald that I can not see what the panic is all about.

Some constructive feedback:
In my opinion reaper is far from having overpowered damage. Greatsword is slow, this means that dodging will greatly reduce the DPS. On top of that if an enemy blocks or evades, then this skill goes on cooldown. If there is anything wrong then it is that the risk that this skill brings is rare in PvE and that the reward also feels not worth it.

Instead of nerfing it, it might also be possible to buff it. Make it deal 50% more damage when your life force is above 50% and make it drain 50% life force below 50% hp or 100% above 50% hp. This will solve the issue of spamming 2 all the time and will go nicely in the high risk for high reward category for both PvE and PvP.

If you really want to nerf something then a way to change this without affecting anything else is by inversing Close to death. Having 20% damage increase on targets above 50% health will both buff and nerf this attack.

Wait, wait. Some folks still belive that necro is worse then other classes right now? Less dmg? Srsly? Cele necro so weak.

Reaper has too much dmg, cause the mightstacking (ppl tend to have 25 stacks at ease).

The panic is that we want them to be viable in pve because not all of us actually enjoy pvp and getting kitten on by theives all day

Rudy.6184:

Reaper has too much dmg, cause the mightstacking (ppl tend to have 25 stacks at ease).

In PvE yes… but PvP?

Rudy.6184:

Reaper has too much dmg, cause the mightstacking (ppl tend to have 25 stacks at ease).

And engineers running around with 40+ seconds of 25 might stacks and nobody says a word.

Ilharn.6813:

Rudy.6184:

Reaper has too much dmg, cause the mightstacking (ppl tend to have 25 stacks at ease).

In PvE yes… but PvP?

Pretty sure that mightstacking is more a pvp problem. In pve with a decent group you can expect 25 might stacks on the whole group anyway.

Honestly dmg wise reapers are probably fine. I recall even some pver saying that their dps is rather medicore compared to some other professions. Though since high end pve is not really my thing i dont know how much of it is true.